34 réponses à ce sujet

[bluebullets]

Can a HUMAN mage marry alistair/Anora?

[Kryyptehk]

Nope

[jesuno]

Nope, you have to be a Noble

[Realmzmaster]

Ony a human noble can marry Anora. Mages are not allowed to hold titles and rule over land and subjects.

[errant_knight]

They also don't marry. While it doesn't seem to be a rule, it's a social norm.

[Maria Caliban]

I believe a mage can ask for lands and title and get Gawarn (sp?) but they can't be royalty. There's that whole 'chant of light' thing, which forbids it.

[krylo]

The Chant of Light doesn't affect the PC Mage, however, because s/he is a Grey Warden, and therefore outside the Chantry's rule.  Further, Ferelden is not a theocracy.

This is why you are able to request lands and title.

However, the nobles would never allow a mage on the throne--it's enough of a stretch for them to allow a Grey Warden on the throne. This is the reason that you can't become king/queen as a mage.

Modifié par krylo, 23 février 2010 - 12:14 .

[Maria Caliban]

The Grey Wardens are followers of the Chantry.

. The Orlesian Empire under Drakon’s command expands quickly, as does the influence of the Chantry. Perhaps most significantly, when the Tevinter Imperium is greatly weakened by the Sacking of Minrathous in 1:31 Divine, Emperor Drakon is given the opportunity to expand northward. Instead, he chooses to swing his armies west and relieve the siege of Weisshaupt in 1:33 Divine. The Grey Wardens are impressed enough to convert to the worship of the Chantry, and together the Grey Wardens and Drakon save the badly weakened nation of Anderfels from destruction, bringing it to a devout worship of the Maker that continues to this day. Throughout this entire time, the elves of the Dales remain neutral and unhelpful. When the city of Montsimmard is nearly destroyed by the darkspawn in 1:25 Divine as the elven army watched from nearby, the people of Orlais bristled against the elves

Not to mention that there are specific rules against Grey Wardens getting involved in politics or ruling lands. As the game pretty much forces you to ignore them though, it's no surprise most people don't see them as anything but guidelines.

[krylo]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Grey Wardens are followers of the Chantry.

. The Orlesian Empire under Drakon’s command expands quickly, as does the influence of the Chantry. Perhaps most significantly, when the Tevinter Imperium is greatly weakened by the Sacking of Minrathous in 1:31 Divine, Emperor Drakon is given the opportunity to expand northward. Instead, he chooses to swing his armies west and relieve the siege of Weisshaupt in 1:33 Divine. The Grey Wardens are impressed enough to convert to the worship of the Chantry, and together the Grey Wardens and Drakon save the badly weakened nation of Anderfels from destruction, bringing it to a devout worship of the Maker that continues to this day. Throughout this entire time, the elves of the Dales remain neutral and unhelpful. When the city of Montsimmard is nearly destroyed by the darkspawn in 1:25 Divine as the elven army watched from nearby, the people of Orlais bristled against the elves

Not to mention that there are specific rules against Grey Wardens getting involved in politics or ruling lands. As the game pretty much forces you to ignore them though, it's no surprise most people don't see them as anything but guidelines.

The Chantry forbids demonology.

The Grey Wardens allow it.

The Chantry forbids blood magic.

The Grey Wardens allow it--and their joining ritual most likely stems from it.

Etc. etc.

The chantry forbids the mages from holding certain powers/abilities they deem too dangerous, however, above the respect for the Chantry that the Wardens may have, comes their most important rule.  Anything to stop the blight, no matter how extreme.

Therefore, Grey Warden mages exist outside the purview of the Chant of Light's rules.

And yes, there are specific rules regarding the grey wardens not getting involved in politics, but you can break them without Templars murdering you, so they don't count.  They're also more or less treated by guidelines by the Grey Wardens themselves.

Weisshaupt, Soldier's Peak, and if you speak to Riordan about the Anderfels Wardens, their entire order.  All are clear breaks from the 'no land' rule, and the Anderfels are basically ruled by the Wardens and there's some hints that they may do so in name as well as in practice in the near future.

Modifié par krylo, 23 février 2010 - 12:51 .

[Maria Caliban]

It would be more correct to say that the PC exists outside of any sort of social rules in BioWare games.

1. The Chant of Light does not forbid demonology.
2. The Chant of Light does forbid blood magic, and the Joining is arguably blood magic, which is one of many reasons the Wardens keep it secret.
3. Yes, the Grey Wardens have forts, but they don't own land. That's the reason they were kicked from Ferelden - the land was considered the king's.

Do Grey Warden mages practise forbidden magics? Yes. So do Circle mages. What happens when the Templars catch you with blood magic in the Circle quest? They attack you.

[Reaverwind]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It would be more correct to say that the PC exists outside of any sort of social rules in BioWare games.

