177 réponses à ce sujet

[Brianalot Curren]

Well, you I did say right off the bat that I didn't consider it a perfect GAME, I said it perfected the RPG; semantics I'm sure. The first "RPG" I have ever played was BG1 when I was 10 years old. And since then I have played almost every RPG released. But that really doesn't matter, that doesn't make me an expert or more knowledgable than somebody who played his/her first "RPG" last week. What I am saying is that I have played many so called RPGs and now I want to call them ARPG after ME2 (Attempt at a Roleplaying Game).



Everyone has their own def of what Role Playing is, and to be honest up until 2 weeks ago I thought it was all about having a paper doll and customizing weapons and armor and walking around for 100 hours delivering mail to some widowed mother and then spending 10 minutes walking back to the person after 5 load screens and saying I delivered it and then getting 10 gold peices or credits and a ring of health +2. And I got enjoyment out of that ( I still play Oblivion a couple times a month). But RPG to me stands for ROLE-PLAYING. It means I pretend to be somebody for a couple of hours and role-play decisions and actions. And I think it is very short sighted for people not to consider this a full fledged RPG. There has been NO rpg that I have ever played that has this amount of decisions that have had consequences that are felt throughout the game world. People actually live or die based on my decisions and there is some acknowledgement of it or some reverberations in the game world. Now of course they are still limited by the fact that they only have a DVD or in this case 2 DVDs to write dialogue.



Many of your have played BIoware games before, but after playing this ME2 I finnally realize what they have been working towards the last 10 years. A fully living and breathing world. This is closer to their goal. The story and dialogue like I said before are as close to perfect as I have ever seen. Once again, I'm not saying the game itself is perfect. But the RPG part of it is perfect. I have never been immersed in a game before like this one.



I just want to play a game that I feel like I'm in a movie and I control what happens in the movie. I don't feel like I'm in a movie when I spend and hour riding across the land by foot and killing random rats that suddenly attack me...need to rest to replintish my health and magic (I'm calling out morrowind/oblivion but I REALLY love them don't get me wrong, its just a different experience, I agree with one poster that it is more like a life simulator than anything else). I have never felt like I'm in a movie before where I can control the outcome. And personally, thats what I think is what a role-playing experience is. You can disagree and I respect your opinion.

[CHT87]

Brianalot Curren wrote...

Well, you I did say right off the bat...

Again.
This is what BW wanted to achieve with ME. In ME2 they just got rid of all the unnecessary garbage code that hung onto ME1 (who needs a hundred weapons if there are still only 2 models per type; Why  must a trained soldier - N7 - learn how to shoot a gun?!?!?! etc. pp.)

The only thing really buggin me is that charm and intimidation options are now dependent on your Paragon/Renegade stat. Thats just stupid.

[Jebel Krong]

CHT87 wrote...

The only thing really buggin me is that charm and intimidation options are now dependent on your Paragon/Renegade stat. Thats just stupid.

er, that was always the case.

[vigna]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Best Narrative based shooter out there? Probably. RPG? I don't think so, no.

^^This.

[CHT87]

Jebel Krong wrote...

CHT87 wrote...

The only thing really buggin me is that charm and intimidation options are now dependent on your Paragon/Renegade stat. Thats just stupid.

er, that was always the case.

In ME1 you could devote points to this and in NG+ these stats would keep at their level.
I loved to be able to take all the charm or intimidation optiones I wanted.

I really do not understand why it has to be dependent on the PAR/REN status at all. It just lessens the choices I have.

[ArticBeaver]

 Theres one thing I can think of that ME2 lacks, and thats a more manipulative/deceiving/lying approach
  that relies on a mix of charm and aggressiveness.

  Example:  On Ilium when Sheppard tries to find the one who murdered the Volus. 
  When entering the room and seeing Elnora ,(remember that Shep is there to investigate so it wouldn't
  be weird to do this):
 
  While Elnora talks about she's not one of them an manipulative option appears.
  -Shep : At ease Initiate ,[Pretends to hear something ] Dammit enforce the door, the justicar is still after us.
  -Elnora:  What?, Well to bad for you i'm..i'm only an initiate. I haven't even done anything that would..
  -Shep: *Mumbles to team member * All this trouble only because some idiot killed that Volus. 
  -Elnora: [Panicking ] I have have to get out of here! Open that door !
  -Shep : AHA!  -> Arrest or kill option from this point forward.

This type of dialogue type should be better for those who stays at a more neutral side in the game.
Because the game gets really tough if you don't follow one path more then another , thus making
the Role playing reward system flawed.  
 Only problem is that the dialogue options would be harder to write then P/R ones. 

[harrier25699]

 The Mass Effect franchise is developing nicely, and ME 2 is a great game but it seems to be having an identity crisis between shooter and RPG.  It has been dumbed down something awful in this incarnation, I assume to appeal to the masses.  That to me is not a recipe for perfection.  I have enjoyed this game immensely, but I can see it being so much more than it is.  Mass Effect is still underachieving against it's potential as an RPG.

