129 réponses à ce sujet

[atheelogos]

joey_mork84 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Actually, I think it would make less sense if ONLY sex was involved, if only because the probability of Grey Wardens having children are so low (even with people who aren't tainted). Morrigan did say there was a magic ritual involved and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Sex was a part of it, but not the entirety.

Morrigan said there was a ritual involved, yes, and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Neither of those make it any kind of magic. As someone stated before, no blood was needed for the ritual, so therefore, it can not be blood magic. And I agree, sex was not the entire thing. It was just a part of it all.

"no blood was needed for the ritual" Hmmmm you forgot that the ritual doesn't work without the tainted blood of a young warden.

[Suilebhain]

atheelogos wrote...

What your saying makes no sense. Why would bioware spend 50 hours of gameplay hyping up the lore on blood on the blood magic, and then at the end throw in some other type magic that the player knows nothing about?

There would be no context if they did that.

You missed the point that, after 50 hours of lore, those who are spreading the lore know little about THE TRUTH. There are four schools of magic that the Chantry allows, that does not say that there are only four schools of magic! Shapeshifting is one that probably falls under a Nature or Life school if the humans knew enough about it.

Morrigan tells that there are other forms of magic that the Circle knows little about. Under the rule of the Chantry and threat of the templars, the Circle are like geldlings. Remember, the Chant of Light says "magic is meant to serve Man, and not rule over him" blah blah blah. That means that ignorance of magic is preferable to application of it.

It also means that it is possible for magic to rule over him, not just control him for a brief time, like Blood magic. That would indicate that there are other forms of magic deemed more dangerous that the Chantry is not allowing or admitting to the existence of.

[atheelogos]

Suilebhain wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

What your saying makes no sense. Why would bioware spend 50 hours of gameplay hyping up the lore on blood on the blood magic, and then at the end throw in some other type magic that the player knows nothing about?

There would be no context if they did that.

You missed the point that, after 50 hours of lore, those who are spreading the lore know little about THE TRUTH. There are four schools of magic that the Chantry allows, that does not say that there are only four schools of magic! Shapeshifting is one that probably falls under a Nature or Life school if the humans knew enough about it.

Morrigan tells that there are other forms of magic that the Circle knows little about. Under the rule of the Chantry and threat of the templars, the Circle are like geldlings. Remember, the Chant of Light says "magic is meant to serve Man, and not rule over him" blah blah blah. That means that ignorance of magic is preferable to application of it.

It also means that it is possible for magic to rule over him, not just control him for a brief time, like Blood magic. That would indicate that there are other forms of magic deemed more dangerous that the Chantry is not allowing or admitting to the existence of.

I agree. There are many types of magic that the people know nothing about. I'm just saying that all the basics for a blood magic ritual are there.
Sacrafice of life- Check
Blood- Check
So I conclude its blood magic. Not to mention the hints Morrigan throws at you in the conversation.

[zaim298]

Let me list out some reference from the codex for you:

1. Magic and Religion - Apostates - "... a maleficar is a mage who employs forbidden knowledge such as blood magic..."

I previously said that ritual is a symbolic gesture, anf more often than not associated with magic. I agree that the Dark Ritual does seem to involve magic for the reasons stated like "chance of reproducing is low".

2. Magic and Religion - Blood Magic: The Forbidden School - "...spells that can only be worked by blood..."

3. Magic and Religion - Maleficarum - "...fuel itself by harming others, by letting of blood,..." - regarding practitioner of Blood Magic.

This means sacrificing of blood to enable the casting or summoning of powerful magic instead of using mana or lyrium. So unless, during the Ritual such act are perform, the killing of the Archdemon has nothing to do with Blood Magic. And so far we know there is no sacrificing of tainted blood at all but just conception of a baby with a taint.

Now dragonage.wikia references:

1. "Blood Magic is described as being one of the more "sinister" types of magic."

2. "A maleficar is a mage who uses the forbidden arts, including, but not solely restricted to, blood magic.. A known maleficar is slain on sight by templars."

