129 réponses à ce sujet

[Feraele]

JBC4733 wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

JBC4733 wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Just give the credit to Riordan. The man deserves it.

I still don't understand why he tried to do it alone.. unless I missed a major point there.

He didn't tried to do it alone...it is just that since he's the eldest of the wardens at that time, priority is to him to slay the Archdemon, if he fails then it is up to the other wardens... he didnt mean to hog the glory...

Was it priority on fighting the Archdemon, or priority on striking the final blow?

Well Riordan DID manage to cripple the Archdemon somewhat...I mean it couldn't fly that far away..it was stuck on the roof of Fort Drakon...so maybe thats what he intended in a way.    To bring it down so it COULD be killed..hence his self-sacrifice.    He did get it good a couple times, a good deep stab in the back while he was having that wild ride around the towers.

And then the final long slash in one of the Archdemon's wings.  Think he sliced it all the way down to the tip, which would make it useless for flying too far. 

Riordan did his part, but I do think he meant for more than that to happen, just couldn't hang on long enough.

[Feraele]

zaim298 wrote...

Champion1 wrote...

Well the ritual does use blood in a way. The Archdemon has to die for it to work, so that's a lot of blood!

Plus the child is going to have the soul of a purified Tevinter "Old God"... who the hell knows what that means...

hmm i guess you have a point on the lot of blood part, but i never really thought Morrigan saying blood ritual to mean as blood magic, i thought it have something to do with the baby having tainted blood... ah well... i withdraw my case.. lol

The Old God's soul was purified ..from the taint when it went into the embryo.  It is no longer tainted, so when it grows up it won't be an Archdemon.

[zaim298]

BostonVamp wrote...

You don't know exactly what when on during the ritual. For some religions, the mixing or sharing of blood is important...remember, the blood is the life. Of course, there are other pagan religions where the Great Rite is a ritual sex act that is either symbolic or actually performed. I laughed out loud when this was mentioned. Someone did their research!

true...but we need to fit into description of  "blood magic" as defined in the dragon age world.

Maria Caliban wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

wait what? the dark ritual involves blood magic?

Yes, it's a form of blood magic. That's why it's dark instead the day-glo ritual.

how does Dark has any bearing on implying something is blood magic? as I said before, Maleficarum is practictioner of magic that is not recognized by the chantry...forbidden magic like blood magic and dark magic...and blood magic is a specific branch of magic on its own. so yes i admit by what morrigan said that it is forbidden old ancient magic (and said it may be called blood magic by some)...but it doesn't 100% suggest the dark ritual IS blood magic...*sigh*

[zaim298]

Feraele wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

Champion1 wrote...

Well the ritual does use blood in a way. The Archdemon has to die for it to work, so that's a lot of blood!

Plus the child is going to have the soul of a purified Tevinter "Old God"... who the hell knows what that means...

hmm i guess you have a point on the lot of blood part, but i never really thought Morrigan saying blood ritual to mean as blood magic, i thought it have something to do with the baby having tainted blood... ah well... i withdraw my case.. lol

The Old God's soul was purified ..from the taint when it went into the embryo.  It is no longer tainted, so when it grows up it won't be an Archdemon.

*sigh* i know, but i'm just saying and explaining what does anything suggested have anything to do with Blood Magic at all...not just the baby and stuff...

[joey_mork84]

Seriously, I don't see any signs of blood magic in the ritual. It was explained very simply in-game when you talk to Morrigan about it beforehand. You "do the nasty" with her, she gets pregnant. The Archdemon's soul naturally goes for the baby because of the taint in its blood and that it's the purest vessel. Where does this tie in with ANY magic, let alone blood magic?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

joey_mork84 wrote...

Seriously, I don't see any signs of blood magic in the ritual. It was explained very simply in-game when you talk to Morrigan about it beforehand. You "do the nasty" with her, she gets pregnant. The Archdemon's soul naturally goes for the baby because of the taint in its blood and that it's the purest vessel. Where does this tie in with ANY magic, let alone blood magic?

