165 réponses à ce sujet

[JThompson6577]

UnstableMongoose wrote...
snip

I just gotta say after eading your signature, I know there's rumors of a film being developed.  I think they should just skip a Mass Effect film and actually make Blasto.  Hell it'd be way better than the average Vin Diesel movie just to hear the Hanar say "Yippie Kaiyay, fornicator of maternal parents!"

[slicer477]

JThompson6577 wrote...

UnstableMongoose wrote...
snip

I just gotta say after eading your signature, I know there's rumors of a film being developed.  I think they should just skip a Mass Effect film and actually make Blasto.  Hell it'd be way better than the average Vin Diesel movie just to hear the Hanar say "Yippie Kaiyay, fornicator of maternal parents!"

I wonder who they'd get to play conrad verner.

[JThompson6577]

slicer477 wrote...

JThompson6577 wrote...

UnstableMongoose wrote...
snip

I just gotta say after eading your signature, I know there's rumors of a film being developed.  I think they should just skip a Mass Effect film and actually make Blasto.  Hell it'd be way better than the average Vin Diesel movie just to hear the Hanar say "Yippie Kaiyay, fornicator of maternal parents!"

I wonder who they'd get to play conrad verner.

How about that little blonde kid who was on the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer... I can't remember his name all I remember is he seemed to have a crush on Spike.

[slicer477]

JThompson6577 wrote...

slicer477 wrote...

JThompson6577 wrote...

UnstableMongoose wrote...
snip

I just gotta say after eading your signature, I know there's rumors of a film being developed.  I think they should just skip a Mass Effect film and actually make Blasto.  Hell it'd be way better than the average Vin Diesel movie just to hear the Hanar say "Yippie Kaiyay, fornicator of maternal parents!"

I wonder who they'd get to play conrad verner.

How about that little blonde kid who was on the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer... I can't remember his name all I remember is he seemed to have a crush on Spike.

I think sam worthington would be a good shepard, or a female shepard isn't ruled out.

[Zulu_DFA]

The question is: can a machine lie at all? Even a smart one?



It would probably be like

2+2=5... ^&#$%*@ Critical error. Shutting down the process. Reboot...



Humans can lie because false statements are not necessarily percieved as paradoxes. Organic "hardware" errors are common. Maybe AIs based on hardware architecture could learn how to lie. It's still very complex social act, though: little children can attempt lie, but can't really deceive their parents, because of lack of experience and practice.



Geth are pure math, and their sentience is based on the integral processing capacity of their networks. Of which Legion doesn't have much. When asked about the the N7 armor fragment it doesn't come up with any plausible reason, just states the fact "no data available" which is most probably true, since the data could be archived or deleted between the time Shepard finished asking the question and.Legion started to answer it.

[Geth Knight]

If the Geth ever did start to lie, it would be a huge leap in their evolution. But I think they would need a few steps before then. Probably have to learn concepts like "Mercy" and "Compassion". Not sure if the Geth have that.

[justregret]

Yeah, he also said Geth do not intentionally infiltrate, yet my Male Shep was...well... it has been very emotional for Shepard lately.

[Zulu_DFA]

Geth Knight wrote...

If the Geth ever did start to lie, it would be a huge leap in their evolution. But I think they would need a few steps before then. Probably have to learn concepts like "Mercy" and "Compassion". Not sure if the Geth have that.

Hardware errors. They understand that. In theory. Can't experience them.

[Nostradamoose]

Well, maybe legion isn't lying, but the heretics founds a way to...

I think legion says something along those lines during his mission.

[Geth Knight]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Geth Knight wrote...

If the Geth ever did start to lie, it would be a huge leap in their evolution. But I think they would need a few steps before then. Probably have to learn concepts like "Mercy" and "Compassion". Not sure if the Geth have that.

Hardware errors. They understand that. In theory. Can't experience them.

Thats what I mean. Obviously, they know of them. They are, however, unable to show it. They would probably have to beable to show compassion or mercy to beable to lie.

[Multifarious Algorithm]

Why couldn't the Geth lie? Lying is an extremely logical act, but is complicated for organic beings like us which are driven by convoluted interplays of systems beyond our control (emotions, generally).

Whereas for a machine, lying is simple once you have the conceptual framework: you desire a certain action from someone, so you give them inputs such that they accomplish that action. They might not even necessarily see it *as* lying - we lie to people for much the same reasons.

The only reason the Geth would not lie is because conceptually they might not understand it, since to a naive Geth you can't lie to someone because they can see your memories and know whether or not you are lying. But the Geth clearly understand that not everyone is like that (these two states actually represent social development steps in children), and so of course they'd be capable of it and understanding of it.

"No data" in regard to the N7 armor seems much more like it's supposed to reveal that the Geth are not strictly scrutable software anymore - that they're developing the machine-equivalent of emotions, in that they feel compelled to do things without fully comprehending why. Legion, and possibly the Geth as a whole "admire" Shepard perhaps. The same is true of the Quarian homeworld - Legion can't explain why the Geth are taking care of it, because they outright do not need to live there. But they do anyway.

Modifié par Multifarious Algorithm, 25 février 2010 - 03:30 .

[slicer477]

There's definitely something Legion isn't telling us, I suspect we will find out in ME3 (If he survived).



He seems to know us somehow, I suspect it's Kaiden or Ashley's mind in a geth. I say this because Legion seems so surprised to see us on the derelict reaper +N7 armor.

[Lightice_av]

There's definitely something Legion isn't telling us, I suspect we will find out in ME3 (If he survived).

Whether or not Legion survives, the geth are still around, and they know (almost) everything that Legion knows, minus the events beyond the Omega-4 Relay. Legion is ofcourse speaking from the geth point of view. I'm quite sure that many of its opinions could be questioned by someone with an alternate perspective. Legion is also obviously not telling anything that could harm the geth cause, but I don't think that it lies about the cause itself. The Reapers are everybody's enemies, and outright lying about significant matters like that would have far too great chances for reprecussions that the geth are unlikely willing to risk.



The Reapers are incidentally the reason why I believe Legion's explanation about the Heretics completely. The Reapers can't tolerate free will in their followers. They can't accept the idea that somebody on their side could even have the possibility to change their mind about them. As soon as they receive an ally, they make sure that the ally can never betray them; in short, they Indoctrinate them immediately. While the geth may be immune to the traditional Indoctrination used against the organic species, they are quite vulnerable to other types of manipulation, one that we personally witnessed during ME2. I'm quite sure that the virus came from Sovereign, and it used it to ensure that the Heretics remain loyal, no matter what. The Reaper modus operandi doesn't allow servants who only obey because they're promised something in return. And that's why all of the geth can't have been under Sovereign's control; if they had, they would still be working for the Reaper cause.

[BlackFox26]

How legion will play out in mass effect 3 i believe will be the most complicated and *surprising* because they set him up as a geth, bad, but he says there different kind of geth.. and evolve, and they're actually nice.

He could be lying, but he's helping us now... so.. dont know.

cant wait to see how it plays out

[Computron2000]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The question is: can a machine lie at all? Even a smart one?

Yes, its already found in the game. The Geth lied to the organics on the goddess constellation.

If the story was not true, then Legion was lying.

either way the Geth can lie

[Zulu_DFA]

Computron2000 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The question is: can a machine lie at all? Even a smart one?

Yes, its already found in the game. The Geth lied to the organics on the goddess constellation.

If the story was not true, then Legion was lying.

either way the Geth can lie

Point taken.