86 réponses à ce sujet

[ModerateOsprey]

All works of fiction be it a book, movie, play or video game have a framework or world in which the plot is constructed. It is assumed that there has to be some suspension of belief in certain elements, especially in works of fantasy or science fiction. IMO, one of the marks of quality is how believable and consistent that framework is.



For example, in LOTR, we are asked to believe in the existence of elves, dwarves, orcs, etc. Well and good. The plot says that wearing the ring is dangerous and through the book it is. Everything works within the parameters of the world that Tolkien created - mostly



I think the point of the OP was that PC becomes a Gray Warden. So what's so special about that then? The plot then goes to quite some lengths to get you all scared of how downright dangerous darkspawn are, even tasting the blood can kill you. You go through a ritual so that your are protected, so far so good. But suddenly you start collecting folk to help you out and they don't have any problems with this. Why? There is no explanation given. It just is. So like the OP, I asked what now makes a Gray Warden special? Have I been sold a pup?



This has not really distracted from my enjoyment of the game. Like has been pointed out - its a computer game. I enjoy so much of the rest of it, I will forgive that and use my own imagination to fill in the gaps. DAO is a fantastic game on so many levels, but why this ommision? - we can only speculate.

[soft sugary thing]

@Kioux - Could be Zevran didn't know what he was drinking at the time, he was just told to drink the stuff. In fact, he still doesn't know. And maybe it doesn't give him total immunity, it just means he dies slower than he would otherwise.

Good point about pure darkspawn blood being nothing but poison. I'm so glad Bioware decided to ignore that part. If it was just me and Alistair running around and nothing but charred rabbit to eat every night, I'd kill myself if I didn't die from malnutrition first. (I can't cook, I'm a noble, there were elves who did that for me. Can I haz elf servant plz? Alistair is not an elf.)

@Myusha - Come to think of it, I turned off gore effects in my game. There's no plot hole in my story because no one ever gets blood on them! O_O

...but seriously, it would be nice to have some answers.

Modifié par Tierce Cousland, 24 février 2010 - 10:54 .

[Mlai00]

Hmm, come to think of it, I was actually concerned for my Dog during the Ostagar part of the story, when I learned how poisonous darkspawn are. I was definitely expecting some poignant pet-death cutscene in the spirit of Fallout.

But then as Dog mauled Genlock after Genlock, and kept wagging its stubby tail, I kind of just stopped thinking about it...

Yeah, this game definitely needs a medicine-fetching sidequest. Or a patch that modifies the Andraste's Ashes chapter.

[Destrier77]

Tierce Cousland wrote...

Come to think of it, I turned off gore effects in my game. There's no plot hole in my story because no one ever gets blood on them! O_O

...but seriously, it would be nice to have some answers.

Hope this helps.

I havent played the dalish origins part of the quest but my understanding is that the taint isnt quite as dangerous as you are all thinking.

Its not like zombie blood where one drop makes you a mentalist screaming looney.

You have to ingest a lot or you have to have a lot put into your bloodstream.

Now grey wardens regularly go into the deeps to fight the darkspawn they are made to spend their lives doing it. So they will build up a high amount of darkspawn blood eventually either through wounds or through ingestion. The thingy they go through drinking it stops this danger totally.

Its not necessary for people fighting darkspawn irregularly because they dont build up enough blood ingestion to get the taint.

If it was as horrifyingly powerful as some of you think than you would NEVER get an army together to fight it. One drop of blood changes you? The army of men and elves would stand no chance...

Thats what my imagination told me n it fits perfectly no?

One thing i always found it hard to "get" coming from a background of tolkien and D & D is how elves are pretty much normal in this world, ie they can become werewolves and can be tainted. But i love how they have normalised them into robin hood types instead of god men.

Im impressed with ferelden and the wider world (forgot its name)

Modifié par Destrier77, 24 février 2010 - 12:31 .

[Tekbear]

i had the same problem from the very beginning. i was always waiting for the part of the story where we have to turn our companions into grey wardens and when riordan (was that his name) finally showed up of all the people in the world the only one we can turn into a warden is loghain?! that was actually a bit of a slap in the face.



there is some other strange parts as well - for example we are never really told what happened to maric. he just disappeared - end of story?!



to me it actually seems like they had the joining the grey wardens part in but took it out again to make it the main feature of awakenings.



maybe we see the same thing happen with maric and he will reappear in an expansion after awakenings...

[PSRdirector]

they special?

