165 réponses à ce sujet

[Creston918]

Legion's an awesome team member, and since he immediately pops up on your little squad screen, we as gamers tend to take him for granted. "He's a team member, everything he says should be taken at face value."

But should it?

- Isn't it mightily convenient that there is suddenly a "heretic" Geth faction?
- Isn't it mightily convenient that Legion knows about this virus, and he and Shepard show up just in time to find the virus is complete (yet somehow not activated. Why, were the heretic Geth at lunch?), and it provides an instant solution to the "heretic" faction?
- Despite all Legions assurances that HIS Geth faction is peaceful and doesn't bother anyone as long as they aren't bothered in return, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary in ME1 and ME2. The freighter with the entire crew having been turned into husks as a warning, the Geth who want to crash the weapons freighter onto a colony, the Geth who shoot first, ask questions later on Haestus, etc.
- Legion stalks you to the point of creepiness, supposedly for a good reason. Yet he's a hardcore weapons platform, and a sniper to boot. Coincidence? If they really wanted to show their goodwill, a request to parlay sent to the Council would be a far more effective measure, as opposes to sending a single Geth soldier to chase a single human across the galaxy.


Imo, the Geth could just as easily have concocted the whole "heretic" faction story. Does it really even make sense? The old machine approaches you and tells you that it will grant you the future, if you just help it wipe out all organic races. Part of your race thinks this is awesome and signs up, and the other part thinks it's too easy, and refuses to help. At the same time, the part that refuses to help must realize that if you're not with the Reapers, you're against them. (Legion admits that his Geth are seen as enemies by the Reapers.)

Yet you just go "Oh, well, good luck guys!" and ignore the entire problem?

It seems equally likely to me that Legion is simply lying. The Geth definitely tried to help the Reapers, then suffered heavy losses at the battle of the Citadel. They see that the Quarians are gearing up for war. They have a chance to ingrate themselves with Commander Shepard, come up with a convenient "heretic faction" that they conveniently offer to help you wipe out, and voila. Instant friends, and they can bide their time until they're ready to strike again.

I'm not saying it's true, but Shep seems awfully quick to trust Legion and the Geth.

Scene : Mass Effect 3. The Reapers have arrived. A coalition of organic races is fighting alongside the Geth fleet, trying to safeguard a particularly strategic world.

Shepard : Legion, order the Geth fleet to attack the Reapers from their flanks!
Legion : 100101001001001011.
*Geth fleet obliterates Organic fleet. Reapers cheer.*
Shepard : WTF?
Legion : 

[Rip504]

Exactly Geth are Heritics and Heritics are Geth.

The Geth chose to follow the Reapers then were infected by this virus.
Who isn't to say somewhere down the line other Geth will start to belive The Reapers?The pinnacle for machine life,wipe out all organics.

Or they could be a somewhat peaceful race.

Modifié par Rip504, 23 février 2010 - 08:24 .

[TudorWolf]

The Geth didn't know the Quarians had imminent intent to attack as such. It's not until it scans Tali's omni tool that it gears up to transmit what it's found out.



And why on earth would a secretly hostile Geth help you, attack fellow Geth without any hesitation and get attacked back just as much...?

[kanodin]

Creston918 wrote...

Legion's an awesome team member, and since he immediately pops up on your little squad screen, we as gamers tend to take him for granted. "He's a team member, everything he says should be taken at face value."

But should it?

- Isn't it mightily convenient that there is suddenly a "heretic" Geth faction?
- Isn't it mightily convenient that Legion knows about this virus, and he and Shepard show up just in time to find the virus is complete (yet somehow not activated. Why, were the heretic Geth at lunch?), and it provides an instant solution to the "heretic" faction?
- Despite all Legions assurances that HIS Geth faction is peaceful and doesn't bother anyone as long as they aren't bothered in return, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary in ME1 and ME2. The freighter with the entire crew having been turned into husks as a warning, the Geth who want to crash the weapons freighter onto a colony, the Geth who shoot first, ask questions later on Haestus, etc.
- Legion stalks you to the point of creepiness, supposedly for a good reason. Yet he's a hardcore weapons platform, and a sniper to boot. Coincidence? If they really wanted to show their goodwill, a request to parlay sent to the Council would be a far more effective measure, as opposes to sending a single Geth soldier to chase a single human across the galaxy.