There's so much more I can say that's good and bad about this game but at the end of the day if I want RPG perfection I'll go and play Final Fantasy.    Nothing in ME has moved me like the death of Aeris, or motivated me to spend a week breeding chocobos.  We got planet scanning and RIP Presley.

[cutthecameras]

DarthCaine wrote...

ME2 is a great game, but it's far from perfect. For one, there's lots of plot holes

I can think of very few obvious flaws with the game.
It was made by human beings, and it's nearly perfect imo. I'm willing to forgive any transgressions just because the characters in this game are so damn compelling.

Also I quoted this because I have yet to find any plot hole that didn't sound like pointless nitpicking. The story is solid enough. If you look hard enough you'll find a reason to discredit anything.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Glad you enjoyed the game OP! I agree with you on most parts and I have to say that ME2 is definitely the most I've enjoyed a game since... well, I guess Baldur's Gate 2. I thought Dragon Age: Origins was great too, but in the end, I gotta say ME2 felt like a better game.

CHT87 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

CHT87 wrote...

The only thing really buggin me is that charm and intimidation options are now dependent on your Paragon/Renegade stat. Thats just stupid.

er, that was always the case.

In ME1 you could devote points to this and in NG+ these stats would keep at their level.
I loved to be able to take all the charm or intimidation optiones I wanted.

I really do not understand why it has to be dependent on the PAR/REN status at all. It just lessens the choices I have.

The amount of points you could put in charm or intimidate was capped based on your Paragon/Renegade score in ME1, so it was in fact MORE restrictive. Unless you did NG+ I guess... but isn't that pretty much just cheating anyway?

I've gotten 100% paragon 80% renegade in ME2 on my third playthrough, which was enough to pass all but 2 renegade checks in the game that I know of.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 23 février 2010 - 03:38 .

[bjdbwea]

Brianalot Curren wrote...

But RPG to me stands for ROLE-PLAYING. It means I pretend to be somebody for a couple of hours and role-play decisions and actions. And I think it is very short sighted for people not to consider this a full fledged RPG. There has been NO rpg that I have ever played that has this amount of decisions that have had consequences that are felt throughout the game world. People actually live or die based on my decisions and there is some acknowledgement of it or some reverberations in the game world.

1. You have apparently never played ME 1. There you have even more and much more meaningful and far reaching decisions to make, which are usually also portrayed better than in ME 2.

2. Really, why are always those who don't really know RPGs so insistent they're playing one? I can only assume that to the younger audience the term sounds, like, cool. What's wrong with saying "I like shooter games with simple mechanics and a good story"? No harm done. But whatever, I don't really care if people want to call all their favourite games RPGs, I certainly won't argue endlessly why they're not, but it is odd that they spend so much time defending their (wrong) characterization of the game.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 23 février 2010 - 05:51 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Huh, if ME2 is an RPG, its definitely one of the most spineless and shallow RPGs Ive ever played in my life.

Id much rather say its a fairly average third person shooter. Like the dev talk of "streamlined" rather than "massively cut back and reduced into insignificance", it just sounds better that way.

Its a good game, with a poor plot, and far too much time devoted to shooting from behind cover, which left it as a completely forgettable experience for me. Just like Gears of War, which it clearly wants to ape in many respects.

ME1 made it into my top ten list of all time. ME2 didnt even come close to making it in.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 23 février 2010 - 03:47 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

bjdbwea wrote...
2. Really, why are always those who don't really know RPGs so insistent they're playing one? I can only assume that to the younger audience the term sounds, like, cool. What's wrong with saying "I like shooter games with simple mechanics and a good story"? No harm done. But whatever, I don't really care if people want to call all their favourite games RPG, I certainly won't argue endlessly why they're not, but it is odd that they spend so much time defending their (wrong) characterization of the game.

>Implying OP didn't mention Baldur's Gate.
>Implying ME2 has an objectively bad story

[SurfaceBeneath]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
Its a good game, with a poor plot, and far too much time devoted to shooting from behind cover

>Implying that ME2 has less dialogue than ME1
>Implying ME1's Mako segments (easily 30% of the game) had ANY RPG elements to them

[DaddyFoxDerek]

Serogon wrote...

Amazing. A thread where the majority of people realize that an RPG isn't about dice rolls and grinding for loot. I'm Commander Shepherd, and this is my favorite thread on the Citadel.

Exactly.

[Asheer_Khan]

This is THIRD time when Bioware screwed up sequels to thier best games.

First was Kotor 2 completely destroyed by Obsydian, then comes NWN 2 as well having whit original game almost nothing common and then (this time under Bioware's banner) comes Mass Effect 2...
which (in my eyes) CAN"T BE CONSIDERING AS ME 1 SEQUEL.
Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 are two different games placed in Mass Effect universe.
Furthermore, you can't considering something as a trilogy if in the middle of the story you changed plot writer.
Trilogy can be consider ONLY if this same author write all three parts (aka Tolkien's Lord of the Ring Trilogy).
Why Star Wars IV/VI is considering as trilogy despite fact that each movie was directed by different people because scenario was writen BY ONE AND THIS SAME person (aka Gorge Lucas).

