48 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

congokurtz wrote...

Wow, you just had Smoking Aces thrown in your face. That's got to hurt.

By someone stating the obvious, none the less. Indeed, it smarts

[Terminus Pi]

It's a matter of taste and gameplay style, mostly.

As an Infiltrator, I always go for Mantis and then Widow.

I usually use the Incisor on Squadmates.

My usual combo is to take Zaeed and either Garrus, Thane or Legion, depending on who I'm going up against. Zaeed puts on the squad disruptor ammo against enemies with shields. That and the 3-shot burst of the incisor from the two squadmates is enough to strip down the shields, leaving the target open for me to use a headshot+assassination cloak+tungsten ammo combo and take almost every shielded enemy out with a single shot of the widow (full bonuses and visor headgear). Scion goes with 2 shots.

Using this strategy I have never ran out of ammo for the Widow. Even in the longest battles I end up with 4-5 shots left, out of a total capacity of 14. The point of being a true sniper is to fire your shots correctly so that every shot counts and not just squeeze the trigger multiple times till they're dead.

Even on situations like the collector ship or the derelict reaper, where husks keep swarming, the 2 squadmates with the incisor and squad shredder ammo keep them far at bay, allowing me to use powers and not waste ammo on foes that don't drop thermal clips.

But I must state again: this is MY gameplay style. Others do it differently and it works as well. That's why I love this game, there's a multitude of options and combos you can use that will work and still be perfectly adapted to your playing style.

[aeetos21]

viper

[Riot Inducer]

Terminus Pi wrote...

It's a matter of taste and gameplay style, mostly.
As an Infiltrator, I always go for Mantis and then Widow.
I usually use the Incisor on Squadmates.
 

For those of us without the Incisor, how would you say it compares in performance to the Viper? I'm very curious about this weapon, I've heard it's the end-all for squadmate use but not much else about it. 

[FredegarKadere]

The Incisor is a 3-shot burst weapon so you pull the trigger and it fires three shots. In the hands of a squad member that can equal numerous head shots in the span of a second. The Viper is to the Incisor as the Mantis is to the Widow.

The Incisor is almost lackluster in the hands of the player though. It can burn ammo fast, similar to the Vindicator Assault Rifle if you have used that weapon.

[Terminus Pi]

Riot Inducer wrote...

For those of us without the Incisor, how would you say it compares in performance to the Viper? I'm very curious about this weapon, I've heard it's the end-all for squadmate use but not much else about it. 

Basically, what Fredegar said.
It's extremely accurate, even on squadmates.
It fires 3 shots at such speeds, that they almost hit the target simultaneously.
Rapid fire is good against shields.
It's defenitely a must on squadmates, since they have infinite ammo.
It has good damage.
As for me, I tried it out for some time, but 3-shot bursts tend to eat up your ammo. my distinct feeling was that it outperformed the viper, though.
I still prefer the widow, but I won't hesitate on putting it on squadmates. It's like turning game difficulty down 2 notches

[Darkstar87uk]

On lower difficulty settings the Viper is good but I found it nearly worthless on insanity.

[Terminus Pi]

Darkstar87uk wrote...

On lower difficulty settings the Viper is good but I found it nearly worthless on insanity.

Really? Odd... I used it on squadmates on insanity and it performed just fine.
Or were you talking about using it yourself? If that is the case, then i didn't even like it on lower difficulty levels.

EDIT: Sorry, scratch that! I read Viper, but I was thinking Incisor. My bad

Modifié par Terminus Pi, 23 février 2010 - 07:30 .

[swk3000]

I have to agree: on Insanity, the Viper is useless. You may be able to rapid-fire, but that rapid-fire puts you out of cover for far too long. Hell, I've had times with the Mantis where I pop out to fire off a single shot, and by the time I get back in, I'm down to half of my Health bar.

[Johndoex9112]

Viper, because of it's ammo pool, and it does a fair amount of damage fully upgraded on insanity as well

[bbslayer_07]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

bbslayer_07 wrote...
...the viper can fire 12 less damaging shots at a faster rate before it has to reload and has roughly 4 times more ammo than the widow. In the end if you'd use every shot you had for the widow and the viper they'd both do around the same amount of total damage. So it comes down to personal choice, do you like burst or consistant damage?

One shot from the widow does more damage than 4 shots from the Viper.  Hardly the same amount of damage.

The only redeeming quality about the viper is that it is slightly more flexible against other types of defenses.  Other than that, you're simply exposing yourself for longer periods because you need more shots to take down a target.  In a game where the enemy has Shepard-Radar and each enemy has a personal vendetta against you, keeping yourself out of cover because you need more shots to down a target means you're simply going through the game at a very inefficient rate.