There is an actual ritual involved, and it's not just sex.

Originally the 'cutscene' of Morrigan + Male Grey Warden was going to involve a bit more than the kinky stuff to make it more obvious, but it was left out. They mention it somewhere on the forum, but I'm not going to look for the link.

[joey_mork84]

That may have been what was planned but what actually happened in-game and made it to completion was explained by Morrigan and is, as you put it, just sex.

Modifié par joey_mork84, 23 février 2010 - 06:50 .

[joey_mork84]

Makes more since this way, IMO.... Why have a complicated ritual happen that involves either 'this' kind of magic or 'that' kind, when it can have the same outcome, less explanation, and a simpler process that makes more sense?

[zaim298]

well a ritual is only a symbolic value, and sometimes does involve magic at its core. Everything is vague so far about The Dark Ritual and its nature. I'm not dismissing the possibility of magic involves. The only facts we have so far on discussing whether the Dark Ritual is Blood Magic or not are:
1. Morrigan did say it is an ancient ritual and some may call it blood magic
2. Maleficar is practitioner of forbidden magic or magic banned by the Chantry and the circle. There are many forms of forbidden magic.
3. Blood Magic is one of the forbidden magic.
4. No sacrificing of blood or life force involves: mentioned or seen in the game.

Again, I'm not dismissing the possibilies of the Dark Ritual being Blood Magic, but also we can't be 100% say it is Blood Magic. Until we have solid concrete fact I'm not going to say Dark Ritual is Blood Magic. Unless BioWare or the Dragon Age team say it is or we're given in game statement that it definitely is.

Also, I don't see how killing the Archdemon as a form of sacrificing blood or life force at all, given the tainted baby factor have no bearing at all for the Archdemon demise.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Actually, I think it would make less sense if ONLY sex was involved, if only because the probability of Grey Wardens having children are so low (even with people who aren't tainted). Morrigan did say there was a magic ritual involved and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Sex was a part of it, but not the entirety.

[rizla1888]

its magic that involves the blood of darkspawn so it is blood magic

[joey_mork84]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Actually, I think it would make less sense if ONLY sex was involved, if only because the probability of Grey Wardens having children are so low (even with people who aren't tainted). Morrigan did say there was a magic ritual involved and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Sex was a part of it, but not the entirety.

Morrigan said there was a ritual involved, yes, and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Neither of those make it any kind of magic. As someone stated before, no blood was needed for the ritual, so therefore, it can not be blood magic. And I agree, sex was not the entire thing. It was just a part of it all.

[joey_mork84]

rizla1888 wrote...

its magic that involves the blood of darkspawn so it is blood magic

What part of the 'ritual' involved blood? The fact that the Archdemon's soul being drawn to darkspawn or tainted blood has nothing to do with performing the ritual. As was said already, the Archdemon's soul was going to go for tainted blood, no matter if you did the ritual or not.

EDIT: For that matter, what part of the ritual involved magic? The part where they made a baby or the part where you kill the Archdemon?

Modifié par joey_mork84, 23 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[blademaster7]

Alistair tells you that the Grey Wardens from Orlais have been sending questions of how you survived(if you did the ritual yourself Alistair has no clue what happened either).

I wonder what you're supposed to tell them... certainly not the truth.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

joey_mork84 wrote...

Morrigan said there was a ritual involved, yes, and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Neither of those make it any kind of magic.

True. Her word alone does not make it so.

As someone stated before, no blood was needed for the ritual, so therefore, it can not be blood magic.

Here I argue that we did not see the magic components of the ritual, whether or not blood was involved. I am not saying it was blood magic, I was only quoting Morrigan. It may have been. Personally I don't see how it matters either way.

And I agree, sex was not the entire thing. It was just a part of it all.

That we agree on.

[Maria Caliban]

zaim298 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

wait what? the dark ritual involves blood magic?

