177 réponses à ce sujet

[KPnuts123]

cruc1al wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Best Narrative based shooter out there? Probably. RPG? I don't think so, no.

It's an rpg. Don't kid yourself.

It's a semi-RPG, because the Role that you're Playing is defined and the ways in which you can change your character and your role in the universe is extremely limited. There's a defined path to what your character will do, and the only thing you can influence is the way you do it (paragon/renegade). Also, you are presented with choices (e.g. who to recruit or who to get loyal), but you have no control over what choices will be presented in the first place. As Bioware has said, it's Shepard's story. Not yours.

That description could be used for every RPG game out there, as they all have a defined path as to what you do in the game.  The only real aspect for you to do is managing your Weapons and armor.

[Tassigny]

Hello,



I agree with all points with the OP. Mass Effect 2 is the best game I have EVER played, counting Fallout, Oblivion, Fable II, Halo 123, Gears of war and other great games in either RPG or shooter genre.



Was makes Mass Effect 2 stand out as unique ? Dialogue, mature style, dramatic storyline, excellent and varied game-play, emotional engagement, dense and coherent universe and impact of player's choices on the said universe.



I had to stop playing Fable II when I noticed the only impact of my decisions were to create a town or not, while in Fallout 3, well, except for blowing up a city, you have no endgame choice.

[Oawa]

KPnuts123 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Best Narrative based shooter out there? Probably. RPG? I don't think so, no.

It's an rpg. Don't kid yourself.

It's a semi-RPG, because the Role that you're Playing is defined and the ways in which you can change your character and your role in the universe is extremely limited. There's a defined path to what your character will do, and the only thing you can influence is the way you do it (paragon/renegade). Also, you are presented with choices (e.g. who to recruit or who to get loyal), but you have no control over what choices will be presented in the first place. As Bioware has said, it's Shepard's story. Not yours.

That description could be used for every RPG game out there, as they all have a defined path as to what you do in the game.  The only real aspect for you to do is managing your Weapons and armor.

Very good point.

Modifié par Oawa, 23 février 2010 - 01:08 .

[Torhagen]

I have to disagree to many RPG features are missing for that

[Oawa]

Torhagen wrote...

I have to disagree to many RPG features are missing for that

Like?

[wizardryforever]

ammit23 wrote...

Michoss wrote...

Everyone on this forum who is whining about 'how ME2 is shooter, not a RPG' seems to think 'RPG=Game when you are knight and you kill orcz and dragonz and save the world'. you know. Orthodox

I would disagree, I personally haven't ever played a DND-style until DA:O.  To some, RPG is nothing more that a game that focuses almost exclusively on character development.  You end up with a strong emtional attachment to many of the NPC's.  For me, and from what I've heard also a lot of others, ME2 just didn't give you that same level of attachment.  Doesn't mean it wasn't a ton of fun to play and a great game all around, just not as powerful as ME1 and all-around defies categorization.  It's just what it is.... it's ME2!

I agree with this.  Just one minor caveat.  DA:O isn't DnD, in any way other than they are both fantasy.  If you want the DnD experience and don't want to play the real thing (some people aren't into tabletop games) I would suggest Neverwinter Nights, and especially Neverwinter Nights 2.  Neverwinter Nights has the added perk of being made by Bioware, so it must have something going for it, right? :happy:

[ZennExile]

Brianalot Curren wrote...

I just finished the game and wanted to post a few comments generally on the game.  I have to say the game isn't perfect, close though.  Bioware has created the perfect RPG experience.  This is the first RPG that allows you to actually roleplay and have a different experience in game other than in your own head.  I seriously believe every RPG after this will HAVE to be compared to ME2.

Out of every squad based RPG, this is the first one that actually accounts for each member of the crew at the end of game.  And who you select for what actually has a bearing on the outcome.  Now all of you obviosuly already knew that, but the reason why Im bringing it up is that this is the first game to do it and do it successfully.  Take KOTOR for example, you take a team into the last mission and the rest just basically disappear and not brought up again.

This is the easily the best written game I have ever played.  The dialouge is perfect, I mean PERFECT.  Everything from the Illium bachelor party, to the conversations between the Illusive man, once again every game has to compare itself to ME2.  The emotions showed on the faces were spot on, and especially like all of the little grins Shepard sneaks in convos.  All consersations with squad mates follow a flow as you gradually get to know them better.  My only beef is the one romance I played, Miranda, doesn't have a "debriefing" like convo after they do the deed after the last mission.

All of your decisions have a consequence.  ALL RPGS made over the last 10 years have told us that, but this is the first RPG to actually deliver that promise.  Every quest in ME1 have an after effect.  Even as small as an "email" from people you dealt with in Me1 show that they really paid attention to detail.  The CEO of Bioware has priomised that ME3 will have widely different endings based on your decisions have got me excited, and I know they should be able to pull it off.