For the third bullet point all of those things were done by the Heretics, assuming their really are two factions.

Let's assume your correct and Legion is lying and their are no Heretics, what does he gain by lying. Deep infiltration into Shepards crew is one factor, though he never takes any opportunities to betray you on the Collector base. I had him as the tech specialist in the vent, he could have just left me trapped outside the door to get overwhelmed, for that matter he could have just headshotted you when you first meet him and his scope is on you, so stopping Shepard is not his goal.

Is his goal to gather data for the reapers? Unlikely considering he already seems aware of your conversation with Soveriegn and therefore a lot of other things, what else would they want to know about you?

Is his goal to rewrite whoever the Heretic Geth really were into whoever he really is? If so why even present the option of blowing them up and then let Shepard go through with it.

Any other possible motives I might have missed?

[Biotic_Warlock]

It sounds like the covenant in Halo, only the heretics are really the good ones.

[DarthCaine]

Legion: Geth do not lie. It is not installed in their programming

Modifié par DarthCaine, 23 février 2010 - 08:35 .

[ExtremeOne]

The Quarians want the geth exterminated and will do what ever it takes to get it done. Tali even begs you to protect her father's illegal work.

[marshalleck]

DarthCaine wrote...

Legion: Geth do not lie. It is not installed in their programming

Unless he's lying when he says that!

Anyways, the reason I take Legion at its word is kind of a metagame reason: I understand that he is the writer's attempt to give us the other side of the story, so I don't second-guess it too much. You're right though, Shepard has many good reasons to be very distrustful of Legion's story and it doesn't help that he's acquired so late in the game. There is no period of building trust between them, it just kinda happens inexplicably when you make the decision to keep Legion around.

Modifié par marshalleck, 23 février 2010 - 08:45 .

[Creston918]

kanodin wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

Legion's an awesome team member, and since he immediately pops up on your little squad screen, we as gamers tend to take him for granted. "He's a team member, everything he says should be taken at face value."

But should it?

- Isn't it mightily convenient that there is suddenly a "heretic" Geth faction?
- Isn't it mightily convenient that Legion knows about this virus, and he and Shepard show up just in time to find the virus is complete (yet somehow not activated. Why, were the heretic Geth at lunch?), and it provides an instant solution to the "heretic" faction?
- Despite all Legions assurances that HIS Geth faction is peaceful and doesn't bother anyone as long as they aren't bothered in return, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary in ME1 and ME2. The freighter with the entire crew having been turned into husks as a warning, the Geth who want to crash the weapons freighter onto a colony, the Geth who shoot first, ask questions later on Haestus, etc.
- Legion stalks you to the point of creepiness, supposedly for a good reason. Yet he's a hardcore weapons platform, and a sniper to boot. Coincidence? If they really wanted to show their goodwill, a request to parlay sent to the Council would be a far more effective measure, as opposes to sending a single Geth soldier to chase a single human across the galaxy.

For the third bullet point all of those things were done by the Heretics, assuming their really are two factions.

Let's assume your correct and Legion is lying and their are no Heretics, what does he gain by lying. Deep infiltration into Shepards crew is one factor, though he never takes any opportunities to betray you on the Collector base. I had him as the tech specialist in the vent, he could have just left me trapped outside the door to get overwhelmed, for that matter he could have just headshotted you when you first meet him and his scope is on you, so stopping Shepard is not his goal.

Is his goal to gather data for the reapers? Unlikely considering he already seems aware of your conversation with Soveriegn and therefore a lot of other things, what else would they want to know about you?

Is his goal to rewrite whoever the Heretic Geth really were into whoever he really is? If so why even present the option of blowing them up and then let Shepard go through with it.

Any other possible motives I might have missed?

If his motive would be to simply kill you, then yes, he could have simply killed you. It's also possible that Legion is a Trojan Horse. Trust him implicitly, then when the right time comes around, he betrays you, and the Reapers win.

Stopping Shepard in the Collector base is possible, but it doesn't really gain them anything. Cerberus can always send someone else to blow the base up, especially since the Normandy has already done the hard work of destroying the Occuluses and the Collector ship.

