297 réponses à ce sujet

[TornadoADV]

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

[AngryFrozenWater]

TJSolo wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

No really, they took out RPG elements.

To me they toned back the tedium out of some of the RPG elements.

They flat out removed things instead of improving them.
ME1 may have had too much of somethings but ME2 is too sparce in areas.

I've posted the following before. It got burried in a troll thread, so I'll try again here.

I predict that we will see three major improvements in ME3.
1) The crew member recruitment/loyalty missions will be better integrated in the story.
2) The conversation topics will be more fleshed out.
3) There will be more active talents (to allow levels 31 through 60).

These issues pop up the most often on these forums and no doubt that BW is going to do something with it. Number 3 is something that is not happening because of people's wishes but it has simply to do with importing the ME2 characters and their stats in ME3. But I could be off here. This is what I think... Currently the level cap is 30, so the number of active talents has been kept low: 3 (plus one after the loyalty mission) for crew members and 6 (plus a bonus talent) for Shepard. In ME3 the level cap will be 60 and  I think the number of talents is likely to double. That would bring the game back to ME1 levels.

[MPaBkaTa123]

I've tried discussing with people like the OP before but honestly if after the 30th time you made this topic haven't read any of the things people posted last time then you should either just plain stop or read why customization in ME1 was an illusion.

[TJSolo]

MPaBkaTa123 wrote...

I've tried discussing with people like the OP before but honestly if after the 30th time you made this topic haven't read any of the things people posted last time then you should either just plain stop or read why customization in ME1 was an illusion.

Speaking of stopping and reading.
Maybe you should read the OP since the OP is stating that he/she thinks there is still a good amount of customization coming from armor pieces, squad members, and power selection in ME2. 

[MPaBkaTa123]

TJSolo wrote...

MPaBkaTa123 wrote...

I've tried discussing with people like the OP before but honestly if after the 30th time you made this topic haven't read any of the things people posted last time then you should either just plain stop or read why customization in ME1 was an illusion.

Speaking of stopping and reading.
Maybe you should read the OP since the OP is stating that he/she thinks there is still a good amount of customization coming from armor pieces, squad members, and power selection in ME2. 

Yes, i have point is this has been said way over a hundred times there is no point in making this topic for the 86843790th time sooner or later it will devolve into a flamewar.

[Chuvvy]

-D-C-D- wrote...
I could argue that ME2 is one of the more strategic RPGs out there.

Are you ****ing ****ting me?

[A Fhaol Bhig]

WillG027 wrote...

The lack of character customisation and RPG elements leads to a feeling of detachment with the characters.
This just made the whole walkthrough feel of the game more evident and, in the end, I just didn't care what happened because I didn't have control of the characters in any meaningful way, and therefore, no emotional investment in them.
The system implemented for upgrading may aswell have done itself for all the impact it has on the characters or outcome.

ME2 was a massive dissappointment. Really dumbed down game. It felt like I was being led through it the whole time, making it feel like a game for casual gamers, and really unstimulating. A game that requires no brains whatsoever.

Bioware srewed the pooch with ME2 and ruined everything that was good about the game from ME1.

Mass Effect 2 could have truly been such a special gaming world if they had chosen to further refine the more traditional RPG elements from the first game. It's such a shame that they have, instead, taken the game towards the other end of the spectrum, more towards a brain dead, shoot everything on screen till your at the end of the corridor approach with the franchise.

Biggest disappointment in the gaming sequel history.

Personal opinon, not a fact. Don't state it as a fact.

I disagree with everything you say, but it's your opinion.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

WillG027 wrote...

Thats pretty much it ME762.

Yeah Schneidend, you can change the armor and weapons A LITTLE BIT.
But, ultimately, most of the upgrades were very similar in nature and didn't change the overall gaming experience much at all. The bullets were a bit stronger, or the Bio lift lasted longer.
It took no thought or planning to upgrade your character, as the choices were very limited and had little impact on how the game is played, or on the progression of the characters class/story.

ME2 just didn't require much brain power on the part of the user at all.

*laughs*
and ME took a ton of brain power to give your weapon ammo powers? Wanted snowblind rounds? Click A! Wow, that took so much brain power to scroll down and press a button.

I mean, if you wanted more power against the geth, you scrolled to Hammerhead rounds or something, and pressed A. Not exactly rocket science.

