297 réponses à ce sujet

[lukandroll]

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Modifié par lukandroll, 02 mars 2010 - 05:42 .

[ian528]

This is an interesting thread that I come down somewhere in the middle.



1) The did simplify the power structure too much and it does not create the same individual characteristics that are possible. That being said I am not sure that the first game was really better in this. I think it is still too bound to table top and that bioware should look at how other systems are accomplishing this. I find borderlands to be an inferior game with a superior customization system that can give you real difference in play.



2) The QTE usage for paragon or renegade events were revolutionary. A QTE is not revolutionary in and of itself but Bioware seems to have looked at what they were doing in the first game with them and said that not quite right. They got it so right this time its scary. The fact the event is a special something unexpected and added on to make the scene more is EXACTLY what should be done with QTEs but to often is not. I have also found that not taking the QTE can lead to vastly more satisfying game play if you are really talking about role playing.



3) Table top games are not what you think. There are many systems out there. d20 is not the only system and it is not always the best system. I do a lot of table top and although ME 2 is vastly simplified from traditional D&D, it is not that far off other table top games.



4) The removal of loot and real armor customization works out to be a miss for me. I think they were almost there and that the customization available to main character armor was impressive. The failure to implement this for all characters makes it not work for me. They need to have the same choices you do and reflect them as well. That means more stuff is needed. This has been balanced to be a tight game. I understand that. However, I still prefer to get more loot. I can however adjust to that as part of the GMing style. I have had harsher GMs then bioware.



5) Immersive gaming does happen in ME 2 and that makes it an RPG more then anything I know. However, the nods to the shooter crowd at the end of each level telling you what you got breaks the immersion badly. I have also found the loading screens to not be as good as the elevator. However, I will freely admit I ****ed about the elevator with the first game. It was however a perfect immersive element. But the writing and stories were overwhelmingly better. It was not the same Epic tale. It was smaller darker and you were fighting harder and dirtier. As a gamer and RPG fan, that is why I play.

[Hizoka003]

I just think they break immersion every chance they get... immersion and load screens do not go together, randomly finding planets to land on is really lame rather then over hearing there are problems that need solving at them

[Aurvan]

I really like ME2 and I'm confused as to what was so much better in ME1. Can anyone (that feels ME2 was more RPG and customisable) explain this to me?



Levels, huge inventory, stats and character customisation does not an RPG make. I much prefer to have no levels, and just XP you can distribute between all stats, HP, skills, abilities, powers, feats when you get it (or save it for more costly upgrades) - similar to Vampire: Bloodlines (which I found to be an excellent RPG despite not having traditional levels). And if unlockable skills and abilities is what makes it an RPG, then Modern Warefare 2 would be an RPG.



No, what makes it an RPG goes beyond game mechanics the way I see it. If, in a table top session, all you did was move down a hallway killing everything in your path by rolling dice, then I see your point. But rolling the dice was just one way to deal with a armed conflict (or other problems) because the game world didn't sit inside a computer. Now that it does, you have many ways for the computer to deal with the combat, and I think developers should explore this regardless of what D&D is like in PnP. What made those table top sessions great were that you could deal with the conflicts and situations in a number of ways. You could choose who you wanted to help, and who you wanted to kill - and it had consequences. Most games that give you choices like this, and your choice affects the plot, I am willing to call RPGs. This may seem simple, but it's usually a good indicator of what the rest of the game is like.



And, no, Super Mario Bros doesn't count. Sure, you can choose not to kill all the mobs on a level, but either way doesn't make a difference to the story.

[Chuck_Vu]

I like options... I would prefer it if the game allowed for multiple routes and resoulutions to missions/quests. But leave a clearly defined path for the corridor shooter crowds. From what I gather, it's what they prefer. I encourage them to take it, and would not think less of them for doing so. But I ask them to likewise encourage me to take the less traveled path and explore the back alleys and rooftops, and possibly find an alternate solution to that same mission/quest that they did, at the same time not think any less of me for doing so. The more options, the more people can enjoy the game, because it allows a multitude of people with differing play styles to play the same game. There's nothing wrong with alot of options. The great thing about options is... THEY ARE OPTIONAL.



