251 réponses à ce sujet

[mundus66]

Ser Rune wrote...

Alright, all that being said, the ME2 Vanguard plays largely different than in ME1 as does the Adept, unfortunately BW hyped some of the classes way too much on their videos and some people could be disappointed when they actually played them, especially if they played the first game and already come with a set of expectations. To me the Vanguard is a powerful class when played a very specific way, which really doesn't appeal much to me, I would rather use its staple class power as I had envisioned when I first saw the class video. Does this make the class horrible? Not to me, but it certainly isn't as fun as I would have liked. Others might love it, it has nothing to do with skill but with personal preference.

It does not play that different from a vanguard in me1 actually until you get high level and become a "biotic god". I think most people can agree, that shotgun and barrier is the way to go with vanguard on lower levels with a few throws and lifts here and there.  With charge we can do this more effectivly, which is a good thing. Now there are other people that didn't play this way at all and want the class to play like they played it. But remember that there are 5 other classes to pick from.

The vanguard is for me the thing i usually strive for in games, a class which is harder to pick up but pays of once you learned to play them. High risk, high reward.

Modifié par mundus66, 23 février 2010 - 07:05 .

[congokurtz]

The Vanguard is by far the class I enjoyed the most. The soldier and sentinel were pretty good, the adept was challenging in its own way, but the vanguard is pure adrenalin and excitement. Anyone who thinks charge is useless is doing something very very wrong. If you are playing on Veteran or lower shockwave is incredibly useful, Hardcore or Insanity shockwave is more situational but certainly not useless (blow up husks after striping their armor, or blow up explosive tanks). In terms of learning curve I would say the adept has a much higher learning curve in terms of knowing when to use which powers based on enemy defenses and cooldown timers. The biggest leason to learn with charge is looking to see where your cover is before you charge. Otherwise:

Charge

Shotgun

face punch

shotgun

repeat

[ShuMaKisO]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

, Charge is utterly pointless,

Thats where I stopped and knew that you just fail

[Serenum]

mundus66 wrote...

It does not play that different from a vanguard in me1 actually until you get high level and become a "biotic god". I think most people can agree, that shotgun and barrier is the way to go with vanguard on lower levels with a few throws and lifts here and there.  With charge we can do this more effectivly, which is a good thing. Now there are other people that didn't play this way at all and want the class to play like they played it. But remember that there are 5 other classes to pick from.

The vanguard is for me the thing i usually strive for in games, a class which is harder to pick up but pays of once you learned to play them. High risk, high reward.

Charge does not equate lift+throw, when you factor in the global cooldowns the difference in regards to power usage is even more significant for biotic classes. In itself Charge already changes entirely how a Vanguard would feel and be played in ME1 independently of style and preferences, this skill allows you to effectively close the gap between any enemy which you couldn't in ME1.

5 other classes to pick also doesn't equate to playing the class that one wants which is the Vanguard. Should the Vanguard cater to everyone's desire and be the class that all wish it to be? Not possible, way too many opinions around it, but a compromise between what was familiar in ME1 and with the new changes to ME2 could have been achieved. In my opinion that is not the case in ME2, the class still is fun and I have played it through and beat Insanity with it, the only remaining thing from ME1 for me is the Shotgun spec and Close-Quarters style of combat which is the archetype of the class. class Biotics suffer from the changes to the powers but are still usable situationally, Charge being the bread and butter with Pull as a great addition at higher difficulties since a measure of CC might be needed at times, otherwise once an enemy is down to the Health bar you might as well punch or shotgun him in the face and be done with it faster and more efficiently.

[Serenum]

congokurtz wrote...
Charge
Shotgun
face punch
shotgun
repeat

These simplistic approaches are waht bored me with teh gameplay in ME2. I fully agree with you and that is the bread and butter of the Vanguard as Warp+Singularity is the Adept's weapon of choice.

Unfortunately that gets really old really fast for me, gone are the times of tactically having to choose and use specific powers for specific situations, I wish global cooldowns were not implemented the way they were as well as resistances. I am certainly not in the camp of reverting to the Biotic Gods that Adepts were in ME1 as well as what Vanguards could be, but it would have been fantastic to see more of compromise with the implementation of Biotics and Resistances in ME2.

Still playable, just not as fun and satisfying. The shooter aspects trumpled the power usage this time around, very fun shooter mechanics in comparison to ME1 even though I would still prefer to have the overheat mechanic rather than ammo, and not the crazy Spectre type of overheating which was non-existent but rather something in between.

[congokurtz]

Ser Rune wrote...

congokurtz wrote...
Charge
Shotgun
face punch
shotgun
repeat

These simplistic approaches are waht bored me with teh gameplay in ME2. I fully agree with you and that is the bread and butter of the Vanguard as Warp+Singularity is the Adept's weapon of choice.