And most of the leveling was VERY similar in nature, and didn't really change the gaming experience. I mean, wow, I can now kill a geth 1 second faster than without the ammo upgrade. That really changed the game.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Schneidend wrote...

WillG027 wrote...

Thats pretty much it ME762.

Yeah Schneidend, you can change the armor and weapons A LITTLE BIT.
But, ultimately, most of the upgrades were very similar in nature and didn't change the overall gaming experience much at all. The bullets were a bit stronger, or the Bio lift lasted longer.
It took no thought or planning to upgrade your character, as the choices were very limited and had little impact on how the game is played, or on the progression of the characters class/story.

ME2 just didn't require much brain power on the part of the user at all.

I can look at the differences between playing as my Soldier in ME1 and playing him in ME2 and come to the conclusion that I disagree vehemently. In ME1 Insanity my Soldier simply had to turn on Master Immunity and run around with the trigger held down, and I would win. There's no real strategy or thought process involved when you literally cannot be killed. In ME2 Insanity, however, it actually matters what weapons I use or how I outfit my character, because just turning on Adrenaline Rush isn't the answer to every problem the game throws at me. Even if I activate Adrenaline, if I haven't chosen the right weapon or the right ammo mod for the enemy or the situation then I have wasted a global cooldown, and a wasted global cooldown is a few more seconds Harbinger has to walk right next to me and hit me in the face with his one-two punch insta-kill.

The choice between Squad Ammo and Heavy Ammo, I think, is a much bigger choice than what was presented to me in ME1. Even at level 50, my Soldier had enough points to max out all the skills he needed and then some, and I didn't even use the multiple playthroughs trick for free Charm/Intimidate points. In ME2, I can only max out 5 skills out of a maximum of 7, and all 7 of those skills can contribute to my ability to win an encounter. Even after I decide what five skills to master, I find that choosing a combination of evolutions is a similarly large hurdle, though some evolutions are better than others, depending on the class and the skill in question.

Case in point exactly.

I mean the infiltrator had Immunity, what the hell? Oh SH*T I got hit by one bullet lets turn on Imunnity because I'm going to die! I hated wasting points on my charm skills, even if it was an important part of the game. Plus I didn't care for stasis, or the grenades, I took my gun, maybe used a power now and than to make things easier, but most of all I never let go of the trigger. That takes so much brain-power in comparison to ME2 that it hurts my head even thinking about it.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

MPSai wrote...

Yeah really, they didn't take out RPG elements, they took out annoying micromanagement.

What you didn't adore scrolling for 30 seconds to find one armor/weapon upgrade?

I think I wasted more time scrolling, than playing in ME.

[Agamemnon2589]

You know, I still don't get the people who are pissed that ME2 is less of a D&D RPG. Call me a console simpleton if you want (you're wrong, but you're welcome to it if it makes you feel better) but ME2's system is far superior to any D&D RPG out there. I, personally, would much rather play a game in which MY skill is the skill that matters - not the skill of the dice roll. This is why I absolutely hate games like Final Fantasy. And for me, what matters in a roll playing game is being able to immerse myself in the role of the main character and play that role. I can do this in ME2. In fact, I can do this to a wonderful level only ever before achieved by ME1. I still play the game for the story and the characters, not the shooting. In the end, the shooting is just an awesome little plus side that makes the game more enjoyable for me. But hey, if you want to go back to rolling dice in Mom's basement, that's your thing.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

MPaBkaTa123 wrote...

This thread is both new and interesting.

*shines thread*
its still pretty clean also.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

You know, I still don't get the people who are pissed that ME2 is less of a D&D RPG. Call me a console simpleton if you want (you're wrong, but you're welcome to it if it makes you feel better) but ME2's system is far superior to any D&D RPG out there. I, personally, would much rather play a game in which MY skill is the skill that matters - not the skill of the dice roll. This is why I absolutely hate games like Final Fantasy. And for me, what matters in a roll playing game is being able to immerse myself in the role of the main character and play that role. I can do this in ME2. In fact, I can do this to a wonderful level only ever before achieved by ME1. I still play the game for the story and the characters, not the shooting. In the end, the shooting is just an awesome little plus side that makes the game more enjoyable for me. But hey, if you want to go back to rolling dice in Mom's basement, that's your thing.

I think the only universal element about RPG's is the Role Playing part of it. When you create a character, choose specific class, (or are given one) and you go of to make your own skills and such. I think thats the only universal part of RPG's. Everything else seems to be game.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Slidell505 wrote...