Also, the Collectors are Harbinger's plan. Sovereign had a different plan. There may be another Reaper with yet another plan, and Legion is currently working for that Reaper.

Alternatively, Legion may just be trying to insinuate himself with you to gain a favorable voice in the coming Quarian - Geth conflict. The Geth aren't stupid. They're listening to broadcasts, they likely know that a small cluster of their own platforms was tested on and became active in the Migrant Fleet, they'd at least have an inkling that the Quarians are planning something.

I don't think there ever was a heretic faction. It's just a smokescreen put up to make Shepard and the rest of the organics feel good about the rest of the Geth. A convenient scapegoat to blame the atrocities of two years ago on. They sacrifice a small base in the middle of absolutely nowhere, with a few mobile platforms and some databases on it, and voila. Instant trust by the humans. Similar sacrifices have been made before in war (Churchill and the town of Coventry come to mind,) in order to safeguard the final victory.

[Creston918]

DarthCaine wrote...

Legion: Geth do not lie. It is not installed in their programming

He sure comes damn close to lying when you ask him why he has a piece of N7 armor strapped to his chest.

[Sesshomaru47]

Creston918 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Legion: Geth do not lie. It is not installed in their programming

He sure comes damn close to lying when you ask him why he has a piece of N7 armor strapped to his chest.

No he didn't. He never answered you, he just became bashful. It was cute...for a Geth. Everyone go awww.

[Lmaoboat]

Creston918 wrote...

kanodin wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

Legion's an awesome team member, and since he immediately pops up on your little squad screen, we as gamers tend to take him for granted. "He's a team member, everything he says should be taken at face value."

But should it?

- Isn't it mightily convenient that there is suddenly a "heretic" Geth faction?
- Isn't it mightily convenient that Legion knows about this virus, and he and Shepard show up just in time to find the virus is complete (yet somehow not activated. Why, were the heretic Geth at lunch?), and it provides an instant solution to the "heretic" faction?
- Despite all Legions assurances that HIS Geth faction is peaceful and doesn't bother anyone as long as they aren't bothered in return, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary in ME1 and ME2. The freighter with the entire crew having been turned into husks as a warning, the Geth who want to crash the weapons freighter onto a colony, the Geth who shoot first, ask questions later on Haestus, etc.
- Legion stalks you to the point of creepiness, supposedly for a good reason. Yet he's a hardcore weapons platform, and a sniper to boot. Coincidence? If they really wanted to show their goodwill, a request to parlay sent to the Council would be a far more effective measure, as opposes to sending a single Geth soldier to chase a single human across the galaxy.

For the third bullet point all of those things were done by the Heretics, assuming their really are two factions.

Let's assume your correct and Legion is lying and their are no Heretics, what does he gain by lying. Deep infiltration into Shepards crew is one factor, though he never takes any opportunities to betray you on the Collector base. I had him as the tech specialist in the vent, he could have just left me trapped outside the door to get overwhelmed, for that matter he could have just headshotted you when you first meet him and his scope is on you, so stopping Shepard is not his goal.

Is his goal to gather data for the reapers? Unlikely considering he already seems aware of your conversation with Soveriegn and therefore a lot of other things, what else would they want to know about you?

Is his goal to rewrite whoever the Heretic Geth really were into whoever he really is? If so why even present the option of blowing them up and then let Shepard go through with it.

Any other possible motives I might have missed?

If his motive would be to simply kill you, then yes, he could have simply killed you. It's also possible that Legion is a Trojan Horse. Trust him implicitly, then when the right time comes around, he betrays you, and the Reapers win.

Stopping Shepard in the Collector base is possible, but it doesn't really gain them anything. Cerberus can always send someone else to blow the base up, especially since the Normandy has already done the hard work of destroying the Occuluses and the Collector ship.

Also, the Collectors are Harbinger's plan. Sovereign had a different plan. There may be another Reaper with yet another plan, and Legion is currently working for that Reaper.

Alternatively, Legion may just be trying to insinuate himself with you to gain a favorable voice in the coming Quarian - Geth conflict. The Geth aren't stupid. They're listening to broadcasts, they likely know that a small cluster of their own platforms was tested on and became active in the Migrant Fleet, they'd at least have an inkling that the Quarians are planning something.

