116 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyadina]

Default137 wrote...

The galaxy is a BIG place.

Seriously, I see other people pointed that out, but I don't think it was stressed enough, the galaxy is literally so large its impossible for you to imagine how large it is, it is so amazingly vast that even if we had the ability to travel a bajillion times the speed of light, and could zip around unhindered, we as a species would not explore 1/5th of the entire galaxy before our Sun died. And thats just our Galaxy, if we were talking about the Universe as a whole, it just gets silly, and then if you add the multiverse....

And then you even have to take in to account for the various races, they don't see Relays as we do on our minimap, and entire civilizations could potentially spring up in the same cluster as a relay, literally right next door, and they would never know it was there unless they got lucky and bumped in to it, heck, we are still not sure we've fully mapped out our cluster, there is a theory going around that there may be in fact up to two more planets, or planetoid sized things beyond Pluto, judging by the size of the planets we have currently, the asteroid belt, and all sorts of other projections, and I mean, we've lived on Earth how many years?

So yeah, back on topic, a galaxy is massive, very very massive, and even if you were deliberately looking for relays, you'd probably only find about 1/10th of them, as searching space is a fairly difficult task, the very fact the Protheans found us is a one in a million find, same with them finding the Hanar.

The galaxy is a big place.  I've never suggested otherwise, what I have suggested is that people go where the mass relays go.  Because the local cluster has a mass relay it seems extremely unlikely noone has ever been there.  Why does every civilization use the Citadel as the base, because all roads lead to Rome (more mass relays lead there than any other). 

The only argument that you can make about space being a big place is if there are litterally dozens of mass relays in every system all pointing somewhere else and you have exponential combinations to explore.  Since this isn't the case as far as we can tell.  What we do know is relays tend to point to clusters and clusters are not difficult to explore with conventional space FTL drives thus becomming the "known galaxy."  This known galaxy is likely the same thing that nearly every previous space civilization has known, why? because the relays go there. 

Just because this cycle has a government that forbids the opening of mass relays, doesn't mean any previous civilization did.  Mass relays are the cheapest, fastest method of travel if not necessarily the safest.  The fact that a mass relay leads to system like the local cluster with 9 planets, two of which could sustain life, and several moons, that it was explored by only 1 of the previous thousands of civilizations and never colonized suggests something else. 

And true, just because someone looks for relays doesn't mean they find them, but they do tend to connect together, and they are activatable from other relays.  That says to me once you find one, you can basically find them all by simply activating and jumping to them.  The civilizations of this cycle don't because of laws which are based upon as far as I can tell, the rachni wars.
 

[FlintlockJazz]

Cyadina wrote...

Default137 wrote...

The galaxy is a BIG place.

Seriously, I see other people pointed that out, but I don't think it was stressed enough, the galaxy is literally so large its impossible for you to imagine how large it is, it is so amazingly vast that even if we had the ability to travel a bajillion times the speed of light, and could zip around unhindered, we as a species would not explore 1/5th of the entire galaxy before our Sun died. And thats just our Galaxy, if we were talking about the Universe as a whole, it just gets silly, and then if you add the multiverse....

And then you even have to take in to account for the various races, they don't see Relays as we do on our minimap, and entire civilizations could potentially spring up in the same cluster as a relay, literally right next door, and they would never know it was there unless they got lucky and bumped in to it, heck, we are still not sure we've fully mapped out our cluster, there is a theory going around that there may be in fact up to two more planets, or planetoid sized things beyond Pluto, judging by the size of the planets we have currently, the asteroid belt, and all sorts of other projections, and I mean, we've lived on Earth how many years?

So yeah, back on topic, a galaxy is massive, very very massive, and even if you were deliberately looking for relays, you'd probably only find about 1/10th of them, as searching space is a fairly difficult task, the very fact the Protheans found us is a one in a million find, same with them finding the Hanar.

The galaxy is a big place.  I've never suggested otherwise, what I have suggested is that people go where the mass relays go.  Because the local cluster has a mass relay it seems extremely unlikely noone has ever been there.  Why does every civilization use the Citadel as the base, because all roads lead to Rome (more mass relays lead there than any other). 

