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BW ruined the Vanguard class!


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#126
Soruyao

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Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Oh and javier, FYI I know how to play the god damn vanguard, but to me it plays like ****!
BW ruined Vanguard, And I dont care if you agree or not, in my eyes they took what was a great class in ME 1 and took a big warm wet **** on the class.


If you want anyone to take you seriously then take the time to actually post substance and not a bunch of random asterisked out swearing.

It's childish and it makes you look like a mindless troll.

Lots of people like the class, so clearly it's not completely ruined.  Maybe they changed it in a way that YOU personally don't like, but that's tough, because enough people like it that it's not gonna change any time soon.

Play another class, lower the difficulty, or post constructively without random cussing and flames.

#127
ImperialOperative

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Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Oh and javier, FYI I know how to play the god damn vanguard, but to me it plays like ****!
BW ruined Vanguard, And I dont care if you agree or not, in my eyes they took what was a great class in ME 1 and took a big warm wet **** on the class.


When you say stupid garbage like this, that's when people start thinking that you are a joke.

#128
Pocketgb

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Oh hey awesome, Sino (i.e. best damn Vanguard ever) is posting in here, didn't see you there. Just check out his vids on how to do it.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 23 février 2010 - 03:14 .


#129
Inarai

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Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Oh and javier, FYI I know how to play the god damn vanguard, but to me it plays like ****!
BW ruined Vanguard, And I dont care if you agree or not, in my eyes they took what was a great class in ME 1 and took a big warm wet **** on the class.


Then you only think you know how to play it - none of the classes play the same as they did in ME1.   But Vanguards, played right, are amazing.

#130
Satanicfirewraith

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ImperialOperative wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Oh and javier, FYI I know how to play the god damn vanguard, but to me it plays like ****!
BW ruined Vanguard, And I dont care if you agree or not, in my eyes they took what was a great class in ME 1 and took a big warm wet **** on the class.


When you say stupid garbage like this, that's when people start thinking that you are a joke.


He had no right to rename the thread either yet he did.
He had changed to "I dont know how to play as a vanguard"
Cept I know how to play it, it just sucks. Plain and simple.
BW took a great class and ruined it... (not the only thing they ruined in ME 2)
So excuse me if I stop being polite to childish mods.

#131
Soruyao

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Satanicfirewraith wrote...
He had no right to rename the thread either yet he did.
He had changed to "I dont know how to play as a vanguard"
Cept I know how to play it, it just sucks. Plain and simple.
BW took a great class and ruined it... (not the only thing they ruined in ME 2)
So excuse me if I stop being polite to childish mods.


It clearly doesn't suck, because there are a ton of videos where people kick ass with it.

If anything sucks, it's probably you.

#132
Inarai

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Satanicfirewraith wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Oh and javier, FYI I know how to play the god damn vanguard, but to me it plays like ****!
BW ruined Vanguard, And I dont care if you agree or not, in my eyes they took what was a great class in ME 1 and took a big warm wet **** on the class.


When you say stupid garbage like this, that's when people start thinking that you are a joke.


He had no right to rename the thread either yet he did.
He had changed to "I dont know how to play as a vanguard"
Cept I know how to play it, it just sucks. Plain and simple.
BW took a great class and ruined it... (not the only thing they ruined in ME 2)
So excuse me if I stop being polite to childish mods.


The class is not the issue.

#133
ImperialOperative

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Satanicfirewraith wrote...

He had no right to rename the thread either yet he did.
He had changed to "I dont know how to play as a vanguard"
Cept I know how to play it, it just sucks. Plain and simple.
BW took a great class and ruined it... (not the only thing they ruined in ME 2)
So excuse me if I stop being polite to childish mods.


Sure, blame everything but yourself.  The simple fact of the matter is that plenty of people are great at the class, and a lot of people love playing as a Vanguard.  You aren't good at this game, face the facts bub.

#134
newcomplex

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Satanicfirewraith wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Oh and javier, FYI I know how to play the god damn vanguard, but to me it plays like ****!
BW ruined Vanguard, And I dont care if you agree or not, in my eyes they took what was a great class in ME 1 and took a big warm wet **** on the class.


When you say stupid garbage like this, that's when people start thinking that you are a joke.


