148 réponses à ce sujet

[Andaius20]

"Alarmed that their creations were achieving sentience, the quarian government sent out an immediate order to shut down all geth. Their synthetic servants struck back, killing billions and driving the quarians from their homeworld in what few ships they had left. After forcing the quarians into exile, the geth isolated themselves from the rest of the galaxy..."



Quoted right from the history of the geth in your codex...

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

badrobot2 wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote…
The Quarians are a race of selfish evil bastards and deserved to be kicked from their homeworld and the citadel.

You can't just label an entire race "bastards" and be done with it. There are quarians like qwib-qwib who feel that they wronged the geth and should apologise for it. 

He is a minority, the majority of Quarians are selfish Bastards.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

He is a minority, the majority of Quarians are selfish Bastards.

The majority of humans are morons. Am I right generalising it?

[Varenus Luckmann]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...
He is a minority, the majority of Quarians are selfish Bastards.

The majority of humans are morons. Am I right generalising it?

What's your point? It's true.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

He is a minority, the majority of Quarians are selfish Bastards.

The majority of humans are morons. Am I right generalising it?

Maybe on this forum they are, I seem to be in the minority here.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Andaius20 wrote...
"Alarmed that their creations were achieving sentience, the quarian government sent out an immediate order to shut down all geth. Their synthetic servants struck back, killing billions and driving the quarians from their homeworld in what few ships they had left. After forcing the quarians into exile, the geth isolated themselves from the rest of the galaxy..."

Quoted right from the history of the geth in your codex...

I can see it in front of me. A mechanic starts going a little bit "wut?" over the sounds and behaviour  a car is exhibiting. Damn, I better shut this thing down, take it apart and see what is going on.. hold on a second.. *reaches for the "OFF" switch*

BZZAAAAPT! MUST. KILL. ALL. HUMANS! KILL ALL HUMANS! KILL ALL HUMANS!

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I can see it in front of me. A mechanic starts going a little bit "wut?" over the sounds and behaviour  a car is exhibiting. Damn, I better shut this thing down, take it apart and see what is going on.. hold on a second.. *reaches for the "OFF" switch*

BZZAAAAPT! MUST. KILL. ALL. HUMANS! KILL ALL HUMANS! KILL ALL HUMANS!

What a selfish Bastard he is.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Andaius20 wrote...

"Alarmed that their creations were achieving sentience, the quarian government sent out an immediate order to shut down all geth. Their synthetic servants struck back, killing billions and driving the quarians from their homeworld in what few ships they had left. After forcing the quarians into exile, the geth isolated themselves from the rest of the galaxy..."

Quoted right from the history of the geth in your codex...

I checked my codex I cant see the topic you are refering to, in fact my codex tells me different. Look at the Geth section in the primary codex and you will see it say

"When the Geth showed signs of self evolution, the Quarians attempted to exterminate them. The resulting war led to the Quarians being kicked off their homeworld"

But even if the Quarians just tried to shut them down they wouldnt allow it without a fight. As I said in my previous post if you had an off switch and somebody tried to push it wouldnt you defend yourself?

[Gaddmeister]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

badrobot2 wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote…
The Quarians are a race of selfish evil bastards and deserved to be kicked from their homeworld and the citadel.

You can't just label an entire race "bastards" and be done with it. There are quarians like qwib-qwib who feel that they wronged the geth and should apologise for it. 

He is a minority, the majority of Quarians are selfish Bastards.

Can't you even try to see this from a quarian point of view? If you created a robot to perform mindless tasks to help you in your home and you upgraded it a little too much, what would you do? I'm not saying the quarians did the right or the wrong thing here, but I can't see how you can say that they are selfish bastards. It's not that simple. What would you do if the robot you created eventually drove you from your house because you wanted to shut it down when it didn't obey you anymore?

[Varenus Luckmann]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...

"Alarmed that their creations were achieving sentience, the quarian government sent out an immediate order to shut down all geth. Their synthetic servants struck back, killing billions and driving the quarians from their homeworld in what few ships they had left. After forcing the quarians into exile, the geth isolated themselves from the rest of the galaxy..."

Quoted right from the history of the geth in your codex...

I checked my codex I cant see the topic you are refering to, in fact my codex tells me different. Look at the Geth section in the primary codex and you will see it say

"When the Geth showed signs of self evolution, the Quarians attempted to exterminate them. The resulting war led to the Quarians being kicked off their homeworld"

But even if the Quarians just tried to shut them down they wouldnt allow it without a fight. As I said in my previous post if you had an off switch and somebody tried to push it wouldnt you defend yourself?

