236 réponses à ce sujet

[onomastikon]

Please note: I am NOT asking why any game player would try to save and recruit Sten. I can think of things such as curiosity, minimax effectivity, or boredom.

I am asking: Why would a Grey Warden save Sten, even if it required no effort? 
I think Sten is a bad role-playing obstacle, one of the very few in this game, for me. Let me elaborate.
My first run-through, I was playing a dwarven warrior who if not lawful good was neutral good leaning pretty lawful. I figured: OK, I'll come back and try Sten out next play-through as a rogue.
Now, I am playing a Rogue who feels he got talked into this whole Grey Warden bit. It is hard. It is very hard to play this game and be even slightly evil, I think, very hard indeed. Because of the main story plot, I cannot see how any Grey Warden can be too much of a self-seeking scumbag, much less downright evil.
But be that as it may: Even a self-seeking scumbag would have trouble with Sten. I simply couldn't get myself to go through the effort of freeing him; the developers put very little in the way of ambiguity in the figure of Sten we can see through the cages. I have never recruited him, so I know very little about how he "really is" (whatever that is supposed to mean), but from what I can glean of him through the cages, he does mention regret, but only tangentially. He offers no information or explanation about his murder; why would a self-serving scumbag, even if you could play a self-serving scumbag, want to hire someone who could turn on you like that? I did make at least a few cursory queries at the Chantry, and even did the gameplayer bit a little (out of curiousity, I tried to free him), but just could not bring myself to intimidate or use force to get him out.

It seems that either we should have more of a chance to be evil (but how, given that we are sort of saviors of Ferelden) or that Sten needs to be much more ambiguous, at least.

I wonder how alone I am in this opinion.

[Fycan]

Before I even got the game, I knew I was going to recruit Sven. Just because how big he is, I wanted a big guy in my team and he's the biggest guy I can get in the game.

Anyways on my first playthrough when I got to him I was stunned.. ur right.. I didn't even wana Recruit him anymore after talking to him.. He was just so Repulsive.. the ONLY reason I could convince myself to recruit him (story wise) is because Alistair convinced me to get him, claiming that Sven is a Qunari and they are good fighters.



I cannot convince myself to recruit him ever again in any other playthroughs

[Spitz6860]

so you don't find the fact that he killed all those people and then just sit there waiting to get arrested and executed odd? when i first heard it i was sure there was a misunderstanding and what he told me is not the complete story.

[Shady314]

onomastikon wrote...

Please note: I am NOT asking why any game player would try to save and recruit Sten. I can think of things such as curiosity, minimax effectivity, or boredom.

I am asking: Why would a Grey Warden save Sten, even if it required no effort? 
I think Sten is a bad role-playing obstacle, one of the very few in this game, for me. Let me elaborate.
My first run-through, I was playing a dwarven warrior who if not lawful good was neutral good leaning pretty lawful. I figured: OK, I'll come back and try Sten out next play-through as a rogue.
Now, I am playing a Rogue who feels he got talked into this whole Grey Warden bit. It is hard. It is very hard to play this game and be even slightly evil, I think, very hard indeed. Because of the main story plot, I cannot see how any Grey Warden can be too much of a self-seeking scumbag, much less downright evil.
But be that as it may: Even a self-seeking scumbag would have trouble with Sten. I simply couldn't get myself to go through the effort of freeing him; the developers put very little in the way of ambiguity in the figure of Sten we can see through the cages. I have never recruited him, so I know very little about how he "really is" (whatever that is supposed to mean), but from what I can glean of him through the cages, he does mention regret, but only tangentially. He offers no information or explanation about his murder; why would a self-serving scumbag, even if you could play a self-serving scumbag, want to hire someone who could turn on you like that? I did make at least a few cursory queries at the Chantry, and even did the gameplayer bit a little (out of curiousity, I tried to free him), but just could not bring myself to intimidate or use force to get him out.

It seems that either we should have more of a chance to be evil (but how, given that we are sort of saviors of Ferelden) or that Sten needs to be much more ambiguous, at least.

I wonder how alone I am in this opinion.

He can FIGHT.
He is going to die.
That makes you a PRIME Grey Warden candidate.

Like Riordan says. "We aren't judges. Kinslayers, blood mages, traitors, rebels, carta thugs, common bandits; Anyone with the skill and mettle to take up the sword against the darkspawn is welcome among us."

Modifié par Shady314, 23 février 2010 - 10:37 .

