251 réponses à ce sujet

[RighteousRage]

In the suicide mission I basically just charged enemies 5 miles away in the first part, missed half the valves, and just hit the final one and somehow Legion still survived



This is the kind of experience you can have as a vanguard

[Coughee Brotha]

I personally found the Vangaurd as my favorite class mainly because its fun and fits my playstyles. I think I would like infiltrator but i think im playing it wrong. Im not dying but Im just not having fun with it. I thought I was using charge correctly until I saw Sinosleep. Now I charge everything (still smartly) but I no longer hold back. I can clear rooms in a fraction the time it takes me with other classes and its the best class to utilize the shotgun my favorite gun

[EverteMax]

Woah woah woah...hold your horses about ME3. It's just a combat class. It ruined your play experience and want to quit ME3? Either you overreacted or need to learn how to play properly. Seriously, I didn't enjoy some classes...infiltrator is one. But I didn't say the game sucks.

And, I actually like their new inventory system, yeah, there was too little stuff, but god I was relieved they removed the clunky organization. It made sense that changing your armor and weapon, you have to visit a locker cause...hey, packing 150 items and running around with you isn't logic, no matter how RPG it is. It is a damn step forward...if they revert back to the old system...that's a shame.

[Ajara123]

I think that the vanguard class was good to me. I had fun with it. Im going to try and use the other classes so that I can see what each class has to offer. As far as you saying that BW ruined the vanguard class. I really don't think they did. I just think adding in the charge was something that they knew was going to be a good add on to it.

[slackbheep]

If you're not playing insanity, Shockwave is nothing short of amazing.

[Satanicfirewraith]

EverteMax wrote...

Woah woah woah...hold your horses about ME3. It's just a combat class. It ruined your play experience and want to quit ME3? Either you overreacted or need to learn how to play properly. Seriously, I didn't enjoy some classes...infiltrator is one. But I didn't say the game sucks.
And, I actually like their new inventory system, yeah, there was too little stuff, but god I was relieved they removed the clunky organization. It made sense that changing your armor and weapon, you have to visit a locker cause...hey, packing 150 items and running around with you isn't logic, no matter how RPG it is. It is a damn step forward...if they revert back to the old system...that's a shame.

Its not JUST about the vanguard class being trashed, but the over all feel from good rpg, to lame ass shooter.....
ME 1 was amazing, one of my top 5 games ever, ME 2, rates with most the mediocre games I have played. Seriously they gameplay, while combat movement was improved, was completely trashed with the striping of powers, adding ammo as a power, removing nades, adding that stupid ass reload/ammo mechanic, removing 90% of the customizable content, removing most the emotion for the characters, plot or most anything.

Like I said if ME 3 is more of the same from ME 2, then I doubt I will even waste my time with it, or with BW again because of the ****ing they have done with ME.

[Omega-202]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...


Like I said if ME 3 is more of the same from ME 2, then I doubt I will even waste my time with it, or with BW again because of the ****ing they have done with ME.

By "the <bleep>ing they have done with ME" do you mean how they made it into a commercial mainstream success which was massively applauded as an improvement by nearly every reviewer out there?  How its exposed a whole new group of people to BioWare's genius story writing?  How its become the LARGEST January release of all time and nearly outsold an entire month's worth of New Super Mario Bros in just 4 days?  

You are in the vast minority.  Losing your purchase of ME3 will not be a loss for them or us.  Nobody cares.  

[Jonathan Shepard]

DaftPaycheck wrote...

You obviously missed the premise of the vanguard class. Sorry. Go check out the class forums, there are vids of vanguards on insanity along with suggested builds. Played correctly, they can be incredibly fun, but they are certainly less straightforward than some of the other classes available, especially on higher difficulties.

In short, it's not the class that's broken.

Precisely-- the vanguard's style of play has completely changed, if you ask me. Charge was a disappointment though, as on Veteran+, beyond level 15, it kinda became useless as it did the same damage as two Carnifex shots... which isn't much, considering it didn't do much against armor, either.

[Ajara123]

well Satanicfirewraith i can agree with you on some points. I didn't like having ammo as a power being that ammo is just ammo to me. I did like the reload mechanic to a certain extent. I didn't like when i was shooting and didn't know I ran out of ammo and just couldn't shot. Yet I still liked the game. I didn't like the equipment part on the first one. you got equipment for everything so I didn't care for it.