-D-C-D- wrote...
I could argue that ME2 is one of the more strategic RPGs out there.

Are you ****ing ****ting me?

Are you being an overeactive pansy?

[A Fhaol Bhig]

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

I play both games, actually. I enjoy Mass effect more though.

[Agamemnon2589]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

WillG027 wrote...

Thats pretty much it ME762.

Yeah Schneidend, you can change the armor and weapons A LITTLE BIT.
But, ultimately, most of the upgrades were very similar in nature and didn't change the overall gaming experience much at all. The bullets were a bit stronger, or the Bio lift lasted longer.
It took no thought or planning to upgrade your character, as the choices were very limited and had little impact on how the game is played, or on the progression of the characters class/story.

ME2 just didn't require much brain power on the part of the user at all.

I can look at the differences between playing as my Soldier in ME1 and playing him in ME2 and come to the conclusion that I disagree vehemently. In ME1 Insanity my Soldier simply had to turn on Master Immunity and run around with the trigger held down, and I would win. There's no real strategy or thought process involved when you literally cannot be killed. In ME2 Insanity, however, it actually matters what weapons I use or how I outfit my character, because just turning on Adrenaline Rush isn't the answer to every problem the game throws at me. Even if I activate Adrenaline, if I haven't chosen the right weapon or the right ammo mod for the enemy or the situation then I have wasted a global cooldown, and a wasted global cooldown is a few more seconds Harbinger has to walk right next to me and hit me in the face with his one-two punch insta-kill.

The choice between Squad Ammo and Heavy Ammo, I think, is a much bigger choice than what was presented to me in ME1. Even at level 50, my Soldier had enough points to max out all the skills he needed and then some, and I didn't even use the multiple playthroughs trick for free Charm/Intimidate points. In ME2, I can only max out 5 skills out of a maximum of 7, and all 7 of those skills can contribute to my ability to win an encounter. Even after I decide what five skills to master, I find that choosing a combination of evolutions is a similarly large hurdle, though some evolutions are better than others, depending on the class and the skill in question.

Case in point exactly.

I mean the infiltrator had Immunity, what the hell? Oh SH*T I got hit by one bullet lets turn on Imunnity because I'm going to die! I hated wasting points on my charm skills, even if it was an important part of the game. Plus I didn't care for stasis, or the grenades, I took my gun, maybe used a power now and than to make things easier, but most of all I never let go of the trigger. That takes so much brain-power in comparison to ME2 that it hurts my head even thinking about it.

Didn't require much brain power? Riiiiiight. So, being a tactician is obviously much less mentally taxing than running around with my Spectre gear assault rifle with heat sink and damage mods and literally never letting go of the trigger because I never had to? I think not. I don't even think I swapped out the damage mod once I got Incendiary X or whatever the highest level mod was. There just wasn't any need to. And with the two heat sink mods, I could shoot all day. I tried it once, just for grins - I taped my controller's R trigger down and came back an hour later. Where was the heat meter? A little under half-way. Yeah, that's brain power for you right there.

Don't get me wrong - I loved ME1. It was my all-time favorite game. But ME2 takes every thing that I loved about the first game and makes it better. Now the shooting experience is based on my skill, not my leveled-up computer's skill. 

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Agamemnon2589 wrote...
Didn't require much brain power? Riiiiiight. So, being a tactician is obviously much less mentally taxing than running around with my Spectre gear assault rifle with heat sink and damage mods and literally never letting go of the trigger because I never had to? I think not. I don't even think I swapped out the damage mod once I got Incendiary X or whatever the highest level mod was. There just wasn't any need to. And with the two heat sink mods, I could shoot all day. I tried it once, just for grins - I taped my controller's R trigger down and came back an hour later. Where was the heat meter? A little under half-way. Yeah, that's brain power for you right there.

Don't get me wrong - I loved ME1. It was my all-time favorite game. But ME2 takes every thing that I loved about the first game and makes it better. Now the shooting experience is based on my skill, not my leveled-up computer's skill. 

haha! You did that to? It took 2hrs and 12 minutes for my gun to overheat! and it took...6 seconds for it to cool down and for me to do it again XD

[Agamemnon2589]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Agamemnon2589 wrote...
Didn't require much brain power? Riiiiiight. So, being a tactician is obviously much less mentally taxing than running around with my Spectre gear assault rifle with heat sink and damage mods and literally never letting go of the trigger because I never had to? I think not. I don't even think I swapped out the damage mod once I got Incendiary X or whatever the highest level mod was. There just wasn't any need to. And with the two heat sink mods, I could shoot all day. I tried it once, just for grins - I taped my controller's R trigger down and came back an hour later. Where was the heat meter? A little under half-way. Yeah, that's brain power for you right there.