Unfortunately that gets really old really fast for me, gone are the times of tactically having to choose and use specific powers for specific situations, I wish global cooldowns were not implemented the way they were as well as resistances. I am certainly not in the camp of reverting to the Biotic Gods that Adepts were in ME1 as well as what Vanguards could be, but it would have been fantastic to see more of compromise with the implementation of Biotics and Resistances in ME2.

Still playable, just not as fun and satisfying. The shooter aspects trumpled the power usage this time around, very fun shooter mechanics in comparison to ME1 even though I would still prefer to have the overheat mechanic rather than ammo, and not the crazy Spectre type of overheating which was non-existent but rather something in between.

I don't disagree with what you're saying here about power tactics, but I feel that there is a great deal of tactics invlolved with reguard to postitioning/target choice in addition to squadmate powers and focus fire.  Then there are the fights that don't really allow you to charge at will like heavy mechs and scions.  I liked the simplicity of knowing that your charge combo is devestating but also risky, so you have to be smart in how you set it up.  But I can see how the repetitiveness of the class could be a turn off to some.

[didymos1120]

Ser Rune wrote...

congokurtz wrote...
Charge
Shotgun
face punch
shotgun
repeat

These simplistic approaches are waht bored me with teh gameplay in ME2.

To adapt the old joke:

"Doc, it's really boring when I just keep doing this incessantly."

"So, stop doing that."

[AtreiyaN7]

The fact that you fail at the class doesn't mean that the class sucks. It means that you suck.

[Serenum]

didymos1120 wrote...

To adapt the old joke:

"Doc, it's really boring when I just keep doing this incessantly."

"So, stop doing that."

Doesn't make it more fun!

Anyway, all classes are fun to a certain extent in ME2, but the repetitiveness of the skill usage and the fact that they changed some of them dramatically - e.g. Singularity's radius of effect as well as radius of effect in general - makes the skill lose a lot of the uniqueness that it had in the first game.

Personally I like playing my Adept in a similar fashion as I would play ME1 - using all the biotics at my disposal, but sometimes it would have simply been easier to shoot the enemy in the face rather than Pull+Throw combo him...

Charge is a especially deceiving skill in that it can trick you in believing that you can use it as you would any other power in the previous game. As many have stated already, it is a tactically challenging skill that requires timing, positioning and battlefield awareness to be used effectively and in my opinion that's where most of the complaints stem from. Especially at lower levels when cooldowns are not the best and the effects are diminished. Once you hit Heavy Charge and Champion/Nemesis cooldowns though you can have a better time with it. Ah, another thing that I would assume might be hindering some folks is that to be truly effective in Charging away in ME2 you should be makign use of copious amounts of elbow smashing in the enemies, melee is a must for this class.

[Balerion84]

Charge is awesome. Period. 

[banshee768]

To the clueless OP: 'Kool' is neither a word or an argument. Well, in all fairness it's a brand of cigarettes, but I doubt you know or care about that. And, like pretty much everyone else said (get the picture yet?), you're doing it wrong.

[Soruyao]

I don't understand why people complain a class is weak and don't just lower the difficulty when they're playing that class.

If a class is hard, and you don't want to struggle, lower the difficulty.  Who cares if one classes hardcore is another classes insanity, if you get the same amount of challenge?  If anything, it means people who like challenge have a way to challenge themselves past what the "better" class would offer.

Actually, I do understand it.  It's all epeen.  "I am the greatest game player in the history of the world, so if I die it is the game or classes fault.  I don't want to lower my difficulty because that would be me admitting that I'm not good enough to play the hardest difficulty, so I will just complain on the forum and beg for buffs to the class so that I can beat the game easily with my ego intact!"

[AlphaJarmel]

Schneidend wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Again it's not just one person but rather a bunch.  I would deem that a large people having problems understanding how to use the class would justify the term "high learning curve".

Most of these threads to which you're referring are filled with three or four people crying about how the Vanguard is terrible and about twice as many people telling them the Vanguard is fine.

Biotics can't CC entire rooms for minutes at a time any more. No crap. That's intentional. It doesn't mean these classes have an impenetrable learning curve.

I can link a bunch more threads not to mention the huge thread on biotics.  Again that is a high learning curve.  I'm not saying the class is crap but it does have a high learning curve and is harder to use on the higher difficulties.  Jesus how many threads do you see how about people teaching other people how to use the infiltrator or soldier properly?  I think I hear crickets somewhere.

[Soruyao]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Again it's not just one person but rather a bunch.  I would deem that a large people having problems understanding how to use the class would justify the term "high learning curve".

