186 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Atlia]

Miranda is one of the best team members strictly from a game play stance. Her character I found to be rather boring and cliche, also she deserted the Illusive Man rather quickly for someone who's catch phrase is "Loyalist." Add to that the fact that I'm not a fan of Australian accents (it was however better than the jabberwock that came out of Leliana's mouth) and she ranks very low in my top 10.

[ToshiStation38]

IoCaster wrote...

She's a toxic asset. My canon Shep is all about the mission. He doesn't fraternize, no romance and totally focused on getting the job done. Miranda is a constant irritant in that she believes that she is fully capable of stepping into my role when it's clear that she isn't.

Your Shepard sounds like a very boring man.

[Markinator_123]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Volourn wrote...

btw, Having a bad childhood doesn't excuse commitinjg evil deeds. Like a character on one of my fave tv shows said recently,"Pretty much everyone in prison has some sort of woe as me childhood tale."

Because going to work for an evil terrorist organization is totally doing something good with your life, am i rite?

Cerberus has a great way of telling people they have what is best for humanity. As you can see by the people on Normandy SR-2, most of the people just want to see humanity prosper. Miranda doesn't believe that she is working for a terrorist organization and joined to help better humanity and get away from her father. Besides, every cell is independent from another. Miranda worked in a cell that was devoted to bringing Shepard back to life.

Jack, on the other hand, is completely unstable and enjoys inflicting pain on other people. I understand that she had a tragic childhood but still doesn't excuse her actions. Being evil for sake of making yourself feel better does not help anybody else.

[jojon2se]

Either way, the two characters share a pretty much identical fundamental starting point, but their respective life experiences, that have shaped them, are just about diametrical opposites. It makes sense that they each are the way they are and that they'd be at odds with each other AND... there is little doubt in my mind that they were written with this specifically in mind. Man, the writers are playing us like so many kazoos.
EDIT: Fixed a plural.

Modifié par jojon2se, 24 février 2010 - 08:04 .

[JamieCOTC]

I'm not in the "hate Miranda" camp, but more in the "respect her abilities and keep her at a safe distance" camp. Miranda is a lying ****, (give the Quarian over to Cerberus and find out for yourself), but only because she has been "indoctrinated" by TIM. He is her surrogate father and she is most definitely "daddy's little girl." Take her to the collector ship and when the "trap" is sprung, she is genuinely shocked that TIM would betray her. However, my biggest problem w/ Miranda is that even after you do her "loyalty" mission, she doesn't really become loyal. She gains respect for Shepard, but is still loyal to TIM and Cerberus. Only at the end, at the collector base, does she finally come around. It will be interesting to see in ME3 if she goes back to Cerberus loyalty or finally realizes she was being used by TIM and that his saving humanity biz was just a bill of goods.



In fact, I wonder if all the Cerberus loyalists will realize this, Jacob, Kelly, even the cook and if Shep will have the opportunity to say, "I told you so."

[IoCaster]

Darht Jayder wrote... 

I can kind of see your point here.....but there is no military chain of command....they all work for Cerberus...including Shepard.

"The IM told us that you're in charge/command"

There is a chain of command and it doesn't have to be a military setting to exist. Do you work for a living?

[tonnactus]

[quote]Darht Jayder wrote...

[quote]tonnactu
In real life...not everyone acts appropriately all the time.  It makes sense that these two would but heads and not maintain professionalism sometimes.  If Miranda responded in a  perfectly level headed manner it would make her seem less human.[/quote]
This happened immediatly after her loaylity mission....
This action doesnt make her human,it made her stupid.

[IoCaster]

ToshiStation38 wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

She's a toxic asset. My canon Shep is all about the mission. He doesn't fraternize, no romance and totally focused on getting the job done. Miranda is a constant irritant in that she believes that she is fully capable of stepping into my role when it's clear that she isn't.

Your Shepard sounds like a very boring man.

It's called role playing.

[Ieldra]

TronJavolta wrote...
Is there a lack of empathy here?

Being an avid poster in the Miranda thread (to which you are herewith invited ), I can assert that most of us do empathize with Miranda, while at the same time admiring her ability to - slowly - come to terms with herself. I understand you don't want to read the long Miranda threads, but you should the OP there at least. 

Am I wrong to operate on the assumption that people who play smart games like ME are also smart people?