So we can say that there many different type of forbidden arts. Alistair saying Morrigan is a maleficar doesn't mean she's a blood mage. Morrigan saying it is "an ancient ritual" doesn't mean it is blood magic. "some would call it blood magic" is open for interpretation statement.


With all these evidence, how can someone be 100% sure the Dark Ritual is blood magic is beyond me.

[zaim298]

and yet again, the taint...how hard is it to understand the taint is in the blood, but conception of the baby doesn't require the blood, only the taint...sacrificing of life? as in the archdemon? i don't see how that can be categorized as sacrifice...



ok cut the crap... i ain't debating anymore... this is never gona end until Dragon Age team says black and white... lol... and sorry if i bore u guys so much... i'm not mad or anything, we all have opinions and we share it rofl...

[Deception_2112]

Technically the Arcane Warrior is another talent that the Circle Mages know nothing about...



I wouldn't neccesarily say that what Morrigan employed to save the Warden's is Blood Magic either, just another line of magic that has been forgotten, but it IS possible that it's Blood Magic, just not guaranteed.



Still i hope we see more forms of Magic eventually that is unique to the PC

[zaim298]

ooh yes, i definitely wanna see more kind of magic... so far my favourites are the entropy... arcane warrior and blood magic is awesome too...



i cant wait to see what kind of spells they're gona introduce in awakening

[JBC4733]

Suilebhain wrote...

JBC4733 wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Just give the credit to Riordan. The man deserves it.

I still don't understand why he tried to do it alone.. unless I missed a major point there. It just kinda seemed like the cliche type of heroism.

Riorden was feeling his age and the effects of the taint. remember, when you take in the taint, you basically limit your warranty, thirty years tops, then usually head down to the Deep Roads to go out in glorious battle. What better way to go out than taking down an Archdemon.

Besides, he was trying to save the younger ones, the next generation. It seems that the Wardens, more than anyone, understand loyalty to one's comrades.

I understand his intent. It just seemed that being able to take on the Archdemon alone would be a huge stretch. I like what Feraele pointed out, though -- he DID cripple the Archdemon, and get it stuck on the roof of Fort Drakon. If the Archdemon had still been able to fly long distances, then the tide of battle would have been completely turned.

[joey_mork84]

atheelogos wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Actually, I think it would make less sense if ONLY sex was involved, if only because the probability of Grey Wardens having children are so low (even with people who aren't tainted). Morrigan did say there was a magic ritual involved and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Sex was a part of it, but not the entirety.

Morrigan said there was a ritual involved, yes, and that some would call it 'blood magic'. Neither of those make it any kind of magic. As someone stated before, no blood was needed for the ritual, so therefore, it can not be blood magic. And I agree, sex was not the entire thing. It was just a part of it all.

"no blood was needed for the ritual" Hmmmm you forgot that the ritual doesn't work without the tainted blood of a young warden.

Yes, but that blood is not spilled for the ritual to happen. That is what blood magic is all about. Just because it has to do with tainted blood doesn't make it blood magic. If it did, wouldn't the Joining be considered blood magic? You are, in fact, drinking tainted blood.

[joey_mork84]

atheelogos wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Forest03 wrote...

^ Open, indeed.

It's easy to call the "dark ritual" a form of blood magic. However, there is no sacrifice of anyone's blood or life force involved.

So killing the Archdemon doesn't count then?

Killing the Archdemon was going to happen no matter if you chose the Dark Ritual or not. Just because you chose the Dark Ritual doesn't change it from just killing the Archdemon to making a blood sacrifice.

Your missing the point. Yes the demon was going to die one way or the other but thats not what I was talking about. A sacrifice was needed for the ritual to work. I'm just stating that a life was given to fill that requirement.

I didn't miss any point. The Archdemon was going to die, yes. The ritual relied on the death of the Archdemon so that it could take place, yes. But the act of killing it does not make it blood magic. The death of the Archdemon is not a 'sacrifice'.