[Gesamyn]

I don't think of the companions as 'immune' per se.  I treat it as a combination of dramatic license, ie they don't get enough blood in them even though probability would suggest that they should.  This is the 'main characters defense' This is like the movie Aliens where the alien blood is corrosive.  Given the amount of close quarters automatic weapons fire and explosions, the main characters should have been splashed more but they didn't - hey! they're main characters.

Second, the Taint may be more like a disease.  Some people are more susceptible and some are more resistant.  When there's a pandemic, health care workers routinely see dozens if not hundreds of infected but not all of them get the disease.  Pandemics can be pretty virulent too.  The Spanish flu of 1918 killed an estimated 50 million.

As for criticizing Bioware.  It's a hole but not a critical one that confuses the main plot in any way.  In any regard, I forgive them given they put together such a wonderfully great epilogue.  Not every game does that - even among RPGs.  My major head scratchers were: what were the darkspawn army doing while I was trapsing back and forth across Fereldin time and again?  Where are the horses? But such are the limitations of the game play.  Not critical though.

[bzombo]

i understand where everyone's coming from. i've wondered about the darkspawn taint in non-wardens, but i had assumed the amount of blood needed to ingest is high enough to not matter in the game. that aside, it is probably just a game mechanic to keep things moving.

[Jaulen]

I thought the 'specialness' of the grey wardens came down to 1) being resistant to the taint 2) ability to sense darkspawn 3) tell if it's just a darkspawn horde or a true blight



But I did also wonder why companions didn't get infected with all the blood they were exposed to.



And even after doing the DE origin, I still don't quite get it.

[LyonVanguard]

How about.



"its a video game"



and leave it at that?

[dbfandillyjam]

Or maybe they have strong immune systems.

[Time Spiral]

Come to think of it ... You guys got me thinking about a major plot point.

What I'm about to say fits with this discussion quite well, but it is a spoiler. If you guys think it should be moved to SPOILERS, I'll move it. But, this thread is rich with spoilers already, so ...

**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
You guys made me think of something ... I originally posted it here, but have moved it to the SPOILERS forum. I don't want to ruin anyone's experience: http://social.biowar.../index/1409944
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**
**SPOILER** **SPOILER**

Modifié par Time Spiral, 24 février 2010 - 05:57 .

[Red Frostraven]

The CLOSEST.



But that makes no sense either, because what about morrigan?

[Urik187]

Realmzmaster wrote...

An interesting question. I will speculate a little. Wynne is a vessel of the spirit. The spirit protects her from death. Shale is a golem, no blood to infect. Oghren is a dwarf who has been figting darkspawn most of his life. Dwarfs have developed a tolerance for the blood and can only change by eating the flesh.
Dog was sick from the blood, but the medicine helped dog recover. Dog has developed an immunity to the blood.
Morrigan is a witch of the wilds. Maybe her magical nature provides some protection (do not know).
Lelianna is protected by the Maker?
Zervan (a mystery)
Just some thoughts.

FYI a lot of spoilers here dude

[Edge12674]

Perhaps, the taint not only spreads biologically, but spiritually as well. A Grey Warden, by nature of the "joining" provides at least partial immunity to those around him/her. This could explain why King Cailen was so happy Duncan was with them at Ostegar. It also explains why other party members are willing to travel with a Warden.



This "projected immunity" would also seem to apply only to humans and hounds, as none of the other races seem too worried about the taint. Notice how the blight seems to cause panic among humans, but the other races seem bound to fight the blight due to treaty rather than fear of immediate extinction?

Since Fereldan is inhabited primarily by humans this gives the Wardens more status abroad, but as soon as you enter Dwarf or Elf communities your fighting skill becomes the trait by which you are judged.

[ModerateOsprey]

Edge12674 wrote...

Perhaps, the taint not only spreads biologically, but spiritually as well. A Grey Warden, by nature of the "joining" provides at least partial immunity to those around him/her. This could explain why King Cailen was so happy Duncan was with them at Ostegar. It also explains why other party members are willing to travel with a Warden.

This "projected immunity" would also seem to apply only to humans and hounds, as none of the other races seem too worried about the taint. Notice how the blight seems to cause panic among humans, but the other races seem bound to fight the blight due to treaty rather than fear of immediate extinction?
Since Fereldan is inhabited primarily by humans this gives the Wardens more status abroad, but as soon as you enter Dwarf or Elf communities your fighting skill becomes the trait by which you are judged.

I quite like this way of looking at it and would have been very easy for this to be included as a couple of lines of dialogue or even as an extra incentive for someone to join you to help with the fight.