I don't think there ever was a heretic faction. It's just a smokescreen put up to make Shepard and the rest of the organics feel good about the rest of the Geth. A convenient scapegoat to blame the atrocities of two years ago on. They sacrifice a small base in the middle of absolutely nowhere, with a few mobile platforms and some databases on it, and voila. Instant trust by the humans. Similar sacrifices have been made before in war (Churchill and the town of Coventry come to mind,) in order to safeguard the final victory.

It's a conspiracy.

[aaniadyen]

Creston918 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Legion: Geth do not lie. It is not installed in their programming

He sure comes damn close to lying when you ask him why he has a piece of N7 armor strapped to his chest.

There's a difference between lying and not understanding.

[glasgoo21]

I don't trust him.



Keep your friends close but your enemies even closer

[Creston918]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Legion: Geth do not lie. It is not installed in their programming

He sure comes damn close to lying when you ask him why he has a piece of N7 armor strapped to his chest.

No he didn't. He never answered you, he just became bashful. It was cute...for a Geth. Everyone go awww.

Make sure to still go Awww when he betrays you in ME3.

[Bigdoser]

I think legion is one of the most trust worthy of the squad.

[Creston918]

aaniadyen wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Legion: Geth do not lie. It is not installed in their programming

He sure comes damn close to lying when you ask him why he has a piece of N7 armor strapped to his chest.

There's a difference between lying and not understanding.

Oh, he knows damn well what you're getting at. He tries to beat around the bush first, then finally just gives you his little "Urrrrr..." answer.

[kanodin]

The idea of Legion infiltrating your crew to get organics on his side against the quarians is a decent motive, especially considering he was caught transmitting data about them after his and Tali's loyalty quests. Nor do I have any arguments against that as a possibility.



I still don't buy that a servant of the Reapers would pass up a chance to kill the one guy who managed to stop Sovereign and ruin their plans though, even if it is one separate from Harbinger.

[Vaenier]

Legion is no less trustworthy than any other person you meet. All you can judge him by are his actions.

He saved your life, and killed enemy Geth. He did not attack Quarians. He was investigating a Reaper for intel. He says he wants peace. He doesnt do anything to contradict these actions.

You are paranoid if you begin inventing these alternate possibilities without any direct evidence that something is wrong.

[TekFanX]

Well...I think the Geth can be trusted as by was I've seen of Legions Character-Design.



But I guess we will have to wait until ME3 to be sure.

[Sesshomaru47]

Creston918 wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Legion: Geth do not lie. It is not installed in their programming

He sure comes damn close to lying when you ask him why he has a piece of N7 armor strapped to his chest.

No he didn't. He never answered you, he just became bashful. It was cute...for a Geth. Everyone go awww.

Make sure to still go Awww when he betrays you in ME3.

Never!!!! He's my new super best friend.

I see no reason why he'd stab you in back. I mean I could have freaked out and killed him after he told me the Geth furture, but he trusted me with it and I didn't so I think we're good....maybe

[Lmaoboat]

I think Joker has been an Al-Qaeda sleeper agent all along, and is just waiting for the trigger word before he screams, "Allah Akbar!" and flies the Normandy into the Presidium. Prove me wrong!

[Vaenier]

Lmaoboat wrote...

I think Joker has been an Al-Qaeda sleeper agent all along, and is just waiting for the trigger word before he screams, "Allah Akbar!" and flies the Normandy into the Presidium. Prove me wrong!

My point exactly. Thank you for the example.

[aaniadyen]

Lmaoboat wrote...

I think Joker has been an Al-Qaeda sleeper agent all along, and is just waiting for the trigger word before he screams, "Allah Akbar!" and flies the Normandy into the Presidium. Prove me wrong!

That explains the 240 billion credits of eezo in the drive core.

[Creston918]

Vaenier wrote...

Legion is no less trustworthy than any other person you meet. All you can judge him by are his actions.
He saved your life, and killed enemy Geth. He did not attack Quarians. He was investigating a Reaper for intel. He says he wants peace. He doesnt do anything to contradict these actions.
You are paranoid if you begin inventing these alternate possibilities without any direct evidence that something is wrong.

The council doesn't have any direct evidence of the Reapers either.