I would think it would be great if I could walk to some bad-guy base with a high Paragon/Renegade rating and ring the doorbell and convince the door man that I was delivering pizza (bomb), while my friend plays the exact same mission and kills everything that moved in the same base. Neither way was wrong or better then the other. It's just different strokes for differnt folks.



This is where I feel ME 1 and 2 could improve the RPG aspects of the game. It would make a multitude of people happy. Because now (in theory), the shooter crowd can go guns blazing, the talkers can talk their enemies to death, the sneakers can go skulking about to their hearts content, etc. And there is nothing wrong with any method, you could play as you like.



Current combat mechanics are perfect by the way, don't change them. And as a reviewer said: Bioware no longers scores points for writing - birds fly, fishes swim and Bioware has excellent writing.

[Terror_K]

What BioWare needs to do is bring back some friggin stats to the weapons and armour and give us more of it. ME1 may have had a lot of useless, redundant and broken items but at least it had a good selection of items that had statistical factors that allowed us to determine which was the best. ME2's items have none of this, and are just another factor of the game that was dumbed-down since they have no statistical factors for comparison and are no better than simply picking up a weapon in a standard shooter.



What BioWare needs to do is stop watering things down more and in ME3 give us at least half-a-dozen weapons/armour-pieces of each type, all with visible statistical values that allow us to determine which weapon/armour we want. On top of that, allow us to properly mod them rather than just research upgrades. ME1 had the right idea... it just had poor items that needed more variation and needed to be less uselessly bad or overpowered to the point of making all searching redundant.



ME1's system may have been awkward and busted, but it was at least a solid concept. ME2's system is just a pathetic joke.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Actually, since you have less shields in ME2, the small boosts, while not huge, make a bigger difference. For example adding all the shield boosters together makes a difference, even in Insanity. So your point is pretty void. I'm not going to deny it isn't extrodinarly differen't from ME, but than again, I could also view it as you attacking yourself. I mean you defend the system in ME, but attack the system in ME2 which isn't drasticly different.

Also, your little post at the end made you look like a moron, you did a horrible job mocking his post. Here's tip, next time you do it, don't act like a ******.

Modifié par A Fhaol Bhig, 02 mars 2010 - 11:55 .

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Terror_K wrote...

What BioWare needs to do is bring back some friggin stats to the weapons and armour and give us more of it. ME1 may have had a lot of useless, redundant and broken items but at least it had a good selection of items that had statistical factors that allowed us to determine which was the best. ME2's items have none of this, and are just another factor of the game that was dumbed-down since they have no statistical factors for comparison and are no better than simply picking up a weapon in a standard shooter.

What BioWare needs to do is stop watering things down more and in ME3 give us at least half-a-dozen weapons/armour-pieces of each type, all with visible statistical values that allow us to determine which weapon/armour we want. On top of that, allow us to properly mod them rather than just research upgrades. ME1 had the right idea... it just had poor items that needed more variation and needed to be less uselessly bad or overpowered to the point of making all searching redundant.

ME1's system may have been awkward and busted, but it was at least a solid concept. ME2's system is just a pathetic joke.

Agreed with the need for at least 4-6 different types for each, but disagree that is is busted. I mean, in Halo, you have two, very oftenly used sniper rifles. No one ever says "we need more" It's not broken, I mean their was not a single sniper rifle in ME that shot differently, or sounded differently from the others. Just different skin and stat wise. Techincally, ME2 has more types of snipers than ME.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

ian528 wrote...

This is an interesting thread that I come down somewhere in the middle.

1) The did simplify the power structure too much and it does not create the same individual characteristics that are possible. That being said I am not sure that the first game was really better in this. I think it is still too bound to table top and that bioware should look at how other systems are accomplishing this. I find borderlands to be an inferior game with a superior customization system that can give you real difference in play.

2) The QTE usage for paragon or renegade events were revolutionary. A QTE is not revolutionary in and of itself but Bioware seems to have looked at what they were doing in the first game with them and said that not quite right. They got it so right this time its scary. The fact the event is a special something unexpected and added on to make the scene more is EXACTLY what should be done with QTEs but to often is not. I have also found that not taking the QTE can lead to vastly more satisfying game play if you are really talking about role playing.