Finnally, ever since BG2, I thought that they only way to have a perfect RPG is to have something that could last 100-200 hours and all of these quests make it a btter RPG.  I never believed in the short 30-40 hour RPG experience.  Bioware since NWN have been working on this type of RPG and has perfected it.  30 hours of KOTOR or JADE Empire are boring compared ME2.  The trick to me changing my opinion after ME2 was the fact that in 30 hours that took me to beat the game, not ONE quest was like the other.  They really packed in a very diverse set of fun and quick, entertaining quests.  Even a quest like turning back on the magnetoshpere for a colony was a good change of pace.

Just a couple of points.

Ok just so you know, this game is a Thrid Person Shooter more than anything else.  So before you pull yer "ZOMG BEST RPG EVAH" card you should probably rethink why you like it and if in fact the reasons you like it have anything to do with actual RPG elements in the game.   By your logic here Borderlands is a much better "RPG" than ME2...

The only reason this game even fits in the RPG category is because of the dialogue.  Everything else is just points and loots and really doesn't tie the experience to RPG elements of any kind.  Also 90% of the choices in the game have no "effect" on the game.  Sure there's a neat piece of dialogue for it but in the end there is really no difference.

But yeah best RPG ever...  not so much.  I can say best action based combat in a 3rd person Shooter with RPG elements.  But that is about as "best" as this game can get.

[Oawa]

wizardryforever wrote...

ammit23 wrote...

Michoss wrote...

Everyone on this forum who is whining about 'how ME2 is shooter, not a RPG' seems to think 'RPG=Game when you are knight and you kill orcz and dragonz and save the world'. you know. Orthodox

I would disagree, I personally haven't ever played a DND-style until DA:O.  To some, RPG is nothing more that a game that focuses almost exclusively on character development.  You end up with a strong emtional attachment to many of the NPC's.  For me, and from what I've heard also a lot of others, ME2 just didn't give you that same level of attachment.  Doesn't mean it wasn't a ton of fun to play and a great game all around, just not as powerful as ME1 and all-around defies categorization.  It's just what it is.... it's ME2!

I agree with this.  Just one minor caveat.  DA:O isn't DnD, in any way other than they are both fantasy.  If you want the DnD experience and don't want to play the real thing (some people aren't into tabletop games) I would suggest Neverwinter Nights, and especially Neverwinter Nights 2.  Neverwinter Nights has the added perk of being made by Bioware, so it must have something going for it, right? :happy:

The KOTOR games were also based on the DnD ruleset.  2.0 or 2.5 iirc.

[Lord Atlia]

I both agree and disagree with the OP. ME2 is defiantly going to set a standard in the video game based role playing experience, the only other game that games close is Dragon Age Origins. Dragon Age Origins would beat out ME2 in my mind had they not given us a silent protagonist which kind of killed the immersion for me as I had to fill in some gaps in my head. Also a vocal protagonist makes it is easier for anyone watching you play to understand what is going on because it is not a one sided conversation. The story is a middle section so I can see how that could somehow effect peoples enjoyment of the series, I myself read long book series so I'm used to entire books being devoted to fleshing out the cast and world as opposed to having defined beginnings, middles and ends.



As for some dissenters on the idea of Role Playing Games, yes ME2 is a RPG because it has Role Playing and Game aspects to it. D&D used a system developed for old style table top war games and for a few decades every RPG simply cut and pasted the game play basics while removing the role playing. Bioware keeps the role playing intact in all their games but sometimes uses traditional game play (DA:O) or experiments with new game play (ME1 and ME2). Role Playing has been around for centuries but wasn't used to refer to stats, character customization, and loot until the last three or four decades.

[Oawa]

Lord Atlia wrote...

I both agree and disagree with the OP. ME2 is defiantly going to set a standard in the video game based role playing experience, the only other game that games close is Dragon Age Origins. Dragon Age Origins would beat out ME2 in my mind had they not given us a silent protagonist which kind of killed the immersion for me as I had to fill in some gaps in my head. Also a vocal protagonist makes it is easier for anyone watching you play to understand what is going on because it is not a one sided conversation. The story is a middle section so I can see how that could somehow effect peoples enjoyment of the series, I myself read long book series so I'm used to entire books being devoted to fleshing out the cast and world as opposed to having defined beginnings, middles and ends.

As for some dissenters on the idea of Role Playing Games, yes ME2 is a RPG because it has Role Playing and Game aspects to it. D&D used a system developed for old style table top war games and for a few decades every RPG simply cut and pasted the game play basics while removing the role playing. Bioware keeps the role playing intact in all their games but sometimes uses traditional game play (DA:O) or experiments with new game play (ME1 and ME2). Role Playing has been around for centuries but wasn't used to refer to stats, character customization, and loot until the last three or four decades.

bah fail....

just wanted to add.  Stats, loot, levels imo were initially just used to show physical character progression.  They don't have to be there for a game to be labled as an RPG.