The only argument that you can make about space being a big place is if there are litterally dozens of mass relays in every system all pointing somewhere else and you have exponential combinations to explore.  Since this isn't the case as far as we can tell.  What we do know is relays tend to point to clusters and clusters are not difficult to explore with conventional space FTL drives thus becomming the "known galaxy."  This known galaxy is likely the same thing that nearly every previous space civilization has known, why? because the relays go there. 

Just because this cycle has a government that forbids the opening of mass relays, doesn't mean any previous civilization did.  Mass relays are the cheapest, fastest method of travel if not necessarily the safest.  The fact that a mass relay leads to system like the local cluster with 9 planets, two of which could sustain life, and several moons, that it was explored by only 1 of the previous thousands of civilizations and never colonized suggests something else. 

And true, just because someone looks for relays doesn't mean they find them, but they do tend to connect together, and they are activatable from other relays.  That says to me once you find one, you can basically find them all by simply activating and jumping to them.  The civilizations of this cycle don't because of laws which are based upon as far as I can tell, the rachni wars.
 

As I already pointed out, they did not need to use the mass relay to get to earth, and so the mass relay may have been encased in ice and inoperable for millions of years for all we know.  The protheans could have easily come across earth using ftl drives, noted that the mass relay was frozen but decided to leave it as they only needed to put a small research colony there and so never bothered to fix it (possibly to avoid affecting humanity's development).  Since space is, as already mentioned, big, it is also not unreasonable to assume they were the only species to find earth in all the time the relay was encased. 

[tsd16]

its simple, bioware wrote it that way, therefore earth was never colonized, end of story. No need to wax goddamn nostalgic about it.

Modifié par tsd16, 23 février 2010 - 11:37 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Timeline as i see it.



Protheans Empire is at is height of power - They finally get around to explore relays leading to the fringes of the Galaxy.



Protheans flies though a unknown relay and thereby activates the Charon relay.



Protheans arrive in the local cluster and find a garden world with life, Sets up a research station on mars to study garden world.



Reapers arrive at the citadel, shuts down all relays and begins their cosmic holocaust of the protheans.



Charon relays remains deactivated until it's discovered by humans.



In a galaxy with billions of stars and presumably hundreds of millions relays it is not improbable that only protheans and humans have been to earth.

[Kyria Nyriese]

While I agree that it is hit or miss that another spacefaring race found Earth in the millions of years since the Reapers created the Charon Relay, remember, no matter what, Earth is a garden world. Since garden worlds are so rare, I could very well see multiple cycles where Earth may have been found, but colonization forbidden because of the possibility it could develop intellegent life... it didn't but hey that's a personal opinion. So Earth most likely was left alone like many of the other garden worlds that are offlimits.

Modifié par Kyria Nyriese, 23 février 2010 - 12:54 .

[farhansdisplayname]

Cyadina wrote...

It occured to me while playing through this amazing game yet again that...

The reapers are millions of years old, 30-40ish in game, maybe older in the end?

The mass relays were created by the reapers intending for organic life to develop in a direction they want, technology wise, but perhaps location wise as well.

The current round of organic species have visited around 1% of the star systems in this galaxy, nearly all of which are linked by the mass relays, or extremely close to relays. 

The extinction cycle is periodic, but in terms of millions of years quite frequent, they even say the signal should be given to summon the reapers back every 50k years.  So that's approximately 20 spacefaring civilizations per million years, of which their might be multiple ones like now, or very few or only one like the protheans. 

Garden worlds are typically rare, and earth has been habitable for millions of years.

How is it this planet was not discovered and colonized by another space faring race? I mean aside from the protheans anyway, who were nice enough to not colonize a perfect garden world and push us aside.

Was this ever discussed, or speculations given?

Possible thoughts..

Charon relay encased in ice, unknown for how long, perhaps prevented passage.  Protheans managed to use it however, so likely a "recent" incident after the protheans were gone?   Periodic freezing of that relay maybe?

Needle in a haystack, 50k years might not be enough for most space faring species to explore much of anything before being wiped out (protheans as an exception), maybe they just never got lucky and took the right relay?