3) Table top games are not what you think. There are many systems out there. d20 is not the only system and it is not always the best system. I do a lot of table top and although ME 2 is vastly simplified from traditional D&D, it is not that far off other table top games.

4) The removal of loot and real armor customization works out to be a miss for me. I think they were almost there and that the customization available to main character armor was impressive. The failure to implement this for all characters makes it not work for me. They need to have the same choices you do and reflect them as well. That means more stuff is needed. This has been balanced to be a tight game. I understand that. However, I still prefer to get more loot. I can however adjust to that as part of the GMing style. I have had harsher GMs then bioware.

5) Immersive gaming does happen in ME 2 and that makes it an RPG more then anything I know. However, the nods to the shooter crowd at the end of each level telling you what you got breaks the immersion badly. I have also found the loading screens to not be as good as the elevator. However, I will freely admit I ****ed about the elevator with the first game. It was however a perfect immersive element. But the writing and stories were overwhelmingly better. It was not the same Epic tale. It was smaller darker and you were fighting harder and dirtier. As a gamer and RPG fan, that is why I play.

You make some valid points, and opinions.

I admitt I generalize Table top games, but I mean, how many people nowadays really know how to play those games as opposed to the number that grew up with Final Fantasy? It's easier to generalize.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Chuck_Vu wrote...

I like options... I would prefer it if the game allowed for multiple routes and resoulutions to missions/quests. But leave a clearly defined path for the corridor shooter crowds. From what I gather, it's what they prefer. I encourage them to take it, and would not think less of them for doing so. But I ask them to likewise encourage me to take the less traveled path and explore the back alleys and rooftops, and possibly find an alternate solution to that same mission/quest that they did, at the same time not think any less of me for doing so. The more options, the more people can enjoy the game, because it allows a multitude of people with differing play styles to play the same game. There's nothing wrong with alot of options. The great thing about options is... THEY ARE OPTIONAL.
.

actually, most people who play shooters don't mind if its open, or linear. As long as they have fun, they will play it.

[Terror_K]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Agreed with the need for at least 4-6 different types for each, but disagree that is is busted. I mean, in Halo, you have two, very oftenly used sniper rifles. No one ever says "we need more" It's not broken, I mean their was not a single sniper rifle in ME that shot differently, or sounded differently from the others. Just different skin and stat wise. Techincally, ME2 has more types of snipers than ME.

Yes, but Halo is a shooter, and therefore the last thing one should be bringing up when discussing a lack of RPG elements. And stats should be the factor that drives items in an RPG. It should be how one determines whether weapon X is better than weapon Y, or at least how weapon X is better at doing A while weapon Y is better at doing B, etc.

Yes, technically ME2 has more types of sniper rifle than ME1 did, but you get one from the start and then replace it with the next when you find it, and maybe with the third one if you're a Soldier or Infiltrator. That's it... it's a no-brainer. ME2 has more types of weapons, but ME1 had more weapons.

On top of that, ME2 simplifies things even further when every single upgrade and every single new weapon or piece of armour is always in exactly the same place. There's no hunting for items or hoping something comes up: if you want the weapon you know exactly where it is and exactly how to get it EVERY time. Sure, most RPG's have a few static items that are always in the same places, but most usually have random stuff too. ME2 has none of that, meaning every time you play the game its the same thing over and over.

Even if they didn't bring back stats to the game, proper weapon modding would at least make the current system a little more customisable and offer some variation. What ever happened to those promises of "each player's weapon will be unique and their own, etc." that was promised by the devs. This couldn't have been further from the truth.

[EternalWolfe]

Chuck_Vu wrote...

I like options... I would prefer it if the game allowed for multiple routes and resoulutions to missions/quests. But leave a clearly defined path for the corridor shooter crowds. From what I gather, it's what they prefer. I encourage them to take it, and would not think less of them for doing so. But I ask them to likewise encourage me to take the less traveled path and explore the back alleys and rooftops, and possibly find an alternate solution to that same mission/quest that they did, at the same time not think any less of me for doing so. The more options, the more people can enjoy the game, because it allows a multitude of people with differing play styles to play the same game. There's nothing wrong with alot of options. The great thing about options is... THEY ARE OPTIONAL.

