236 réponses à ce sujet

[Kimarous]

Fycan wrote...

He's like Shale, who I don't recruit.
They are both murderers
and through their first dialogues they clearly stated they don't feel
ashamed nor guilty about anything they did. And that's why I cannot take them with me.
I consider these 2 even worst than Loghain, at least Loghain was doing it for the people of Ferelden, these 2 guys... pffffffff

YES! Because the intentional killing of single people is much more heinous than allowing thousands to die for the higher purpose of childhood trauma!

...wait, what?

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I was sad when i couldn't get Sten a cookie for a gift.

Modifié par Solostran85, 23 février 2010 - 10:20 .

[_Aine_]

Solostran85 wrote...

I was sad when i couldn't get Sten a cookie for a gift.

I gave him the piece of soggy cake my dog found. Never has +1 approval felt so right.  

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

shantisands wrote...

Solostran85 wrote...

I was sad when i couldn't get Sten a cookie for a gift.

I gave him the piece of soggy cake my dog found. Never has +1 approval felt so right.  

Lol. I remember a time when I bought him a gift and when I gave it to him i didn't get any approval all he said was
" What am I going to do with this?" or something like that.

Modifié par Solostran85, 23 février 2010 - 10:28 .

[Kenrae]

Maybe people should remember Dragonage is not governed by d&d-style black&white morals, much like reality. All this talk about good and evil puzzles me, really.



Wynne irks me more than any other companion, it's curious.

[_Aine_]

Kenrae wrote...

Maybe people should remember Dragonage is not governed by d&d-style black&white morals, much like reality. .

Would be a good reason they were the GREY wardens, hmmm?  

So yes, I agree with you.  Wynne bothers me when she speaks to Zev, after just killing 2 thousand people/things " You do know that murder is wrong?"  Um, ok Wynne. Mind freezing and shattering the next 3 guys who attack you please and then we can continue this discussion?  

Even our companions "morals" are based on RL circumstance.  If you have a problem with killing in the name of your goal, a grey warden is probably not a healthy occupation.  
Now saying that, living in those days, in those circumstances, being too moral to save your own arse is probably also not the best idea.  

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Solostran85 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

I have to say, playing a female PC and butting heads with Sten is strangely satisfying.
Sten: 'I don't understand, you look like a woman.'
Warden: 'STFU, Sten.'
(Sten approves +8).

I actually think that a female PC recruiting Sten would add a very interesting perspective into Sten's personality.

He starts off by not understanding how a woman can be a warrior, and then evolves (potentially) by considering her a kadan, a leader and going back to his land telling everyone that she was the only human who impressed him.

I have a really hard time imagining him saying anything like that. Does he call you Kadan in the game if your female?

Yep. In all my playthroughs he has, and even thought I was all shades of awesome for locating his sword. He isn't one of my favorite characters, yet I've never had any problems getting him up to 100, even having left over artwork to spare. It's because his approval jumps are pretty massive, when you answer a question correctly.

And by the way, if you Defend Redcliffe, he doesn't disapprove if you pass a persuassion check and tell him you need to see the Arl. You gain a +2 approval raise with him.

So Sten can end up considering a female character as even more than an equal. But I have yet to have a female character even consider accompanying him back to quanari land, especially not the mages. I just take his word for what Par Vollen is like, and stay happily attached to my tongue.

[Feraele]

Solostran85 wrote...

shantisands wrote...

Solostran85 wrote...

I was sad when i couldn't get Sten a cookie for a gift.

I gave him the piece of soggy cake my dog found. Never has +1 approval felt so right.  

Lol. I remember a time when I bought him a gift and when I gave it to him i didn't get any approval all he said was
" What am I going to do with this?" or something like that.

Have to be careful not to give gifts that might belong to another character.   For instance, Sten likes artwork..believe it or not...I wonder if he has a poetic soul.

[Velvetmeds]

this isn't D&D

[Herr Uhl]

Feraele wrote...

Have to be careful not to give gifts that might belong to another character.   For instance, Sten likes artwork..believe it or not...I wonder if he has a poetic soul.

It is you that come from the underdeveloped semi-barbarian country, remember that.

[Feraele]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Have to be careful not to give gifts that might belong to another character.   For instance, Sten likes artwork..believe it or not...I wonder if he has a poetic soul.

It is you that come from the underdeveloped semi-barbarian country, remember that.

Ohhh right   Forgot that hehe

[Feraele]

Velvetmeds wrote...

this isn't D&D

And....your point?   What are you referring to?

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Feraele wrote...