I can say this I didn't like that they removed most of the rp part of the game but, I hope they have a good reason for it.

[D4rk50ul808]

Considering Vanguard is still an elite class makes me wonder if these people even tried to use it as intended. I've cleared the game on Insanity with Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Vanguard. Infiltrator was the most broken feeling, like the all powerful characters from ME1. Vanguard felt the most powerful without being overpowered. I never experienced the feeling of a useless power or unbeatable enemy.



Shockwave is excellent for knocking enemies out of cover, killing groups of enemies that are unprotected. Charge is a godly skill and if you used it correctly you would understand. Pull is excellent for disabling enemies or setting up your next charge. Inferno ammo works extremely well with the shotgun's reload times, and the burning animation on fleshies really helps control the area.



You may not like the fact that every character can't be an AR spamming destroyer of life, but the new system delivers what it intended. If it bothers you so much that all enemies have extra layers of protection try playing on Veteran, Hardcore/Insanity wasn't designed for the average gamer.

[Habelo]

I dont understand, i miss like 1/4 of all my close up shots, wtf. I am one of those who does flawless headshots with the scout in css. How can i miss when close up?



Maybe vangaurd is good... and i... suck?

[Omega-202]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...
Charge was a disappointment though, as on Veteran+, beyond level 15, it kinda became useless as it did the same damage as two Carnifex shots... which isn't much, considering it didn't do much against armor, either.

The point of the ability was never the damage it did itself.  The point is that it puts you into "point blank" range which gives you a 2x multiplier on your weapon damage (something a lot of people don't know) and completely replenished your shielding.  

Its a repositioning and defensive power more than its an offensive one at the higher difficulty levels.  I can see why you see it as useless: you're using it wrong.  

Modifié par Omega-202, 24 février 2010 - 01:20 .

[D4rk50ul808]

Habelo wrote...

I dont understand, i miss like 1/4 of all my close up shots, wtf. I am one of those who does flawless headshots with the scout in css. How can i miss when close up?

Maybe vangaurd is good... and i... suck?

Don't use left trigger so much, that was my issue at first.  I only aim now if I know I can get a headshot, otherwise I blindfire followed by a melee.  Its actually a bit harder than playing a standard FPS because you have no orientation to the target, you just appear and have less than a second to line up the shot.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Omega-202 wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...
Charge was a disappointment though, as on Veteran+, beyond level 15, it kinda became useless as it did the same damage as two Carnifex shots... which isn't much, considering it didn't do much against armor, either.

The point of the ability was never the damage it did itself.  The point is that it puts you into "point blank" range which gives you a 2x multiplier on your weapon damage (something a lot of people don't know) and completely replenished your shielding.  

Its a repositioning and defensive power more than its an offensive one at the higher difficulty levels.  I can see why you see it as useless: you're using it wrong.  

Like I said- in ME1 the Vanguard was definitely an offensive-type class. Now, I can't just use barrier forever and use my shotgun to blow everyone away on insanity. Now I have to take cover. No wonder.  

[harleyflames20000]

vanguards...rule, im not one of the elite players, not by far, i die alot, i get pissed at the game, and then i realise, wait...theres YET ANOTHER guy stood, un armoured, on his own, behind a really good vantage point...hmm, CHARGE, you dont even need a specific build, play to your own strengths, i keep it simple, strip away shileds and barriers with the geth pulse rifle (upgrade it fully, get squad incendiary...now tell me it sucks!) then charge in with an eviscerator and melee to the face, played right, and played to your own personal abilities and preferences, its one of the easiest classes to master, sure, you can sit back sniping, or run in guns blazing with a massive sodding machine gun, but theres no skill involved, you can do that on ANY class, just pick the relevant weapon on the collector ship...simple as, if your just going to pick any old class, then play the same way as you do in others...then you really, are doing yourself out of enjoyment, part of the fun is dying a million times, finding a brilliant strategy, and then sitting satsified and happy that you just perfected that particular mission, for example, i had no cain heavy wep. got it now, but cant use it yet...and i still, as a vanguard, saved the crates from the YMIR mechs, escaped the derelict ship, and took on 2 ymirs and a squad of blue suns, and i'll be honest, im crap at the game really, i just play smart, saying that the class is broken is a massive oversight, given the fact that there are PLENTY of people who use and adapt the class to their own preferences and skills, and find the game, even on insanity, more than manageable

[sinosleep]

How is a power that puts you into melee range a defensive power? It provides defense by boosting your shields, but nothing that puts you into melee range is a defensive power. You can charge pretty much at will regardless of difficulty or level, considering I have vids of me doing just than from as low as level 5 to as high as level 30 I think I can speak with a bit o authority on that.