I would think it would be great if I could walk to some bad-guy base with a high Paragon/Renegade rating and ring the doorbell and convince the door man that I was delivering pizza (bomb), while my friend plays the exact same mission and kills everything that moved in the same base. Neither way was wrong or better then the other. It's just different strokes for differnt folks.

This is where I feel ME 1 and 2 could improve the RPG aspects of the game. It would make a multitude of people happy. Because now (in theory), the shooter crowd can go guns blazing, the talkers can talk their enemies to death, the sneakers can go skulking about to their hearts content, etc. And there is nothing wrong with any method, you could play as you like.

Current combat mechanics are perfect by the way, don't change them. And as a reviewer said: Bioware no longers scores points for writing - birds fly, fishes swim and Bioware has excellent writing.

This is one thing I'd like to see - multiple ways to resolves a mission.  We've already gone down the road where XP is rewarded for mission completion only, next step is to make it where you can do the mission in multiple ways - stealthy, smash the front door, talk your way in, or nuke the damn place from orbit while watching reruns on the extranet.  At the end of the day, the mission gets down our way, we get our little reward, and we play on.

[newcomplex]

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

LUL I GOING TO MAEK STUFF UP TO PRUF A POINT LUL.

My post was valid because it uses actual in game numbers, not the numbers your anus secretes.

In case your genuinely retarded and not trolling, I'll be kind and provide a response.   Their is literally not a single scenario in the entire game you will be choosing between 1% health and 1% sheilds.   The majority armor slots do not ask for you to make the disctinction between identical amounts of sheilds, or heatlh, because the two values are somewhat similar.   Only helmets and chestpieces      Then, theirs the fact that most commonly, you'll be asked to choose between, say "25% more melee damage, 3% more weapons damage, 5% more powers damage, or 5% more health", or 10% more health, 10% faster runspeed, 10% ammo capacity (heavy weapons) or 3% more sheilds (very low value in comparison to health)

Second, ME1 allowd a single piece of armor that determined your defensive stats.   Their was no strategic distinction between them.   ME2 allows five.    So its not asking you to choose between 5% more health, but totally, gearing for health allows you to have 30% more health.   In other words, nearly 200 more health on a solide a 130% increase.   On classes with inherent health boosts, you would get over 100 health.    Alternatively, you could get pure damage, and get almost 15% more weapons damage.    With a standard, upgraded revenant or a sniper rifle, that creates a whopping 60 dps difference.     On weaker weapons like SMG's, the difference is still over 30 dps, rather signficant.   Or else, you could tech for powers, getting 20% to powers damage.   That is equivilent to investing two levels in a level 4 spell. 

So...

100-200 health

vs.

30-60 more dps, or two additional weapon upgrades.   Against vulnerable enemies, this equals over 120 more dps.   

vs

two additional ranks in all your nukes, or 60-180 (on enemies its critically effective on) more damage on a level 4 spell.

LUL DERES NO DIFFERENCE

Modifié par newcomplex, 03 mars 2010 - 12:45 .

[EternalWolfe]

Terror_K wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Agreed with the need for at least 4-6 different types for each, but disagree that is is busted. I mean, in Halo, you have two, very oftenly used sniper rifles. No one ever says "we need more" It's not broken, I mean their was not a single sniper rifle in ME that shot differently, or sounded differently from the others. Just different skin and stat wise. Techincally, ME2 has more types of snipers than ME.

Yes, but Halo is a shooter, and therefore the last thing one should be bringing up when discussing a lack of RPG elements. And stats should be the factor that drives items in an RPG. It should be how one determines whether weapon X is better than weapon Y, or at least how weapon X is better at doing A while weapon Y is better at doing B, etc.

Yes, technically ME2 has more types of sniper rifle than ME1 did, but you get one from the start and then replace it with the next when you find it, and maybe with the third one if you're a Soldier or Infiltrator. That's it... it's a no-brainer. ME2 has more types of weapons, but ME1 had more weapons.

