236 réponses à ce sujet

[Feraele]

onomastikon wrote...

Please note: I am NOT asking why any game player would try to save and recruit Sten. I can think of things such as curiosity, minimax effectivity, or boredom.

I am asking: Why would a Grey Warden save Sten, even if it required no effort? 
I think Sten is a bad role-playing obstacle, one of the very few in this game, for me. Let me elaborate.
My first run-through, I was playing a dwarven warrior who if not lawful good was neutral good leaning pretty lawful. I figured: OK, I'll come back and try Sten out next play-through as a rogue.
Now, I am playing a Rogue who feels he got talked into this whole Grey Warden bit. It is hard. It is very hard to play this game and be even slightly evil, I think, very hard indeed. Because of the main story plot, I cannot see how any Grey Warden can be too much of a self-seeking scumbag, much less downright evil.
But be that as it may: Even a self-seeking scumbag would have trouble with Sten. I simply couldn't get myself to go through the effort of freeing him; the developers put very little in the way of ambiguity in the figure of Sten we can see through the cages. I have never recruited him, so I know very little about how he "really is" (whatever that is supposed to mean), but from what I can glean of him through the cages, he does mention regret, but only tangentially. He offers no information or explanation about his murder; why would a self-serving scumbag, even if you could play a self-serving scumbag, want to hire someone who could turn on you like that? I did make at least a few cursory queries at the Chantry, and even did the gameplayer bit a little (out of curiousity, I tried to free him), but just could not bring myself to intimidate or use force to get him out.

It seems that either we should have more of a chance to be evil (but how, given that we are sort of saviors of Ferelden) or that Sten needs to be much more ambiguous, at least.

I wonder how alone I am in this opinion.

Once you get him set up right..with stats and tactics..he's a great team mate..also his character is (to me anyway) alot more interesting..than some of the other choices.

You have to experience his story to understand ..why he flew into the rage he did.   He lost his sword on the battlefield..that means he can never go home unless he retrieves it.   Qunari are very honourable people.

His sword was made for his hand,  he was supposed to die with it.  If he is seen without that sword by his people, they will kill him, as he will be considered a deserter...a traitor.

Also note another thing, Sten will never lie to you.

[LadyDamodred]

I must say, Sten is like my BFF in almost all my games. Right up there with Zevran.



And then I took him to the mage tower and asked him about Qunari mages. O.o Yeah, my mage suddenly not quite so comfortable around him.

[spottyblanket]

My character is a human female warrior and wanted to go on the mgaical boat ride with him at the end.

[Cutlass Jack]

Feraele wrote...

Once you get him set up right..with stats and tactics..he's a great team mate..also his character is (to me anyway) alot more interesting..than some of the other choices.

You have to experience his story to understand ..why he flew into the rage he did.   He lost his sword on the battlefield..that means he can never go home unless he retrieves it.   Qunari are very honourable people.

His sword was made for his hand,  he was supposed to die with it.  If he is seen without that sword by his people, they will kill him, as he will be considered a deserter...a traitor.

Also note another thing, Sten will never lie to you.

I don't disagree with at all. But at the time you have to make the choice to release him, you don't know any of that. Once you get his story, its different.

[Feraele]

One other thing I'd like to say about Sten, he likes to push your buttons to see what you are made of...someone in this thread stated that Sten attempted to take over leadership of his party.



I've never seen him do that..hehe ..It could just be he thought you weren't a good leader ..OR he was pushing to see how you would react.



I find if I "stand up" to Sten when he "seems" to be criticizing me, I always get approval from him.



He wants to see that you have backbone, guts...he doesn't want a weakling for a leader.

[soignee]

I somehow ended up BFF on my Brosca with Sten. No idea how. Might be because she stabs first then asks questions later.

[Dansayshi]

Feraele wrote...

One other thing I'd like to say about Sten, he likes to push your buttons to see what you are made of...someone in this thread stated that Sten attempted to take over leadership of his party.

I've never seen him do that..hehe ..It could just be he thought you weren't a good leader ..OR he was pushing to see how you would react.

I find if I "stand up" to Sten when he "seems" to be criticizing me, I always get approval from him.

He wants to see that you have backbone, guts...he doesn't want a weakling for a leader.

I think he tries to take over when he thinks your "not doing your job" lol. I believe its triggered by a lower approval, which will cause him to act, altho its only a test of your abilities I think. Iv had it once lol.

[Feraele]

Sten also challenges Alistair..wants to see what he's made of..."Draw your sword, I said draw your sword"...pay attention next time he does that to Alistair.