Although you are correct in that the damage the power does in and of itself is irrelevant. It's purpose, and power is putting you into melee range where you get a huge damage modifier and become the only class in the game that can really make use of shotguns.

Modifié par sinosleep, 24 février 2010 - 02:13 .

[Serenum]

sinosleep wrote...

How is a power that puts you into melee range a defensive power? It provides defense by boosting your shields, but nothing that puts you into melee range is a defensive power. You can charge pretty much at will regardless of difficulty or level, considering I have vids of me doing just than from as low as level 5 to as high as level 30 I think I can speak with a bit o authority on that.

Although you are correct in that the damage the power does in and of itself is irrelevant. It's purpose, and power is putting you into melee range where you get a huge damage modifier and become the only class in the game that can really make use of shotguns.

I fully agree, that's actually the challenge of Charge right there: it's not in any way, shape or form a defensive power. It's a in-your-face high risk move that actually requires some thought to be done correctly.

And melee is a must. Can you live without it? Sure can but only in certain situations. If you want to charge in the thick of a fight you will be better off taking full use of melee attacks, just upgrade your attack and pack in the shoulders that add another 25% and you will be MMA'ing the hell out of everything.

I think most people that have trouble with Charge simply don't use it effectively and don't use melee at all. Hell, I had a steep learning curve in the begining because I wasn't taking advantage of melee attacks at all and kept being nailed by cross-fire as well. After some time playing and adapting to teh new style though you can use Charge pretty much non-stop in the battlefield.

Modifié par Ser Rune, 24 février 2010 - 02:30 .

[EverteMax]

Satanicfirewraith wrote..
Its not JUST about the vanguard class being trashed, but the over all feel from good rpg, to lame ass shooter.....

Yah...I have to somehow agree with this...there are much better 3rd person shooters out there. Where's blind fire!?!?!?!? LOL..But I dun think it scraps the line of 'lame ass'. I have seen real lame ass 3rd person shooters.

...completely trashed with the striping of powers, adding
ammo as a power, removing nades, adding that stupid ass reload/ammo
mechanic, removing 90% of the customizable content...

Customizable content is lacking. No questions there. It's ok that they streamline the powers, but I do think they should add a seperate streamlined set of non-power skills, like combat damage, movement speed or wat, instead of just only one class mastery to improve upon.

I do like the reload mechanics. As before, the overheating of guns in ME1 scraps by ilogical. You have to change your engine oil rite?

... removing most the
emotion for the characters, plot or most anything.

That's where I need to disagree. ME2 has better character emotions than 1. ME1 was zzzzzz when it comes to character interactions. Only Joker was the good one...and that's why he's back in 2. The plot was ok. Talking about missions, ME1 wasn't any better, 3 worlds and off to get the Boss. ME2 isn't better, but it isn't worse.

My humble opinions...

Modifié par EverteMax, 24 février 2010 - 02:41 .

[Onegrayjedi]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

EverteMax wrote...

Woah woah woah...hold your horses about ME3. It's just a combat class. It ruined your play experience and want to quit ME3? Either you overreacted or need to learn how to play properly. Seriously, I didn't enjoy some classes...infiltrator is one. But I didn't say the game sucks.
And, I actually like their new inventory system, yeah, there was too little stuff, but god I was relieved they removed the clunky organization. It made sense that changing your armor and weapon, you have to visit a locker cause...hey, packing 150 items and running around with you isn't logic, no matter how RPG it is. It is a damn step forward...if they revert back to the old system...that's a shame.

Its not JUST about the vanguard class being trashed, but the over all feel from good rpg, to lame ass shooter.....
ME 1 was amazing, one of my top 5 games ever, ME 2, rates with most the mediocre games I have played. Seriously they gameplay, while combat movement was improved, was completely trashed with the striping of powers, adding ammo as a power, removing nades, adding that stupid ass reload/ammo mechanic, removing 90% of the customizable content, removing most the emotion for the characters, plot or most anything.

Like I said if ME 3 is more of the same from ME 2, then I doubt I will even waste my time with it, or with BW again because of the ****ing they have done with ME.

