17 réponses à ce sujet

[inert14]

SPOILERS.

I've been trying to wrap my head around exactly how Bioware will manage returning characters in ME3. I see alot of threads supporting the return of certain squadmates (actually, on this forum it seems like each character has a devoted following or thousands or more) but I can't help thinking about how it would be possible to bring back any of your ME2 squadmates in ME3 without significantly downplaying the importance of your decisions/story.

Simply put, I figure the transition from ME2 to ME3 will be handled exactly like the transition from ME1 to ME2. In other words, if a character could die in ME1, they would not be able to return in anything more than a minor role in ME2.

For example, Wrex could die in ME1, therefore his role in ME2 had to be restricted. It would make no sense to code missions/record voice for a character who could only potentially exist in the game, it would be a waste of space on the disc and a waste of time. As such, Wrex's role had to be easily replaced by another character - in this case his brother, so I hear.

Ashley/Kaidan are a special case, as they are 50/50, if one of them dies, the other survives guaranteed. As such, one of them can replace the other in any further story points. This is true in ME2, as whoever survived Virmire was met on Horizon. There are no other 50/50 squadmates throughout ME1 or ME2.
So if a character could die in ME1 or ME2, they can't possibly return as a squadmate in ME3. The problem with this of course is that every ME2 squadmate could die, meaning they couldn't possibly be a squadmate in the next game.

Bioware has already confirmed this line of reasoning by not allowing the "Shepard dies" ending from ME2 to carry over to ME3. Creating a new character other than Shepard would make ME3 impossible to program in a reasonable size or timeframe. It seems apparent to me that it would require too much optional voicework/coding to bring back any of your squadmates in anything more than a small role, such as Wrex's in ME2. As such, only characters that are guaranteed to survive the events of ME1 and ME2 can be squadmates in ME3. This pretty much means only Liara and Ashley/Kaidan or side characters like Joker, Kolyat or the like could possibly return.
If I'm right, it's a major bummer to the supporters for Garrus, Miranda, Tali, Thane, Legion, Mordin, Jacob, Grunt, Zaeed, Kelly, Dr. Chakwas, etc.

I sincerely hope Bioware has some ace-in-the-hole for this, or that I'm simply just plain wrong and it would be easy to include so much variable options.

I mean, it ain't Mass Effect with Garrus and Tali, am I right? 

Modifié par inert14, 23 février 2010 - 08:07 .

[Nozybidaj]

Cameos for all is my guess.

[inert14]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Cameos for all is my guess.

Exactly. Bummer for the "I support ______ for squadmate in ME3"  people.

Modifié par inert14, 23 février 2010 - 08:13 .

[glasgoo21]

Good point and well arguemented. Still, I have difficulties believing that they will not return, I expect ME3 to have a very strong replayability level. Much content will not be accesible for you after first playtrough.



Bioware has made some characters more important then the overall story. I have difficulty believeing they will reduce some more popular characters to cameo's. The ME fanbase is getting more and more character loyal based then just story

[StinkyNelkin]

Well, By this logic, Liara is definitely coming back. Oh yeah!

[inert14]

glasgoo21 wrote...

Good point and well arguemented. Still, I have difficulties believing that they will not return, I expect ME3 to have a very strong replayability level. Much content will not be accesible for you after first playtrough.

Bioware has made some characters more important then the overall story. I have difficulty believeing they will reduce some more popular characters to cameo's. The ME fanbase is getting more and more character loyal based then just story

I hear ya. But how could Bioware just optionally code missions/dialog for Tali or Legion when there is no guarantee that they survive? You'd be looking at a game a dozen discs in length to accomodate all the variables. Unless Bioware opts for some cop out, where your characters never really died. This would negate the importance of your decisions in ME2 of course. I'd rather have surviving squadmates relegated to cameos than have the importance of decisions become downplayed.

You can't just say "Oh, well our fanbase is big so Tali is back!" unless you're comfortable with no continuity.

StinkyNelkin: Yep, she could return for sure. No problems with that at all.

Note: All my squadmates survived and will sruvive in further playthroughs. I'm concerned about the possibility that they will not survive.

Modifié par inert14, 23 février 2010 - 08:50 .