Velvetmeds wrote...

this isn't D&D

And....your point?   What are you referring to?

I think he means D&D is all white and black. Where DAO is like shades of gray. In terms of morality

[Hostetler]

Fycan wrote...

He's like Shale, who I don't recruit.
They are both murderers
and through their first dialogues they clearly stated they don't feel
ashamed nor guilty about anything they did. And that's why I cannot take them with me.
I consider these 2 even worst than Loghain, at least Loghain was doing it for the people of Ferelden, these 2 guys... pffffffff

 In the words of House Stark - winter is coming ... and the Wall is bare.

the grey wardens are NOT a bunch of goody goody paladin types to begin with (for example - Duncan and the ritual) now after Ostagar there are only 2 left and a blight to fight, I am pretty sure I would take ( and I use this only for effect)  Adolf Hitler himself if he can weild a blade and was willing to fight darkspawn. I wouldn't like it, but to do otherwise would mean giving the blight a better chance of destroying everything.  when faced with 2 evils take the one you know and roll the dice.

[Wishpig]

Fycan wrote...

He's like Shale, who I don't recruit.
They are both murderers
and through their first dialogues they clearly stated they don't feel
ashamed nor guilty about anything they did. And that's why I cannot take them with me.
I consider these 2 even worst than Loghain, at least Loghain was doing it for the people of Ferelden, these 2 guys... pffffffff

Sten, yeah, he killed innocent people for trying to help them. Sure he "panicked" but even as he panicked he knew they were innocent and still killed them. He's a murderer.

Shale isn't really in the same boat as Sten. She killed the guy who enslaved her for years. Yeah she murdered him, yeah it wasn't right, but at least you can see where she's coming from. Plus if you recruit her it feels natural, unlike Sten's recruitment which feels akward and out of place.

[Allison W]

Even D&D wised up enough to dump total (and absurdly inconsistent) black-and-white morality, though alignment remains in watered-down form.

Also, I don't really hold Wilhelm's death against Shale. Even if she did it, it's hard to blame her. It isn't remotely comparable to the actions of, say, Sten or Loghain. Admittedly, I don't necessarily like her attitude towards humanity in general, but it's somewhat understandable after what she's been through.

Modifié par Allison W, 23 février 2010 - 11:27 .

[maxernst]

Hostetler wrote...

[
 In the words of House Stark - winter is coming ... and the Wall is bare.

the grey wardens are NOT a bunch of goody goody paladin types to begin with (for example - Duncan and the ritual) now after Ostagar there are only 2 left and a blight to fight, I am pretty sure I would take ( and I use this only for effect)  Adolf Hitler himself if he can weild a blade and was willing to fight darkspawn. I wouldn't like it, but to do otherwise would mean giving the blight a better chance of destroying everything.  when faced with 2 evils take the one you know and roll the dice.

But who knows if he's willing to fight darkspawn?  At least when I spoke to him, he didn't say "Free me and I'll help you".  All he tells me prior to talking to the Reverend Mother is that he did something horrible which he chooses not to explain.  So my first thought (from a non-metagaming point of view, obviously as a gamer, I know he's a potential companion) is that he doesn't know why he did it--he's insane.  I don't want to be around the next time he goes on an inexplicable homicidal rampage.  If he murders me and Alistair, that doesn't help against the blight.

[Kr0gan]

Feraele wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

Feraele wrote...

One other thing I'd like to say about Sten, he likes to push your buttons to see what you are made of...someone in this thread stated that Sten attempted to take over leadership of his party.

I've never seen him do that..hehe ..It could just be he thought you weren't a good leader ..OR he was pushing to see how you would react.

I find if I "stand up" to Sten when he "seems" to be criticizing me, I always get approval from him.

He wants to see that you have backbone, guts...he doesn't want a weakling for a leader.

Too much conclussions for a scene you didn't see.

He defies you because the ****** don't want to proceed with the quest for the Sacred Ashes and want to go "Leroy jenkins" on the darkspawn. Of course, when i showed him my force, he saw my reason (ha, that reminds me of the national phrase of my country "By reason or force").

I don't know the rest but a man that just kill a family in a moment of panic/frustration/whatever could be more humble in my opinion.

Depends on how much approval you had from him..if you didn't spend time talking to him, and finding him gifts (just like any other companion) he's not going to want to listen to you or cooperate.

There are places that I absolutely won't take Morrigan or Sten, because both of them are not the..save the child up the tree types.    They won't approve if you spend time trying to settle a dispute.     They won't approve if you try to save the Redcliffe villagers.