He had no right to rename the thread either yet he did.
He had changed to "I dont know how to play as a vanguard"
Cept I know how to play it, it just sucks. Plain and simple.
BW took a great class and ruined it... (not the only thing they ruined in ME 2)
So excuse me if I stop being polite to childish mods.


Your stupid.    Your opinions are stupid.    

#135
Soruyao

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newcomplex wrote...

Your stupid.    Your opinions are stupid.    


I agree with you 100%, but I have to fix this!


newcomplex wrote...

You're stupid.    Your opinions are stupid.    


I'm sorry ;-;

#136
AlphaJarmel

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ImperialOperative wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Well to be fair shockwave is situational, charge is useful only if you're using Claymore or the Eviscerator, pull serves pretty much the same purpose as shockwave, and inferno is a crappy version of ap on insanity.  Yes he exagerated.  However again he does have some valid concerns and I very much hope that a mod wasn't an ass and changed the title.


If you're a vanguard and you aren't using a shotgun, you're doing something wrong.


You mean the parts where they force you to use long guns like the start of Grunt's mission or the bubble in the suicide mission?

#137
T0paze

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People have already found ways how to use Charge offensively on higher difficulty levels.

I can only add that Charge also happens to be a great tactical and defensive power, which adds a lot of versatility to the Vanguard. That's how I used this power, actually, since I'm not so fond of close combat.

In fact, even in Mass Effect 1, one of the most effective Vanguard builds didn't use shotguns, relying on pistols instead.

Modifié par T0paze, 23 février 2010 - 03:32 .


#138
ImperialOperative

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AlphaJarmel wrote...

You mean the parts where they force you to use long guns like the start of Grunt's mission or the bubble in the suicide mission?


Of course not, and of course it's to whatever your preference is, but shotgun is a vanguard staple and if you're playing the class you should be using it somewhat.  Maybe not so much in ME1, but in ME2 they made shotguns much more viable and imo the most fun weapon to use in the game.

Modifié par ImperialOperative, 23 février 2010 - 03:33 .


#139
awpdevil

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I just did my first insanity run ever, on a vanguard to see what all this crap was about and if anything, I feel the class is more OP then broken. Garrus' recruit mission would be one of the examples I would use for the class being OP, and the collector missions are a joke with the class.



I'm sure others have said time and time again, enemy awareness, and position are the two things you need to get down first, once that is taken care of, theres nothing to stop you, and if there is, you whittle it down before going in.



If I was going to complain at all about the class, it would be the fact that I no longer have my carnage ability, but even that isn't really needed, I just loved the ability.

#140
addiction21

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newcomplex wrote...


Your stupid.    Your opinions are stupid.    


"I think we have different value systems." —Arthur
"Well mine's better." —Ford

#141
EternalWolfe

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Satanicfirewraith wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Oh and javier, FYI I know how to play the god damn vanguard, but to me it plays like ****!
BW ruined Vanguard, And I dont care if you agree or not, in my eyes they took what was a great class in ME 1 and took a big warm wet **** on the class.


When you say stupid garbage like this, that's when people start thinking that you are a joke.


He had no right to rename the thread either yet he did.
He had changed to "I dont know how to play as a vanguard"
Cept I know how to play it, it just sucks. Plain and simple.
BW took a great class and ruined it... (not the only thing they ruined in ME 2)
So excuse me if I stop being polite to childish mods.


Evidence shows otherwise.  Opinion does not equate to fact, dislike does not equate to sucking.
Lack of politness evident long before appearance of mod.  Seems to be personality trait.
Vanguard has flaws - unavoidable consequence for all games.  Nothing perfect.  But does not 'suck'.
Perfectly playable.  High-risk, High-reward class structure - give it all or give in.

#142
LoweGear

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Having played Soldier first, Infiltrator second and then Vanguard on third playthrough all on Hardcore difficulty... no, I don't think they ruined Vanguards. I also played Vanguards in ME1, and while effective they felt too... cookie cutter to me. It's pretty much a Soldier with biotics, which wasn't bad, but not terribly interesting to me either.

Vanguards on ME2 on the other hand are truly the definition of "high-risk high-reward" that's been touted since its reveal. It's true that you may die a lot when using the Vanguard, but as with all of ME2's classes most times one dies as a Vanguard because of mistakes they make, rather than anything particularly wrong with the class. If you attempt to Charge a group of 3 or more attackers in an open space with no nearby cover of course you're going to get killed.If you use Shockwave on a group of people with defenses then obviously it's not going to do much. But use Charge on a lone enemy behind cover on the rear lines and you can outflank enemy forces much easier, and in conjunction with using anti-armor abilities like Incendiary Ammo, Shockwave is pretty good against hordes, like Husks, which I have difficulty dealing with as other classes.