[Daeion]

NO NEW SQUAD MATES IN ME3!!!!!!!



seriously, I have 16 possible squad members as it is to choose from, if someone got their crew killed then too bad, deal with rand red shirts that don't deserve development.

[SmokePants]

There's really no point in trying to convince people of this fact. They'll just plug their ears and start humming. The reality won't set in for them until we start seeing materials for ME3 next year. The crescendo of panic will be hilarious to watch unfold.

[TyDurden13]

Forum really needs a search function, or to sticky one of these threads. We don't know yet. There's some popular quotes from Casey Hudson saying all the survivors will be playable, and there's loads of people saying there's no way they'll be able to implement them, there's other quotes saying the devs will look at playthrough stats of ME2 before deciding who's in, and there's a plethora of theories as to what characters will survive the canon (default non-ME2 import) playthrough, or who would and wouldn't leave the crew after the suicide mission. We just don't know yet.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

inert14 wrote...

glasgoo21 wrote...

Good point and well arguemented. Still, I have difficulties believing that they will not return, I expect ME3 to have a very strong replayability level. Much content will not be accesible for you after first playtrough.

Bioware has made some characters more important then the overall story. I have difficulty believeing they will reduce some more popular characters to cameo's. The ME fanbase is getting more and more character loyal based then just story

I hear ya. But how could Bioware just optionally code missions/dialog for Tali or Legion when there is no guarantee that they survive? You'd be looking at a game a dozen discs in length to accomodate all the variables. Unless Bioware opts for some cop out, where your characters never really died. This would negate the importance of your decisions in ME2 of course. I'd rather have surviving squadmates relegated to cameos than have the importance of decisions become downplayed.

You can't just say "Oh, well our fanbase is big so Tali is back!" unless you're comfortable with no continuity.

StinkyNelkin: Yep, she could return for sure. No problems with that at all.

Note: All my squadmates survived and will sruvive in further playthroughs. I'm concerned about the possibility that they will not survive.

Why not just develop the game assuming that everyone survived - and the people who got some of their squadmates killed simply miss out on them in ME3. That's also an adequate "punishment" for rushing into a suicide mission unprepared.

[Marta Rio]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Forum really needs a search function, or to sticky one of these threads. We don't know yet. There's some popular quotes from Casey Hudson saying all the survivors will be playable, and there's loads of people saying there's no way they'll be able to implement them, there's other quotes saying the devs will look at playthrough stats of ME2 before deciding who's in, and there's a plethora of theories as to what characters will survive the canon (default non-ME2 import) playthrough, or who would and wouldn't leave the crew after the suicide mission. We just don't know yet.

Ditto this.  I've seen well-reasoned arguments both for and against the inclusion of previous squadmates in ME3 in various threads.  It's quite possible the devs don't even know for sure what they're going to do about it.  They may have a plan, but it may change once they start implementing it and coming up against challenges.

[Magnabyte]

you could see the loss of squad mates in ME2 as a random factor during ME2, and I never saw it as a "choice". Bioware tend to prefer to save your choices, not random factors. Personally I'm far more intrested on how they will do the transition, since we're going to have to start at level 1 again in ME3. Was going to make a thread on the question, though if anyone knows a pre existing one I would be very happy to accept a link

[GenericPlayer2]

I agree entirely with the OP, except with a few minor points. There is no guarantee that ME3 will have any character development for squad members, since that was the main theme in ME2 already. Therefore they might include them as team members but there will be no more loyalty quests or lengthly dialog trees. Not sure how it will turn out, but I am inclined to believe that they will all be cameos.



However, even if they are cameo's I hope what they are up to is a reflection of our choices in ME2. For example I don't want to help Tali evade exile and then see her in ME3 obsessed with the Shadow Broker or something completely unrelated.If I did get her exiled then I expect to see her on Omega or something selling salvage and getting by.

[KotOREffecT]

Magnabyte wrote...

you could see the loss of squad mates in ME2 as a random factor during ME2, and I never saw it as a "choice". Bioware tend to prefer to save your choices, not random factors. Personally I'm far more intrested on how they will do the transition, since we're going to have to start at level 1 again in ME3. Was going to make a thread on the question, though if anyone knows a pre existing one I would be very happy to accept a link

Well you could start off at whatever level you are on, and they would just raise the level cap up way higher..

