27 réponses à ce sujet

[WrexKroganKing]

So I've decided to go with Vanguard for my 'perfect' run on Insanity (not my first playthrough on Insanity, so I know what I'm doing), but I'm sick of simply picking Armor Piercing Ammo and nothing else as a bonus talent.

How do Barrier/Fortification/Geth Shield boost actually work (for example, do I have to use the talent immediately after my shields go down again - the huge cooldown is a turn off) and which of those three is best? 

[Revelations10]

I used energy drain(?) It drains shields / damages synthetics and boosts your shields.



I didn't think the barrier/fort/geth shield boost was worth taking for a vanguard, when you upgrade charge you get a small duration shield boost, plus the cooldown on those talents are way too long

And barrier would be the best, because it gets the +power duration / cooldown / power boost from upgrades / armor.

[Jaekahn]

I found that Reave is probably the most beneficial for a Vanguard. However, it truly depends on your playstyle. If you're less focus on the battlefield and you're not entirely aware of all your enemy positions, it might be wise to pick up barrier in the beginning until you can adapt to the class. However, as I mentioned, I think Reave is very beneficial as it also provides you a boost in survivability. In addition, as long as the target is vulnerable, it also serves as a crowd control and temporarily disables them too, making you less dependent on biotic charge.

[congokurtz]

I took AP ammo.



I've read that barrier is very good for a vanguard. I am not sure why since every cooldown I was using charge and getting my shields back anyway. I'm not sure why you would use a cooldown period to use barrier unless there was a passive bonus to your shields that you get every time you charge. Maybe someone can explain it to me.



Reave is another good choice for emergency health regen and taking down the armor of an enemy that is not safe to charge.

[cptlee]

I took Geth shield as a panic button. It helped a lot. But as fun as vanguard was on ME1, it was really hard to play it right in ME2. Soldier in ME2 is still the funnest and easiest by FAR!

[Jaekahn]

I'd agree when saying that Soldier is the easiest to play. However, in relation to the funnest, that all depends on the player. I, personally, find the Soldier class to be boring with lack of fulfillment. I know the class is appealing and it was interesting to see what Blizzard improved with it, but its playstyle simply does not appeal to me.



My favorite two classes in ME2 are most definately the Engineer and the Infiltrator. Where I was a big Biotic fan in ME1, I've grown to like tech more in ME2.

[padaE]

AP Ammo is the best choice.

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But as you don't want it, you could try dominate, I just think you won't have much opportunities to use it, it's better just charge... so why don't you try Slam istead of pull? It might be usefull.

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I would not pick any defense skill however.

[Kurupt87]

it really does depend on your playstyle. if you are going the route of the mad charger then you actually dont need one, every cd is used on charge. maybe 1 pt in barrier for those times that your going to die and cant/shouldnt charge, it also frees you up letting you get pull field, whih is powerful due to really low cd, thus not preventing charges, and its ability to set up warp explosion from a squaddie. reave if you play slightly safe, ie spend a cd or two softening the enemy up before charging around. ap ammo is worse than inferno for vanguards, the aoe panic (that penetrates shields/barrier) has saved my bacon *so* many times that without it i'd have thrown my mouse through my screen and controller through the tv.

[sinosleep]

WrexKroganKing wrote...

So I've decided to go with Vanguard for my 'perfect' run on Insanity (not my first playthrough on Insanity, so I know what I'm doing), but I'm sick of simply picking Armor Piercing Ammo and nothing else as a bonus talent.

How do Barrier/Fortification/Geth Shield boost actually work (for example, do I have to use the talent immediately after my shields go down again - the huge cooldown is a turn off) and which of those three is best? 

Here's a thread that went into GSB/Fort/Barrier in detail with video evidence as well.

All the shield talents work pretty much the same way. The only major differences are that if you choose to go the non-hardened version of GSB you get +10% weapon damage and that while GSB and Barrier both benefit from either the 20% tech or 20% biotic cool down upgrades, fortification will ALWAYS have a 12 second cool down, making it the weakest of the three. 

IMO, none of them are worth it, even though they stack with the charge bonus cause they get shot to pieces in no time and you lose the benefit of the ability the instant shields go down, not when the duration ends. Coupled with the obscene cool downs I just don't see much point in using them.

In fact, I don't think any bonus power at all is worth it. Inferno's DOT is applied INSANTLY to armor so the only real difference between it and AP is a damage difference of less than 10% while gaining area CC. If you watch my vids you can see that on more than 1 occasion I charge a group of 2 or 3 guys and have set them all on fire (so they can't shoot me) simply by virtue of shooting the first guy. That's precious seconds where I'm not taking any damage. Well worth having to take an extra shot with the scimitar considering it shoots so fast. I think having access to squad cryo ammo or area pull are both better than any bonus power in the game. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 23 février 2010 - 04:47 .

