39 réponses à ce sujet

[FlashAK]

http://www.xbox360di...-2-class-guide/

Thoroughly breaks down every class.  Recommendations geared toward Hardcore/Insanity for Squadmates, Advanced Weapon Training and class Builds.  Enjoy.

[VirtualAlex]

Not sure I approve of you knocking on engineers...



Also Grunt and Garrus aren't the best squadmates for an adept. They have no ability to help you create combos.

[Arde5643]

Nice stuffs, but a lot of actual in-depth informative stuffs are missing - good for beginners though, not so much for advanced or veteran players.

[baller7345]

I think you underestimate abilities like pull, throw, and cryo blast (really a 0) but overall its a good guide. Intrigued by how how shockwave was for the vanguard I think you may be the first person to actually find a use for it.

[RamsenC]

Why would you get squad ammo on Shepard when a bunch of different squad mates can do that for you?

Reave also makes no sense on soldier. Outside of very early in the game I wouldn't use any bonus power on soldier. Not a fan of Reave on Vanguard either. Overall not terrible, but none of the classes are set up optimally imo.

edit: Adept actually looks good.

Modifié par RamsenC, 23 février 2010 - 10:55 .

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

Don't have time to read it all, but I see quite a few recomendations I would take issue with. Nothing that is blatently wrong, just some choices that are debateable....

[FoFoZem]

I didn't like this guide. Far too opinionated to be of any real and generic use.

[FlashAK]

@ VirtualAlex: I will admit that I was a bit harsh against the Engineers because their class power is lame, but this is a personal opinion. They are almost as good as Sentinel's for stripping away defenses, which makes them great for harder difficulties. They just seem incredibly boring to play with (again personal opinion and also preference for play style)
I like Garrus for Adept because of the Sniper for range, Overload for synthetics/shields & AP Ammo to tear through armor/organics. Grunt because he's the heavy hitter/tank. With good cooldowns, you can do all the combos on your own.

@ Arde5643: This guide was meant for people tackling Hardcore/Insanity for the first time. Most people who have already finished an Insanity playthrough have a general idea of how to approach it.

@ Baller7345: For insanity, you can't pull/throw/cryo blast until their defense is taken down first. When you pull someone out of cover for instance, they only have health left so a few shots will kill them anyways.

@ RamsenC: You're right, you can get someone else for squad ammo. However, Jack, who has Warp ammo (the ammo type I found most useful), was one of the squad mates I never found a use for bringing along with me. She's not a tank, so getting close with her shotgun will get her killed more times than not.
Reave is the next closest thing to Warp.  I found Warp to be the single most useful ability to have for an Insanity run.

@ Br0th3rGr1mm: Everybody plays the game differently, that's what's so great about ME2. In the end, no choices are essentially wrong, just someone else's preference. I thought Cryo Blast wasn't completely useless on Insanity. It may be someone else's favorite ability.

Modifié par Herbn, 23 février 2010 - 11:18 .

[rabbitchannel]

FoFoZem wrote...

I didn't like this guide. Far too opinionated to be of any real and generic use.

Agreed. Also, the writer routinely underestimates other squad members, powers, and different methods of playing a class. 

[DirewolfX]

Ditto that. Guide is bad.



1. Miranda is not the most useful squadmate. She's a jack of all trades. By the time you're on insanity, you should know what's coming and pick squad mates who are more specialized for the mission. (*exception: she's great on Garrus's mission, because of all the different types of enemies you face)



2. Adept is better with squad mates who give them more biotic umph (pull and warp) to do more detonates (and overload people on shield maps). Not sure Grunt is so great for them, because they can lock people down with singularity instead of using a tank.



3. Saying a class is boring makes for a bad guide. Engineers are great; maybe you don't know how to play them (and thus, shouldn't be writing a guide). Also, you fail by not picking up cryoblast, which is a bread and butter skill for engineers.



