99 réponses à ce sujet

[Ackillez]

Like sinosleep I also use charge as the bread and butter of a vanguard playthrough, but in certain situations- scions, praetorians, YMIR mechs and the bubble part of the suicide run comes to mind- it was really useful to have the Vindicator handy. I suppose the Viper would've done the job admirably as well, but I'll agree that putting a sniper rifle on a vanguard, optimal or not, just feels WRONG.

[Cloaking_Thane]

SmilingMirror wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

You guys are reading it wrong.

It means that the new weapon is an upgrade from the previous weapon. (even though its debateable)

How is "Upgrades the Avenger" up for debate?

Because you're reading it wrong, it means upgrade from the avenger, meaning it is 'better' than the avenger, not that the avenger gets better

Like I said this is debateable, Just like the Hand Cannon "Upgrades" the M3 Predator, but the M3 fires faster and will do more damage for the totality of the ammo.

[_Dannok1234]

SmilingMirror wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

You guys are reading it wrong.

It means that the new weapon is an upgrade from the previous weapon. (even though its debateable)

How is "Upgrades the Avenger" up for debate?

If you are sure it works like this, then it should not be all that difficult to find some evidence to support your theory. 
Until such is provided I'll remain skeptic.

[godlike13]

I was wrong.

After some pretty extensive testing on my part, i have come to the conclusion that the Eviscerator Shotgun is the superior weapon, though the Claymore's still more fun (love that BOOM!). The Claymores shot is indeed more powerful then the Eviscerator's, but the Eviscerator's is still pretty strong. So it makes up by being able to take 3 shots in about the same the i takes the Claymore to takes 2. That fact alone just really tips the power scale in the Eviscerators favor, as much as it pains me to admit.

Still i would never pick assault training or sniper training over the Claymore. Because like i said the Claymore is just more fun, and IMO its just wrong for a Vanguard to be using a sniper or a assault rifle. That just defies the purpose of a Vanguard IMO. I would pick a diffrent class then if thats the play i was looking for.

BioWare is really ruining the balance of this game with all this DLC. The Eviscerator should not be that powerful, or the Claymore should become a double barrel. Give the Vanguard a proper reason to stick solely to the shotty, handgun, and SMG besides just principle. Like they did it for infiltrators and soilders.

Modifié par godlike13, 24 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Mordigan]

godlike13 wrote...

 So it makes up by being able to take 3 shots in about the same the i takes the Claymore takes for one. That fact alone just really tips the power scale in the Eviscerators favor, as much as it pains me to admit.

I don't know what the Evi's ROF is, but I know it's not quick enough to fire off three shots in the 1.25 seconds it takes for the Claymore to reload, much less using the reload trick.

[_Dannok1234]

Oh man, Godlike13 and Mordigan back to the second page of this thread for the both of you, read my slightly long post again to see what the differences between the shotguns are and their respective ROF's and kill speed.



But in case you are too lazy, here it is once more just to make sure. It does not matter which shotgun you pick, they all do the job exceedingly well. Pick the one that has the sound/look/feel that rings your bell. The end

[Atheist Peace]

I like all the shotguns really but i find myself using the scimitar most often.

[ODST Steve]

Why do the stats say Evi has higher damage.

Modifié par ODST Steve, 24 février 2010 - 08:35 .

[_Dannok1234]

The stats don't say that Evi has higher damage. The Wiki page might, but that has more flaws then you can shake a stick at.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...
You guys are reading it wrong.

It means that the new weapon is an upgrade from the previous weapon. (even though its debateable)

It's not at all debatable. It's just a matter of really bad wording.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...
You guys are reading it wrong.

It means that the new weapon is an upgrade from the previous weapon. (even though its debateable)

It's not at all debatable. It's just a matter of really bad wording.

It's debateable that its an upgrade is what I meant, for example I think the M3 is much better than the HC, which Bioware suggests is an upgrade.

I agree its poor wording on BW part,

It should read

"This weapon is an Upgrade from X"

[godlike13]

Mordigan wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

 So it makes up by being able to take 3 shots in about the same the i takes the Claymore takes for one. That fact alone just really tips the power scale in the Eviscerators favor, as much as it pains me to admit.

I don't know what the Evi's ROF is, but I know it's not quick enough to fire off three shots in the 1.25 seconds it takes for the Claymore to reload, much less using the reload trick.

To be fair maybe not 3 in exactly 1.25 seconds but close enough to tip the damage scale in its favor. The Claymore though is defintly the best if were including the reload trick, but there's a lot of room for error when doing the Claymore trick and its kind of a pain.

Still the Claymore is way more fun to play with, even if u don't do the reaload trick.

Modifié par godlike13, 24 février 2010 - 09:37 .

[JaegerBane]

Schneidend wrote...
Personally, I'd say Vanguards should always grab the Claymore, as it really suits the "charge, charge, and charge again" style the class was meant for. Soldiers, on the other hand, should only grab the Claymore if the player is confident in their ability to reliably get in close, otherwise go Revenant. If you've managed to sneak in reliably close with the Eviscerator up until that point as a Soldier, you'll want to try the Claymore.

I don't think there's any doubt that the Claymore is a better one-shotter. The question, however, is - is it so superior to the Evis that it's worth missing out on ARs or SRs?

I would say probably not. Crippling your vanguard at range isn't really worth the slightly larger margin of error the Claymore offers.

