70 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

I destroyed the base without a second thought. There is no one I'd trust with a base designed to liquify humans and turn them into reapers. Especially Cerberus. Also the very fact that TIM's ultimate plan was to get that base was exactly the reason I didn't intend to give it to him.



Even if the only thing that base did was make stuffed Teddy Bears I wouldn't let him have it.

[crapmonster13]

The choice to keep it is definitely tempting although I never chose to personally. The rational side of me and easily the stronger, could rationalize that keeping the base is in the best interests given all we could learn.



But this is completely disregarding the very real possibility that TIM/Cerberus and hell, even the Council would misuse it. Also, the dangerousness of simply being in a reaper makes me question whether or not we could even fully study it without sacrificing a good number of lives in the process.



In a real life context and morality aside, I honestly dont think it matters. Its like the idea of uninventing the atomic bomb. The technology exists so the best we can hope for, is for it to be used/regulated in an ethical manner. Id say simply blowing it up and "ignoring" it, is as bad as seemingly selfishly keeping it.

[Schneidend]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I destroyed the base without a second thought. There is no one I'd trust with a base designed to liquify humans and turn them into reapers. Especially Cerberus. Also the very fact that TIM's ultimate plan was to get that base was exactly the reason I didn't intend to give it to him.

Even if the only thing that base did was make stuffed Teddy Bears I wouldn't let him have it.

Given the bizarre weapons you've had Mordin research, Jack, I can only assume that base had a giant goatee and bandana on before it exploded.

[Nightwriter]

The Lord of Space wrote...

GodWood wrote...
We are at war with an undefeated species of sentient machines that have wiped out all organic life multiple times over, self righteous morals aren't going to stop them.

Exactly.

Even after the reapers are defeated if Cerberus tries to use the technology to conquer other races, do most of you people honestly believe they couldn't be easily stopped? The entire force of Reapers was just destroyed or nullified in some way, you think some two bit group of humans with a small understanding of Reaper technology could possibly pose a threat anywhere near the scale the Reapers did?

Obviously the current threat vastly outweighs any potential (and might I add not guaranteed) threat by Cerberus using stolen Reaper tech. Going without that base is like running into a firefight blindfolded.

Ah, but you have no way of knowing what they’ll “let” you do in the third game. Don’t assume that you will be given the power to stop Cerberus before great damage is done, or that the story will necessarily play out that way.  
 
I thought for sure I’d be given greater options when it came to protesting an alliance with Cerberus. I’m sure the sole survivors thought they’d be able to bring up Akuze. But they didn’t. All I got was like one glancing conversation with Miranda about it.
 
You may comfort yourself by saying, “Well, I’ll be able to step in and stop them if it turns out to have been a bad decision”, but how can you be sure it will work like that?

Modifié par Nightwriter, 23 février 2010 - 06:50 .

[Terraneaux]

Nightwriter wrote...
You may comfort yourself by saying, “Well, I’ll be able to step in and stop them if it turns out to have been a bad decision”, but how can you be sure it will work like that?

In that case there's not point in worrying about any decisions at all.

[Nightwriter]

Terraneaux wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
You may comfort yourself by saying, “Well, I’ll be able to step in and stop them if it turns out to have been a bad decision”, but how can you be sure it will work like that?

In that case there's not point in worrying about any decisions at all.

There is so long as there is still an opportunity to go back and change them.
 

[Taxonomical]

I did not give the base the The Illusive Man, and I'll tell you why.



With the Reapers, we know where they are...we know what they want to do, and we know where they are headed. They exist in dark space outside the galaxy, they are sentient machines that desire the extinction of organic life and they are coming into the galaxy to eradicate us. We know this.



However, I know nothing about The Illusive Man.



I don't know where he is from, I don't know what he wants, and I don't know why he wants it.Plus he knows no limits and has no boundaries. Leaders with no limits and no boundaries feel that their actions, no matter how cruel or unjust, are justified. A typical Hitler style leader. (Did I just bring Godwin's Law into effect??)