Earth WAS colonized, but during the repear clean up they actually managed to remove all evidence...? riiiight.

Curious about others thoughts.

I don't know about colonization, but we DO see some alien influence on Earth. Remember the Krogan football player (the quarterback) from the Superbowl newsfeed? That was pretty interesting.

[farhansdisplayname]

tsd16 wrote...

its simple, bioware wrote it that way, therefore earth was never colonized, end of story. No need to wax goddamn nostalgic about it.

Hahahahaha!

[The_mango55]

Who says Earth wasn't colonized before?

[Trenrade]

The protheans didn't deactivate it to protect humanity, the reapers had the power to turn it back on because it is their own creation and technology. the reason why the reapers didn't harvest humanity is because there simply wasn't enough of us at that time to make a full fledged reaper.

Modifié par Trenrade, 23 février 2010 - 01:48 .

[didymos1120]

yfhfrg wrote...
Why are you throwing this idea out? The game says this is exactly what the reapers do. They destroy every shred of evidence that an advanced civilization existed before they disappear.

That's not even close to what the game says, which is that the Reapers take out the relay-using civilizations, and basically ignore everyone else...until they start using mass relays and build another galactic civilization.

Every advanced race in the ME universe thinks they're the first one to
evolve on their world.

This is called "making stuff up".   Every race?  We don't even know how many relay-using civilizations there have been, much less how many races comprised each one or the evolutionary history of those races. In fact, there's basically zero evidence in any of the source material for multiple intelligent races evolving in succession on the same worlds.  If you know of some, please, let us know.

[didymos1120]

The_mango55 wrote...

Who says Earth wasn't colonized before?

That's the wrong question.  The right one is: what evidence says it was?

[CardonT]

didymos1120 wrote...

The_mango55 wrote...

Who says Earth wasn't colonized before?

That's the wrong question.  The right one is: what evidence says it was?

Assassins Creed! Waitaminute...

[anmiro]

In ME1 they make it clear that the Protheans did visit Earth.

[FlintlockJazz]

didymos1120 wrote...

yfhfrg wrote...
Why are you throwing this idea out? The game says this is exactly what the reapers do. They destroy every shred of evidence that an advanced civilization existed before they disappear.

That's not even close to what the game says, which is that the Reapers take out the relay-using civilizations, and basically ignore everyone else...until they start using mass relays and build another galactic civilization.

Actually, the game does say that the reapers wipe out evidence that previous civilisations existed to avoid later races finding out what happened.  It tells us this repeatedly.

[The_mango55]

didymos1120 wrote...

The_mango55 wrote...

Who says Earth wasn't colonized before?

That's the wrong question.  The right one is: what evidence says it was?

None, but then again it can be hard to find evidence of a colony that existed millions of years ago and was completely vaporised, causing a massive planet-wide extinction event.

[didymos1120]

The_mango55 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

The_mango55 wrote...

Who says Earth wasn't colonized before?

That's the wrong question.  The right one is: what evidence says it was?

None, but then again it can be hard to find evidence of a colony that existed millions of years ago and was completely vaporised, causing a massive planet-wide extinction event.

True enough, but, taking the realistic tack, you can say all sorts of stuff could have happened and we can't know because of whatever random catastrophic event you care to invoke. For example, Atlantis could have existed and just be really hard to find. I'm not gonna care outside of fiction, though, without some actual archaeology.   In fact, I wasn't only taking the "let's pretend this is a real matter of galactic archaeology" tack.  I also meant what evidence from the source materials do we have.  I'd have no objection if the writers flat out said "X species colonized Planet Y and all evidence was destroyed due to Event Z, followed by the evolution of species W". Such a statement would make it a matter of "fact". But, so far, they haven't.

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 février 2010 - 02:10 .

[didymos1120]

anmiro wrote...

In ME1 they make it clear that the Protheans did visit Earth.

Yeah, and?  To visit isn't to colonize.  Even to set up a scientific observation post, something they also did, is a far cry from colonizing.

[BigKahuna25]

Fermi asked the same question.

[The_mango55]

didymos1120 wrote...

