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[revan11exile]

Funny thing about Anora is she wants to marry a male Mage,Dwarf Noble,Dwarf Commoner,Dalish and City Elf for more power for her but she says that because of Chantry Law it is forbidden.Good thing is she considers it and the same goes for Alistair,wants to do it but it is forbidden.

[Lemina Ausa]

That's one massive necro.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

revan11exile wrote...

Funny thing about Anora is she wants to marry a male Mage,Dwarf Noble,Dwarf Commoner,Dalish and City Elf for more power for her but she says that because of Chantry Law it is forbidden.Good thing is she considers it and the same goes for Alistair,wants to do it but it is forbidden.

Was it Chantry law? I thought her exact words were "Tempting, but the people will never accept X on the throne." I'm pretty sure Chantry law forbids the hell out of the Mage becoming king, but if theoretically a Dwarf or Dalish* converted to Andrastianism, I think that would technically be okay (Legally, at least, and that partially because those in the Chantry who would make it illegal wouldn't think to. I mean, why would they bother? Has it ever happened before?)

* A city elf is already Andrastian, of course: that's part of the conditions set in stone when the Alienage system was invented.

[TEWR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It would be more correct to say that the PC exists outside of any sort of social rules in BioWare games.

1. The Chant of Light does not forbid demonology.

Though this is from 2 years ago...

The Chant of Light may not forbid it -- from what we've seen, anyway -- but the Chantry does, as they try and conflate demonology with blood magic. Indeed, that's why Wilhelm had to conduct his research into demonology in secret. He says that the Chantry doesn't allow them to learn more about demons and demonic possession.

2. The Chant of Light does forbid blood magic, and the Joining is arguably blood magic, which is one of many reasons the Wardens keep it secret.

Technically, only the interpretation of the Chant of Light forbids blood magic. Unless Andraste herself came down from the Maker's side to tell us what she really meant, we can't say what the Chant forbids and allows.

It may say "Those who take my gift and use it against the Maker's Children are foul and corrupt", but there is debate amongst posters -- and more then likely amongst Thedosian scholars -- on whether this is talking about blood magic or magic as a whole being used against the citizens of Thedas.

The meaning of maleficar -- blood mage -- stemmed from interpretations of this line many, many years after Andraste's death.

And as for the Joining... well... I don't know how much of a secret it is considering Brother Genitivi knows about it -- citing that rumors in Soldier's Peak were forming about the "corruption in Warden-Commander Asturian's blood beginning to take its toll."

Genitivi also knows about the Calling Wardens undergo.

Then there's Anora knowing about the Joining's effects.

3. Yes, the Grey Wardens have forts, but they don't own land. That's the reason they were kicked from Ferelden - the land was considered the king's.

Untrue. The land was specifically given to the Wardens after the 2nd Blight ended. It was only when Sophia Dryden used the Wardens to her advantage in conjunction with support from the nobles of Ferelden to rightfully overthrow the Tyrant King Arland that Arland forbade the Wardens from receiving funds and exiled them.

Arland then launched a bloody siege against the fortress, trying to take what wasn't his by force. And even then, the Wardens were able to last it out for months and months.

As was pointed out, the Wardens in the Anderfels run the country in all but the official proclamations of such. Some even clamor that they should be the rightful rulers of the country.

Do Grey Warden mages practise forbidden magics? Yes. So do Circle mages. What happens when the Templars catch you with blood magic in the Circle quest? They attack you.

As do they against Anders in Awakening, maleficar or not. The Wardens are supposed to be immune to the Chantry's jurisdiction, as it's well known that the Wardens accept and allow blood mages within their ranks -- their reasoning being that if it kills the Darkspawn faster, it's allowed.

The Templars and the Mages attacking the Warden in that bugged and scrapped segment is a clear violation of this edict -- brought to light again in Awakening and in DAII, if one assumes the thugs were hired by the Chantry in the Avernus sidequest -- which indicates that the Chantry is beginning to ignore their own rules in regards to the Wardens.

Possibly even moving against them, which I find very likely considering the Chantry wouldn't let Anders go -- with Rylock saying Chantry authority supercedes the crown and then a Templar being placed in the Wardens to keep an eye on Anders.