Of course I would. What's your point?

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Gaddmeister wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

badrobot2 wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote…
The Quarians are a race of selfish evil bastards and deserved to be kicked from their homeworld and the citadel.

You can't just label an entire race "bastards" and be done with it. There are quarians like qwib-qwib who feel that they wronged the geth and should apologise for it. 

He is a minority, the majority of Quarians are selfish Bastards.

Can't you even try to see this from a quarian point of view? If you created a robot to perform mindless tasks to help you in your home and you upgraded it a little too much, what would you do? I'm not saying the quarians did the right or the wrong thing here, but I can't see how you can say that they are selfish bastards. It's not that simple. What would you do if the robot you created eventually drove you from your house because you wanted to shut it down when it didn't obey you anymore?

You ever watch that movie with Robin Williams in it, Bicentenial Man where he plays a robot that can think for himself and has human emotions? I would probably set it free to find its own destiny, so long as it diddnt pose a threat to anyone.

Also the Geth diddnt really stop obeying the Quarians till they attacked them, if the Quarians decided to play nice they could have lived in harmony with the Geth or even let them forge their own destiny, provided that they werent a threat.

[Andaius20]

see now your just making crap up. You have no Idea that would happen. They could have just as easily came to the Skynet did.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

It wasn't a single case. There was hundreds of thousands geth or more. It's safe to assume that every household had their own geth to help in manual labor. Geth were part of quarian society helping in everything. Quarian industry, production, house-life was based on geth help. Suddenly there was a risk that all geth become sentient and revolt. What would you do? Wait, do nothing? Create them a seperate country and continue with your life? What if they turn hostile, can you risk it? Can you trust a robot? Think hypothetically as a human who has 2m robot sentient robot in his home. I would be afraid of my life.

Of course it's good to be an optimist and trust a stranger but if you're wrong all quarians would be annihilated. Organic life doesn't have much chance when standing against a robot.

Quarians didn't want to start a war, they wanted to prevent it. You think that geth would just board the ships and fly away? Maybe. But are you sure of that? Can you risk the future of whole race?

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 23 février 2010 - 12:31 .

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Andaius20 wrote...

see now your just making crap up. You have no Idea that would happen. They could have just as easily came to the Skynet did.

Ah but neither do you, the Geth showed no signs of hostility so the Quarians at the very least could have observed them and try to learn their intentions before hitting the panic button and trying to kill them all

[Gaddmeister]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

You ever watch that movie with Robin Williams in it, Bicentenial Man where he plays a robot that can think for himself and has human emotions? I would probably set it free to find its own destiny, so long as it diddnt pose a threat to anyone.

Also the Geth diddnt really stop obeying the Quarians till they attacked them, if the Quarians decided to play nice they could have lived in harmony with the Geth or even let them forge their own destiny, provided that they werent a threat.

No, I never saw that movie. The quarians were afraid of the geth self awareness. They didn't think there could be a friendly solution, that's why they tried to undo what they did. Obviously they saw the geth as a malfunctioning robot (as it were asking questions) and not a new species. We can only speculate what would have happened if they would have tried the peaceful way. Maybe the geth had attacked, maybe they wouldn't have attacked. We can never know for sure, because that's not what happened.

I understand that the geth rebelled, why wouldn't they? And like Tali says (if my memory serves me right) the quarians made a mistake when they created the geth in the first place. They tried to correct that mistake the way they thought was the best. Maybe that was a mistake too. And they had to suffer for their mistakes as they were driven from their home world. That they want it back doesn't make them selfish bastards. Sure it's not as simple as the geth are the bad guys either, but surely you must understand why the quarians act like they do?

[Arklaed]

I'm bumping this for the beards.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...

see now your just making crap up. You have no Idea that would happen. They could have just as easily came to the Skynet did.

Ah but neither do you, the Geth showed no signs of hostility so the Quarians at the very least could have observed them and try to learn their intentions before hitting the panic button and trying to kill them all

But you risk your life, life of the entire race on this. Will they turn hostile, or will they become our friends? Will they wipe out our race, or will we live happily ever after. I am glad you dont have to make this decision because if you are wrong everybody would end up dead.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

It wasn't a single case. There was hundreds of thousands geth or more. It's safe to assume that every household had their own geth to help in manual labor. Geth were part of quarian society helping in everything. Quarian industry, production, house-life was based on geth help. Suddenly there was a risk that all geth become sentient and revolt. What would you do? Wait, do nothing? Create them a seperate country and continue with your life? What if they turn hostile, can you risk it? Can you trust a robot? Think hypothetically as a human who has 2m robot sentient robot in his home. I would be afraid of my life.