[congokurtz]

I found the inferno ammo more of a problem then a help. I found the panic effect made enemies harder to get headshots on with my shotgun. AP ammo is slightly higher damage and does the damage instantly rather than over a few seconds. But, this was just my personal experience and I am not the greatest shot with that eviscerator.

[sinosleep]

The DOT only applies to health. Devs have confirmed that all dots in game are applied instantly to defenses.

[Hellraisin]

AP ammo is a great skill but a bit overrated, warp ammo and inferno ammo both have extra benefits to offset AP's damage bonus. besides if you want your squad to use cryo ammo, you will have to put 3 points in incendiary so why not go with inferno. i've done IFF mission last night with Thane and Samara, both were using Tempest with Cryo on and I use Tempest with Inferno, husk go down super fast with occasional pull field and throw, it was great

[aeetos21]

Meh, I used fortification (great animation BTW) but its cooldown was just too long to be of any real use. Reave worked better but still the build I had with it seemed that it could be better.

So I went on here and learned the wonders of squad cryo ammo/AP ammo - and I never looked back. Basically it boils down to your two squadmates crowd-controlling enemies left and right so you're free to charge, sendshockwaves, use armor piercing rounds to wreck uncontrollable havoc on the battlefield. Only catch is you have to be careful that your squadmates don't replace cryo ammo with something else at an inconveniate time.

Which is why Jacob becomes dead to me on insanity, he will ALWAYS has inferno ammo. Miranda's better, the best IMO, since she can break down shields, armor, and barrier while not having any ammo powers to override your own squad cryo. Add in the squad buffs and... off topic, lol.

Edit: Armor piercing is great for VG because it turns the one problem shotguns run into (armor) into virtual paper. Shotguns work great on shields and barriers and so once you run it down to just the health, again, armor piercing rounds add a damage bonus to that as well. AND, you're playing VG how it was meant to be played - close combat. The build works.

Modifié par aeetos21, 23 février 2010 - 06:02 .

[Jaekahn]

congokurtz wrote...

I found the inferno ammo more of a problem then a help. I found the panic effect made enemies harder to get headshots on with my shotgun. AP ammo is slightly higher damage and does the damage instantly rather than over a few seconds. But, this was just my personal experience and I am not the greatest shot with that eviscerator.

Not to criticisize your playstyle or anything, but why would you try to get a headshot on a close-ranged target with a shotgun, espacially when they are burned? Wouldn't it be easier and more efficient to just shoot him a couple times? After all, the damage from a shotgun at close range is very strong and since the target's distracted, he would hardly give you a challenge. Now I can understand Incendiary ammo being a pain in the ass for Infiltrators. I recall a few fights on mine where I missed a few shots because of it.

[Jaekahn]

aeetos21 wrote...

Meh, I used fortification (great animation BTW) but its cooldown was just too long to be of any real use. Reave worked better but still the build I had with it seemed that it could be better.

So I went on here and learned the wonders of squad cryo ammo/AP ammo - and I never looked back. Basically it boils down to your two squadmates crowd-controlling enemies left and right so you're free to charge, sendshockwaves, use armor piercing rounds to wreck uncontrollable havoc on the battlefield. Only catch is you have to be careful that your squadmates don't replace cryo ammo with something else at an inconveniate time.

Which is why Jacob becomes dead to me on insanity, he will ALWAYS has inferno ammo. Miranda's better, the best IMO, since she can break down shields, armor, and barrier while not having any ammo powers to override your own squad cryo. Add in the squad buffs and... off topic, lol.

Miranda is indeed the best squad mate you can take with you. I feel that the reason why Bioware made her so strong is because she is your XO, therefore second in command. There is no logic behind having your second in command being the worse squad mate, though I have seen that in a few games. Still, Miranda might be the best choice, but you could still quite possibly work around her on almost every mission as long as you know what you're sacrificing and gaining.

[aeetos21]

Jaekahn wrote...

Miranda is indeed the best squad mate you can take with you. I feel that the reason why Bioware made her so strong is because she is your XO, therefore second in command. There is no logic behind having your second in command being the worse squad mate, though I have seen that in a few games. Still, Miranda might be the best choice, but you could still quite possibly work around her on almost every mission as long as you know what you're sacrificing and gaining.