1. The Chant of Light does not forbid demonology.
2. The Chant of Light does forbid blood magic, and the Joining is arguably blood magic, which is one of many reasons the Wardens keep it secret.
3. Yes, the Grey Wardens have forts, but they don't own land. That's the reason they were kicked from Ferelden - the land was considered the king's.

Do Grey Warden mages practise forbidden magics? Yes. So do Circle mages. What happens when the Templars catch you with blood magic in the Circle quest? They attack you.

On point 1 - Really? I gathered that the Chantry would come down hard on anyone found consorting with demons, after playing through the Stone Prisoner DLC.

Also, is there anything in the lore about templars going after Wardens practicing forbidden magic? (excluding the encounter with your PC in Circle Tower).

[Kryyptehk]

Reaverwind wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

It would be more correct to say that the PC exists outside of any sort of social rules in BioWare games.

1. The Chant of Light does not forbid demonology.
2. The Chant of Light does forbid blood magic, and the Joining is arguably blood magic, which is one of many reasons the Wardens keep it secret.
3. Yes, the Grey Wardens have forts, but they don't own land. That's the reason they were kicked from Ferelden - the land was considered the king's.

Do Grey Warden mages practise forbidden magics? Yes. So do Circle mages. What happens when the Templars catch you with blood magic in the Circle quest? They attack you.

On point 1 - Really? I gathered that the Chantry would come down hard on anyone found consorting with demons, after playing through the Stone Prisoner DLC.

Also, is there anything in the lore about templars going after Wardens practicing forbidden magic? (excluding the encounter with your PC in Circle Tower).

I think the Chantry would just ignore what they do, it's hard to judge the only people who can end the Blight. And people who go against the Wardens generally don't have happy endings (Loghain as an example).

[Maria Caliban]

As far as I know, the only Warden we know of that practises forbidden magic is Avernus and he was never caught.

Okay, I might have missed something. I assume the Chantry, Templars, and Circle don't like mages consorting with demons because of that pesky abomination thing, but I don't recall anything in the Chant about demons being evil or something that people should never interact with, or there being any specific regulation against it.

[krylo]

Maria Caliban wrote...

3. Yes, the Grey Wardens have
forts, but they don't own land. That's the reason they were kicked from
Ferelden - the land was considered the king's.

The Ferelden Grey Wardens holed up in their fort and resisted siege for many months because they were part of a rebellion against the king.  It had nothing to do with whose land the fort was, it had everything to do with the fact that the Grey Wardens became embroiled in the political turmoil of the land and attempted a rebellion.

The Anderfels Grey Wardens are in charge of the country in everything but name. 

Both sets of Grey Wardens were heavily embroiled in politics and, whether they owned the land in name or not, they did so in practice, to the point of one actually owning all land in the country in practice (being as they have more power than the king in the Anders) and the other using it as a staging ground for their rebellion.

Maria Caliban wrote...

As far as I know, the only Warden we know of that practises forbidden magic is Avernus and he was never caught.
Okay, I might have missed something.

His dialogue heavily, extremely heavily even, implies that he was not the only Grey Warden mage to practice forbidden magic.  "It is only under the Grey Wardens that true magical research can continue."  Further, he was far from the only mage in that fortress, and it's pretty naive to think that if Avernus was doing it at least SOME of them weren't also doing it.

There's also the fact that the Grey Warden commander ordered him to summon the demons.

I assume the Chantry, Templars, and Circle don't like mages consorting with demons because of that pesky abomination thing, but I don't recall anything in the Chant about demons being evil or something that people should never interact with, or there being any specific regulation against it.

They are called demons BECAUSE they are evil.

That's basically the only difference between benign fade spirits and demons.

Modifié par krylo, 23 février 2010 - 01:34 .

[_Aine_]

No. Shortest answer



Why? Not entirely sure, but I gather it is nothing (little) to do with titles ( or entitlement ) and more to do with fear. A mage will never be allowed on the throne, because the fear of *spiritual* corruption to the people of ferelden is far greater than any ethical or political corruption that is likely commonplace. Fear = no ruley.

[Kryyptehk]

shantisands wrote...

No. Shortest answer

Why? Not entirely sure, but I gather it is nothing (little) to do with titles ( or entitlement ) and more to do with fear. A mage will never be allowed on the throne, because the fear of *spiritual* corruption to the people of ferelden is far greater than any ethical or political corruption that is likely commonplace. Fear = no ruley.

Well, if Alistair were to marry a mage and, by some miracle, had a child, there would be a VERY good chance that the child would have magic. And the only two options are to send him to the Circle, where he wouldn't be able to rule the country. Or making him apostate, which is, y'know, illegal.

[RobinMichelleB]

Mages are allowed to marry. Bann Teagan will flirt with a female mage if the right dialogue options are chosen. It is just that most mages don't marry because people are afraid of them, and I would imagine that they might fear that their children would be mages as well, if they had any. Mages are not allowed to hold titles, though. That's why Connor is kept from the Circle and why he has to give up his claim to Redcliffe when he goes to the Tower (unless you kill him, of course). Although the biggest reason Alistair will give a female Warden for not marrying her (because unless you tell the Landsmeet that you will rule together, he'll still break up with you if he becomes king) is that there is a very low probability that they will be able to have a child.