[e-ver]

First of all, why is this in the Awakening sub-forum?

And secondly: why wouldn't you? You and Alistair are the only two Wardens left, you have no help, apart from an apostate mage (and, if you've already picked her up, a former Chantry sister/lay servant, as you don't know about Leliana's past at that point) and Sten offers to aid you against the blight if you tell him you're a Warden. As Loghain has branded the Warden's as traitors, you will have to assume that it won't be easy to find many people who are willing to aid you and when a seasoned warrior offers, why not take it?

As your character cen tell Alistair when he objects to let Morrinag tag along: the Wardens have always taken any help they got. Sten is "willing and able", so to speak. *shrug*


[edit]
Apparently a lot of people type faster than me.

Modifié par Allerleihrau, 23 février 2010 - 10:41 .

[Eudaemonium]

First - if you have Leliana on your team the Chantry Mother just gives you the key when you ask for it. There is no use for force or intimidation.



Second, regarding RP. It is made pretty clear by both Sten and the villagers that Sten did not resist arrest. He simpyl waited for the Templars - which is disquieteneing in itself, seeing as he was surrounded by dead people. But from my perspective, I tend to look at it like invoking teh right of conscription - youa re conscripting Sten to help you fight the Blight - either as a form fo atonement (which he seems moderately interested in doing), or simply to have another pair of hands. You are being pretty pressured into the whole 'saving the world' role, and are pretty short of help as it is. In my opinion, a self-serving character will recruit Sten simply to take the load off of him/herself: here's a strong guy who can do my work for me. A good character will, IMO, give him a chance at atonement. I also think it depends on the self-image of your character: for instance, 'do I consider myself strong enough to take this guy out if he gets out of line'.



Similarly, why would anyone in their right mind recruit Leliana - who basically appears like a crazy woman with visions covered in blood when you first meet her, and insists that God told her to come with you. She can obviously fight, and is somewhat loose in the head - which might inhibit your quest. Also Zevran, who tries to kill you, or Shale - who is a giant stone statue that could crush your head at a moment's notice. The only characters that any fully sane Warden would associate with are Alistair, Wynne and your Dog.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Why would you post this on Awakening forum?

[Spawny]

I found him alright. I have freed him each time because as his approval goes up I can't help warming to the character as more of his personality comes through and his story as he will tell you why he did it. Mind you his story can not excuse what he has done and even he knows this (I don't want to say a lot due to spoilers).

He is ok if your character is along the more evil lines but even he will disapprove if he thinks it's a really half baked idea or it does not warrant to directly stopping the blight.

I personally found him easy to play through after the first time of learning how he works. But I think it's just like how some people just can't warm to Morrigan ect. Now matter how hard you try to RP a character if they grind you the wrong way then you just don't tend to use them as much or wish darkspawn would kill them already!

[Fycan]

He's like Shale, who I don't recruit.
They are both murderers
and through their first dialogues they clearly stated they don't feel
ashamed nor guilty about anything they did. And that's why I cannot take them with me.
I consider these 2 even worst than Loghain, at least Loghain was doing it for the people of Ferelden, these 2 guys... pffffffff

[spottyblanket]

A lot of people don't get Sten. Because of the way he talks, and his facial expression. he does not sound sincre. Though everything he says he means 'literally'. If you ask him a question, he always responds literally. I found reading in the codex about qunari to be most useful. I would have liked another side quest in which sten got to meet that one 'surving child' from the onslaught. In fact, I kinda expected it. Sten simply waited to be captured and was willing to die because he understood what he did was wrong. His character does not dwell on the past, but simply does what he deems correct at the time. That is why he simply accepted his fate and doesn't deny what he did. Do I still feel his character needs delevoping? Yes, a lot. I think he should have been in awakenings (more?). But Sten does change a lot as a character, subtly. I like the relationship between him and the warden. But I'm a sten fan myself.



Have you noticed that Duncan always made steange recruiting choices. Say, for example, the theif, or the mage who will be condemend to death. You recruit these people because they have no other choice and their dedication will be unwavering. That is what makes SPOILERS................ Logain such a good choice.

[Behindyounow]

I dont get it. If you dont like murderers, then why not take them along anyway for an almost certain death in battle? Its more humane than leaving them to starve in a cage.



And while it isn't a certain death, it certainly seems like that at the time.

[Fycan]

Behindyounow wrote...