However, it is still difficult to ignore that this important plot element is not ever really referred to after the start.  

[LyonVanguard]

I find it funny that you guys are trying to figure this out.

Its just a video game. Its not all going to be realistic or make sense.

Leave it at that.

[ModerateOsprey]

LyonVanguard wrote...

I find it funny that you guys are trying to figure this out.
Its just a video game. Its not all going to be realistic or make sense.
Leave it at that.

Minesweeper is just a  video game. Lord of the Rings is just a book. How about we get rid of English Literature as an academic subject as well?

[Vralenalien]

If you want little more insight about the whole darkspawn thing and the taint I recommend reading Stolen Throne and The Calling. Specially The Calling is informative. It gives atleast one possible way to avoid getting tainted, but as far as I know we don't use that method in the game.



But mostly you can say that your companions are just lucky when they don't get tainted.



<<minor spoiler for those who hasn't played dalish origin>>>



And personally I don't want any quest line ever where I need to go after some cure for the taint. Since only known cure for it is Joining. If you get tainted then you either die, turn in to ghoul or if you are lucky to survive joining and become warden and even that really isn't cure. It just gives you time before you die. Getting some herb or such to cure tainted companion would be really stupid.



<<spoiler end>>

[karma_killer09]

this might have been said already but as far as dog goes, i'd say it's along the lines of their are alot of our illnesses that cant be transfered to dogs no matter how contagious it is, so i'd say it's just another disease that a dog wont catch.....just an idea

[Sloth Of Doom]

karma_killer09 wrote...

this might have been said already but as far as dog goes, i'd say it's along the lines of their are alot of our illnesses that cant be transfered to dogs no matter how contagious it is, so i'd say it's just another disease that a dog wont catch.....just an idea

Except when you meet Dog he is sick from ingesting Darkspawn bood, so um....no?

[Mordaedil]

LyonVanguard wrote...

I find it funny that you guys are trying to figure this out.
Its just a video game. Its not all going to be realistic or make sense.
Leave it at that.

But this is Bioware's own original Intellectual Property that THEY wrote and implemented, and if they are not going to bother explaining WHY these plot holes exist, I wonder what purpose they served in the first place.

They could easily have made Darkspawn blood not dangerous to people in the codex entries, but the fact is that it remains and it's just seemingly untrue.

Their own lore, that they provide within their OWN creation isn't matching up. That's NOT about realism or "making sense". That is continuity.

[ModerateOsprey]

Mordaedil wrote...

LyonVanguard wrote...

I find it funny that you guys are trying to figure this out.
Its just a video game. Its not all going to be realistic or make sense.
Leave it at that.

But this is Bioware's own original Intellectual Property that THEY wrote and implemented, and if they are not going to bother explaining WHY these plot holes exist, I wonder what purpose they served in the first place.

They could easily have made Darkspawn blood not dangerous to people in the codex entries, but the fact is that it remains and it's just seemingly untrue.

Their own lore, that they provide within their OWN creation isn't matching up. That's NOT about realism or "making sense". That is continuity.

Put over far better than I did. The comment just irritated me

[Sloth Of Doom]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

LyonVanguard wrote...

I find it funny that you guys are trying to figure this out.
Its just a video game. Its not all going to be realistic or make sense.
Leave it at that.

But this is Bioware's own original Intellectual Property that THEY wrote and implemented, and if they are not going to bother explaining WHY these plot holes exist, I wonder what purpose they served in the first place.

They could easily have made Darkspawn blood not dangerous to people in the codex entries, but the fact is that it remains and it's just seemingly untrue.

Their own lore, that they provide within their OWN creation isn't matching up. That's NOT about realism or "making sense". That is continuity.

Put over far better than I did. The comment just irritated me

I had to refrain from replying when I first saw it, since I have a habit or saying things bluntly and making people cry.    I find it both amusing and sad that people are too ignorant to understand a simple concept, but still feel the need to "contribute" to the discussion while missing the point entirely.

[bzombo]

hmmm....it would be cool to hear from someone at bioware what they think about this or why it was done as it was. i still say it's just a game mechanic. the calling explains a lot about the taint.

**spoiler**

the calling seems to state that being bitten by the darkspawn is a much more likely way to get corrupted other than the obvious of drinking the blood. that's why maric was given the temporary protection. i would think a trace amount from splatter may either not be enough or would just take a while to corrupt the body. when gaider discusses maric's exposure to being affected by the taint if attacked by darkspawn, i don't believe trace amounts in the mouth during a fight was one of the main concerns expressed, but i could be wrong.