[Eudaemonium]

Feraele wrote...

Sten also challenges Alistair..wants to see what he's made of..."Draw your sword, I said draw your sword"...pay attention next time he does that to Alistair.

'So you do have a backbone. Pity you don't use it.'

[Darkannex]

He will challenge you for leadership if you bring him to the town where the urn resides (forgot the name). He considers this an unneccessary diversion from the Darkspawn and is tired of all your side-quest feelgoodiness.

You can fight him, intimidate or persuade him down from it.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Why would my Warden recruit Sten? Pretty simple answer at that stage:



1. He's big.

2. He's a killer already.

3. He's big

4. At that point, I need every bit of help I can get, with the Blight and Loghain's goons out to collect a bounty on me. Friends and allies are a commodity I am sorely lacking, at that point.

5. Did I mention he's REALLY big? Yes? Well, there you go. He's big and he kills things, At that point in the game, my recruitment standards are pretty low.



Naturally, as the game progresses, my female Wardens, especially MAGE female Wardens, start wondering the wisdom of their descision, since they really aren't much into farming or shopkeeping, and in the case of mages, have an unholy attachment to their tongues and not living in filthy dungeons like animals. But somehow, they always end up with pretty high approval from the big guy, which is the mystery of the ages.



But he's big, he kills things, and has an indsidious sweet tooth that causes him to steal cookies from fat kids. You need Sten, no matter how you RP.

[_Aine_]

The wardens, despite Alistair's high esteem for their "honor", are in large part comprised of the outcasts society and in many cases steal people from certain death due to punishment from crimes they have commit, in order to gain members in their ranks. Pickpockets, murderers, thieves....any and all of these have the skill sets you need to be a warden. Being in the grey wardens MAKES you give up your past life, whatever it was -- and for those escaping a life of crime ( or the death due to one) it offers a chance of redemption. (A recurring theme in this game actually, look at the legion of the dead for example - as well, Sten says he seeks atonement.)



So, basically sten FITS who the grey wardens are comprised of at the very least. Now, regardless of that, he would still be a good member. Why? He is a general, a top soldier for his people. He is very skilled warrior and managed to kill an entire family unarmed. He, like him or not, would be a valuable helper on your mission. (He really starts to kick serious ass later in the game when you build him up too -- i avoided him several playthroughs and then forced myself to play through with him in one, and by level 10 or so he was a damage MACHINE)



I grew to like Sten, a mod and a real chance later. He is one of the easiest to dislike on what is obvious ( the easiest being Loghain imho ) but he quickly became the character I got the easiest approval points from. Sten and my character just *got* each other I guess.



In the end its kind of pointless because he isn't to be a grey warden anyway, and frankly, you need all the help you can get. That, and you have killed thousands, extinguishing lives as need be to get you where you need to go - he gets out of line, you could in theory just dispose of him. This way, he gets the chance at atonement ( as I think he really does express remorse) and you get skilled help on your mission. Win win.

[Kr0gan]

Feraele wrote...

One other thing I'd like to say about Sten, he likes to push your buttons to see what you are made of...someone in this thread stated that Sten attempted to take over leadership of his party.

I've never seen him do that..hehe ..It could just be he thought you weren't a good leader ..OR he was pushing to see how you would react.

I find if I "stand up" to Sten when he "seems" to be criticizing me, I always get approval from him.

He wants to see that you have backbone, guts...he doesn't want a weakling for a leader.

Too much conclussions for a scene you didn't see.

He defies you because the ****** don't want to proceed with the quest for the Sacred Ashes and want to go "Leroy jenkins" on the darkspawn. Of course, when i showed him my force, he saw my reason (ha, that reminds me of the national phrase of my country "By reason or force").

I don't know the rest but a man that just kill a family in a moment of panic/frustration/whatever could be more humble in my opinion.

[Viglin]

Spitz6860 wrote...

so you don't find the fact that he killed all those people and then just sit there waiting to get arrested and executed odd? when i first heard it i was sure there was a misunderstanding and what he told me is not the complete story.

Yes, he threw a hissy fit for lossing his sword...hell of a reason for killing innocents, including children...who were trying to help him!

Op-Only thing l can say is, we Wardens are not Paladins...but that doesn not mean we still cant have our own moral code.
I just wish we had the optio9n of killing him in the cage like we do with so many other prisoners.

[Allison W]

I didn't have to do any metagaming to recruit him. My city elf rogue's concept is a sweetheart who hates nothing more than killing someone who doesn't have to die (or, in this case, leaving them for dead), and while he said nothing in his own defense, he was very clearly remorseful.