Like Hitler, I'd see him as a man who would not even bat an eyelash while exterminating other races. He'd round up Asari or Turians and make Reapers out of them. He'd show no emotion as he liquefied their corpses. No...you can't trust a leader like that.

[Godeshus]

Definitely kept it. 

Cerberus, while being quite questionable in its ethics, are the only force dealing with the immediate threat: The Reapers. The council is doing nothing, in fact the council is even against your resurrection. They refuse to admit that the reapers are coming. The thing is, with an enemy like that, there are no second chances. Every edge you can get increases the chances of all life in the galaxy surviving.

While Cerberus may, in the future, once the reapers are destroyed, use that power against the other races, that is a problem to be dealt with at another time. For now, the information and tactical position that that station has is invaluable against the coming harvest. If all else fails, all sectors, colonies, even the citadel can be abandoned to retreat to the galactic core, where they have a better chance overall of amalgamting their forces to drive back the reapers; even to the point of attempting to destroy the omega 4 relay behind them. I see it as a last bastion of hope in a worse case scenario. 

-Godeshus

[knightnblu]

My first instinct was to capture the base for the intel value, but the Reapers want us to use their technology and progress along their predetermined technological route. That being said, I blew the base and denied Cerberus the opportunity to dissect it. Will the break in the technological chain give me an edge in ME3? Don’t know, but I will have the Rachni and the Geth on my side and hopefully the Council will pull the collective stick out of their backsides and join the fight, but I am not holding out any hope for them until the Reapers come knocking on their door.

[TheBlackBaron]

This was probably the single hardest decision I've had to make thus far in the series. And honestly, thinking only with my brain it basically came down to a coin flip. Using enemy technology and knowledge is a time-honored tactic in warfare and has gotten some decidedly unpleasant men out of bad situations (Unit 731 comes to mind). On the flip side, of course, is how utterly horrible the price was to get this info and tech, and we already have proof of what can happen when it's misused.

I blew it up mainly because I had Garrus and Tali with me. Tali commented "That's not a good idea!" and my reaction was basically to go, "...yes dear." That, and once you're back on the Normandy the rest of the crew acts as though you just cloned Hitler's brain and put in a giant robot if you do keep it.

I'll probably end up returning to the Renegade side by the time I'm doing my final runthroughs in preperation for ME3, anyway.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 23 février 2010 - 07:14 .

[Jimbe2693]

First playthrough I kept it, and regretted it soon after

[cutthecameras]

We haven't needed Reaper technology so far and if that base contains even an inkling of how to indoctrinate we definitely don't need TIM with those powers. Also "I won't let fear compromise who I am" perfectly sums up how I feel about it.

[screwoffreg]

I like Martin Sheen and the Illusive Man character, so I kept it. He doesn't screw about, so why not keep it? I am sure it won't mean your ME 3 game will be doomed into Renegade status...just different.

[Lucaman]

I goddamn love TIM, despite his pro-human angle.

I kept the base due to my own 'ends justify the means' sorta thing, but made sure to yell at TIM to use it purely for The Reapers.

[Cutlass Jack]

Schneidend wrote...

Given the bizarre weapons you've had Mordin research, Jack, I can only assume that base had a giant goatee and bandana on before it exploded.

Do you have any idea how long it took Garrus to calibrate the Panache Cannons?

[The Lord of Space]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ah, but you have no way of knowing what they’ll “let” you do in the third game. Don’t assume that you will be given the power to stop Cerberus before great damage is done, or that the story will necessarily play out that way.  
 
I thought for sure I’d be given greater options when it came to protesting an alliance with Cerberus. I’m sure the sole survivors thought they’d be able to bring up Akuze. But they didn’t. All I got was like one glancing conversation with Miranda about it.
 
You may comfort yourself by saying, “Well, I’ll be able to step in and stop them if it turns out to have been a bad decision”, but how can you be sure it will work like that?