[zaim298]

lol... we're still arguing about this??... can i join in? =P

[atheelogos]

zaim298 wrote...

lol... we're still arguing about this??... can i join in? =P

I wouldn't. I'm trying to stay away. lol

[joey_mork84]

zaim298 wrote...

lol... we're still arguing about this??... can i join in? =P

yea, i just couldn't help myself lol

[zaim298]

atheelogos wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

lol... we're still arguing about this??... can i join in? =P

I wouldn't. I'm trying to stay away. lol

lol. yeah. no point in arguing anymore. time will tell.

right now i'm juz excited about the new spec and spells and talents for Awakening. the prospect of spending hours and hours playing trying to build the ultimate characters.

joey_mork84 wrote...

zaim298 wrote...

lol... we're still arguing about this??... can i join in? =P

yea, i just couldn't help myself lol

lol... i understand the feeling...

Modifié par zaim298, 24 février 2010 - 12:32 .

[joey_mork84]

Yea, it bugged me so I looked it up lmao.. It's all good, tho..

[Fishy]

Seriously .. We will all learn about this in 2011 with DA:2 .. Hell maybe in the expansion we might learn more about the Dark Ritual.Who know.

[joey_mork84]

Suprez30 wrote...

Seriously .. We will all learn about this in 2011 with DA:2 .. Hell maybe in the expansion we might learn more about the Dark Ritual.Who know.

Party pooper.. lmao jk

[joey_mork84]

Thread officially dead. Time of death: 7:00 p.m. Central Time on Tuesday, February 23, 2010..



hahahaha....

[zaim298]

It is not dead... I'm still gathering evidence and clues regarding the Dark Ritual... =P

[joey_mork84]

zaim298 wrote...

It is not dead... I'm still gathering evidence and clues regarding the Dark Ritual... =P

Oh, lol I thought we already did that.. Pretty much all of us on here did lmao

[Armchairsquid]

Imo i don't feel that the dark ritual is blood magic per say, more soul magic if you like. As the fetuses pure soul purifys the taint from that of the archdemon while being destroyed in the process leaving a host for the old god.



The tainted blood of the father provides a link or pathway between the two but doesn't actively power the magic at hand this is done by the soul.



The joining may be blood magic it depends on how you view the dragon cults reaver process if thats blood magic then so is the joining.

[joey_mork84]

Armchairsquid wrote...

Imo i don't feel that the dark ritual is blood magic per say, more soul magic if you like. As the fetuses pure soul purifys the taint from that of the archdemon while being destroyed in the process leaving a host for the old god.

The tainted blood of the father provides a link or pathway between the two but doesn't actively power the magic at hand this is done by the soul.

The joining may be blood magic it depends on how you view the dragon cults reaver process if thats blood magic then so is the joining.

The debate lives on!!!.. lol

[zaim298]

yay we got a bite...



**rolls in the catch**



the foetus is not pure, it is tainted. the point of the taint is so that when the Archdemon is killed, the soul of the Old-God will mistaking the tainted baby to another darkspawn. The wardens are full-breathing living human, it is a filled vessel if you like, thus two things cannot exist in one body hence the death of the wardens. the fetus on the other hand is a different form of existence and in its state it can host or contain the Old-God soul.



In the end the taint is just like a beacon for the Old-God soul.

[joey_mork84]

zaim298 wrote...

yay we got a bite...

**rolls in the catch**

the foetus is not pure, it is tainted. the point of the taint is so that when the Archdemon is killed, the soul of the Old-God will mistaking the tainted baby to another darkspawn. The wardens are full-breathing living human, it is a filled vessel if you like, thus two things cannot exist in one body hence the death of the wardens. the fetus on the other hand is a different form of existence and in its state it can host or contain the Old-God soul.

In the end the taint is just like a beacon for the Old-God soul.

Exactly! Thank you! lol

[Divine Justinia V]

 Enchantment!