251 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Shatakai wrote...
 don't you think?

I doubt it, else the thread wouldn't exist.

There are copious amounts of videos on the net that show how to play the Vanguard effectively even on insanity. Vanguard simply is not broken or ruined, some people just suck at playing it.

Modifié par marshalleck, 23 février 2010 - 12:17 .

[vhatever]

Even though I think vanguard is fine, those videos all rely on cheating or are not representative of how the vanguard actually plays. They take videos of battles they have fought dozens of time and know where and when they can charge, where and when X, Y, Z will show up etc.



They are the worst class videos because no one takes videos of them charging into a guy and killing him and maybe another only to realize a 3/4 people are walking right into that area to evaporate you. They also don't show the constant problems with targetting which often gets you killed on harder difficulties cause you need to keep to charging once you start.

[Sailears]

fredders wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

vhatever wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Actually Adept in ME 1 was clearly the most overpowered class. Nothing could touch you. You only died on Insanity if you took dumb risks by being arrogant, which I often did. Otherwise, you could lock down a room and laugh as even the strongest enemies were frozen/floating/weakened.

What a god damn moron. A vanguard WAS an adept, only BETTER.

Vanguard with Singularity bonus talent was an Adept that could wear Medium Armor and not look stupid. That was win in my book.

An Adept with assualt rifles was pretty set though. You don't need armor with a full barrier, and with the ridiculous recharge times you could have barrier up all the time.  More than that, every biotic power minus a full stasis was useful.  You only needed the latter to get up to the point where you could damage a frozen enemy.

My Adept run on Insanity was absurdely easy and it seems we are grasping at straws here as frankly Insanity was easy for many classes.  As a soldier just thrown on Immunity and ram the closest enemy.  As an Adept, Singularity and then fire every other biotic randomely=win.

Couldn't agree more. My Bastion runthrough was nothing short of a joke! I could literally run into the middle of a room and just annihilate everything (Shotty was my bonus, and what a bonus!). The shotty just made the Singularity even more lethal! I would throw a Singularity, Stasis 1 enemy in the Singularity for a still target, then Warp them followed by Master Carnage. Just about everything caught in the Singularity takes a fair amount of damage, and the enemy you directly hits nearly always dies!

Bastion = ME1 God.

Yeah I enjoy the 'God complex' of ME1 Bastion Adept.

[another Riposte]

Only problem with Vanguard is that sometimes charge won't activate even though the enemy is standing right in front of you, with no obstructions.

[Satanicfirewraith]

Guys, just report the troll for flaming, like I did.

PM Chris or Stanley about it.



And for the people who call me incompetent.. I am rather good at the game, but I hate the lame ammo system and have been against it since before E3'09

I dont expect a tank like ME 1, but damn give me some useful weapons and powers... (of course with only 1-2 weapons and only 4 weapons for poor old vanguard class..) its not had to figure out.



They mucked up a great rpg with to much crappy shooter stuff.

That was one of the best classes in ME1....

To bad they ruined it in ME 2.

[marshalleck]

vhatever wrote...

They are the worst class videos because no one takes videos of them charging into a guy and killing him and maybe another only to realize a 3/4 people are walking right into that area to evaporate you. They also don't show the constant problems with targetting which often gets you killed on harder difficulties cause you need to keep to charging once you start.

They don't show that because the videos are showing how to play the class correctly, not like a drooling moron.

Mastering the Vanguard class isn't about how often you spam charge. It's about knowing when not to. I know, I know. It's an incredibly difficult concept to wrap one's mind around. <_<

Modifié par marshalleck, 23 février 2010 - 12:29 .

[sinosleep]

rab****annel wrote...
Bad choice! That's just terrible. Show some involving multiple opponents. I think the AverageGatsby might have some. Not sinosleep. No offense, but his play style is just full of holes.

LMFAO. 

1.) Average Gatsby doesn't make vanguard vids 
2.) Please point out these "holes" in my playstyle, I'd like to know what they are considering I've trainwrecked this game from jump. 

p.s. Threads like these are why I don't post in general any more, this place is a wasteland. Any real discussions take place in the class forums where the adults live. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 23 février 2010 - 12:31 .

[ImperialOperative]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

They mucked up a great rpg with to much crappy shooter stuff.
That was one of the best classes in ME1....
To bad they ruined it in ME 2.