I dont get it. If you dont like murderers, then why not take them along anyway for an almost certain death in battle? Its more humane than leaving them to starve in a cage.

And while it isn't a certain death, it certainly seems like that at the time.

Because they will MURDER me? LoL

[Behindyounow]

Well theres that. But if the PC could be killed by a starved man in a cage its probably for the best.

[Herr Uhl]

Fycan wrote...

He's like Shale, who I don't recruit.
They are both murderers
and through their first dialogues they clearly stated they don't feel
ashamed nor guilty about anything they did. And that's why I cannot take them with me.
I consider these 2 even worst than Loghain, at least Loghain was doing it for the people of Ferelden, these 2 guys... pffffffff

You'd only have Wynne, dog and Alastair in that case. Well, good for you I guess. And Sten does feel guilt, why else would he resign himself to death by starvation?

[spottyblanket]

Alister also used to be a mage hunter. I don't think EVERYONE in the party is innocent. But I kinda like that. Flaw = good.

[e-ver]

Fycan wrote...

He's like Shale, who I don't recruit.
They are both murderers
and through their first dialogues they clearly stated they don't feel
ashamed nor guilty about anything they did. And that's why I cannot take them with me.
I consider these 2 even worst than Loghain, at least Loghain was doing it for the people of Ferelden, these 2 guys... pffffffff

Are you serious? (I mean that as an honest question, I can't tell if you're joking or not.)

Shale killed one person, her master who treated her like a slave, a thing and not like a sentinent being. There is a person inside Shale, and no, it's not because she ate him. One can of course argue that Shale was not sentinent when serving Wilhelm and thus it didn't matter how she was treated, but then you can't blame her for killing him, because she was simply a malfuntioning machine at the time. True, she doesn not regret it and this makes her less likely to ever become a Paladin, but simply putting the "murderer" label on her, is a bit to easy, don't you think?

Sten slaughtered a family and he himself will admit that it was a horrible thing to do. He will say it when still in the cage, where he will also tell you that he feels guilt and the fact that he waited for the Templars to arrest him is pretty significant as well, I thnk. Furthermore you can only talk about his reason for the crime after you are closer to him (meaning raised approval), if he truly didn't care about what he did, he'd simply tell you. He is not trying to hide it, he is not trying to deny it, he is not making excuses. When you get to know him better, you will learn what caused him to do it and while your character may not understand it, you are not Qunari and probably just don't have the necessary insight in his mindset. His blade is his soul, it defines his being and without it, there is no reason for him to exist. When he found out that he lost it, he panicked and did something very wrong.
I never thought I lost my soul and my reason to exist, but I don't know what I would do in such a situation.

Loghain (who I think is a very well written character) commited heinous crimes, he abandoned his king and an army (one can argue that that was necessary, that the battle could not have been won, but that still doesn't change the fact), he sold people into slavery, had others tortured and murdered and many other things. He did this, because he believed that he was doing the right thing, that he was doing what he had to do. (I will refrain from drawing real life comparisons at this point, it would be out of place and would automatically turn this discussion away from Sten and DA:O in general.) Neither is this an excuse, nor does it make him a better person than Shale and Sten. Not at all. It makes him a believable character with very deep flaws.

[Nymphadora1]

onomastikon wrote...

Please note: I am NOT asking why any game player would try to save and recruit Sten. I can think of things such as curiosity, minimax effectivity, or boredom.

I am asking: Why would a Grey Warden save Sten, even if it required no effort? 
I think Sten is a bad role-playing obstacle, one of the very few in this game, for me. Let me elaborate.
My first run-through, I was playing a dwarven warrior who if not lawful good was neutral good leaning pretty lawful. I figured: OK, I'll come back and try Sten out next play-through as a rogue.
Now, I am playing a Rogue who feels he got talked into this whole Grey Warden bit. It is hard. It is very hard to play this game and be even slightly evil, I think, very hard indeed. Because of the main story plot, I cannot see how any Grey Warden can be too much of a self-seeking scumbag, much less downright evil.
But be that as it may: Even a self-seeking scumbag would have trouble with Sten. I simply couldn't get myself to go through the effort of freeing him; the developers put very little in the way of ambiguity in the figure of Sten we can see through the cages. I have never recruited him, so I know very little about how he "really is" (whatever that is supposed to mean), but from what I can glean of him through the cages, he does mention regret, but only tangentially. He offers no information or explanation about his murder; why would a self-serving scumbag, even if you could play a self-serving scumbag, want to hire someone who could turn on you like that? I did make at least a few cursory queries at the Chantry, and even did the gameplayer bit a little (out of curiousity, I tried to free him), but just could not bring myself to intimidate or use force to get him out.

