107 réponses à ce sujet

[Kahlmulandr]

I can only hope that even half of whats written in his log is put into ME3. On another note though im still shooting him for the 'Reapers' comment....just maybe not in the head anymore.

[vigna]

:Genuinely excited: If only this were true. it would make saving the council worth it.

[binaryemperor]

I really like this idea. The thought that the Turian Council member was not dropped on his head in the larval stage is very refreshing.

[babylonfreak]

I don't think the council is really that unrealistically disbelieving. I have trouble thinking that if a Delta-Force field commander came to the President with a story of ancient synthetic-organic machine demons that have destroyed the Galaxy every 50,000 years since the dawn of time, and brings him a piece of metal with some organic mush pasted to it, he would go "of course" and mobilize the US Army into full war setting. Far more believable that Northwest Koriranistan was building a supergun capable of launching a nuclear warhead across the globe. Sure it seems beyond the capacity of a third tier dictatorship, but it's more believable to think they managed to hide it than the alternative offered by the Delta-Force guy. Especially if before he was Delta-Force he was a British SAS guy who still has ties with the Royal Navy.

[Beholderess]

An interesting idea.

I would really like it to be truth.

Besides, it would make the Council much more believable

[CROAT_56]

good idea i hope they do something like this

[Kr0gan]

I really hope this is what is going on.

[CROAT_56]

OP should be hired at BW or give them the rights to that little tid-bit of awesome. if this is what the council was really doing i would be OK with the Turrians actions during ME2 not that i don't understand why they don't believe me.



Bump

[noobzor99]

we can hope...

[Computron2000]

CROAT_56 wrote...
OP should be hired at BW or give them the rights to that little tid-bit of awesome. if this is what the council was really doing i would be OK with the Turrians actions during ME2 not that i don't understand why they don't believe me.

It would not work in a game, not unless there was a bloody long explaination on why they did the things they did. And then still people would be abusing BW because they skipped the dialogue. Putting it into the codex would be worse than a shown explaination as well.

The number of people who don't get why ME2's council does the things they do, are already pointing out the number of people who need everything little thing explained to them and/or the number of people do *must* have the council's reactions as *they* see it (ie only their opinion counts, screw how other people react).

Doing a plot twist like that would only create more outcry from said players.

[Whereto]

i like it......shame it wont be there though we can hope we guess

[Skyblade012]

Thanks for the support on this guys.



The Council in ME2 being so negative seemed to be implemented as a means of keeping Shepard out in the Terminus systems and away from such a powerful support network. Since ME3 is looking to be all about the support of allies, they will probably take a new point of view, and I am hoping that this is how they'll do it.

[Kenshen]

They threaten me with treason and then tell me to watch my back. I don't care what the thought process is my Shep is not the one that better be watching there back. To bad we probably won't get a chance to go down that road. Nice write up never the less.

[Sharn01]

I feel everyone has the right to play the game as they see fit, but its kind of rediculous that people get upset that an NPC is a jerk to Shepard when they make all renegade decision's and Shepard is a jerk first. If you run around insulting people constantly, some of them are going to insult you back.



another bump for the OP, I really liked your outlook on the council.

[NvVanity]

OP I think you might be right or at least very close to the truth. From reading Mass Effect Revelations you can tell the Council isn't as naive as they appear. I'm sure they're hiding something from Shepard because of his relations to Cerberus. I'm kind of surprised they didn't ask whats with the Cerberus logo on everything I own.

[tropicalwave]

babylonfreak wrote...

I don't think the council is really that unrealistically disbelieving. I have trouble thinking that if a Delta-Force field commander came to the President with a story of ancient synthetic-organic machine demons that have destroyed the Galaxy every 50,000 years since the dawn of time, and brings him a piece of metal with some organic mush pasted to it, he would go "of course" and mobilize the US Army into full war setting. Far more believable that Northwest Koriranistan was building a supergun capable of launching a nuclear warhead across the globe. Sure it seems beyond the capacity of a third tier dictatorship, but it's more believable to think they managed to hide it than the alternative offered by the Delta-Force guy. Especially if before he was Delta-Force he was a British SAS guy who still has ties with the Royal Navy.

Yes but you forget the part about "the civilization that came before mysteriously disappeared before and we are using their technology today and we do not fully understand it.  And we have some evidence that this is not the first time this has happened"

[Beholderess]

Sharn01 wrote...

I feel everyone has the right to play the game as they see fit, but its kind of rediculous that people get upset that an NPC is a jerk to Shepard when they make all renegade decision's and Shepard is a jerk first. If you run around insulting people constantly, some of them are going to insult you back.

another bump for the OP, I really liked your outlook on the council.

Well, I don't remember my full paragon Shepard ever insulting the Council, yet the turian is still busy being a jerk=)
Would be happy to learn that he has a reason for it.

By the way, are the names of the councilors ever mentioned anywhere? Qurious to know.

[Mnemnosyne]

It's an interesting theory, and would be awesome if it turns out to be true, unfortunately the fact that we're given no hints in this direction makes me seriously doubt it.



In ME1, the Council is mostly portrayed as relatively reasonable. If we buy the "lack of evidence" story that somehow Saren magically left no trace of his presence on Eden Prime, it's entirely reasonable for them to doubt Shepard's claims in this regard. After all, only two individuals even saw Saren on Eden Prime: Manuel and Powell, neither of which make a really trustworthy witness - one is admitted to be unstable from even before the attack (he has meds he regularly takes, apparently) and the other is a smuggler. The possibility that it is indeed Anderson pursuing some sort of grudge against Saren is an eminently reasonable one.