Modifié par Oawa, 23 février 2010 - 01:21 .

[TheLostGenius]

Though I would go as far to say that ME2 is an improvement over ME1, I'd say that in many ways ME1 was the better game. It was so full of innovation, just so happened that weapon customization was micro intensive. I enjoyed that actually, it was fun to tinker with the weapons and have such control over level progression. They could have reduced that aspect, but what we have in ME2 is almost laughable as far as customization is possible. The only possible customization is SUPERFICIAL changes, or minor alterations.

[cruc1al]

KPnuts123 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

It's a semi-RPG, because the Role that you're Playing is defined and the ways in which you can change your character and your role in the universe is extremely limited. There's a defined path to what your character will do, and the only thing you can influence is the way you do it (paragon/renegade). Also, you are presented with choices (e.g. who to recruit or who to get loyal), but you have no control over what choices will be presented in the first place. As Bioware has said, it's Shepard's story. Not yours.

That description could be used for every RPG game out there, as they all have a defined path as to what you do in the game.  The only real aspect for you to do is managing your Weapons and armor.

Elder Scrolls Morrowind and Oblivion, Fallout 1, 2 and 3, are just a few examples of RPG's in which you can customize your character's story to the point of completely disregarding the main story of the game and still getting a full experience. Even in RPG's like Baldur's Gate II, the aspect of choice and defining your character is far greater than in ME2 (you can even become a vampire in BGII if I'm not mistaken). ME2 is just too linear to be considered more than a semi-RPG shooter (not saying it's bad because of that, it's great).

To be honest, defining what counts as an RPG is probably difficult because RPG elements are continously variable, not discretely. You can have no character customisation, a little bit, a bit more, even more, lots, etc. At what point is that part of the game considered RPG or not RPG?

Modifié par cruc1al, 23 février 2010 - 01:31 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

KPnuts123 wrote...

I agree with you OP on everything bar one point. Not all RPG's will be compared to ME2 only the western ones will be, as JRPG's are a completely different kettle of fish.

And fish, stink too..............

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Razor124 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...
ME2 has all these things. To label it a pure RPG is being too specific, but it IS an RPG. I agree with the OP, this game already has 150+ hours on it for me, and there's always new content being explored each playthrough.

150 hours?!?! What have you been doing, leaving your game on when you sleep?!?

I've beaten the game twice on easy, thrice on normal, once on hardcore, and once on insane... and even combined i'm not at that time! I did MOST of the optional quests and side-quests every playthrough!

What are you doing that's taken so long?!?!?

Probably like myself, enjoying the ride, and NOT, blasting away the game for speed sake.

[Oawa]

cruc1al wrote...

KPnuts123 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

It's a semi-RPG, because the Role that you're Playing is defined and the ways in which you can change your character and your role in the universe is extremely limited. There's a defined path to what your character will do, and the only thing you can influence is the way you do it (paragon/renegade). Also, you are presented with choices (e.g. who to recruit or who to get loyal), but you have no control over what choices will be presented in the first place. As Bioware has said, it's Shepard's story. Not yours.

That description could be used for every RPG game out there, as they all have a defined path as to what you do in the game.  The only real aspect for you to do is managing your Weapons and armor.

Elder Scrolls Morrowind and Oblivion, Fallout 1, 2 and 3, are just a few examples of RPG's in which you can customize your character's story to the point of completely disregarding the main story of the game and still getting a full experience. Even in RPG's like Baldur's Gate II, the aspect of choice and defining your character is far greater than in ME2 (you can even become a vampire in BGII if I'm not mistaken). ME2 is just too linear to be considered more than a semi-RPG shooter (not saying it's bad because of that, it's great).

To be honest, defining what counts as an RPG is probably difficult because RPG elements are continously variable, not discretely. You can have no character customisation, a little bit, a bit more, even more, lots, etc. At what point is that part of the game considered RPG or not RPG?

Perhaps Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout should be more described as "sims", than RPG's? Since you're doing more than just playing a role, you're simulating a life.

If ME 2 is too linear to be considered more than a semi RPG, all FF games, any JRPG, and most older DnD based games should be considered semi-RPG's as well.

It really is all just a matter of perspective, so I feel a bit petty posting my retort.  Semi-RPG just seems to come of as condescending I think, Hybrid RPG sounds a bit better imo.

Modifié par Oawa, 23 février 2010 - 01:44 .

[MassEffect762]

I'm going to have to disagree with the OP.