What sort of delusion is this?

ME1 WAS the game that was bogged down with crappy shooter mechanics.  ME2 turned those crappy shooter mechanics into faster-paced, smoother, and better polished shooter mechanics.

[vhatever]

marshalleck wrote...

vhatever wrote...

They are the worst class videos because no one takes videos of them charging into a guy and killing him and maybe another only to realize a 3/4 people are walking right into that area to evaporate you. They also don't show the constant problems with targetting which often gets you killed on harder difficulties cause you need to keep to charging once you start.

They don't show that because the videos are showing how to play the class correctly, not like a drooling moron.

Ya, sure. A drooling retard who has no want to memorize every bit of pathing and NPC spawning in the game. That's pretty tough stuff for someone who never ever played if before. If you don't use charge the vangaurd is by far the weakest, most worthless class. Full stop. The non-skill lamers who post bogus vangaurd videos are the lowest of the low. Me vanguard be good, me be good. Dur, dur.

[marshalleck]

vhatever wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

vhatever wrote...

They are the worst class videos because no one takes videos of them charging into a guy and killing him and maybe another only to realize a 3/4 people are walking right into that area to evaporate you. They also don't show the constant problems with targetting which often gets you killed on harder difficulties cause you need to keep to charging once you start.

They don't show that because the videos are showing how to play the class correctly, not like a drooling moron.

Ya, sure. A drooling retard who has no want to memorize every bit of pathing and NPC spawning in the game. That's pretty tough stuff for someone who never ever played if before. If you don't use charge the vangaurd is by far the weakest, most worthless class. Full stop. The non-skill lamers who post bogus vangaurd videos are the lowest of the low. Me vanguard be good, me be good. Dur, dur.

What a compelling argument you've made.

Using charge appropriately doesn't require rote memorization. It requires one to look at a crossfire situation and say to themselves "yeah, charging into the middle of 7 enemies is probably not the smartest tactical decision."

Many people that complain about charge keep bringing up the same stupid argument over and over: "I charged into the enemies and they killed me, charge sucks, waaaah"

Modifié par marshalleck, 23 février 2010 - 12:36 .

[BeyondFX]

No offense, but the vanguard is ridiculously powerful in ME2. Maybe you should go have a look at the classes forum with the huge thread about how awesome the class is. No other class can take things head on like the vanguard.

[RoninOmega]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Whats the point of up close and personal when things dont die, group up on you and then the stupid red makes it almost impossible to find cover and when after a few shots your sol because you gotta try and reload yet at least half the time if you get hit, it stops the action....

Its a horrible class now. Infact... I dont even think I am going to finish that playthrough due to how bad the class is now.
Its not fun nor is it kool. Its been turned to utter garbage.
R.I.P. Vanguard class. 11-2007 - 1-26-2010

Although I do agree vaguard could've had more powers, perferably choose any free one from any class since you have an empty spot even if your guy's maxed out, thats my only complaint about the vanguard, nothing else is on par with it except infiltrator, my second favorite class. 

You're saying the class is dead, it is not and it's extremely fun and whoever gave this topic 5* should relook that ok, heres a few tips

1.  You don't run into the middle of enemy territory with charge and expect to live, if you do, be well prepared

2.  Shockwave is your friend, but you need your squad to drop down enemy shields and if their rushing toward you, have shockwave at them, even then, they will be shocked 1 point or another, it's just better with shields down

3.  When you upgrade charge to 4, have it knock-down the whole group, very effective!

4.  Crappy ammo types?  When someone's rushing at you, get inferno to knock down their shields(Especially armor!), and use cryo ammo to freeze them, problem solved!  Even better, pull them and then freeze them.

5.  If your going to rush through, at least advance train in something like barrier or fortification, it always helps!

6. Charge at someone who position has the least open space, make sure to kill him while you're still in bullet time with inferno ammo, or just charge at the most farthest enemy from you

7.  When in doubt, charge at the farthest person and just run for a checkpoint!  It's going to be a last ditch attempt so make sure it counts, only use if you have no other options.

[sinosleep]

BeyondFX wrote...

No offense, but the vanguard is ridiculously powerful in ME2. Maybe you should go have a look at the classes forum with the huge thread about how awesome the class is. No other class can take things head on like the vanguard.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I didn't realize my mistake earlier in bringing up the class forums. I don't want the discussions there to devolve into the garbage that is posted here in general. 

