13 réponses à ce sujet

[Kinowek]

What a broad topic!


Any warrior should have the full Powerful line.  Rogues have no access to this, and are thus irreparably weakened in comparison.

Powerful(+hp +stamina, reduced armor penalty),
Threaten(draws aggro obviously),
Bravery(The description reads well, not sure how well it actually functions though.), and of course,
Death Blow, the one of the greatest talents, considering how many battles you fight vs many opponents.

Dual Wield Warrior:
Momentum(from Dual Wield tree) is vital.  Basically permanent haste. 

The rest of the dual wield tree is situational, but I almost exclusively use:

vs 'boss' targets: Riposte(stuns, 3 strikes), Punisher(stuns, high damage), Cripple(debuffs, less used)

vs masses: Dual Weapon Sweep and Whirlwind. These two seem to have no animation 'wind up' time, they just instantly fire off. Very nice.

Flurry, most enemies are dead before  I have a chance to use it. It hits three times, no other effects.

2hander warrior:
I only have Sten so far, no PC, but 2handers seem significantly less effective than dual wielding.  Three Rune slots vs Six for a dual wielder, much slower swings, but you do get:

Indomitable - Immune to knockdown effects(?)
Critical Strike-very high damage(but still so slow, outperformed by Momentum Dual Wielding)
A chance to stun with every hit
Pommel Strike- a knock down attack
That arc swing - AoE damage, comparable to Dual Weapon Sweep


Shield Warrior damage is pathetic in comparison to the above two.

Rogues... I am going to play a rogue pc at some point and see if I can get halfway decent damage, but I assume the survivability tradeoff will cut into any damage gain.   Having to spend 4 talent points on Lockpicking also REALLY cuts into any rogue damage output.

Kinowek

*EDIT* forgot to add attributes:

Dual Wielding, obviously you need the base Str/Dex required for weapons, I'm at 34/36 right now, Level 13, not counting equipment.  Constitution has suffered a little, and more importantly, Willpower(for stamina) is not where I'd like it to be.  Thirty six dex is required for Dual wielding talents.  Pump strength and willpower after that, for extra damage, and extra stamina for abilities, although there are multiple means of getting stamina back during a fight.

2Handers, slightly easier, you can focus more on Strength, but be warned, Dexterity not only helps you hit, it also helps you avoid GETTING HIT.  A lot of people seem to ignore this, then wonder why their 50str 14dex warrior is getting demolished by low level genlocks.  High constitution is not quite as effective in this game, as healing potions and spells seem to only heal a fixed number, not a percentage of total health.  Avoiding hits or mitigating damage through armor is more important than high health.

*Slight Spoiler* Killed a major dragon at level 12 with my Dual Wielding warrior pc, Sten, Leliana, and Wynne.  Sten died twice, he just got hit constantly, 40str 19dex, decent armor.  Also he did not benefit from the various +stat quests and items in the game, as my warrior did, so 2hander warrior pcs may do a bit better.

Modifié par Kinowek, 07 novembre 2009 - 12:49 .

[Krynis]

well if you can get behind some one with a proper DW rogue they can out damage anything I've seen in the game Kin.

[Syvere]

Well, I have been browsing peoples character pages and it seems to me that in terms of DPS from highest to lowest:

DW Warrior -> DW Rogue -> 2H Warrior -> Shield Warrior

[Horace the Well Meaning Hybrid]

I'm not especially far in and I don't have a dw warrior to compare with, but my 2h-using warrior seems to do fairly good damage. I'm saving dw for rogue.

[Jide Aurelius]

Shield warriors are pretty pro when it comes to bosses that knock down, throw up a shield wall and just stand their laughing

Modifié par Jide Aurelius, 07 novembre 2009 - 02:05 .

[revcasey]

Shield warriors do not have the DPS, for sure. My party (dps mage PC, Alister shield warrior, Wynne for healing+dps, Leliana ranged dps) does just fine. Alister can stand toe to toe for what seems like forever with a whole group of mobs (even in the middle of Tempest) while my mages and Leliana burn them down.

Shield Wall ftw!

revcasy

Modifié par revcasey, 07 novembre 2009 - 02:30 .

[Iyose]

Kinowek wrote...

What a broad topic!


Any warrior should have the full Powerful line.  Rogues have no access to this, and are thus irreparably weakened in comparison.

Powerful(+hp +stamina, reduced armor penalty),
Threaten(draws aggro obviously),
Bravery(The description reads well, not sure how well it actually functions though.), and of course,
Death Blow, the one of the greatest talents, considering how many battles you fight vs many opponents.

Dual Wield Warrior:
Momentum(from Dual Wield tree) is vital.  Basically permanent haste. 

The rest of the dual wield tree is situational, but I almost exclusively use:

vs 'boss' targets: Riposte(stuns, 3 strikes), Punisher(stuns, high damage), Cripple(debuffs, less used)

vs masses: Dual Weapon Sweep and Whirlwind. These two seem to have no animation 'wind up' time, they just instantly fire off. Very nice.

Flurry, most enemies are dead before  I have a chance to use it. It hits three times, no other effects.