Now, with my human noble warrior with noble intentions butting heads with serious anger issues... it's a much more difficult question. I can definitely see her being absolutely furious with him for what he did and concluding that leaving him to the darkspawn is what he deserves, but I'm also tempted to recruit him solely for the opportunity to butt heads with him and bust him down when he gets out of line.

[Eudaemonium]

I have to say, playing a female PC and butting heads with Sten is strangely satisfying.

Sten: 'I don't understand, you look like a woman.'

Warden: 'STFU, Sten.'

(Sten approves +8).

[Sylvius the Mad]

My Dalish Rogue just picked his lock and let him out. Anyone improsoned by the humans deserves to be released, and he seemed like a good fighter against the Darkspawn. Why wouldn't I let him out?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Eudaemonium wrote...

I have to say, playing a female PC and butting heads with Sten is strangely satisfying.
Sten: 'I don't understand, you look like a woman.'
Warden: 'STFU, Sten.'
(Sten approves +8).

I actually think that a female PC recruiting Sten would add a very interesting perspective into Sten's personality.

He starts off by not understanding how a woman can be a warrior, and then evolves (potentially) by considering her a kadan, a leader and going back to his land telling everyone that she was the only human who impressed him.

[Feraele]

Kr0gan wrote...

Feraele wrote...

One other thing I'd like to say about Sten, he likes to push your buttons to see what you are made of...someone in this thread stated that Sten attempted to take over leadership of his party.

I've never seen him do that..hehe ..It could just be he thought you weren't a good leader ..OR he was pushing to see how you would react.

I find if I "stand up" to Sten when he "seems" to be criticizing me, I always get approval from him.

He wants to see that you have backbone, guts...he doesn't want a weakling for a leader.

Too much conclussions for a scene you didn't see.

He defies you because the ****** don't want to proceed with the quest for the Sacred Ashes and want to go "Leroy jenkins" on the darkspawn. Of course, when i showed him my force, he saw my reason (ha, that reminds me of the national phrase of my country "By reason or force").

I don't know the rest but a man that just kill a family in a moment of panic/frustration/whatever could be more humble in my opinion.

Depends on how much approval you had from him..if you didn't spend time talking to him, and finding him gifts (just like any other companion) he's not going to want to listen to you or cooperate.

There are places that I absolutely won't take Morrigan or Sten, because both of them are not the..save the child up the tree types.    They won't approve if you spend time trying to settle a dispute.     They won't approve if you try to save the Redcliffe villagers.

So  knowing  that now after (13 run-throughs)  I deliberately do not take them into situations where I know I will lose approval with either one.   Makes it easier to grab the other companions and work on them instead.

I have had every recruitable companion up to 90 to 100% approval by endgame...heh only because I took the time to work on that.

[Kenrae]

Eudaemonium wrote...

First - if you have Leliana on your team the Chantry Mother just gives you the key when you ask for it. There is no use for force or intimidation.

Second, regarding RP. It is made pretty clear by both Sten and the villagers that Sten did not resist arrest. He simpyl waited for the Templars - which is disquieteneing in itself, seeing as he was surrounded by dead people. But from my perspective, I tend to look at it like invoking teh right of conscription - youa re conscripting Sten to help you fight the Blight - either as a form fo atonement (which he seems moderately interested in doing), or simply to have another pair of hands. You are being pretty pressured into the whole 'saving the world' role, and are pretty short of help as it is. In my opinion, a self-serving character will recruit Sten simply to take the load off of him/herself: here's a strong guy who can do my work for me. A good character will, IMO, give him a chance at atonement. I also think it depends on the self-image of your character: for instance, 'do I consider myself strong enough to take this guy out if he gets out of line'.

Similarly, why would anyone in their right mind recruit Leliana - who basically appears like a crazy woman with visions covered in blood when you first meet her, and insists that God told her to come with you. She can obviously fight, and is somewhat loose in the head - which might inhibit your quest. Also Zevran, who tries to kill you, or Shale - who is a giant stone statue that could crush your head at a moment's notice. The only characters that any fully sane Warden would associate with are Alistair, Wynne and your Dog.

Wynne can be really close-minded, for instance when she discovers that Morrigan is an apostate. And let's not talk about Alistair "I put my personal vendetta over saving the world".

So, only the dog .

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

I have to say, playing a female PC and butting heads with Sten is strangely satisfying.
Sten: 'I don't understand, you look like a woman.'
Warden: 'STFU, Sten.'
(Sten approves +8).