Don't get me wrong - I loved ME1. It was my all-time favorite game. But ME2 takes every thing that I loved about the first game and makes it better. Now the shooting experience is based on my skill, not my leveled-up computer's skill. 

haha! You did that to? It took 2hrs and 12 minutes for my gun to overheat! and it took...6 seconds for it to cool down and for me to do it again XD

Ridiculous. Seriously, all you had to do in that game was get the best assault rifle. Insta-win.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Agamemnon2589 wrote...
Didn't require much brain power? Riiiiiight. So, being a tactician is obviously much less mentally taxing than running around with my Spectre gear assault rifle with heat sink and damage mods and literally never letting go of the trigger because I never had to? I think not. I don't even think I swapped out the damage mod once I got Incendiary X or whatever the highest level mod was. There just wasn't any need to. And with the two heat sink mods, I could shoot all day. I tried it once, just for grins - I taped my controller's R trigger down and came back an hour later. Where was the heat meter? A little under half-way. Yeah, that's brain power for you right there.

Don't get me wrong - I loved ME1. It was my all-time favorite game. But ME2 takes every thing that I loved about the first game and makes it better. Now the shooting experience is based on my skill, not my leveled-up computer's skill. 

haha! You did that to? It took 2hrs and 12 minutes for my gun to overheat! and it took...6 seconds for it to cool down and for me to do it again XD

Ridiculous. Seriously, all you had to do in that game was get the best assault rifle. Insta-win.

I will admitt sentinal took serious skill on insanity if you didn't choose the assualt rifle as your bonus talent. I didn't have any problem completing the game on insanity with any of the other classes, adept was the easiest for me actually because all I did was toss than throw

Modifié par A Fhaol Bhig, 28 février 2010 - 03:06 .

[Agamemnon2589]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Agamemnon2589 wrote...
Didn't require much brain power? Riiiiiight. So, being a tactician is obviously much less mentally taxing than running around with my Spectre gear assault rifle with heat sink and damage mods and literally never letting go of the trigger because I never had to? I think not. I don't even think I swapped out the damage mod once I got Incendiary X or whatever the highest level mod was. There just wasn't any need to. And with the two heat sink mods, I could shoot all day. I tried it once, just for grins - I taped my controller's R trigger down and came back an hour later. Where was the heat meter? A little under half-way. Yeah, that's brain power for you right there.

Don't get me wrong - I loved ME1. It was my all-time favorite game. But ME2 takes every thing that I loved about the first game and makes it better. Now the shooting experience is based on my skill, not my leveled-up computer's skill. 

haha! You did that to? It took 2hrs and 12 minutes for my gun to overheat! and it took...6 seconds for it to cool down and for me to do it again XD

Ridiculous. Seriously, all you had to do in that game was get the best assault rifle. Insta-win.

I will admitt sentinal took serious skill on insanity if you didn't choose the assualt rifle as your bonus talent. I didn't have any problem completing the game on insanity with any of the other classes, adept was the easiest for me actually because all I did was toss than throw

I only ever played a soldier, a vanguard, an engineer, and an infiltrator. Engineer and infiltrator were mildly more difficult, but I still had the assault rifle. So *shrug* insta-win button still existed. 

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Yeah, its a challenge. You should try it if you still have the game, I had a ton of fun with just the pistol, you have to use your powers alot, and it sucks early in the game, but once you get leveled up with the right armor/and cool-down reducing equipment, it's a ton of fun.

[newcomplex]

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?  

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Modifié par newcomplex, 28 février 2010 - 03:27 .

[Minister of Sound]

You know why Mass Effect 2 is not an RPG? There are a lot more places where Commander Shepard speaks without any input from the player.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?  

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Well gosh, hard decision.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Minister of Sound wrote...

You know why Mass Effect 2 is not an RPG? There are a lot more places where Commander Shepard speaks without any input from the player.

*BOL*
That's your reason why its not an RPG? all the Things we've listed, and thats your reason?

Listen, most RPG's don't even let you pick your dialoge, Final Fantasy doesn't let you pick dialoge, you going to say that isn't an RPG? No, so your point is null and void.