4. Infiltrator guide is actually decent.



5. Sentinel neglects cryo blast again... sigh.



6. Wow, fail at soldier. Heightened does more damage...



7. Shockwave for Vanguard? Uh what? That's skill is awful and a huge waste of cooldown you could be spending charging.

[RamsenC]

Barriers are not scary enough to warrant getting Reave, especially on classes that tear enemies up like soldier and vanguard. You also have Warp all the time if you bring Miranda along. Warp ammo is also not necessary, getting Garrus for squad AP ammo or Grunt for squad inferno ammo are better choices.



I can see warp ammo being useful on infiltrator since snipers already do so much damage to armor, but thats about it. Also squad cryo ammo is another useful option you don't mention. You can give your squad cryo then switch to something more damaging. I would recommend this on every class you can do it on.

[baller7345]

Herbn wrote...

@ Baller7345: For insanity, you can't pull/throw/cryo blast until their defense is taken down first. When you pull someone out of cover for instance, they only have health left so a few shots will kill them anyways.
.

I'm well aware of that but a 0 is a bit much IMO.  I use cryo all the time on insanity because it stops stuff from shooting at me same with pull.  Not saying they should be 10's but I think they are a little low.   The rest of the guide was fine for me.

EDIT:
Reread the guide and realized I was stupid in how I interpretted the guide.  I was looking at the numbers as a rating system and for some reason didn't see that they were your builds. 

Modifié par baller7345, 23 février 2010 - 11:41 .

[RamsenC]

DirewolfX wrote...

Ditto that. Guide is bad.

1. Miranda is not the most useful squadmate. She's a jack of all trades. By the time you're on insanity, you should know what's coming and pick squad mates who are more specialized for the mission. (*exception: she's great on Garrus's mission, because of all the different types of enemies you face)

2. Adept is better with squad mates who give them more biotic umph (pull and warp) to do more detonates (and overload people on shield maps). Not sure Grunt is so great for them, because they can lock people down with singularity instead of using a tank.

3. Saying a class is boring makes for a bad guide. Engineers are great; maybe you don't know how to play them (and thus, shouldn't be writing a guide). Also, you fail by not picking up cryoblast, which is a bread and butter skill for engineers.

4. Infiltrator guide is actually decent.

5. Sentinel neglects cryo blast again... sigh.

6. Wow, fail at soldier. Heightened does more damage...

7. Shockwave for Vanguard? Uh what? That's skill is awful and a huge waste of cooldown you could be spending charging.

Sentinel does not need Cryo Blast with throw around. Throw has a faster cooldown and gives the 100% damage bonus on ragdolled enemies. Hardened AR actually does more damage during its duration with everything except the widow and mantis. I agree about shockwave though.

[sinosleep]

I really don't get the huge misconception that so many people have in this game about abilities that affect health. People often say once you get them down to health a few more shots will kill them, guess how many shots it took to get them down to health in the 1st place? The same amount more often than not. Devs have repeatedly shot down the notion that most enemies have more defenses than health. The only ones that do are elite mobs that have more than one type of defense or mobs with no health bar at all like scions.

[rabbitchannel]

RamsenC wrote...

DirewolfX wrote...

Ditto that. Guide is bad.

1. Miranda is not the most useful squadmate. She's a jack of all trades. By the time you're on insanity, you should know what's coming and pick squad mates who are more specialized for the mission. (*exception: she's great on Garrus's mission, because of all the different types of enemies you face)

2. Adept is better with squad mates who give them more biotic umph (pull and warp) to do more detonates (and overload people on shield maps). Not sure Grunt is so great for them, because they can lock people down with singularity instead of using a tank.

3. Saying a class is boring makes for a bad guide. Engineers are great; maybe you don't know how to play them (and thus, shouldn't be writing a guide). Also, you fail by not picking up cryoblast, which is a bread and butter skill for engineers.