[vhatever]

marshalleck wrote...

vhatever wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

vhatever wrote...

They are the worst class videos because no one takes videos of them charging into a guy and killing him and maybe another only to realize a 3/4 people are walking right into that area to evaporate you. They also don't show the constant problems with targetting which often gets you killed on harder difficulties cause you need to keep to charging once you start.

They don't show that because the videos are showing how to play the class correctly, not like a drooling moron.

Ya, sure. A drooling retard who has no want to memorize every bit of pathing and NPC spawning in the game. That's pretty tough stuff for someone who never ever played if before. If you don't use charge the vangaurd is by far the weakest, most worthless class. Full stop. The non-skill lamers who post bogus vangaurd videos are the lowest of the low. Me vanguard be good, me be good. Dur, dur.

What a compelling argument you've made.

Using charge appropriately doesn't require rote memorization. It requires one to look at a crossfire situation and say to themselves "yeah, charging into the middle of 7 enemies is probably not the smartest tactical decision."

Many people that complain about charge keep bringing up the same stupid argument over and over: "I charged into the enemies and they killed me, charge sucks, waaaah"

Using charge DOES require you to know where enemies are going to come from, which is impossible unless you have played through it already. It's not sbout charging into enemies and them killing you. It's about killing a couple and then a second set of enemies arrive on your flank/behind you, etc.

These guys make these videos knowing everything aht's going to happen and when, they also know where they will get the "no charge" targetting bug.

Very, very misleading represenation of the class for a new player.

[Dualcode]

Vanguard is debateable in terms of Gameplay, you either suck at it, or you dont. And even if you suck, honestly..what the hell? Use Cover you Moron. Work your way towards the opponent and give them a straight-to-the-face load of Shrapnel from a Shotgun. Cant be that hard really. Biotics are still the most effective use of Crowd Control, and not to bust the Room, go into Overdrive and kill everything that looks at you funny. My Adept in ME1 was practically God, just duck behind cover and throw a biotic out now and then. Now i actually have to think, make strategies, use cover, run for my god damn life on occasion (yes this happens alot on Insanity). Now the class is actually fun! And Vanguards are even more fun due to being far more flexible on what you can accomplish with them.

Youtube Vids wont help, start a game and experiment with your class. Find a Style that suits you best and does not require you to charge headfirst into the next Enemy Horde expecting to come out unscathed...or to sum it up in a Nutshell with some very old, very wise Words:

Learn 2 Play.

Edit: Before i forget, get the Eviscerator or whatever the new DLC Shotgun was called, 3 Shots of Ammo and can kill most standard Enemies in 2-3 Shots on Insanity in close to medium Range, or at least kill the Armor/Barrier/Whatever entirely leaving them open for other Skills or a headbutt in the Face (do not recommend against Husk Hordes).

Modifié par Dualcode, 23 février 2010 - 12:50 .

[SupidSeep]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...
That was one of the best classes in ME1....
To bad they ruined it in ME 2.

That's what I used to think when I started ME2 by importing my ME1 Vanguard and playing on Insanity

Then I watch a bit of sinosleep's vids and realise that I wasn't playing to the new Vanguard's strengths.

Sure I died when things go wrong (which is very often), but when done right, the Vanguard is a BULLDOZER.  Sometimes, I can't believe how fast the Vanguard "resolve" certain situations that I used to allow to degenerate into siege warfare.

Reminds me so much of Sega's Cyber Troopers Virtual On (robot 1-on-1 combat sim) where my fave char carries a shotgun that is horrid at range but dangerous at point blank, and has a ridiculously fast (x2 that of the next fastest char) forward boost speed ... sounds familiar?

[marshalleck]

vhatever wrote...

Using charge DOES require you to know where enemies are going to come from, which is impossible unless you have played through it already. It's not sbout charging into enemies and them killing you. It's about killing a couple and then a second set of enemies arrive on your flank/behind you, etc.

These guys make these videos knowing everything aht's going to happen and when, they also know where they will get the "no charge" targetting bug.

Very, very misleading represenation of the class for a new player.