I actually think that a female PC recruiting Sten would add a very interesting perspective into Sten's personality.

He starts off by not understanding how a woman can be a warrior, and then evolves (potentially) by considering her a kadan, a leader and going back to his land telling everyone that she was the only human who impressed him.

I have a really hard time imagining him saying anything like that. Does he call you Kadan in the game if your female?

[Wishpig]

Eudaemonium wrote...

I have to say, playing a female PC and butting heads with Sten is strangely satisfying.
Sten: 'I don't understand, you look like a woman.'
Warden: 'STFU, Sten.'
(Sten approves +8).

Argh, I like Sten, but I have NO freakin idea how his approval works. It's all over the board with that guy... and it's almost always an extreme + or -... no -1's or +2's... it's all +10's and -9's (Hope you understood what I mean by that.)

I can be a jerk to him, show my strength and backbone, and get +8. I can be nice to him and accepting and get +7. I can be a jerk and show my strength and get a - 10 and I can be nice and show acceptence and get a -10. I can find little to no problem.

That said, whether I try or don't try I always end up getting an extremely high approval rating from him by the end game. Always in the 70's at least. And I never really take him anywhere. Further more, I can be an evil dwarf warrior or a goody toe shoes mage and still win massive approval despite saying what my character should.

I don't get that giant at all... but I like him

I do have to say, I did dislike him a little after the personal quest.

Modifié par Wishpig, 23 février 2010 - 09:46 .

[Eudaemonium]

@Solostran85: Yes, he does call a female character kadan. Its actually an interesting development, as KnightofPhoenix said. I find his development from a female Warden's perspective interesting because he starts off being very against a woman fighter, but you win his approval and respect through your actions (and giving him paintings). Ironically, the only other character *other* than the pc who he will actually call 'kadan' is ('technically') female.



@Wishpig: Sten is one of those strange characters with regards to approval. He's very easy to get *massive* boosts from with the right options, and the right options seems to vary a fair bit. In general, he'll approve of you standing up to him with regards to decisions. For example, when he challenges you on something, passing the Persuade check will almost always result in approval gain, rather than simply lessen the dissapproval hits you get with some other characters. I personally really like him. He does regret his actions, and none of my characters ever really comprehend exactly why he did it on anything other than a superficial level (how could they, none of them are Qunari or have that level of emotional and spiritual investment in an object). Nonetheless, they can understand it, even if they don't condone it. And he always ends up a firm friend. Much as Zevran does, much to many people's surprise.

[Feraele]

Solostran85 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

I have to say, playing a female PC and butting heads with Sten is strangely satisfying.
Sten: 'I don't understand, you look like a woman.'
Warden: 'STFU, Sten.'
(Sten approves +8).

I actually think that a female PC recruiting Sten would add a very interesting perspective into Sten's personality.

He starts off by not understanding how a woman can be a warrior, and then evolves (potentially) by considering her a kadan, a leader and going back to his land telling everyone that she was the only human who impressed him.

I have a really hard time imagining him saying anything like that. Does he call you Kadan in the game if your female?

Yes, definitely..although we also get into discussion about cookies.   I think if I took a trip to Qunari lands as an "ambassador" the first gift I would bring..is a crate of cookies for sure.

Modifié par Feraele, 24 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[Feraele]

Wishpig wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

I have to say, playing a female PC and butting heads with Sten is strangely satisfying.
Sten: 'I don't understand, you look like a woman.'
Warden: 'STFU, Sten.'
(Sten approves +8).

Argh, I like Sten, but I have NO freakin idea how his approval works. It's all over the board with that guy... and it's almost always an extreme + or -... no -1's or +2's... it's all +10's and -9's (Hope you understood what I mean by that.)

I can be a jerk to him, show my strength and backbone, and get +8. I can be nice to him and accepting and get +7. I can be a jerk and show my strength and get a - 10 and I can be nice and show acceptence and get a -10. I can find little to no problem.

That said, whether I try or don't try I always end up getting an extremely high approval rating from him by the end game. Always in the 70's at least. And I never really take him anywhere. Further more, I can be an evil dwarf warrior or a goody toe shoes mage and still win massive approval despite saying what my character should.

I don't get that giant at all... but I like him

I do have to say, I did dislike him a little after the personal quest.

I've gotten him to 100% approval more than once, same for Morrigan.    I don't know why that is..maybe I relate better to them.    I tend to go for more unusual types anyways, they are more intriguing to me.