*Sigh* its times like this i wonder how human actually manages to keep itself from crumbling down into a massive P!sshole

Bold: Ok yeah, some powers of class were missing, thats a valid point

italics: Nothing really wrong with that, considering that most of the time during ME 1, the points added into an ability didnot seem to really affect until like 5 points later

Underline: You have heavy weapons, they are not hard to use,

Bold Second/italics: Once again, you bring up a point that was settled before the game was done, and quite frankley, it was a success.....i dont see how adding reloading= more shooter, ammo is ammo......uurrr Thermal clips are thermals clips, Fallout 3 wasnt really a shooter, and it had ammo....and it was considerabilly less than ME2

Bold/underline: how did you calculate 90% in the first place? Second of all, the customazation of the weapons was very very dull and annoying considering that the weapons onyl had a difference in the weapons strength, and looks. In ME2, the guns actually have a considerable difference between each other, such as the automatic assault rifle to the gun-burst rifle.

Ending to that paragraph: Most emotion from the characters....huh? if you actually spent some time with the characters and their stories, there may at first seem frightening at first, but then begin to trust Shepard....
     Example: Jack:    Yes Jack, the killing spree biotic......If you actually spent some time to make her close to a romance person, her personality has alot of change...... Most of the other characters become alittle more softer with a paragon, and stay the same with renagade......

Considering your name......you were probably a renagade.......


Sigh i dont even know why people like this are here on forums......just to stirr things up settle long ago....(in a galexy not far enough away)

[Onegrayjedi]

ME1 missions were fluff, having less or more the same enemies to fight with.....again and again



ME2 actually tried to have missions look and feel a bit different from each other, which was a nice touch to the game......but a few repeats would have been nice



I would also like to add that FireWraith only comments when things are going against him in the post he( i think) created

[screwoffreg]

This thread convinced me to try a Vanguard. I loved my female soldier and while my transferred adept is no God (as he was in ME 1), it was satisfying just to transfer him over. Loved the Sentinel class, though I stopped playing him as I am waiting for new DLC. I am ready to bash some skulls in though, so I hope the Vanguard doesn't disappoint.

[Soruyao]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...
Its not JUST about the vanguard class being trashed, but the over all feel from good rpg, to lame ass shooter.....
ME 1 was amazing, one of my top 5 games ever, ME 2, rates with most the mediocre games I have played. Seriously they gameplay, while combat movement was improved, was completely trashed with the striping of powers, adding ammo as a power, removing nades, adding that stupid ass reload/ammo mechanic, removing 90% of the customizable content, removing most the emotion for the characters, plot or most anything.

Like I said if ME 3 is more of the same from ME 2, then I doubt I will even waste my time with it, or with BW again because of the ****ing they have done with ME.

Then you might as well just give up and leave, because ME2 was a huge financial success.  They're not going to change it for a single whiny person who can't go an entire post without resorting to swearing.

But I doubt you will leave, because you like complaining too much.

[Onegrayjedi]

EverteMax wrote...

Woah woah woah...hold your horses about ME3. It's just a combat class. It ruined your play experience and want to quit ME3? Either you overreacted or need to learn how to play properly. Seriously, I didn't enjoy some classes...infiltrator is one. But I didn't say the game sucks.
And, I actually like their new inventory system, yeah, there was too little stuff, but god I was relieved they removed the clunky organization. It made sense that changing your armor and weapon, you have to visit a locker cause...hey, packing 150 items and running around with you isn't logic, no matter how RPG it is. It is a damn step forward...if they revert back to the old system...that's a shame.

Exaggeratted claims are bad....Sorry for spelling mistakes:pinched:

But yeah first of all, the Mass Effect series is a combination between shooter and RGP elements. It can never be a true balance between each other, why? Because people have different views upon what makes a RPG a RPG
    Sorry shooter fans, me being one, its pretty obvious what makes a shooter game

[infinite bias]

Why is this thread still open? I think its long been agreed on that the OP is wrong and the Vanguard is still a very effective class, albeit not one for everyone.

[screwoffreg]

Mass Effect 2 has good RPG elements, but not GREAT. I think they will work to improve on that in ME 3. Otherwise, the combat is MUCH improved and the new classes are actually unique.



In fact, my only major complaint in ME 2 was the anemic squad interaction. From the makers of awesome games like Baldurs Gate and Dragon Age it was a bummer to see how the squad was mostly quiet and non responsive to their environment.