Of course it's good to be an optimist and trust a stranger but if you're wrong all quarians would be annihilated. Organic life doesn't have much chance when standing against a robot.

Quarians didn't want to start a war, they wanted to prevent it. You think that geth would just board the ships and fly away? Maybe. But are you sure of that? Can you risk the future of whole race?

Diddnt the Amercans do somthing similar in Vietnam? They were worried that if South Vietnam became communist then every other country would follow and become communist as well. So to prevent that they sent a lot of soldies into the meat grinder and eventually lost the war. But dispite their predictions that all the other countries would follow and become communist the exact opposite happend and comunisum colapsed from within.

Hasty decisions lead to big mistakes.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Gaddmeister wrote...

but surely you must understand why the quarians act like they do?

But thats what I have been trying to tell you, it is because they are a race of selfish bastards.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Didnt the Amercans do somthing similar in Vietnam? They were worried that if South Vietnam became communist then every other country would follow and become communist as well. So to prevent that they sent a lot of soldies into the meat grinder and eventually lost the war. But dispite their predictions that all the other countries would follow and become communist the exact opposite happend and comunisum colapsed from within.

Hasty decisions lead to big mistakes.

The issue with geth wasnt about their political system, they were potential threat to the life of entire quarian race.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 23 février 2010 - 12:57 .

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

Because Jacob was black.

Or because he was cerberus, like she stated.

Nope the Cerberus thing was just a cover, we all know that Tali hates black people, I mean you dont see Tali show the same hostility to Miranda.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Didnt the Amercans do somthing similar in Vietnam? They were worried that if South Vietnam became communist then every other country would follow and become communist as well. So to prevent that they sent a lot of soldies into the meat grinder and eventually lost the war. But dispite their predictions that all the other countries would follow and become communist the exact opposite happend and comunisum colapsed from within.

Hasty decisions lead to big mistakes.

The issue with geth wasnt about the their political system, they were potential threat to the life of entire quarian race.

How so? The Geth never showed any signs of aggression towards the Quarians until they attacked. Even now the Geth still dont threaten to Quarians, its the Quarians who want to restart the war with the Geth while the Geth just want to be live in peace.

[didymos1120]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...
 Even Tali said in ME1 that the Quarians ATTACKED the Geth first.

You need to pay closer attention to her dialogue, or stop cherry-picking your evidence, as you're ignoring scads of context in all your polemical zeal:



I'll post a couple relevant highlights, 'cause I'm nice that way.

On breaking AI laws:

This wasn't true AI research.  We may have been skirting the bounds of the law, but we never did anything that was actually illegal. The changes were so insignificant...so gradual...that we were able to able to control them.  Or so we thought. 

[She is referring to controlling the changes, BTW, not the geth.  They were still just machines during most of their early existence, and that includes the time after most of those incremental changes].

On the Geth rebellion:

The hope was that most of the geth were would still be little more than machines incapable of organized resistance. But they had progressed much further than anyone anticipated.

Also, let's take a little snippet from the Revelation novel:

Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their homeworld in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile.

[Please note: a canon source plainly states that what happened to the Quarians was genocide]

So, every last one of those people deserved to be killed by the Geth?  Even the infants?  How 'bout the toddlers?  Or the kids under 10?  And what about those just shy of adolescence?  Teenagers too? Is there some sort of cutoff age at which you'd say a Quarian automatically had it coming, period?  Does the fact that there's just no way every last Quarian of adult age was involved in making the Geth, much less involved in writing or deploying those code updates that accidentally made them sapient, matter?  Or that the deactivation order would have been given by the government and implemented by a miniscule fraction of the Quarian population, who likely knew little to nothing about the situation?  Or that issuing said order was almost certainly required by those pesky Citadel AI laws they'd accidentally broken? Did only the "bad" Quarians manage to flee, so it's OK to hate them? Now let's ask a more general question:  if your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather murdered someone, does that mean I get to blame you and declare your entire family to be a bunch of bastards?

If you buy into the mode of thinking that doesn't care about such questions, well, we have a word for that:

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 février 2010 - 01:08 .

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Why would Tali hate black people? Racism based on skin color is a human "design" rooted deep in human history and culture. You think that quarian care about human skin color? It doesn't have any sense.



You're beggining to accuse quarians of all possible evil. A lot of prejudice.

[Deiser]

The lack of beards in this topic makes me sad.