Vanguards in ME2 are most effective when played with tactical thinking in mind, and once someone does get a hang of the Vanguard playstyle you can actually clear out alot of battles much, much faster than with a Soldier or Infiltrator due to the combination of speed using biotic Charge with the high damage from its abilities + shotguns - I was rather shocked myself when I discovered I could finish battles in a quarter of the time with the proper tactics compared to Soldiers or Infiltrators. For example, for Archangel's recruitment mission I actually managed to close the right door shutter simply by using charge on the Vorcha at the very rear, killing him with a shotgun blast and running for the shutter, which took me less than a minute. As with everything a Vanguard does, it's a risky move, and would've killed me had I hit a snag from an enemy or something else, but the immense satisfaction from pulling off such a move is something I hardly feel from Soldiers or Infiltrators. And you can't simply use your guns and biotics as a Vanguard: you have to basically use every single advantage you have, like melee. In fact, melee is one of the Vanguard's best friends, since you'll be spending a lot of time up close and personal with your enemy, and it allows you to offset the reload/firing time of the shotgun (no, I am not talking about the reload trick mentioned many times here, which I have never successfully done in any of my playthroughs). The combination of Charge, then shoot, then melee, followed up by either another shot or another melee bash is a very powerful combination that kills alot of enemies fast (it's fun killing Krogans up close with that particular combo).

Of course there are situations that Vanguards are bad at: like enemies located in places that Biotic charge can't reach, like verandas or perches where they can simply rain down fire on you. However, that's why you adapt your tactics to match: I haven't found an enemy that was unreachable by charge that couldn't be reached by my Heavy Pistol or my squadmate's abilities. It's not like all the other classes don't have their deficiencies either (for example getting flanked in melee as an Infiltrator).

Hence the essence of the Vanguard: It's a bit harder to play than the other classes, but once you get the hang of it the initial frustration is rewarded many times over by the sheer power you dish out on your enemies and how fast you can kill them. It's also fun being able to zip around the battlefield like Superman using biotic charge, something you can't really replicate with the other classes.

Modifié par LoweGear, 23 février 2010 - 04:00 .


#143
Acero Azul

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Vanguard in ME1 is my all time favorite, in this game the infiltrator rocks and i am getting into the vanguard. Not sure if it is as good, but i still like it.

#144
Commander Darmok

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I'm playing the vanguard on insanity, and I gotta tell you, it's insane! That being said, I effectively use ALL of my powers (charge included,) and I'll repeat what everyone else is saying - it's not the class that's broken.

#145
Guest_MrHimuraChan_*

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EternalWolfe wrote...

Evidence shows otherwise.  Opinion does not equate to fact, dislike does not equate to sucking.
Lack of politness evident long before appearance of mod.  Seems to be personality trait.
Vanguard has flaws - unavoidable consequence for all games.  Nothing perfect.  But does not 'suck'.
Perfectly playable.  High-risk, High-reward class structure - give it all or give in.


Why do i read your post in Dr. Mordin's voice? @_@

#146
Guest_Guest12345_*

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MrHimuraChan wrote...

EternalWolfe wrote...

Evidence shows otherwise.  Opinion does not equate to fact, dislike does not equate to sucking.
Lack of politness evident long before appearance of mod.  Seems to be personality trait.
Vanguard has flaws - unavoidable consequence for all games.  Nothing perfect.  But does not 'suck'.
Perfectly playable.  High-risk, High-reward class structure - give it all or give in.


Why do i read your post in Dr. Mordin's voice? @_@


i read it the first time normally without a second thought. after you said this i can hear it in mordin's voice perfectly.

#147
AlphaJarmel

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It's a new trend people are doing.

#148
LoweGear

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Proof that Mordin is indeed quite awesome

#149
Schneidend

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Whoops. Didn't realize this was a Satanicfirewraith thread. I think we'll need some visual aids...



Kronner's Vanguard videos:







Sinosleep's Vanguard videos:







Aaaaaand... /thread

#150
Sith Reaper

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Great video in the second post.