Afterward, their reactions tend to be pretty reasonable. The turian is always hostile, but the Salarian and the Asari are reasonable in almost every instance. While they doubt Shepard's claims of reapers, they also explain why they can't suddenly mobilize or take action - their decisions affect trillions of lives, the word of even a Spectre isn't enough for them to take that kind of action, and that's why the Spectres are authorized to do whatever they have to.



The only point at which they seem utterly unreasonable in ME1 is when they conspire with Udina to prevent Shepard from doing exactly that - pursuing the matter as she sees fit. The Lockdown stage was the unreasonable moment for the Council, if they had simply said 'we can't send a fleet, but you can go in the Normandy since it's a stealth ship, just don't cause a diplomatic incident or we'll have to disavow ourselves of your actions and claim you went rogue in your obsession for revenge against Saren' they would have been seen as completely reasonable and logical throughout the entire first game.



In ME2, however, everyone seems pretty convinced that they're burying their heads in the sand intentionally, and there isn't even a hint to the contrary, that I can find. If there was even a slight indication that their ignorance is just a facade, one hint, I'd be ready to accept that and expect some sort of turnaround, but as it is, I seriously doubt the Council is going to suddenly show themselves to have been faking.

[tropicalwave]

@Computron2000 I say let them cry-out!! I for one would love it and it wouldn't be too difficult to add into with the meeting with the council.

[Elessar267]

tropicalwave wrote...

babylonfreak wrote...

I don't think the council is really that unrealistically disbelieving. I have trouble thinking that if a Delta-Force field commander came to the President with a story of ancient synthetic-organic machine demons that have destroyed the Galaxy every 50,000 years since the dawn of time, and brings him a piece of metal with some organic mush pasted to it, he would go "of course" and mobilize the US Army into full war setting. Far more believable that Northwest Koriranistan was building a supergun capable of launching a nuclear warhead across the globe. Sure it seems beyond the capacity of a third tier dictatorship, but it's more believable to think they managed to hide it than the alternative offered by the Delta-Force guy. Especially if before he was Delta-Force he was a British SAS guy who still has ties with the Royal Navy.

Yes but you forget the part about "the civilization that came before mysteriously disappeared before and we are using their technology today and we do not fully understand it.  And we have some evidence that this is not the first time this has happened"

What evidence?  A virtual intelligence that doesn't work?  Magical visions from broken pieces of technology that only you can see?  And even if they do believe it and are taking actions against it, do you really think they're going to tell somebody who possibly works for Cerberus, possibly with someone loyal to Cerberus in their party (Miranda on the Presidium with you, anyone?), what their plans are?

Honestly, I don't get why people think the Council SHOULD believe them.  I don't get why Shepard believes the Council SHOULD believe her, except that she's right.  Hell, if I were on the Council?  *I* wouldn't believe Shepard.  Everything we see about the Reapers really does have to be seen to be believed, unless you are trusted implicitly.  The Council has no reason to trust you implicitly, especially when trillions of lives are at stake - how can they be expected to just hand the keys of the kingdom to one Spectre who they created, basically, as a political ploy?

Yes, a political ploy.

Look at it.  They send a Spectre to human space to monitor an exceptional Alliance soldier for possible Spectre status.  The monitoring Spectre dies.  The humans provide incontrovertible evidence that, not only did a force of synthetics attack their world and kill huge numbers of their people without reason and without warning, but that they were led by another Spectre, what are they supposed to do?

If they send a fleet to attack the geth, the quarians will be pissed off that they're not involved.  Not only that, but they'd have to go through the Terminus Systems, which would provoke open war with the batarians.  If they send another Spectre, with the way Spectres work, no one will know about it, and it will look like they're doing nothing.  If humans see the Council looking like they're doing nothing, they'll be angry, and it will be a public relations nightmare.

If they create a human Spectre to do it, they solve all of their problems at once.  They have someone dealing with the situation, so no one can say they're doing nothing.  The fact that a human Spectre is doing it plays to humanity's desire to have more say in the galaxy, especially since the Systems Alliance will be getting the same reports as the Council, so they can't complain that nothing is getting done.  The news that there is a human Spectre will quickly crowd out the attack on a human colony in news cycles.

They didn't make Shepard a Spectre to actually solve the problem of the attack on Eden Prime - they made Shepard a Spectre to solve their political problem of looking like they're trying to solve the problem of the attack on Eden Prime.  They don't actually have any respect for Shepard as a Spectre throughout Mass Effect 1, essentially sending her on a wild goose chase.  You succeed despite, not because of, the Council's actions.

They may be the rulers of the known galaxy, but first and foremost, they are politicians.

[Man785]

I enjoyed the read. It was a nice take on the Council. In the first book it makes mention of how experienced the Council is, so I kind of like how this ties in with the book.

Oh and Bioware better switch gears of the presentation of the council early in ME3 because my Paragon Shep is totally regretting the sacrifice of the Human Fleet. My Shep might have to take "Corrective Actions" for the good of Citadel Space.

Modifié par Man785, 01 mars 2010 - 02:02 .

[Sharn01]

Saw a similer topic on the mainpage, so bumping.

[Deco Bryl]

Skyblade, that was a fantastic read! :happy: I'm awfully impressed you were able to imagine a positive side to the story of ME2. You've restored my hope for a positive ME3. Plus, I love that your Shepard is female. Female Shepard RAWKS! 

Modifié par Deco Bryl, 02 mars 2010 - 10:02 .

[luk3us]

Very good.



But I prefer to think of that Turian as an idiot.

[Finraelin]

Great work Skyblade. One can only hope that's whats going on. Sorry about the 7 day necro but this one deserves not to vanish.