Well you're simply wrong. I haven't memorized every encounter in the game but I can consistently one-shot most of them simply by keeping an eye on the battlefield and considering which enemies are in and out of cover. 9 times out of 10 if you look at the enemies and charge the one who is in cover relative to its companions, you'll win every fight. As for charge bugging, it does happen occasionally, but the only place it really hurts the Vanguard is around Collector platforms.

[javierabegazo]

Jesus Christ...

[Omega-202]

vhatever wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

vhatever wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

vhatever wrote...

They are the worst class videos because no one takes videos of them charging into a guy and killing him and maybe another only to realize a 3/4 people are walking right into that area to evaporate you. They also don't show the constant problems with targetting which often gets you killed on harder difficulties cause you need to keep to charging once you start.

They don't show that because the videos are showing how to play the class correctly, not like a drooling moron.

Ya, sure. A drooling retard who has no want to memorize every bit of pathing and NPC spawning in the game. That's pretty tough stuff for someone who never ever played if before. If you don't use charge the vangaurd is by far the weakest, most worthless class. Full stop. The non-skill lamers who post bogus vangaurd videos are the lowest of the low. Me vanguard be good, me be good. Dur, dur.

What a compelling argument you've made.

Using charge appropriately doesn't require rote memorization. It requires one to look at a crossfire situation and say to themselves "yeah, charging into the middle of 7 enemies is probably not the smartest tactical decision."

Many people that complain about charge keep bringing up the same stupid argument over and over: "I charged into the enemies and they killed me, charge sucks, waaaah"

Using charge DOES require you to know where enemies are going to come from, which is impossible unless you have played through it already. It's not sbout charging into enemies and them killing you. It's about killing a couple and then a second set of enemies arrive on your flank/behind you, etc.

These guys make these videos knowing everything aht's going to happen and when, they also know where they will get the "no charge" targetting bug.

Very, very misleading represenation of the class for a new player.

2 points:

1.  If you are to assume that such competence and mastery can come from a single play through, then its not an insult to the maker of the video, its an insult to you, the person who makes the asinine assumption.

2. As someone who, according to your own admission, has a myriad of experience with these situations, do you mind telling us what such situations (being flanked by ambushes, extra enemies) you are talking about?  Which missions and where?

From my experience, there are only a handful of tough "extras" that I've run into that I was completely blindsided by and they were usually due to absolutely stupid gameplay on my part, even on my first play through.  OF COURSE, you don't charge the first set of Vorcha during the back alley Blood Pack/Suns fight on Mordin's mission only to be flanked by the next wave.  OF COURSE you don't run straight out into the open areas on Garrus's loyalty mission without waiting for the ambushes first.  
That's just common sense that you should see coming on your first play through.  So, where did you get surprised?  Odds are they were completely obvious mistakes that once you admit them, we'll all just laugh.  

Or you'll just admit that your experience is no vantage point from which to make your "claims".  

[TornadoADV]

The Vanguard certainly requires a deft touch now, compared to ME1. Use the class's Biotics to pop enemies out of cover and use charge to take down stragglers, bosses or any smuck trying to flank you.



Once they fix the "inside viable range to Charge" bug, the Vanguard will be unstoppable.

[Tleining]

@ vhatever

uhm, i don't play Vanguard since the class simply doesn't suit my playing style. But as far as enemies go, it's pretty obvious where they are coming from, i don't know the exact number of enemies that are going to attack, but i know in advance where to aim. And it's not that hard to pay attention to your surroundings, especially since there is a lot of cover in combat areas.

[Murmillos]

javierabegazo wrote...

Jesus Christ...

lol

[Hellsteeth30]

It's a tactical class, to be used tactically.



Say you've got a group of enemies in a forward position and one or two stragglers at the back. Charge the the guys at the back, take them out, then you've got the forward guys in a crossfire.



Shockwave has it's uses, look at what it does in a scions hands for example. Pull is completely useless, and incendiary ammo is pretty much a necessity on higher levels due to nearly everything having armour.



It's purely a matter of practice, and playstyle as some people are naturally more inclined to a way of playing. that doesn't lend itself to the way you should play a vanguard.



In conclusion, vanguard isn't a bad class, it's just a hard class to use right. Haven't tried an adept yet, so I can't comment on that.

[sinosleep]

javierabegazo wrote...

Jesus Christ...

That about sums it up.