The RPG aspects were too lacking for my tastes, they basically "rearranged the furniture" of the ME universe in a style that is not to my liking.(too simple)



Hell I'm a casual gamer and if ME2 wasn't part of the trilogy but rather a stand alone I'd have sold it by now.(ME1 is still the only reason I own a darn 360)

[Serogon]

Amazing. A thread where the majority of people realize that an RPG isn't about dice rolls and grinding for loot. I'm Commander Shepherd, and this is my favorite thread on the Citadel.

[Kristofer1]

 To bad its barely a RPG... 

[Oawa]

I guess I just don't understand why so many people are adamant about holding onto the "old ideals" of an RPG.  It's more RPG than I think a lot of people are willing to give it credit....why?

Modifié par Oawa, 23 février 2010 - 01:59 .

[bjdbwea]

Just replace "RPG" with "game" in your OP. It may be a good game, but what little is left of actual RPG elements after all that dumbing down and cutting back is certainly not spectacular. As far as story and presentation, characters, conversations and decisions are concerned: ME 1 set the standard there, it blew everything else away. ME 2 unfortunately failed to match let alone beat its predecessor, which is a sad truth indeed. The only points where ME 2 really outshines ME 1 are the visuals, especially of course the amazing facial animations. But that's about it.

[KPnuts123]

Oawa wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

KPnuts123 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

It's a semi-RPG, because the Role that you're Playing is defined and the ways in which you can change your character and your role in the universe is extremely limited. There's a defined path to what your character will do, and the only thing you can influence is the way you do it (paragon/renegade). Also, you are presented with choices (e.g. who to recruit or who to get loyal), but you have no control over what choices will be presented in the first place. As Bioware has said, it's Shepard's story. Not yours.

That description could be used for every RPG game out there, as they all have a defined path as to what you do in the game.  The only real aspect for you to do is managing your Weapons and armor.

Elder Scrolls Morrowind and Oblivion, Fallout 1, 2 and 3, are just a few examples of RPG's in which you can customize your character's story to the point of completely disregarding the main story of the game and still getting a full experience. Even in RPG's like Baldur's Gate II, the aspect of choice and defining your character is far greater than in ME2 (you can even become a vampire in BGII if I'm not mistaken). ME2 is just too linear to be considered more than a semi-RPG shooter (not saying it's bad because of that, it's great).

To be honest, defining what counts as an RPG is probably difficult because RPG elements are continously variable, not discretely. You can have no character customisation, a little bit, a bit more, even more, lots, etc. At what point is that part of the game considered RPG or not RPG?

Perhaps Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout should be more described as "sims", than RPG's? Since you're doing more than just playing a role, you're simulating a life.

If ME 2 is too linear to be considered more than a semi RPG, all FF games, any JRPG, and most older DnD based games should be considered semi-RPG's as well.

It really is all just a matter of perspective, so I feel a bit petty posting my retort.  Semi-RPG just seems to come of as condescending I think, Hybrid RPG sounds a bit better imo.

Don't get me wrong I am a RPG player and have been ever since I watched the opening FMV of Final Fantasy VII.  All I was saying is that if you want to call ME2 a Semi RPG then every other RPG out there western or otherwise should also be called a Semi RPG.

In fact I think that the Hybrid RPG term is a better one myself and it does hand itself well to Fallout and ME.  To be honest we could sit here behind our computers and discuss/argue about what an RPG is and still not come up with a definitive definition of it.  I know others have tried in the past.  

I heard a podcast from 1up where they discussed this and even they couldn't come up with a definition of what is a RPG.

[MassEffect762]

Oawa wrote...

I guess I just don't understand why so many people are adamant about holding onto the "old ideals" of an RPG.  It's more RPG than I think a lot of people are willing to give it credit....why?

The honest anwser would be "different strokes for different folks".
Another honest input would be "influenceing" of bioware in regards to ME3.

It's all politics, those who care enough on either side will fight for what they believe.

I still don't understand why so many thought ME2 was all that and a bag of chips.(especially as a sequel)

[STBez]

I agree with OP. Though there are some improvements I would have made. I liked all the extra planet exploration and quests in ME1 better then ME2 (not a huge Mako fan and actually prefer the scanning in ME2). But yeah, more side quests and things to do. I loved the game and have done more then one playthough, but I didn't want it to end.

I do agree with MassEffect762 that the "refurbishing" was a bit too linear and simple.

Modifié par STBez, 23 février 2010 - 02:16 .

[RVonE]

Sphynx118 wrote...

wat

This.

[Hejhej1234]

This is my verdict:
Brilliant action RPG with an *exceptionally* well written story (both back- and -line)


If I could add anything it would be random encounters (on the galaxy map) as well as more gear.

Modifié par Hejhej1234, 23 février 2010 - 03:52 .