[Corker]

FWIW, I think Rylock was just pursuing her own vengeance, and tried to use the big scary Chantry to intimidate the Warden into turning Anders over to her. She's convinced he killed the templars who had been guarding him, and I got the impression they were either her compatriots or else men under her command. She wanted to see the party she believed to be guilty pay, regulations be damned.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Faerunner wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

revan11exile wrote...

Funny thing about Anora is she wants to marry a male Mage,Dwarf Noble,Dwarf Commoner,Dalish and City Elf for more power for her but she says that because of Chantry Law it is forbidden.Good thing is she considers it and the same goes for Alistair,wants to do it but it is forbidden.

Was it Chantry law? I thought her exact words were "Tempting, but the people will never accept X on the throne." I'm pretty sure Chantry law forbids the hell out of the Mage becoming king, but if theoretically a Dwarf or Dalish* converted to Andrastianism, I think that would technically be okay (Legally, at least, and that partially because those in the Chantry who would make it illegal wouldn't think to. I mean, why would they bother? Has it ever happened before?)

* A city elf is already Andrastian, of course: that's part of the conditions set in stone when the Alienage system was invented.

I think it's due to racism as well as religion.

You know the extreme hostility against elves. They can't even buy a house in human quarters without it being looted and burned at best, the owners being lynched at worst. And as far as we know, elves aren't even allowed to join the Chantry (notice that you never see any elven priests, chanters or templars, and Varric even tells Fenris in DA2 that he'd make a great templar, but it's too bad he's not allowed), so why would the Chantry green-light elves to rule over them as monarchs?

I know there's racism, based partially on religious differences: Anora cites that racism her reason not to try it. What I'm saying is I don't think there's any religious law behind it. Nobody would resist efforts to create a religious law to block dwarven/elven monarchs, but who would bother to think one up? Up until the non-human Warden showed up, when has a dwarf/elf ever been in a position to try for the throne? And forgetting about the people for a second, what dwarf or elf could try for the throne without getting lynched by the Landsmeet?

[TEWR]

Corker wrote...

FWIW, I think Rylock was just pursuing her own vengeance, and tried to use the big scary Chantry to intimidate the Warden into turning Anders over to her. She's convinced he killed the templars who had been guarding him, and I got the impression they were either her compatriots or else men under her command. She wanted to see the party she believed to be guilty pay, regulations be damned.

While this is indeed possible, I got the impression from the Anders' short story that Rylock was indeed acting on behalf of the Chantry, given that the Chantry wouldn't let Anders go and the Wardens had to accept a Templar to appease the Chantry -- which in and of itself doesn't make much sense if you're a (Mage) Warden that told Rylock to shove it because Anders was protected by the regulations the Wardens have.

Certainly, it seemed as if Rylock was conducting a covert Chantry mission based on the friendship between Namaya and Anders. I'm partially convinced that Namaya was forced to tell Anders about that warehouse, lest she meet her end on the Templars' blades.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Corker wrote...

FWIW, I think Rylock was just pursuing her own vengeance, and tried to use the big scary Chantry to intimidate the Warden into turning Anders over to her. She's convinced he killed the templars who had been guarding him, and I got the impression they were either her compatriots or else men under her command. She wanted to see the party she believed to be guilty pay, regulations be damned.

While this is indeed possible, I got the impression from the Anders' short story that Rylock was indeed acting on behalf of the Chantry, given that the Chantry wouldn't let Anders go and the Wardens had to accept a Templar to appease the Chantry -- which in and of itself doesn't make much sense if you're a (Mage) Warden that told Rylock to shove it because Anders was protected by the regulations the Wardens have.

I believe that the thing with Rolan was probably after the Warden-Commander PC left for Amgarrak, the Eluvian, or whatever. My primary basis for this belief is that it's the only explanation I can think of that makes sense, especially for a Mage Warden, and even more so for a Blood Mage or Reaver Warden.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 28 juillet 2012 - 04:23 .

[TEWR]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I believe that the thing with Rolan was probably after the Warden-Commander PC left for Amgarrak, the Eluvian, or whatever. My primary basis for this belief is that it's the only explanation I can think of that makes sense, especially for a Mage Warden, and even more so for a Blood Mage or Reaver Warden.

Amgarrak maybe depending on how long after Awakening's end it takes place, but it couldn't have happened during Eluvian time as that happens 2.5 years after the events of Origins -- and at that point, Anders has been with Hawke for some time.