That's an assumption I would bet against. The most you can hope for is more smart people than somewhere else. Which may or may not be all that many - I wouldn't dare rate the ME2 players demographic without quite a lot more data.
 

Am  I the only one who sympathized with Miranda in this way?   (That Miri love thread is too long for me to sift through to find the answer....)

No, of course you are not. But that alone is not what makes her interesting. I don't want to quote the wall of text that has been written about this here, but while she does have some problems, she's also not one to be pitied. I don't know what makes people hate her. Perhaps they never give her a chance after the conversation with her before going to Freedom's Progress. Perhaps these people don't like characters who won't fall right into their laps with friendship and romance. All in all, I don't care. There are enough reasons for finding her utterly fascination, beyond the obvious but also including it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 février 2010 - 08:20 .

[Jeremy Winston]

IoCaster wrote...

ToshiStation38 wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

She's a toxic asset. My canon Shep is all about the mission. He doesn't fraternize, no romance and totally focused on getting the job done. Miranda is a constant irritant in that she believes that she is fully capable of stepping into my role when it's clear that she isn't.

Your Shepard sounds like a very boring man.

It's called role playing.

It's called role playing when you keep in mind that your Shepard doesn't like Miranda.

This thread is discussing reasons why the player likes or dislikes Miranda.  I can role play my character to like or dislike anyone.  That isn't the point.

[bfawcet]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

F*** no. I am not smart and I play "smart" games. I am a university drop out and I smoke approximately two blunts everyday.

YES! and for my input she is best romance, best squadmate, but I do wish they would have developed her past a little bit more, besides the whole, I was genetically modified thing.

[tonnactus]

IoCaster wrote...

She's a toxic asset. My canon Shep is all about the mission. He doesn't fraternize, no romance and totally focused on getting the job done. Miranda is a constant irritant in that she believes that she is fully capable of stepping into my role when it's clear that she isn't. 

"The IM told us that you're in command" - OK

"Shepard you take point." - STFU, that's my decision to make.

"Take the Quarian and call for pickup" - STFU, that's my decision to make.

"Jack, I'm second in command to Shepard..." - STFU, that's my decision to make.

"Shepard I'm impressed, you really seem to know what you're doing." - STFU, I took out the Thorian, Saren, Sovereign, saved/killed off the Rachni, destroyed the base on Virmire, killed off a crapload of Geth, Mercs and Cerberus goons and much more. What the hell have you done that would compare favorably to any of that?

"The Illusive Man wouldn't intentionally send us into a trap." - STFU, you're wrong and that's exactly what he did do.

"I'll lead the second team..." STFU, that's my decision to make.

"I could do it. Any biotic could." - STFU, you're absolutely wrong again and I'm sick of the constant interference.

"Well we've done good so far. EDI what's our next move?" - STFU!!!!

And so on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. I don't know if it was an intentional attempt by the Bioware writers to alienate some people or just a basic misunderstanding of military discipline and chain of command. The end result for me was that I didn't want her on my team. I went to great lengths to kill her off and dead she'll remain on any of my ME3 imports. On a character or personal level I didn't care to talk to her and generally skip her loyalty mission. Good riddance to bad character.

You forgot that she said that you were not authorised to give Subject Zero acess to her data.

[Bartlebyfinch]

I don't hate Miranda.



Personally, I don't really find her to be evil. She has bought into TIM's B.S., but so have a lot of people. She is more of a "true believer" than Jacob, but Cerberus has done more for her personally than it has for Jacob. I find her superiority complex and blatant lying to be a huge turn-off in the early game, but not any more than Jack's psychosis. Like Jack, Miranda is a redemption story. It takes her longer than Jack to come around, but I think her redemption is more complete than Jack's. Her loyalty mission was one of my favorites.



I don't really think that Miranda suffers from player hatred so much as the fact that she just isn't as colorful as some of the other characters and is overshadowed by them.



From a tactical point of view, she is probably the best all-around teammate in the game. She can debuff both biotics and tech, and her specialty power is the only one in the game that directly buffs the rest of the team. Granted, if you're looking for a high damage-dealer or a specialist, she isn't optimal, but her all-around usefulness is second to none.

[Volourn]

"Because going to work for an evil terrorist organization is totally doing something good with your life, am i rite?"



Point of view. Miranda certainly doesn't, at first, see Cerberus as evil. In fact, she getsb disgusted more and more as the game goes on. It's called character growth.