Your misunderstanding me, I mean the total damage a weapon has done after all the ammo has been used, the viper will deal 5184 damage total after all shots have been fired, and the widow will deal a total of 5156.2 damage total after all its ammo has been used. So in the long run their equal in terms of total damage output, with the viper you can afford mistakes and keep an enemy pinned under fire, and the widow is very unforgiving if you miss, cause it has less ammo than the viper, but can one shot people.

I've been only using the viper on my soldier and infiltrator, and if your using adreniline or cloak you really don't have to worry about exposing yourself, all other classes on the other hand do have to worry about that, but then again they can't get the widow.

So as I said before they have their different uses, but niether one is truly better than the other. For example my infiltartor has the widow, but I use the viper instead so once an enemies defences are down I can Ai hack/dominate them, cause I can't do that with a 1 shot, 1 kill weapon, and trying to do that with the widow would be waste of ammo.

[swk3000]

bbslayer_07 wrote...

if your using adreniline or cloak you really don't have to worry about exposing yourself

My post above, about nearly getting killed after a single shot? That's using Adrenaline Rush. The thing about Adrenaline Rush is that it doesn't stop time; it simply slows it down. Bullets are, by their very nature, very fast, so if an enemy is about to fire one just as you activate Adrenaline Rush, it will hit you while the ability is active. Combine this with the fact that most enemies seem to use Assault Rifles or SMG's, and you can get hurt really fast with just a few shots.

[We Tigers]

I prefer the Mantis to the Viper, but using the Viper does open up some fun gameplay options.  Although it's not the most efficient use of points, improved cryo on a viper can let you lock down the whole battlefield quickly.  It usually only takes 2 viper shots to get through to health on most enemies (since it also has a small boost against barriers/shields that the Mantis lacks), and a sniper shot with improved cryo is a guaranteed freeze.  With the sniper slowdown, one clip can let you ice up 4-5 enemies, whereas one of the bolt-action rifles probably would have let you kill two in that time.  Similarly, if you use teammates with strong powers against health (Samara, Mordin, Jack, and Grunt come to mind), the Viper can be good for stripping defenses really quickly and then using their powers, since you're a much better shot than your AI-powered buddies.  On higher difficulty levels, though, you better be cloaked to start or half-standing behind some high cover if you want to live through sending out a whole clip.

The Mantis (and later the Widow) suits my style of play as an infiltrator pretty well.  I probably get over half my kills from the sniper rifles, but also cloak-rush and make liberal use of SMG and pistol fire up close  I've actually found that the Predator pistol is a better choice than the Carnifex for this style of play: since you already have a powerful, low-ammo weapon, it's nice to be able to spray up close with a weapon that still eats through armor, then gets back a full reload with every clip.  The single-shot snipers let you reduce mobs and eliminate big threat flunkies (heavy weapons, Collector Assassins) quickly, and you can cloak-rush and flank the leftovers with your other guns.  Even though I rarely have ammo issues with the Mantis, it's definitely more fun (and probably more effective) to mix it up.

Modifié par We Tigers, 23 février 2010 - 07:57 .

[bbslayer_07]

swk3000 wrote...

bbslayer_07 wrote...

if your using adreniline or cloak you really don't have to worry about exposing yourself

My post above, about nearly getting killed after a single shot? That's using Adrenaline Rush. The thing about Adrenaline Rush is that it doesn't stop time; it simply slows it down. Bullets are, by their very nature, very fast, so if an enemy is about to fire one just as you activate Adrenaline Rush, it will hit you while the ability is active. Combine this with the fact that most enemies seem to use Assault Rifles or SMG's, and you can get hurt really fast with just a few shots.

Seriously? I'm playing on insanity right now as a vanguard with the viper and evi, and my shields don't even go down that fast. The only time the situation you mentioned happens to me is when my team mates are dead and I got 4 or more guys aiming for me. I think it might be cause the vanguard has barriers actually instead of shields, though I'm not sure the difference is that significant.

But I think your forgetting that while using AR both the player and ai's rate of fire is significantly decreased, the player however gets a 100% damage boost during Hard AR (plus 50% more damage protection) and 140% with Height AR, so you can kill enemies faster with less shots while under AR, so unless your completely pinned down I don't think you should be having that much trouble.

[swk3000]

bbslayer_07 wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

bbslayer_07 wrote...

if your using adreniline or cloak you really don't have to worry about exposing yourself

My post above, about nearly getting killed after a single shot? That's using Adrenaline Rush. The thing about Adrenaline Rush is that it doesn't stop time; it simply slows it down. Bullets are, by their very nature, very fast, so if an enemy is about to fire one just as you activate Adrenaline Rush, it will hit you while the ability is active. Combine this with the fact that most enemies seem to use Assault Rifles or SMG's, and you can get hurt really fast with just a few shots.