I seriously tought that Bioware known that cannon and after both early sequels "misshaps" they will not repeat this same mistake again since all three Mass Effect games are signed by them.
BUT NO... what we get instead?
Crossover between Revenge of the Sith ( Shepard tricked by Timmy to work for Terrorist group) and The fugitive ( runs away from Alliance whit destroyed reputation because forced work whit terrorists).

Right now i serious tought "Why a hell i even bother to play as Paragon in ME 1 if in ME 2 my paragon character stand before choice without any possibility to say "NO I WILL NOT WORK FOR TERRORISTS!!!" and exit that facility by nearest shuttle docking bay.

That's why from my previous very high current expectations when comes to ME 3 are "oh well, let see how this story will end"... no more no less.
And my personal rating of Bioware fail from 5 stars to barely 1 and half star because of Mass Effect 2 and it will be very hard to regain my respect for them again.

"Foul me once (Kotor 2) shame on you, foul me twice (NWN 2) shame on me, foul me third time ( ME 2) you will lost my respect"...

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 23 février 2010 - 04:40 .

[DaddyFoxDerek]

This game definitely was the most enjoyable Role Playing Game or First Person Shooter I've played. While I was playing it the first time through, I've never been so immersed in a game and I've never been so emotionally invested.



And this comparison starting way back with Atari old school goodness. Better than the Baldurs Gate series for me, better than the Elder Scrolls series. The only game that comes close to such a riveting experience while I played was Planescape: Torment. I also barely turned off the original Halo and Gears of War.



I'm not the biggest fan of the "RPG" element of organizing and digging through Excel Spreadsheets of items and goods. I don't find that a game experience, I find that work. The Planescape Tormet line "I couldn't carry any more so I had to drop it" always runs repeatedly through my head while looking through those darn lists of items that are worse than the ones I have. I'm so glad it wasn't in this game, having changeable N7 armor on was the experience without the tedium.

[Daeion]

This isn't a rpg, it's a shooter RPG, ME was role playing perfected.

[harrier25699]

DaddyFoxDerek wrote...

And this comparison starting way back with Atari old school goodness. Better than the Baldurs Gate series for me, better than the Elder Scrolls series.

Please tell me you are excluding TES 4: Oblivion from this statement.  That game is RPG brilliance.  In a completely different league to the ME series.  

Modifié par harrier25699, 23 février 2010 - 05:11 .

[Ghostano]

ME2 is pokeman in space with guns. Got to collect all them crazy team members. I choose you crazy krogan and bald woman!!!!!

[ODST 3]

You're right the game is excellent. Screw categorization. It doesn't need to be called an RPG to be the best game I've ever played. Blew Dragon Age right out of the ocean.

[Daeion]

honesty it gets harder and harder to define what a RPG is as time goes on as it means different things to different people. I mean compare a JRPG Like Final Fantasy to KOTOR, both are considered RPGs but have vastly different game play mechanics. Look at a game like Bioshock, I have friends that will argue it is a shooter based upon the main game play element and I have others who will argue it's a RPG because you can choose how to act i.e. saving vs. harvesting as well as the different combinations of plasmids, tonics, and upgrading them, weapons, and taking photos to increase damage vs enemy types.

[DaddyFoxDerek]

harrier25699 wrote...

DaddyFoxDerek wrote...

And this comparison starting way back with Atari old school goodness. Better than the Baldurs Gate series for me, better than the Elder Scrolls series.

Please tell me you are excluding TES 4: Oblivion from this statement.  That game is RPG brilliance.  In a completely different league to the ME series.  

Nah, I'm including it. That game was awesome, long, and open. It was good ride....
But I enjoy Mass Effect 2 quite a bit more. Great RPG dialogue and intense emotional responses, coupled with tactical combat that is a blast. Its tough to find an RPG where you're jumping around after you execute a perfect combat move or sequence and cheering after great plot developments.

Modifié par DaddyFoxDerek, 23 février 2010 - 05:45 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

>Implying that ME2 has less dialogue than ME1
>Implying ME1's Mako segments (easily 30% of the game) had ANY RPG elements to them

>Implying that forced shooter elements can compare to almost entirely optional mako segments
>Denying that ME2s shooter elements invade the rest of the game and take precedence (80-90% of almost all loyalty missions are simple combat stages with pissant amounts of dialogue and exposition woven in)

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 23 février 2010 - 05:58 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
>Implying that forced shooter elements can compare to almost entirely optional mako segments
>Denying that ME2s shooter elements invade the rest of the game and take precedence (80-90% of almost all loyalty missions are simple combat stages with pissant amounts of dialogue and exposition woven in)

Above post proves the person posting it clearly never played Mass Effect either that or probably spent the majority of the game staring at Liara on the Normandy because they seem to have forgotten how most of the missions in ME were heavily shooter orientated as well. Eden Prime, Therum, Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos, final mission and all those sidequests involving lots of shooting and biotic/tech fighting Geth, Rachni, mercs of various races/factions.

Sloth has more intelligence than you do Dinkamus

[Barquiel]

no

I think
-BG2
-Mass Effect 1
-Jade Empire
-Dragon Age
are better RPGs.

Modifié par Barquiel, 23 février 2010 - 07:04 .