"The IM told us that you're in charge/command"



There is a chain of command and it doesn't have to be a military setting to exist. Do you work for a living?"



Not military. Besides, it's quite obvious that miranda is loyal to TIM and she takes her true orders from him. Why do you think she has her own office and bedroom on the ship? Heck, I bet she has a private line to TIM as well. Also, she was placed second in command by TIM who makes this clear to Shep. All the other peons see her as that. And, btw, it's often the hjob of the second in command to pipe up and not take orders blindly. Ever see ST (any of them)? The Second In Command always gives their opinions, and thought but in the end always goes with what the captain tells them to. Which, btw, is EXACTLY what Miranda does. I don't recall her ever disobeying a direct order from Shepard even if she completely disagreed with it. *shrug*

[Nozybidaj]

Volourn wrote...

"Because going to work for an evil terrorist organization is totally doing something good with your life, am i rite?"

Point of view. Miranda certainly doesn't, at first, see Cerberus as evil. In fact, she getsb disgusted more and more as the game goes on. It's called character growth.

Point of view?  Really?  Is her last name Skywalker and we will see her in a full body black outfit next game complete with black breather helmet and flowing black cape?

Also, at what points in the game does she exhibit this growing disgust, or even slight apprehension about being totally devoted to Cerberus prior to blowing up the base?

[Volourn]

People have given more than a few examples in this threa and others. If you are gonna conviently ignore their examples, you aren't gonna accept any others. That's okay, to each their own even if it is delusion.

[Nozybidaj]

Volourn wrote...

People have given more than a few examples in this threa and others. If you are gonna conviently ignore their examples, you aren't gonna accept any others. That's okay, to each their own even if it is delusion.

What examples?  I played a full paragon run through with Miranda in my squad from begining to end and was pretty surprised at the end when she decided to resign.  I'm simply asking where all these "examples" are of her changing attitude throughout the game, I must have missed them.

[Jeremy Winston]

There's another possibility. She's pro-Cerberus, but she might be even more pro-Shepard. After all, Shepard gets stuff done.



It's too bad that Miranda still resigns even if non-loyal. Of course, she dies, but first she resigns. It would have been better if a non-loyal Miranda did try to follow TIM's orders.

[marshalleck]

I like Miranda because she provokes populist outrage in people.



"Think you're better than me? I'll tear off your face and mutilate your corpse, you ****!"



People's reactions to her really are quite revealing.

[IoCaster]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

ToshiStation38 wrote...



Your Shepard sounds like a very boring man.

It's called role playing.

It's called role playing when you keep in mind that your Shepard doesn't like Miranda.

This thread is discussing reasons why the player likes or dislikes Miranda.  I can role play my character to like or dislike anyone.  That isn't the point.

I'm not sure what exactly you are referring to, but I was simply responding to the quoted text. It's the way that I  role play my canon Shep. The statement above mine had nothing to do with Miranda. I listed my reason for disliking Miranda already.  

[Nozybidaj]

I still think most of this "hate" is imagined by Miranda fans. Even just skimming back through this thread most people were either "yeah I like her", "she was useful for her combat skills", or "didn't care one way or the other" with a few "just don't like the archetype in general" and even less "she sucks".



In fact I would say she is one of the least "hated" characters overall.

[Jeremy Winston]

IoCaster wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

ToshiStation38 wrote...



Your Shepard sounds like a very boring man.

It's called role playing.

It's called role playing when you keep in mind that your Shepard doesn't like Miranda.

This thread is discussing reasons why the player likes or dislikes Miranda.  I can role play my character to like or dislike anyone.  That isn't the point.

I'm not sure what exactly you are referring to, but I was simply responding to the quoted text. It's the way that I  role play my canon Shep. The statement above mine had nothing to do with Miranda. I listed my reason for disliking Miranda already.  

I apologize if I misunderstood.

You stated your reasons for disliking Miranda by providing a series of quotes and actions that you did not like.  In turn you quoted what you, as Shepard didn't like about it.  Someone said that your Shepard was boring and you responded.

My impression from the exchange was that you role played a Shepard to not like Miranda for those reasons.  If you also don't like Miranda for those same reasons, then, perhaps you role played Shepard as your own personality.

[JamieCOTC]

Even though I don't hate  Miranda, I confess it felt good when she said, "I don't have what you have," when she clearly thought she did.