[RamsenC]

One nice thing about the Evi is you can implement melee into your strategy in a more meaningful way. With the Claymore you really can't since you need to be reloading. If you use the reload trick on the Claymore, you will be using melee for shortening reload time more than actually hitting enemies with it. Melee attacks add up to a lot of damage and on top of that the Evi can still one shot enemies when used correctly.

Evi + Viper > Claymore

I still recommend going through the game with the Claymore at least once if you love Vanguard, just for the fun of it.

Modifié par RamsenC, 24 février 2010 - 11:03 .

[Athenau]

As promised, I timed the reload trick. Results varied but holding the mouse down I recorded 73-77 frames per shot (1.46-1.54 seconds).



I wasn't able to perform the trick without holding the mouse button down.

[the red boon]

RamsenC wrote...

Evi + Viper < Claymore + locust

Welcome to the future.

[BeresaadSoldier]

So true And despite being an Eviscerator fan, where warp explosions aren't possible Claymore kills the fastest, hands down. I've never been able to kill 4 enemies with a single charge using the Eviscerator cause the reloading screws it up (even though you can do the reload trick with it too). Claymore allows a Vanguard to avoid cover more efficiently than any other shotgun.

[Omega-202]

I still don't think the Claymore is worth sacrificing the Viper.



Inferno ammo + Viper = very dead Scions from outside of their attack range



I've done some rough comparisons between the Vindicator, Viper and Claymore versus those pesky suckers and the Viper wins hands down.



If you don't really seem to have a problem with Scions, then whatever, but I really like having a go to easy kill versus them.

[cruc1al]

Based on my experiences the Claymore sucks against any opponent that doesn't die from one shot and one or two melees max. I don't know the reload trick and if I did I wouldn't use it, anyway it just takes too long to reload to make it effective at killing tougher opponents - you lose out on the shock factor (i.e. the enemy gets to shoot you before you unload another shot). Eviscerator's three round clip, however, is enough to deal with any medium-tough opponent, and it still one-shots (+melee) stuff like collector drones.



As for Scions, all you need is charge + shotguns or heavy pistol. Just leave the scions for the last.

[BeresaadSoldier]

cruc1al wrote...
I don't know the reload trick and if I did I wouldn't use it, anyway it just takes too long to reload to make it effective at killing tougher opponents - you lose out on the shock factor (i.e. the enemy gets to shoot you before you unload another shot). Eviscerator's three round clip, however, is enough to deal with any medium-tough opponent, and it still one-shots (+melee) stuff like collector drones.

You're actually missing out on a lot of what makes the Claymore so much fun. With any other weapon it's just being able to use it at the right time. With the Claymore, because of the reload trick it turns into learning how to use it. I was a hardcore eviscerator fan before, even did my collector speed runs with it. It cannot compare to the Claymore though... And to be fair, the reload trick is what makes the Claymore worth picking on the collector ship - after all it's the Claymore or a sniper/assault rifle and if the reload trick didn't make a significant DPS difference, nobody would pick the Claymore.

[OniGanon]

the red boon wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

Evi + Viper < Claymore + locust

Welcome to the future.

Evi + Viper + Locust/Tempest > Claymore + Locust

[cruc1al]

OniGanon wrote...

the red boon wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

Evi + Viper < Claymore + locust

Welcome to the future.

Evi + Viper + Locust/Tempest > Claymore + Locust

Widow > All

Wait, wrong class, nevermind

[the red boon]

cruc1al wrote...

Based on my experiences the Claymore sucks against any opponent that doesn't die from one shot and one or two melees max. I don't know the reload trick and if I did I wouldn't use it, anyway it just takes too long to reload to make it effective at killing tougher opponents - you lose out on the shock factor (i.e. the enemy gets to shoot you before you unload another shot). Eviscerator's three round clip, however, is enough to deal with any medium-tough opponent, and it still one-shots (+melee) stuff like collector drones.

As for Scions, all you need is charge + shotguns or heavy pistol. Just leave the scions for the last.

Your problem, even if I don't use reload trick I can get into cover with any opponent shooting at me. I play insanity fyi.

[the red boon]

OniGanon wrote...

the red boon wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

Evi + Viper < Claymore + locust

Welcome to the future.

Evi + Viper + Locust/Tempest < Claymore + Locust

Sorry you had a typo.

[Urazz]

implodinggoat wrote...

I feel the same about the Claymore as I do about the Revenant. Its arguably better than a gun you can get without having to sacrifice the ability to attain another (the Eviscerator and Vindicator respectively); while the alternatives will give you a much more pronounced bonus.

If you're a Vanguard, Adept, Sentinel, or Engineer, I'd take access to assault rifles and with it my favorite gun the Vindicator Battle Rifle which is accurate enough to do double duty as a Sniper Rifle.

If you're a Soldier or an Infiltrator, I'd take the Widow because that thing is a total beast compared to the other sniper rifles.

As a soldier you pretty much have access to all the weapons already (exception being SMGs) so you basically just pick a specialty weapon.

While the Widow is the best sniper rifle overall, the Viper is a close second if I recall.  Especially for soldiers, since Adrenaline Rush works better with the Viper than it does the Widow.

And really, I think the Revenant is the best bet for the soldier.  While you will have the best burst damage as a soldier with the Widow, your overall dps in a period of time will be lower since you can only fire one shot at a time while using adrenaline rush.  There's no point in firing the Widow outside of adrenaline rush since it won't oneshot the target at that point.

With the Revenant, you basically just end up using that and the sniper rifle (preferably the viper) as your main guns for dealing with stuff.  The shotgun and pistol basically become backup weapons for you should you run out of assault rifle ammo in short or medium range (it can happen at times on Insanity).