Seriously? I'm playing on insanity right now as a vanguard with the viper and evi, and my shields don't even go down that fast. The only time the situation you mentioned happens to me is when my team mates are dead and I got 4 or more guys aiming for me. I think it might be cause the vanguard has barriers actually instead of shields, though I'm not sure the difference is that significant.

But I think your forgetting that while using AR both the player and ai's rate of fire is significantly decreased, the player however gets a 100% damage boost during Hard AR (plus 50% more damage protection) and 140% with Height AR, so you can kill enemies faster with less shots while under AR, so unless your completely pinned down I don't think you should be having that much trouble.

Keep in mind that I never professed to be the best player out there. I tend to take shots when it's rather risky to do so in favor of thinning the enemy ranks. As far as I'm concerned, if I can survive long enough to pop off the shot and get back into cover, then the shot is worth taking. Not the best strategy in the world, I know, but it works for me.

[bbslayer_07]

swk3000 wrote...

bbslayer_07 wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

bbslayer_07 wrote...

if your using adreniline or cloak you really don't have to worry about exposing yourself

My post above, about nearly getting killed after a single shot? That's using Adrenaline Rush. The thing about Adrenaline Rush is that it doesn't stop time; it simply slows it down. Bullets are, by their very nature, very fast, so if an enemy is about to fire one just as you activate Adrenaline Rush, it will hit you while the ability is active. Combine this with the fact that most enemies seem to use Assault Rifles or SMG's, and you can get hurt really fast with just a few shots.

Seriously? I'm playing on insanity right now as a vanguard with the viper and evi, and my shields don't even go down that fast. The only time the situation you mentioned happens to me is when my team mates are dead and I got 4 or more guys aiming for me. I think it might be cause the vanguard has barriers actually instead of shields, though I'm not sure the difference is that significant.

But I think your forgetting that while using AR both the player and ai's rate of fire is significantly decreased, the player however gets a 100% damage boost during Hard AR (plus 50% more damage protection) and 140% with Height AR, so you can kill enemies faster with less shots while under AR, so unless your completely pinned down I don't think you should be having that much trouble.

Keep in mind that I never professed to be the best player out there. I tend to take shots when it's rather risky to do so in favor of thinning the enemy ranks. As far as I'm concerned, if I can survive long enough to pop off the shot and get back into cover, then the shot is worth taking. Not the best strategy in the world, I know, but it works for me.

I hear you, I've died alot of times for the same reason, sometimes its better to be patient, it took me a while to learn that while I was playing my soldier cause I kept forgetting that I wasn't invisible like my infiltrator was.

[Besetment]

I think the Viper is a weird weapon for an Infiltrator because of the scope time dilation.

You get situations where you fire off 2 shots on a slo mo target and then they suddenly speed up when the time dilation wears off which completely throws off my aim when leading targets. Viper lends itself to a player that spends alot of time being scoped and the way I play is pretty much the antithesis of that. I pick and aim at targets with Mantis/Widow and use the white reloading reticle to aim, scope quickly, shoot, unscope, reload and pick another target using the white reticle. You can get a cycle going after the first shot.

The first thing about this is that it reduces the amount of time you spend in time dilation and the amount of time you are exposed from cover.

The second thing is that being scoped for long periods (apart from being unsafe) also narrows your peripheral vision so baddies are moving around and flanking you and you don't see it.

The downside to Mantis/Widow is that you need to reacquire aim after every shot. With the Viper you don't need to do this but you do have to compensate for recoil.

I've used the Incisor and the 3 shot burst is interesting because if you move around whilst scoped you can hit multiple targets with 1 burst. I prefer to go for headshots though and the Incisor has a burst fire which kicks upwards so if you aim for the chest, the second shot will hit the neck and the third shot will hit the head. If you aim for the head the other two shots will usually miss though if you find a nice convoy of blue suns and the elevation is right you can do funny things like headshot 3 dudes that are lined up like ducks. But that sort of thing is more about serendipidy than anything else. The planets (i.e. blue suns) need to be in allignment.

As for shields. It depends on whether you play Insanity or Insanity+ as on Insanity there is level scaling. On Insanity+ everything starts fully upgraded so even mundane baddies tear through shields and health until you start clawing back upgrades. See here:

The first 10 seconds shows what 1x Loki mech does when you run it down on Insanity+ with no upgrades. All shields and 2/3rds health lost in about 1 to 2 seconds.

Modifié par Besetment, 23 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[sepir]

Gave the Viper another go when I picked it up on my Insanity run through, which pointed out another flaw in my play style with it. I aim for headshots, even the quickest double tap I could do would sometimes miss the with the second shot due to the little dance the enemy sometimes does when you hit them. Much better against the Krogan though.