So  knowing  that now after (13 run-throughs)  I deliberately do not take them into situations where I know I will lose approval with either one.   Makes it easier to grab the other companions and work on them instead.

I have had every recruitable companion up to 90 to 100% approval by endgame...heh only because I took the time to work on that.

So?

I had almost full aproval of Sten and that only lead me to discover that i prefered him quiet. He spend all the time judging others according to his rigid culture (and superior according to him) and talking crap about humans, something curious because Qunari seem to have the same faults.

[LadyDamodred]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...



So Sten can end up considering a female character as even more than an equal. But I have yet to have a female character even consider accompanying him back to quanari land, especially not the mages. I just take his word for what Par Vollen is like, and stay happily attached to my tongue.

The only time my female char accompanied Sten was when Alistair made the US. Since she basically felt dead inside, and no one seemed to really care, she thought the Qunari might be the people to hang with. Maybe give her a chance to heal without watching people celebrate.



As a side note and completely off topic, as far as D&D morality goes, any thoughts on how 4th edition handles it? I know how I feel, just curious about others. If the question is too OT, feel feel to beat me with sticks. Small sticks, preferably.

[knittzu]

Kr0gan wrote...
I had almost full aproval of Sten and that only lead me to discover that i prefered him quiet. He spend all the time judging others according to his rigid culture (and superior according to him) and talking crap about humans, something curious because Qunari seem to have the same faults.

Which is pretty much the definition of a toxic personality. At the point in the game you're talking about, I was praying my dog would bring me a sock to stuff in his mouth.  Two socks, really -- Wynne is just as self-righteous and judgemental, but at least she's never killed an entire family of innocents during a temper tantrum.

[Myusha]

At the end of the day.

You do it to end the Blight.

Your pary consists of...

A Dog.

A Witch who does anything to survive. ANYTHING.

Another Grey Warden, who believes the Order to be one of the most epic HEROIC things evar.

A Chantry Sister who got a vision, or in reality a Bard/Criminal from Orlais.

A Quanri who murdered an entire family, and states how your race is inferior and how he intends to invade you.

A Golem who enjoys murdering things, with several different fashions.

A Drunkard disgrace from Orzammar, with nothing left in life.

A Assassin who was hired to kill you, AND will attempt to if his apporval is low during a certain point of the game.

A Whiny Grandmother-Like Mage, who thinks the Grey Wardens are like a bunch of heroes who have morals, to end something that can destroy us all.

And an optional replacement, with a Bastard who's as likely to stab you in the back, as a fish is to breath water.



To a Grey Warden, the end justifies the means. Thus, idealistically, Golems and Werewolves should be in the final battle, with Mages, Dwarves, and Redcliffe's Knights.

[TheRealIncarnal]

Yeah, that pretty much says it. You get Sten because you need more people and he fits the bill. He's clearly strong because he easily killed all those people, and provided that you can keep him under control then he could be of use to you.



The real question I have a hard time answering is why would I ever NOT kill Zevran? I mean, he's actually tried to kill ME and prior to that part of the game I have no reason to trust him or think him as being any different that any other scum who I've put to the sword.

[LadyDamodred]

As far as Zevran goes, my character questions him because she needs info. He comes across as fairly straightforward. Quite frankly, she understand his motivations far more than Sten's, and she's willing to give Sten a shot. Also at that point, she is quite aware that she can take Zevran, while she's never actually fought Sten...



As it is, the stories are just vague enough that the PC can decide their own reasons for making their decisions, which is nice.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

So Sten can end up considering a female character as even more than an equal. But I have yet to have a female character even consider accompanying him back to quanari land, especially not the mages. I just take his word for what Par Vollen is like, and stay happily attached to my tongue.

The only time my female char accompanied Sten was when Alistair made the US. Since she basically felt dead inside, and no one seemed to really care, she thought the Qunari might be the people to hang with. Maybe give her a chance to heal without watching people celebrate.

As a side note and completely off topic, as far as D&D morality goes, any thoughts on how 4th edition handles it? I know how I feel, just curious about others. If the question is too OT, feel feel to beat me with sticks. Small sticks, preferably.

Now that's one motivation to go, to get a much needed breather and to get away from celebration and revelry when your character feels little reason to celebrate. Just be sure to bring dog and lots of cookies.

[Divine Justinia V]

Lmao I loved when I did "The Urn of Sacred Ashes," and Sten challenged me to fight. Once I beat him he pretty much said 'woops' and asked what to do, I simply replied with ; "just get back in line, Sten." It was a good time.