On top of that, ME2 simplifies things even further when every single upgrade and every single new weapon or piece of armour is always in exactly the same place. There's no hunting for items or hoping something comes up: if you want the weapon you know exactly where it is and exactly how to get it EVERY time. Sure, most RPG's have a few static items that are always in the same places, but most usually have random stuff too. ME2 has none of that, meaning every time you play the game its the same thing over and over.

Even if they didn't bring back stats to the game, proper weapon modding would at least make the current system a little more customisable and offer some variation. What ever happened to those promises of "each player's weapon will be unique and their own, etc." that was promised by the devs. This couldn't have been further from the truth.

Question - would you have found it better if, instead of 'Weapon Damage' Upgrades, you found 'upgrades' that were weapon-based, and would replace your gun with a new name(and upgraded stats)?  Example: You find the Avenger Upgrade, which turns the Avenger into the Avenger II.  Or you could change part of the name, like the numbers, to denote progression.  Either way.

Also, on another note, I would prefer a modular weapon system, like the armor(although I'd like more peices in both of them).  I like the feel of building my own weapon/armor.  On that idea, would you prefer one weapon(of each type) with multiple mods that have strong effects(you could, with the right mods, build both the Predator and the Hand Cannon from the same basic pistol) or multiple pistols with mods with smaller effects(so that you can't break the system by building a gun with huge power and a large clip, ect, ect)?

[A Fhaol Bhig]

newcomplex wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

LUL I GOING TO MAEK STUFF UP TO PRUF A POINT LUL.

My post was valid because it uses actual in game numbers, not the numbers your anus secretes.

1% health is not an option in ME2, it is not an in game number.

Simply saying its valid does not make it valid, also stop trying to insult me, you really suck at it. I went to far in calling you a ******, but seriously, lets drop the insults.

[newcomplex]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

LUL I GOING TO MAEK STUFF UP TO PRUF A POINT LUL.

My post was valid because it uses actual in game numbers, not the numbers your anus secretes.

1% health is not an option in ME2, it is not an in game number.

Simply saying its valid does not make it valid, also stop trying to insult me, you really suck at it. I went to far in calling you a ******, but seriously, lets drop the insults.

I wasn't insulting you?  This is awkward.   Weren't you agreeing with me and dissing the other guy?

Uh...perhaps you confused me for the other guy?   I wasn't even talking to you.  

Modifié par newcomplex, 03 mars 2010 - 12:39 .

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Terror_K wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Agreed with the need for at least 4-6 different types for each, but disagree that is is busted. I mean, in Halo, you have two, very oftenly used sniper rifles. No one ever says "we need more" It's not broken, I mean their was not a single sniper rifle in ME that shot differently, or sounded differently from the others. Just different skin and stat wise. Techincally, ME2 has more types of snipers than ME.

Yes, but Halo is a shooter, and therefore the last thing one should be bringing up when discussing a lack of RPG elements. And stats should be the factor that drives items in an RPG. It should be how one determines whether weapon X is better than weapon Y, or at least how weapon X is better at doing A while weapon Y is better at doing B, etc.

Yes, technically ME2 has more types of sniper rifle than ME1 did, but you get one from the start and then replace it with the next when you find it, and maybe with the third one if you're a Soldier or Infiltrator. That's it... it's a no-brainer. ME2 has more types of weapons, but ME1 had more weapons.

On top of that, ME2 simplifies things even further when every single upgrade and every single new weapon or piece of armour is always in exactly the same place. There's no hunting for items or hoping something comes up: if you want the weapon you know exactly where it is and exactly how to get it EVERY time. Sure, most RPG's have a few static items that are always in the same places, but most usually have random stuff too. ME2 has none of that, meaning every time you play the game its the same thing over and over.

Even if they didn't bring back stats to the game, proper weapon modding would at least make the current system a little more customisable and offer some variation. What ever happened to those promises of "each player's weapon will be unique and their own, etc." that was promised by the devs. This couldn't have been further from the truth.

Mass Effect is a shooter also, or did you not notice the guns?
Snide comment aside, I wasn't saying it had more guns, I was saying it had more types. I mean, what other sniper rifles could you come up with that wouldn't vary from the others simply in damage or looks? Auto, or bolt action are pretty much your choices.