Where it really shone though was against the Thresher Maw. I wasn't going to bother even trying to fight it (I don't care for the difficulty, I bought the game for the story but have a thing about achievements) but when my squad hadn't died in the first minute I started pumping rounds into it. It died with 20 seconds to spare.



I am up to the Collector ship now, and am looking forward to picking up the Widow to give it ago.



PS. Grunt and Mordin are beasts when they fight on Tuchanka.

[MisterMerf]

I'm playing my first Insanity run as a soldier right now and I have to
say I LOVE my Viper.  I swapped to it as soon as I got it and I would
never look back.

Where it really shone though was against the Thresher Maw.

Amen to that. I just did Grunt's loyalty mission and brought the Cain with me for
the Thresher Maw.  Unfortunately, the power cells on the mission
brought me up to exactly 99% ammo on the Cain.  So instead, I killed
the beastie with my Viper.  HAR, pop-pop-pop-pop, dodge acid spit,
dodge acid spit, HAR, pop-pop-pop-pop...you get the idea.  I didn't
even have to pick up any thermal clips.


My assault rifle is my workhorse weapon, but I use my Viper when
beginning an engagement at long range or to take out a high-priority
enemy that is joining combat from long range.  The Viper completely
blows away the Mantis for use with Adrenaline Rush.  You get 3-4
headshots over the duration of the HAR to the Mantis' one.  With the
Viper, I can take out one Vorcha with the first two shots and get a
third headshot on a secondary target before HAR expires.  The Mantis
would only take out the first target.

[Comrade Bork]

MisterMerf wrote...

I'm playing my first Insanity run as a soldier right now and I have to
say I LOVE my Viper.  I swapped to it as soon as I got it and I would
never look back.

Where it really shone though was against the Thresher Maw.

Amen to that. I just did Grunt's loyalty mission and brought the Cain with me for
the Thresher Maw.  Unfortunately, the power cells on the mission
brought me up to exactly 99% ammo on the Cain.  So instead, I killed
the beastie with my Viper.  HAR, pop-pop-pop-pop, dodge acid spit,
dodge acid spit, HAR, pop-pop-pop-pop...you get the idea.  I didn't
even have to pick up any thermal clips.


My assault rifle is my workhorse weapon, but I use my Viper when
beginning an engagement at long range or to take out a high-priority
enemy that is joining combat from long range.  The Viper completely
blows away the Mantis for use with Adrenaline Rush.  You get 3-4
headshots over the duration of the HAR to the Mantis' one.  With the
Viper, I can take out one Vorcha with the first two shots and get a
third headshot on a secondary target before HAR expires.  The Mantis
would only take out the first target.

I know what you mean, I love using AP Rounds and AR, and then letting loose with that gun on an unsuspecting Krogan/Mech/Harbinger/Scion/anything that turns into a pain in the butt.

Modifié par Comrade Bork, 24 février 2010 - 01:45 .

[Hexark]

As a soldier, I prefer the Viper.  With Adrenaline Rush I can get 3 headshots in quick succession before AR runs out.  I'm out of cover longer, but the 50% damage reduction makes that point null.  3 headshots with the Viper with +100% damage from AR will kill most normal enemies or leave them with a sliver of health my squadmates quickly deal with.  I'd use a Widow over the others, but I like the Revenant too much on my soldier.

When I played my Infiltrator, though, it seemed more suited to the one shot, one kill mentality so I used the Mantis until the Widow was available.  It was more valuable to me playing Infiltrator to pop out of cover and quickly headshot an enemy to remove him from the fight.  The Infiltrator seemed to play better as a more careful, slower, tactical class, and the Widow seemed to complement that more.

[Jayce]

As an infiltrator I use the Mantis as a soldier I use the Viper. To be honest the Viper isn't really a sniper rifle, it's a battle rifle with a scope. I'd much rather it was in the AR category as I'd love to carry it alongside a Mantis, instead of a Mantis and a Vindy.

[sepir]

Got the Widow last night and my accuracy went down. My hands were having a spaz attack. Extra damage and the extra shots make a hell of a lot of difference though, so I will probably stick with that.

[Nostradamoose]

swk3000 wrote...

I have to agree: on Insanity, the Viper is useless. You may be able to rapid-fire, but that rapid-fire puts you out of cover for far too long. Hell, I've had times with the Mantis where I pop out to fire off a single shot, and by the time I get back in, I'm down to half of my Health bar.

I actually adored the viper on insanity, it completely saved my skin on Haestrom. I would just 3 shot any geth coming my way with it. I actually have to say that I adore it.

It's really just the matter of how you use it. You can't expect to use it like a mantis. You have to take 3-4 potshots then go right back into cover. (that, or do like I did, fire as long as you need to, if shields fail, turn on geth shields)