Yes, it's a form of blood magic. That's why it's dark instead the day-glo ritual.

how does Dark has any bearing on implying something is blood magic?

The blood magic ritual is called dark for the same reason the darkspawn are called the darkspawn - because in the English language 'dark' as the connotations of sinister, malevolent, and even evil. It’s a way for the writers to say ‘hey, remember that this isn’t a happy, shiny ritual Morrigan conjured up cause she’s such a sweet and nice gal.’

...but it doesn't 100% suggest the dark ritual IS blood magic...*sigh*

Of course it doesn’t 100% suggest. The fact that Morrigan calls it blood magic, and that it uses the taint in the Grey Warden’s blood to create a connection to the archdemon is what ‘100% suggests.’

[Silensfurtim]

funny how lots of people are affected by the future of their favorite morrigan and baby.

[Barbarossa2010]

blademaster7 wrote...

Alistair tells you that the Grey Wardens from Orlais have been sending questions of how you survived(if you did the ritual yourself Alistair has no clue what happened either).

I wonder what you're supposed to tell them... certainly not the truth.

Agreed, it would be a bit awkward to attempt to explain to your comrade Wardens that you survived dealing a death blow on an Archdemon because a swamp witch ("You all remember Flemeth, right?...It was her daughter btw) convinced you to perform a "ritual" that would attract the "essence" of the very thing your Order exists to destroy. 

Yeah, the truth would best be left unsaid.

[blademaster7]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Alistair tells you that the Grey Wardens from Orlais have been sending questions of how you survived(if you did the ritual yourself Alistair has no clue what happened either).

I wonder what you're supposed to tell them... certainly not the truth.

Agreed, it would be a bit awkward to attempt to explain to your comrade Wardens that you survived dealing a death blow on an Archdemon because a swamp witch ("You all remember Flemeth, right?...It was her daughter btw) convinced you to perform a "ritual" that would attract the "essence" of the very thing your Order exists to destroy. 

Yeah, the truth would best be left unsaid.

Heh.. the rest of the Grey Wardens are the least of your concern. Think what would happen if word gets to the chantry that you made a deal with an apostate to bring an Old God to the world.

The people of Ferelden are sheep. If the chantry says you're a traitor then no one would care about your heroic actions. You'll get buried.

[zaim298]

Maria Caliban wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

wait what? the dark ritual involves blood magic?

Yes, it's a form of blood magic. That's why it's dark instead the day-glo ritual.

how does Dark has any bearing on implying something is blood magic?

The blood magic ritual is called dark for the same reason the darkspawn are called the darkspawn - because in the English language 'dark' as the connotations of sinister, malevolent, and even evil. It’s a way for the writers to say ‘hey, remember that this isn’t a happy, shiny ritual Morrigan conjured up cause she’s such a sweet and nice gal.’

...but it doesn't 100% suggest the dark ritual IS blood magic...*sigh*

Of course it doesn’t 100% suggest. The fact that Morrigan calls it blood magic, and that it uses the taint in the Grey Warden’s blood to create a connection to the archdemon is what ‘100% suggests.’

Did u even read what I just wrote? Blood Magic is Dark but Dark doesn't mean it is Blood Magic. Same like saying Square is a Shape, Shape isn't just Square. There are many forms of Dark Magic or Forbidden Magic (dragonagewikia and codex), one of them is Blood Magic. Ancient Tevinter magic is also categorized as Dark Magic.

Morrigan exact words are "some would call it blood magic". That is an up in the air statement open to various interpretations. It is common knowledge among people that blood magic is forbidden, and because the Dark Ritual is ancient magic some will agree and see it as blood magic. It is not the same as saying "it is blood magic".