I don't disagree that we should have more guns nontheless, but the other person here who posted (wolf something in his name) hit it spot on, on what I think would work.

Pretty sure everytime I open a chest in the Legend of Zelda, or Final Fantasy its the same item over and over again...

I've never heard them say that.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

newcomplex wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

LUL I GOING TO MAEK STUFF UP TO PRUF A POINT LUL.

My post was valid because it uses actual in game numbers, not the numbers your anus secretes.

1% health is not an option in ME2, it is not an in game number.

Simply saying its valid does not make it valid, also stop trying to insult me, you really suck at it. I went to far in calling you a ******, but seriously, lets drop the insults.

I wasn't insulting you?  This is awkward.   Weren't you agreeing with me and dissing the other guy?

I feel really stupid right now because I thought you WERE that guy.

[lukandroll]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Actually, since you have less shields in ME2, the small boosts, while not huge, make a bigger difference. For example adding all the shield boosters together makes a difference, even in Insanity. So your point is pretty void. I'm not going to deny it isn't extrodinarly differen't from ME, but than again, I could also view it as you attacking yourself. I mean you defend the system in ME, but attack the system in ME2 which isn't drasticly different.

Also, your little post at the end made you look like a moron, you did a horrible job mocking his post. Here's tip, next time you do it, don't act like a ******.

Reported for insults.
And for your information, I was imitating a ******, the original poster.

And about your point on the shield, that's completely BS, I tried all this supposed stats, and the difference Its lo little that again, you end up swithching amor only for cosmetic values....

And you're wrong again, look on the other page I already say that ME1 had problems aswell, I even posted some solutions for these problems.

So next time, before calling me a ******, be a little more mature, and read the whole thing.
Selective reading, FTW!

[A Fhaol Bhig]

lukandroll wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Actually, since you have less shields in ME2, the small boosts, while not huge, make a bigger difference. For example adding all the shield boosters together makes a difference, even in Insanity. So your point is pretty void. I'm not going to deny it isn't extrodinarly differen't from ME, but than again, I could also view it as you attacking yourself. I mean you defend the system in ME, but attack the system in ME2 which isn't drasticly different.

Also, your little post at the end made you look like a moron, you did a horrible job mocking his post. Here's tip, next time you do it, don't act like a ******.

Reported for insults.
And for your information, I was imitating a ******, the original poster.

And about your point on the shield, that's completely BS, I tried all this supposed stats, and the difference Its lo little that again, you end up swithching amor only for cosmetic values....

And you're wrong again, look on the other page I already say that ME1 had problems aswell, I even posted some solutions for these problems.

So next time, before calling me a ******, be a little more mature, and read the whole thing.
Selective reading, FTW!

I didn't selectivly read.

Also I apologized for the insult and said it was stupid of me, but apparently you didn't read that.

Also I realized that you were just imitating him because I mixed the posters up. The quoting system here is weird and I mixed people up.

Also, reporting me, even if I was a troll or something, wouldn't really do anything to stop me...

[lukandroll]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Actually, since you have less shields in ME2, the small boosts, while not huge, make a bigger difference. For example adding all the shield boosters together makes a difference, even in Insanity. So your point is pretty void. I'm not going to deny it isn't extrodinarly differen't from ME, but than again, I could also view it as you attacking yourself. I mean you defend the system in ME, but attack the system in ME2 which isn't drasticly different.

Also, your little post at the end made you look like a moron, you did a horrible job mocking his post. Here's tip, next time you do it, don't act like a ******.

Reported for insults.
And for your information, I was imitating a ******, the original poster.

And about your point on the shield, that's completely BS, I tried all this supposed stats, and the difference Its lo little that again, you end up swithching amor only for cosmetic values....

And you're wrong again, look on the other page I already say that ME1 had problems aswell, I even posted some solutions for these problems.

So next time, before calling me a ******, be a little more mature, and read the whole thing.
Selective reading, FTW!

I didn't selectivly read.

Also I apologized for the insult and said it was stupid of me, but apparently you didn't read that.

Also I realized that you were just imitating him because I mixed the posters up. The quoting system here is weird and I mixed people up.