Most of these threads to which you're referring are filled with three or four people crying about how the Vanguard is terrible and about twice as many people telling them the Vanguard is fine.

Biotics can't CC entire rooms for minutes at a time any more. No crap. That's intentional. It doesn't mean these classes have an impenetrable learning curve.

I can link a bunch more threads not to mention the huge thread on biotics.  Again that is a high learning curve.  I'm not saying the class is crap but it does have a high learning curve and is harder to use on the higher difficulties.  Jesus how many threads do you see how about people teaching other people how to use the infiltrator or soldier properly?  I think I hear crickets somewhere.

I have to ask you this:  Is it -bad- that some classes have higher difficulty curves than others?  Does it make the class "worse"?   I personally enjoy a challenge and therefore have much more fun playing on the vanguard than say, the soldier.   I'd argue that many other people feel the same way.

Why must everyone play every class on insanity?

[AlphaJarmel]

Soruyao wrote...
I have to ask you this:  Is it -bad- that some classes have higher difficulty curves than others?  Does it make the class "worse"?   I personally enjoy a challenge and therefore have much more fun playing on the vanguard than say, the soldier.   I'd argue that many other people feel the same way.

Why must everyone play every class on insanity?

I didn't say it was bad but just something that exists.

[Soruyao]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Soruyao wrote...
I have to ask you this:  Is it -bad- that some classes have higher difficulty curves than others?  Does it make the class "worse"?   I personally enjoy a challenge and therefore have much more fun playing on the vanguard than say, the soldier.   I'd argue that many other people feel the same way.

Why must everyone play every class on insanity?

I didn't say it was bad but just something that exists.

Okay, fair enough.  I don't think anyone would disagree with you that the difficulty curve is different between classes.  However, this does not mean that the class is "bad", it just means you need to be a slightly more skilled or informed player to play well on insanity mode.   This is a good thing.

However, there's nobody forcing you to play on insanity, and insanity is supposed to be hard anyway.  (If insanity is easy for any class, then it's not tuned right, imo)

[Habelo]

Please stop with the "complain about anything and you must suck at it".



After the new patch the vangaurds got a new buff that pretty much made the whole problem go away imo.



Thank you bioware.



ps. maybe there should be like a contructive forum about mass effect that only like old school neverwinter nights member are allowed in and trolls gets banned on sight?

[Soruyao]

Habelo wrote...

Please stop with the "complain about anything and you must suck at it".

After the new patch the vangaurds got a new buff that pretty much made the whole problem go away imo.

Thank you bioware.

ps. maybe there should be like a contructive forum about mass effect that only like old school neverwinter nights member are allowed in and trolls gets banned on sight?

Wait what?  A vanguard buff?  I don't remember reading anything like that in the patch notes.  Is this a new development?

[ezeruz]

Lord Coake wrote...
Grab an eviserator, strap on your heviest armor, and get your human cannonball mojo going.

Amen brother/sister

[Habelo]

Soruyao wrote...

Habelo wrote...

Please stop with the "complain about anything and you must suck at it".

After the new patch the vangaurds got a new buff that pretty much made the whole problem go away imo.

Thank you bioware.

ps. maybe there should be like a contructive forum about mass effect that only like old school neverwinter nights member are allowed in and trolls gets banned on sight?

Wait what?  A vanguard buff?  I don't remember reading anything like that in the patch notes.  Is this a new development?

Now when you charge you get a temporary boost in barrier, or was that one there before? :S

[i7206]

Soruyao wrote...
Actually, I do understand it.  It's all epeen.  "I am the greatest game player in the history of the world, so if I die it is the game or classes fault.  I don't want to lower my difficulty because that would be me admitting that I'm not good enough to play the hardest difficulty, so I will just complain on the forum and beg for buffs to the class so that I can beat the game easily with my ego intact!"

Nailed it.

[javierabegazo]

Alright, I'm moving this to the class Builds Forum

[didymos1120]

Habelo wrote...

Now when you charge you get a temporary boost in barrier, or was that one there before? :S

Umm, that's always been part of the ability, starting at Rank 2 .  Read its description.  If it didn't do that, you could never spam it. You'd just die.

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 février 2010 - 02:44 .

[phordicus]

i disliked ME1 vanguard and favored infiltrator, but i am all about ME2's vg. teleport+melee prowess in an rpg/shooter hybrid? i get shivers just thinking about it. imo, it's easily the most cerebral class tactically; you can't just spam 1 or 2 abilities to get through every battle. charge targets and cover have to be instantly recognized and instinctively reacted upon. definitely not the class for you if you lean way back in your chair sippin' a mojito.