And using the taint of a Grey Warden as the connection to blood sacrifice? You gotta be kidding me right? How does that affect the nature of anything at all? Without the Dark Ritual, the taint in the Grey Warden will "attract" the soul of the Old-God when it is slain. With the Dark Ritual, the taint in the baby will "attract" the soul of the Old-God when it is slain. So tell me here at which point does 1) the sacrificing of blood or life force happen? 2) the taint is the connection to blood magic?

Either the baby is there or not, the Archdemon will die, and either the baby is there or not, the Old-God soul will search for a new host.

If we follow the reasoning of some that the tainted blood IS how this can be called Blood Magic, then the Grey Wardens themselves is using Blood Magical mean to slay the Archdemon and sacrifice themselves? Now that is just ridiculous.

All the Dark Ritual provide is an alternate vessel to trap the Old-God soul. So far no one knows how the Ritual is performs. Did Morrigan splattered blood or drink blood or slit her wrist or anything like that before sleeping with the warden? who knows. We can only use in-game evidence to prove our viewpoint and claim, and use the in-game data and codexes and official and approved infos from BioWare. Again I repeat, there are many forms of Dark and Forbidden magics according to the codexes and dragonaga.wikia.

So no, you can't say for sure that the Dark Ritual is most definitely Blood Magic.

[atheelogos]

joey_mork84 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Forest03 wrote...

^ Open, indeed.

It's easy to call the "dark ritual" a form of blood magic. However, there is no sacrifice of anyone's blood or life force involved.

So killing the Archdemon doesn't count then?

Killing the Archdemon was going to happen no matter if you chose the Dark Ritual or not. Just because you chose the Dark Ritual doesn't change it from just killing the Archdemon to making a blood sacrifice.

Your missing the point. Yes the demon was going to die one way or the other but thats not what I was talking about. A sacrifice was needed for the ritual to work. I'm just stating that a life was given to fill that requirement.

[atheelogos]

zaim298 wrote...

BostonVamp wrote...

You don't know exactly what when on during the ritual. For some religions, the mixing or sharing of blood is important...remember, the blood is the life. Of course, there are other pagan religions where the Great Rite is a ritual sex act that is either symbolic or actually performed. I laughed out loud when this was mentioned. Someone did their research!

true...but we need to fit into description of  "blood magic" as defined in the dragon age world.

Maria Caliban wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

wait what? the dark ritual involves blood magic?

Yes, it's a form of blood magic. That's why it's dark instead the day-glo ritual.

how does Dark has any bearing on implying something is blood magic? as I said before, Maleficarum is practictioner of magic that is not recognized by the chantry...forbidden magic like blood magic and dark magic...and blood magic is a specific branch of magic on its own. so yes i admit by what morrigan said that it is forbidden old ancient magic (and said it may be called blood magic by some)...but it doesn't 100% suggest the dark ritual IS blood magic...*sigh*

What your saying makes no sense. Why would bioware spend 50 hours of gameplay hyping up the lore on blood on the blood magic, and then at the end throw in some other type magic that the player knows nothing about?

There would be no context if they did that.

[atheelogos]

rizla1888 wrote...

its magic that involves the blood of darkspawn so it is blood magic

Simple explanation... I like it:)

[atheelogos]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Actually, I think it would make less sense if ONLY sex was involved, if only because the probability of Grey Wardens having children are so low (even with people who aren't tainted). Morrigan did say there was a magic ritual involved and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Sex was a part of it, but not the entirety.

Good points there. I don't see why this is so hard for others to get. The nature of it is obviously magical.

[Suilebhain]

JBC4733 wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Just give the credit to Riordan. The man deserves it.

I still don't understand why he tried to do it alone.. unless I missed a major point there. It just kinda seemed like the cliche type of heroism.

Riorden was feeling his age and the effects of the taint. remember, when you take in the taint, you basically limit your warranty, thirty years tops, then usually head down to the Deep Roads to go out in glorious battle. What better way to go out than taking down an Archdemon.

Besides, he was trying to save the younger ones, the next generation. It seems that the Wardens, more than anyone, understand loyalty to one's comrades.