While the Circle does forbid demonology, a lot of the practices of the Circle and other forms of magic are close to being demonology and/or blood magic. There is a quest in the Circle Tower where you can summon a demon from the Fade, and the ritual is normally done with the library intact to train apprentices. Also, I would wager that the ability to track mages by using the blood from their phylacteries is some form of blood magic. And the restriction was put on mages in politics because so many rulers, mostly in Tevinter, had used their powers to do evil things.

Of course, what the Chantry seems to forget is that the Maker was disappointed in his creation of the demons because they did not have enough imagination, but was then disappoitned in his creation of the humans because they had too much, and created sin. One of these sins is, ostensibly, evil magic. Any magic can be turned to the use of evil, after all. You could even use healing magic as a form of torture.

The Wardens do advocate whatever it takes to win, but obviously that has backfired in the past. I think that depending on the Warden, there are certain levels of restraint that exist. But it is not only under the Grey Wardens that forbidden magic flourishes. There are plenty of apostates like Morrigan and Flemeth out there, as well as hedge mages, Chasind shamans, etc. Not to mention the Mages' Collective.

Edit: Ninja!  

Modifié par RobinMichelleB, 23 février 2010 - 01:58 .

[nubbers666]

nope that bastard dumped me after i put him on the throne alistair is a sneaky sob

[Kryyptehk]

katie916 wrote...

nope that bastard dumped me after i put him on the throne alistair is a sneaky sob

He left you for my Cousland

[Monica21]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It would be more correct to say that the PC exists outside of any sort of social rules in BioWare games.

1. The Chant of Light does not forbid demonology.
2. The Chant of Light does forbid blood magic, and the Joining is arguably blood magic, which is one of many reasons the Wardens keep it secret.
3. Yes, the Grey Wardens have forts, but they don't own land. That's the reason they were kicked from Ferelden - the land was considered the king's.

Do Grey Warden mages practise forbidden magics? Yes. So do Circle mages. What happens when the Templars catch you with blood magic in the Circle quest? They attack you.

I think it's safer to say that the Grey Wardens go by whatever rules they want. They aren't prohibited from owning land but many just choose not to. Kings (according to the opening sequence) have been Wardens. As for the reason the Wardens were kicked out of Ferelden, it didn't have anything to do with Arland claiming Soldier's Peak, but everything to do with Sophia Dryden, who did have a claim to the throne and also happened to be a Warden, leading a rebellion against him. With the support of several Banns no less, in addition to her faction of Wardens.

[sylvanaerie]

For Anora, no. Only noble. IF you want to stay in a relationship with Alistair, its not impossible to after he is made king if you hardened him and make a persuade check. But most you will be in that instance is Mistress/Chancellor. You don't have to make him king. If you put Anora on the throne, you can stay with Alistair, life goes on as before in that instance I don't know if you marry or not, it doesn't say in the epilogue. (thats what I did with my Dalish)

[Daerog]

How did the Grey Wardens vs the Chantry get involved in the topic question? If it was a nation of Grey Wardens, I don't think they'd care about a royal mage, as the original Grey Wardens were from the Tevinter Imperium, and the Imperial Chantry (which came around long after Drakon) is okay with mages, same with Tevinter.



Anyway, it's about tradition and the views of Fereldan citizens. Anora would deny you outright because of that alone, Alistair would be right to not make you queen because of that. Mages are not that trusted in Fereldan and having one be king/queen would likely freak out the civilians (and the local chantries would likely get the people worried as well).

[kyubi2020]

yes you cna but pny pc. here our.

yes you can marry the queen if yoru a mage . save it just before you sepak to queen for the frist time
after saving her. then by creting a shortcut  which sgould go to the destop then clcikpoiles and at the
end of exe leave a space and put -enabledeveloperconsole".

(beawre beofre you do this any of this put any equiment you want to make in to a part storange chest if
you have not ot one then reecod getting wardeb keep!
as the only backpack rests)

Runscript Warrior xx

then do runscript addxp X ( any number) until you cna fully upgraded the  coercion,
then talkt o queen ( note you must sepak to her before the unrest  quest is compete. you suppose an allaince. then click
top opiton then click strong king beside you and click the ppursdae option. then if you want to revade back to the maage.

Runscript Wizard xx

 . Plus aswell as yoru mage skill,talents and Sepcion. you will also get warrior taints and
the lockpick skill. then you can marry her as a Mage. even though import she still calls you husband. so i don't think it effect s the game.

Modifié par kyubi2020, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:51 .

[kyubi2020]

plus, it hould work if your a female wadrena nd you want to marry Alistair though have nt try it oonly try it as a Male warden.