2hander warrior:
I only have Sten so far, no PC, but 2handers seem significantly less effective than dual wielding.  Three Rune slots vs Six for a dual wielder, much slower swings, but you do get:

Indomitable - Immune to knockdown effects(?)
Critical Strike-very high damage(but still so slow, outperformed by Momentum Dual Wielding)
A chance to stun with every hit
Pommel Strike- a knock down attack
That arc swing - AoE damage, comparable to Dual Weapon Sweep


Shield Warrior damage is pathetic in comparison to the above two.

Rogues... I am going to play a rogue pc at some point and see if I can get halfway decent damage, but I assume the survivability tradeoff will cut into any damage gain.   Having to spend 4 talent points on Lockpicking also REALLY cuts into any rogue damage output.

Kinowek

*EDIT* forgot to add attributes:

Dual Wielding, obviously you need the base Str/Dex required for weapons, I'm at 34/36 right now, Level 13, not counting equipment.  Constitution has suffered a little, and more importantly, Willpower(for stamina) is not where I'd like it to be.  Thirty six dex is required for Dual wielding talents.  Pump strength and willpower after that, for extra damage, and extra stamina for abilities, although there are multiple means of getting stamina back during a fight.

2Handers, slightly easier, you can focus more on Strength, but be warned, Dexterity not only helps you hit, it also helps you avoid GETTING HIT.  A lot of people seem to ignore this, then wonder why their 50str 14dex warrior is getting demolished by low level genlocks.  High constitution is not quite as effective in this game, as healing potions and spells seem to only heal a fixed number, not a percentage of total health.  Avoiding hits or mitigating damage through armor is more important than high health.

*Slight Spoiler* Killed a major dragon at level 12 with my Dual Wielding warrior pc, Sten, Leliana, and Wynne.  Sten died twice, he just got hit constantly, 40str 19dex, decent armor.  Also he did not benefit from the various +stat quests and items in the game, as my warrior did, so 2hander warrior pcs may do a bit better.

Thanks for your insight! I was wondering if  your PC is the main tank of your party or is Sten?

Modifié par Iyose, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:09 .

[Rynas]

vilnii wrote...

Krynis wrote...

well if you can get behind some one with a proper DW rogue they can out damage anything I've seen in the game Kin.

What stats will a 'proper' dualweilding rogue have?

Most likely high STR and enough DEX to use an end-game dagger in the off-hand.

Base rogues should be able to outdamage base warriors after a certain point, assuming they're played well (i.e., backstabbing, with minimal time lost to positioning).

[metatrans]

vilnii wrote...

What stats will a 'proper' dualweilding rogue have?

there are several different approaches you can take. the one I favor is dual daggers with Lethality. 

dual daggers produces the highest possible attack speed (its faster than full size + dagger). this fast attack speed is very important for reasons I will explain shortly. 

for stat points distribution you will only need 20 str (so you can wear any light armor). you should aim for a dex score in the mid 30's, maybe as high as 40 at some point. this is especially true if you have applied the Dex hotfix patch to correct dagger damage calculations. (patch can be found here: http://dragonage.gul...rity_hotfix_101). this level of Dex is necessary for having adequate attack and defense scores. keep in mind though that you gain up to +20 attack from flanking and you can benefit from party buffs as well so more Dex than that becomes unnecessary. 

The rest of your stats should go into Cunning. Pump your Cunning as much as possible, it is your primary damage stat. by endgame it should be well over 50, possibly in the 60s. 

the reason you pump Cunning so much is due to 3 talents you will take. 

the first core talent is Lethality. this allows you to substitute your Cunning for your Strength score when it comes to damage calculations. 

the second core talent is Exploit Weakness from the Assassin specialization. this talent adds a flat bonus to backstab damage based on your cunning score. this Talent is the reason you go dual daggers. the bonus is a fixed score unrelated to weapon speed so using faster weapons generates more damage from this talent. with high cunning this can add ALOT of damage over time. this is the difference between 50 point backstab and 65 point backstabs. 

the third core talent is Coup De Grace. this allows you to backstab even when you cannot flank. any stun or paralyze will activate Coup De Grace. this works with Paralyze Runes for your weapons. this is the other reason for using Dual Daggers. Paralyze Runes have a fixed proc rate per attack. they proc more often with faster weapons and therefore are at peak effectiveness with fastest possible weapons, which is Dual Daggers. 

to round out the build you should pick up Momentum from the Dual Weapon fighting line. its extraordinarily good for boosting DPS and you don't use your stamina for much else so its easily affordable for this build. 

you should also eventually get Evasion (for survivability) and Master Stealth. 

you might also consider picking up Bard as a second specialization very late in the game. Bard talents are also fueled by Cunning and you will have a very high cunning score. a Song of Valor or Song of Courage from a high Cunning rogue can be very powerful. you won't be able to consider this option before level 14 though (need second specialization), and more realistically not before level 18 or so (won't have enough talent points before then). 

[Vaylor66]

My dw rogue does very good damage. One nice point of dw is you really only need 6 points in the skills. You're better off not putting points into all the actives because toggels like momentum and dueling take all your stamina anyways. I pretty much ignore the lock skills since I'm cun based, and chests just contain more crap anyways. With 2 points in it I can open most of the locked things.



On my next playthrough I think I'm going to try Alistair as a dw fighter. Since you only do need 6 in the dw line, I figure the few wasted in sword/shield won't be the end of the world. Also the added dex should make up for the lack of a shield.