[TyDurden13]

Magnabyte wrote...

you could see the loss of squad mates in ME2 as a random factor during ME2, and I never saw it as a "choice". Bioware tend to prefer to save your choices, not random factors.

Except the deaths in ME2 are not random, and are entirely based on your choices and the consequences thereof.  It would be a shame if that has no real payoff in ME3, because who lived and died in the suicide mish is a HUGE outcome. of the game.  But again, no-one really knows what the plan is.

Personally I'm far more intrested on how they will do the transition,
since we're going to have to start at level 1 again in ME3. Was going
to make a thread on the question, though if anyone knows a pre existing
one I would be very happy to accept a link

We don't know this yet either  a lot of people have speculated that since the cap for ME2 was 30, that means it will carry over to ME3 and the cap for that will be 60 (as it was in ME1).  But we have nothing but speculation on that either.

Modifié par TyDurden13, 23 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[dinin70]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

inert14 wrote...

glasgoo21 wrote...

Good point and well arguemented. Still, I have difficulties believing that they will not return, I expect ME3 to have a very strong replayability level. Much content will not be accesible for you after first playtrough.

Bioware has made some characters more important then the overall story. I have difficulty believeing they will reduce some more popular characters to cameo's. The ME fanbase is getting more and more character loyal based then just story

I hear ya. But how could Bioware just optionally code missions/dialog for Tali or Legion when there is no guarantee that they survive? You'd be looking at a game a dozen discs in length to accomodate all the variables. Unless Bioware opts for some cop out, where your characters never really died. This would negate the importance of your decisions in ME2 of course. I'd rather have surviving squadmates relegated to cameos than have the importance of decisions become downplayed.

You can't just say "Oh, well our fanbase is big so Tali is back!" unless you're comfortable with no continuity.

StinkyNelkin: Yep, she could return for sure. No problems with that at all.

Note: All my squadmates survived and will sruvive in further playthroughs. I'm concerned about the possibility that they will not survive.

Why not just develop the game assuming that everyone survived - and the people who got some of their squadmates killed simply miss out on them in ME3. That's also an adequate "punishment" for rushing into a suicide mission unprepared.

Totally agree

[aeetos21]

I had an idea a while back and some people thought it had merit. Firstly, there's going to be new ME3 squadmembers - no getting around that. In ME1 you could complete the game with as a few as four team members left and I think BW confirmed you need at least five from ME2 to survive the suicide mission. Or was that five members loyal?



ANYWAY



In order to make up for the potential loss in personnel new people will have to be recruited. Let's say, given who survived in the previous two ME games in order to create a minimal roster you need to recruit at least three or four mandatory ME3 recruits. The rest will come from surviving members of the previous two games.



Now, here's the kicker.



In order for this to work a hidden timer will need to be implemented for ME3. Why? Well for one so that you don't get bogged down having to do each member's side mission and dialogue or what have you but also because the reapers are on the verge of invading. Do as many side missions as you want but as for actual recruitment missions? Maybe three or four initial ones for the new ME3 team and then the rest for surviving members of the two ME2 teams. End result is you're able to have some (if not most) of your crew from the previous two games available for your playthrough. Furthermore this adds replay value since if you weren't able to recruit Garrus or something during your first time through ME3 you can then recruit him on another playthrough or maybe as post-main mission play.



Anyway, that's my idea and I think it meets all the requirements.

[Magnabyte]

I suppose you could be right about the level cap, also, as for the suiside mission since I did everything and never actually lost anyone, what i have read made it seems that its mostly tied to wether you do the loyalty mission or not, and a few semi random factors (our good old salarian scientist sometimes dying when loyal and sometimes not when assigned the same task etc.) Anyway, going back to the level cap issue, I just see them restarting you for the simple fact that thier not going to make new people to the series be forced to play ME3 (no matter what people think, Bioware will not make it neccessary to play ME2 first.) I do wonder about ether some sort of augmentation program to make shepard stronger, or , perhaps the reapers will take several decades to make it all the way from dark space, and you and the team are frozen, we shall see....