Also, reporting me, even if I was a troll or something, wouldn't really do anything to stop me...

Ah, well never mind mate.
Cheers!

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Now your making me really feel bad >.>'

[lukandroll]

newcomplex wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

One cannot argue that the dumbed down systems are more "immersive", just as much as waist high boxes lined up in neat rows are. Party members have NO armor, NONE. Don't fark up my RPG just because you're too lazy to play one, go play Modern Warfare 2 if all you care about are weapon choice and abilities.

Please, tell me what was the distinction between party armor in the first game?

Heavy Titan Armor-
Damage Protection 66
Sheilds 300
Tech/Biotic Protection 18

Heavy Collosus armor-
Damage protection 66
Sheilds 450
Tech Biotic Protection 18


LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

Also, How's ME2 better on that regard??

Armor 1
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more shields

Armor 2
Damage Protection: Unknown
Shields: Unknown
Tech/Biotic: Unknown
Gives 1% more health

LUL DID IS SO HARD AND STRATEGIC WICH DO I PIK LUL

LUL I GOING TO MAEK STUFF UP TO PRUF A POINT LUL.

My post was valid because it uses actual in game numbers, not the numbers your anus secretes.

In case your genuinely retarded and not trolling, I'll be kind and provide a response.   Their is literally not a single scenario in the entire game you will be choosing between 1% health and 1% sheilds.   The majority armor slots do not ask for you to make the disctinction between identical amounts of sheilds, or heatlh, because the two values are somewhat similar.   Only helmets and chestpieces      Then, theirs the fact that most commonly, you'll be asked to choose between, say "25% more melee damage, 3% more weapons damage, 5% more powers damage, or 5% more health", or 10% more health, 10% faster runspeed, 10% ammo capacity (heavy weapons) or 3% more sheilds (very low value in comparison to health)

Second, ME1 allowd a single piece of armor that determined your defensive stats.   Their was no strategic distinction between them.   ME2 allows five.    So its not asking you to choose between 5% more health, but totally, gearing for health allows you to have 30% more health.   In other words, nearly 200 more health on a solide a 130% increase.   On classes with inherent health boosts, you would get over 100 health.    Alternatively, you could get pure damage, and get almost 15% more weapons damage.    With a standard, upgraded revenant or a sniper rifle, that creates a whopping 60 dps difference.     On weaker weapons like SMG's, the difference is still over 30 dps, rather signficant.   Or else, you could tech for powers, getting 20% to powers damage.   That is equivilent to investing two levels in a level 4 spell. 

So...

100-200 health

vs.

30-60 more dps, or two additional weapon upgrades.   Against vulnerable enemies, this equals over 120 more dps.   

vs

two additional ranks in all your nukes, or 60-180 (on enemies its critically effective on) more damage on a level 4 spell.

LUL DERES NO DIFFERENCE

Don't know where to start...well
1) In case you didn't notice the incredible and ridiculous amount of sarcasm in my post, I like to clarify this, I was clearly mocking you.. 
2) So you took the time to write a long and good explanation of why you believe what you believe, and you ruin it adding childish insults on it??? LUL, GUD JOB.
3) The numbers you provide are completely AIR, because there is no way to tell that (other than guessing) , how much damage your shield take, or how much damage your shepard does in real numbers. ME2 doesn't provide stats so you can't really know any of this.
In any case, even if you stack armors to provide a better bonus, they make little to no difference in battle, (I especificaly tested out the damage bonus with the widow the other day)
So my point is still intact, the bonus that this armor parts end up giving, are not enough to make a difference, so you'll end up choosing what armor "looks" better, rather of what is more "strategicaly" better.
4) ME1 had the tactical benneficts of a armor modding system which you conviniently omited. So even if you had a similar armor you could mod it to perform different.
5) I'd never said, that ME1 system was perfect, as matter of fact, I clearly stated that some gear in ME1 was redundant and pointless.

Modifié par lukandroll, 03 mars 2010 - 02:27 .

[A Fhaol Bhig]

luk wins.

[addiction21]

I miss the modding system from ME1 not the copy/paste guns and armor. Yes I would like to of been able to do something about my henchmens armor and customize it some in ME2 and hope it makes a return in the next game.