Oh you can definitely work around - well maybe not on the initial four recruitment missions but afterwards (especially when Zaeed gets the inferno grenade power leveled... )

The derelict reaper ship is one instance when she isn't too useful and I usually swap her out for Grunt and either Zaeed, Jack, or Garrus. Another I can think of is the collector base when I usually use Grunt and Thane for the first two parts and usually let her lead the fire teams.

Can't think of any other specifics at the moment... oh! Tali and Legion make a good combo on the heretic base, but barring that situation. If I'm not using Miranda then I'm almost definitely using Grunt because he's basically a wrecking ball on two legs.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Barrier (one of the options) could last for 3 minutes however if you dont allow yourself to get shot down to health (admittedly harder on insanity)



It's not a useless as I used to think, but Warp Ammo (Squad or Heavy) is easily the most effective Power IMO.



I've never had a squadie override my choice as a squad power though...thats interesting.



Also is it a 12 second Global Cooldown?

[NICKjnp]

Reave... it acts like warp for you. That gives you a distance attack for barrier and armor.

[biomag]

Haven't tried barrier, but reave really improved my performance. Harbringer had a hard time against my vanguard once I got this ability.

[aeetos21]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Barrier (one of the options) could last for 3 minutes however if you dont allow yourself to get shot down to health (admittedly harder on insanity)

It's not a useless as I used to think, but Warp Ammo (Squad or Heavy) is easily the most effective Power IMO.

I've never had a squadie override my choice as a squad power though...thats interesting.

Also is it a 12 second Global Cooldown?

Fortification did, not sure about the others. I did Zaeed's loyalty mission just this morning and gave him and Miranda squad cryo ammo. Now granted when he switched to disruptor it was against enemies who had shields (so I wasn't too annoyed) but since squad power usage was off it was definitely troublesome. Same thing happened in purgatory. So I went back and removed disruptor ammo completely. Jacob does the same thing with inferno ammo which basically nerfs the entire squad cryo crowd control strategy.

If I fought more at long range I'd consider using warp ammo, but since the strategy I call for involves charging into enemies and using the scimitar/melee to keep them off balance? 70% damage against armor and health, that's what AP ammo does. Shotgun fires eight pellets which takes down barriers and shields very quickly, then you have 70% damage on health because you're using AP ammo.

Meanwhile enemies are being frozen so as soon as you finish off the one guy you turn, charge and smash the next enemy before turning and killing the next with the shot/AP ammo. That's like three enemies down in under five seconds.

It's not perfect, you have to be able to play shooters and use effective strategies (flanking, using your environment, deploying your squad effectively, etc...) but so far it works the best for me.

*Edit: AND when you pick up sniper, enemies such as scions and praetorians that used to give vanguards nightmares becore much more manageable.

Modifié par aeetos21, 23 février 2010 - 06:30 .

[DesolCobra]

Honestly I haven't found the perfect bonus talent to take for vanguard.

Like sinosleep said, Inferno Ammo is good enough and depending on circumstances, better than AP Ammo. Other ammo powers aren't worth it.

The next three is the shield boosters and they don't work very well for vanguard because charge allows you to recharge shields in a 3 second cooldown skill. The extra shield pts is rather ptless in insanity mode (one more bullet difference?).

That leaves: dominate / reave / slam / energy drain / neuro shock.

Neuro Shock cooldown is too long, Slam has a fast cooldown but doesn't setup for combo nicely while you natively has pull. Reave is probably the best but is pretty boring spamming (at least Slam can do warp detonation combo at times if you time it nicely + nice animation). Energy Drain is nice but only works vs shield / synthetics but still suffer from longer cooldown.



Personally I like Slam (give up on shockwave / pull altogether) or Energy Drain. Have not really tried dominate ..

[Cloaking_Thane]

Shredder Rounds w/ the green bullets are sexy though

[ODST Steve]

I like Slam. I like its cooldown.

[mundus66]

Reave or barrier imo. Personally i don't like reave that much as a vanguard, i like to be up close and personal, vanguard already has pull, so using it for detonations is just unnecessary, but its nice vs barriers and armor.

I don't like barrier either for the long cooldown, but in some battle charge just isn't an option (mainly ymir mechs and praetorians) here i use barrier to recharge my shields, to be able to continue firing faster, 1 rank is enough though.

Inferno ammo is better than armor piercing imo, since it is only 10% damage less vs armor and it does explode, so it actually does more damage overall and it makes mobs panic.

[FlashAK]

Reave. That way you can weaken armor/barrier before you charge in and finish off with a shotgun.

Modifié par Herbn, 23 février 2010 - 10:16 .