It seems that either we should have more of a chance to be evil (but how, given that we are sort of saviors of Ferelden) or that Sten needs to be much more ambiguous, at least.

I wonder how alone I am in this opinion.

 I ask myself that very same question about Rohgain ..umm Loghain. You have a 100 reasons to want him dead and practically zip for wanting to keep him alive. But i myself never really use him or morrigan once leliana comes into play

[Maria Caliban]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Similarly, why would anyone in their right mind recruit Leliana - who basically appears like a crazy woman with visions covered in blood when you first meet her, and insists that God told her to come with you. She can obviously fight, and is somewhat loose in the head - which might inhibit your quest.

A human noble would likely believe in the Maker. If a woman of god shows she's an excellent fighter and has been sent to help me destroy the darkspawn, why would I assume she's crazy?

[Herr Uhl]

spottyblanket wrote...

Alister also used to be a mage hunter. I don't think EVERYONE in the party is innocent. But I kinda like that. Flaw = good.

He never hunted mages. And I mean murderer as not in field of battle, see Wynne.

[XOGHunter246]

because the warden needs allies for the blight

[Herr Uhl]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

Similarly, why would anyone in their right mind recruit Leliana - who basically appears like a crazy woman with visions covered in blood when you first meet her, and insists that God told her to come with you. She can obviously fight, and is somewhat loose in the head - which might inhibit your quest.

A human noble would likely believe in the Maker. If a woman of god shows she's an excellent fighter and has been sent to help me destroy the darkspawn, why would I assume she's crazy?

Because she talks with deities that has "left mankind" in her dreams. Most of the chantry also would believe her as crazy.

[Wishpig]

Ha, ya, I've always felt the same way. You stumble across a giant who murdered an entire family of innocent farmers... and without much explanation or real reasoning you go and recruit him.



It's like going to death row and asking, "Hey, that serial killer looks strong, release him please."

[Wournos]

Fycan wrote...

Before I even got the game, I knew I was going to recruit Sven. Just because how big he is, I wanted a big guy in my team and he's the biggest guy I can get in the game.
Anyways on my first playthrough when I got to him I was stunned.. ur right.. I didn't even wana Recruit him anymore after talking to him.. He was just so Repulsive.. the ONLY reason I could convince myself to recruit him (story wise) is because Alistair convinced me to get him, claiming that Sven is a Qunari and they are good fighters.

I cannot convince myself to recruit him ever again in any other playthroughs

His name is acctually Sten. ...though Sven is an equally nerdy Swedish name.


I cannot answer the question of the original poster. I haven't tried playing a bad guy/girl yet. It would be very difficult for me because it's not in my nature to be exessively evil. Arrogant and bullying, yes. Evil... not so much.
Another reason to skip Sten is that he's terrible at surviving any battle. So far he's the first one to go down no matter how hard I try.

[Herr Uhl]

Wournos wrote...
His name is acctually Sten. ...though Sven is an equally nerdy Swedish name.

Sven is many times more nerdy than Sten.

[Eudaemonium]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

Similarly, why would anyone in their right mind recruit Leliana - who basically appears like a crazy woman with visions covered in blood when you first meet her, and insists that God told her to come with you. She can obviously fight, and is somewhat loose in the head - which might inhibit your quest.

A human noble would likely believe in the Maker. If a woman of god shows she's an excellent fighter and has been sent to help me destroy the darkspawn, why would I assume she's crazy?

Well, you can play an atiest human noble as well - the options are there. But I do get your point - a pious HN probably would recruit Leliana, but even s/he may be slightly wary of her visionary faith. But to other characters like Dalish Elves, Dwarf Nobles or Commoners (who do not believe in the maker), or Mages (who may hate the Chantry) she would come over as ranging from a bit unstable (and therefore not the most sensible person to have at your back in a fight), to a knife-happy lunatic (who you definitely don't want around). You know nothing about her other than the fact she potentially  is good with a knife and believes the Maker sent her to you. Its an RP thing, but you are right regarding that *some* characters would be happy to have her join, just as some would be happy to have Sten join, or Zevran or Shale, which is the point I was making.