The_mango55 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

The_mango55 wrote...

Who says Earth wasn't colonized before?

That's the wrong question.  The right one is: what evidence says it was?

None, but then again it can be hard to find evidence of a colony that existed millions of years ago and was completely vaporised, causing a massive planet-wide extinction event.

True enough, but, taking the realistic tack, you can say all sorts of stuff could have happened and we can't know because of whatever random catastrophic event you care to invoke. For example, Atlantis could have existed and just be really hard to find. I'm not gonna care outside of fiction, though, without some actual archaeology.   In fact, I wasn't only taking the "let's pretend this is a real matter of galactic archaeology" tack.  I also meant what evidence from the source materials do we have.  I'd have no objection if the writers flat out said "X species colonized Planet Y and all evidence was destroyed due to Event Z, followed by the evolution of species W". Such a statement would make it a matter of "fact". But, so far, they haven't.

The writers would have to say that out of universe. The Codex only tells us things known to the current council races. If no evidence was left, then no one would know about it to tell us.

Modifié par The_mango55, 23 février 2010 - 02:17 .

[didymos1120]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

yfhfrg wrote...
Why are you throwing this idea out? The game says this is exactly what the reapers do. They destroy every shred of evidence that an advanced civilization existed before they disappear.

That's not even close to what the game says, which is that the Reapers take out the relay-using civilizations, and basically ignore everyone else...until they start using mass relays and build another galactic civilization.

Actually, the game does say that the reapers wipe out evidence that previous civilisations existed to avoid later races finding out what happened.  It tells us this repeatedly.

Which is why I didn't dispute that. Here's the post prior to the one I answered:

Cyadina wrote...
Earth WAS colonized, but during the
repear clean up they actually managed to remove all evidence...?
riiiight.

That's what  "The game says this is exactly what the reapers do" referred to.  The Reaper clean-up was only barely relevant to the argument, and basically just being cited as an excuse for there being nothing to support the actual idea under discussion. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[FlintlockJazz]

didymos1120 wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

yfhfrg wrote...
Why are you throwing this idea out? The game says this is exactly what the reapers do. They destroy every shred of evidence that an advanced civilization existed before they disappear.

That's not even close to what the game says, which is that the Reapers take out the relay-using civilizations, and basically ignore everyone else...until they start using mass relays and build another galactic civilization.

Actually, the game does say that the reapers wipe out evidence that previous civilisations existed to avoid later races finding out what happened.  It tells us this repeatedly.

Which is why I didn't dispute that. Here's the post prior to the one I answered:

Cyadina wrote...
Earth WAS colonized, but during the
repear clean up they actually managed to remove all evidence...?
riiiight.

That's what  "The game says this is exactly what the reapers do" referred to.  The Reaper clean-up was only barely relevant to the argument, and basically just being cited as an excuse for there being nothing to support the actual idea under discussion. 

Ah, sorry about that, it looked like you were arguing about something else, my mistake.

[xxLDZxx]

protehan s moved on earth and found strange harry pijakcs that throw ****e at them, that was disgusting they moved on mars for safety reasons end of the story

[timedrake32]

Godeshus wrote...

Some of this may be misinformation, but it's been a while since I played ME1.

Protheans were much more advanced technologically than what is present in mass effect present day.

I don't think that you can travel to a mass relay that is deactivated. It is possible that the protheans discovered a way.

They activated the charon  relay and studied the humans.

Reapers only kill off advanced civilizations that have activated their mass relays.

Perhaps the protheans could not figure out how to deactivate relays, so resorted to shutting it down using an unorthodox method: encasing it in ice. They could have done this to spare humans from the reapers. They went to long ends to try and protect the galaxy. closing off the citadel and what not. It is quite possible that, knowing they would be wiped out eventually, did their best to try and give future civilizations in the galaxy a fighting chance against the reapers.

-Godeshus

Thats the best idea i've read so far.... 
Still I'd like to add a little about really human lore The Protheans could hace come to earth after they sealed the mass relay about the the time of the "reaping"  Alaticis myth started to pop up advance people al over the world start to show up.....
I think the protheans had a hand in thisss