How can you be sure you can stop the Reapers without the, currently, only known intact source of Reaper technology (aside from the Bioware wouldn't screw us like that argument?)

Does the Reaper threat not outweigh any possible threat from Cerberus in the future? The Reaper threat is guaranteed, Cerberus threat is not.

[The Lord of Space]

cutthecameras wrote...

We haven't needed Reaper technology so far and if that base contains even an inkling of how to indoctrinate we definitely don't need TIM with those powers. Also "I won't let fear compromise who I am" perfectly sums up how I feel about it.

Aside from the IFF, mass relays and Prothean tech which was based on Reaper tech and no longer functions.

[Schneidend]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Do you have any idea how long it took Garrus to calibrate the Panache Cannons?

I was more referring to the Rakish Shotgun.
...You have revealed yourself, ser! Utilizing Panache technology in a ship's main gun violates numerous intergalactic weapons treaties!

[Nightwriter]

The Lord of Space wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Ah, but you have no way of knowing what they’ll “let” you do in the third game. Don’t assume that you will be given the power to stop Cerberus before great damage is done, or that the story will necessarily play out that way.  
 
I thought for sure I’d be given greater options when it came to protesting an alliance with Cerberus. I’m sure the sole survivors thought they’d be able to bring up Akuze. But they didn’t. All I got was like one glancing conversation with Miranda about it.
 
You may comfort yourself by saying, “Well, I’ll be able to step in and stop them if it turns out to have been a bad decision”, but how can you be sure it will work like that?

How can you be sure you can stop the Reapers without the, currently, only known intact source of Reaper technology (aside from the Bioware wouldn't screw us like that argument?)

Does the Reaper threat not outweigh any possible threat from Cerberus in the future? The Reaper threat is guaranteed, Cerberus threat is not.

My gut whispers secret messages to me that it is guaranteed. However my gut is not a logical creature, only an intuitive one, keying off subtle emotional signs. I don't pretend this is logically defensible.

And to answer your question, no, I can't be sure, as a reasonable person, that I can defeat the Reapers without the base. I'm taking a chance, same as you.

But I find that logical arguments for this only go so far. In the end you're really just asking yourself what Bioware will do with your decision. Thus the "Bioware wouldn't screw us over argument". It is unlike them to force you into a renegade option. They're all about choice.

[Bigdoser]

Nigawatts wrote...

I don't buy that whole "It was a rogue cell" every time something bad is brought up about Cerberus. That **** can't be kosher, since EDI freaking tells you that there are only a dozen cells active at anyone time, and TIM oversees all of them.

Seriously Cerberus can't be trusted, I don't care how they try to brainwash your Shepard with stories of how they are the only group willing to go the distance to save humanity, they are scum and deserve a boot to their face and a claymore round in the gut.

This!!!

[Mole267]

I destroyed the collector base 1st time, then kept it on my 2nd playthrough.



It will be interesting to see how those 2 options play out in ME3.

[12 Gage]

Initially I destroyed it, then I kept it because I thought: "Progress demands sacrifice." Any evils loosed upon the galaxy by Cerberus after the Reaper threat is dealt with can be vindicated later on but now that I think about it; keeping the base could make you look an awful lot like following in Saren's footsteps...

[Icinix]

Doesn't matter what you do with it. Terminators keep coming back, judgement day is inevitable. Blah Blah Blah.

:-p

[medlish]

I think it's stupid to destory the base.

If Cerberus really want to misuse it you can still destroy it. There's no way Cerberus can stop Shepard. Also, the information you can gain there is surely helpful. And last time I checked "I won't sacrifice the sould of our species" and "I won't let fear compromise who I am" are no where near valid arguments.

[slackbheep]

I destroyed it, I can't shake the feeling that There is more to The Illusive Man and his actions in ME2 than is being let on. Something vaguely sinister about that magic color changing star behind him as well.