4. Infiltrator guide is actually decent.

5. Sentinel neglects cryo blast again... sigh.

6. Wow, fail at soldier. Heightened does more damage...

7. Shockwave for Vanguard? Uh what? That's skill is awful and a huge waste of cooldown you could be spending charging.

Sentinel does not need Cryo Blast with throw around. Throw has a faster cooldown and gives the 100% damage bonus on ragdolled enemies. Hardened AR actually does more damage during its duration with everything except the widow and mantis. I agree about shockwave though.

Perhaps the Sentinel needs Cryo Blast, perhaps not. The point is that the guide should not deal in absolutes in the sense that, "this team member is the best for this class. this skill is the best. max it." but rather take a holistic approach and examine the strengths and weaknesses of each power/team member. For example, different members for different types of enemies, the benefit of choosing a specific power over a another, selecting a bonus power that will enable you to play more aggressively or more defensively. A guide should inform and present different options to the player instead of shunting him down one path.

[Average Gatsby]

Pretty much everything said in that post with reguards to Adepts, Sentinels, and Engineers I haven't found to be accurate.

No points in cryo blast for an engineer. That is a severe liability on the reaper IFF. And why would you even be spamming Incinerate when you have Reave maxed out, because they do roughly equivalent damage, except reave can also hurt barriers, and can give a health bonus while also CC a target.

Taking Grunt and Garrus as a squadmate as an adept I find is not as effective as taking Biotic characters, specifically those with Warp or Pull. Singularity takes care of multiple targets, and jacob can provide not only the squad ammo for a damage boost, but also has good health and protection as well as being able to set up for biotic combos, so he fills that role of grunt in taking abuse quite nicely. Whats the point of unstable warp if people will be unaffected by biotics by the time you can use it after casting Singularity. 

Assault Armor for the Sentinel: According to this strategy and this playstyle for the class, Power Armor would be better in every way. Better damage for the warp spamming he advocates and more survivability for the tanking he talks about.

All three classes using maxed out bonus powers, something I personally don't do because the game isn't really balanced with them in mind, but its a personal preference. Depending on the ability though, it really does change the way the class plays, and if your trying to replicate play from easier difficulties, then using the bonus power may not be the right choice.

Also, soldier with reave I'd disagree with and replace, if you want anti barrier, with warp ammo. That way the class does not turn into an ability spam when fighting collectors and stays true to its gun toting nature. Plus, the warp ammo/adrenaline rush combo is likely more efficient for a soldier than using Reave.

Other Disagreements: Vanguard with heavy shockwave. Giving Every class Reave that doesn't have Warp, essentially advocating Reave Spam instead of playing the class using its unique strengths. Cryo Ignorance (its really effective, do a test with the avalanche v husks to see). Doing Tali's mission to get the tempest first, totally ignoring the 3 biotic upgrades and the shotgun on samara, or the viper from thanes mission.

Modifié par Average Gatsby, 24 février 2010 - 01:52 .

[emb31588]

RamsenC wrote...
Sentinel does not need Cryo Blast with throw around. Throw has a faster cooldown and gives the 100% damage bonus on ragdolled enemies. Hardened AR actually does more damage during its duration with everything except the widow and mantis. I agree about shockwave though.

Agreed cryo is not needed on sentinel as throw can funtion just as well, and you have to put some points in throw anyway for warp.

Also cryo is still a very situational skill for engineers, the only time I used it frequently was early on against krogan. Once you get farther into the game a build can easily funtion without it, you just won't get the cool shatter effect.

[FlashAK]

It says at the top:  this takes into account which combinations are most effective at
stripping away an enemies defense. 
That's what I felt was the most important/efficient way to beat Insanity, so keep that in mind.  When they only have health left, you can use any of your abilities on them without impunity.

Of course this guide will be opinionated.  Everybody tackles situations differently.  Some people love Cryo Blast/Ammo, while I never found a use for it.  If this catered to everyone's play style, there would have to be several different build recommendations for each class.  Which I frankly do not have the time for.

It also says: Squadmates will vary from mission to mission. 
The squad recommendations were just general combinations that appear to be useful for most of the game.

@ Direwolfx:  Fail on your part.  Never mentioned anything about heightened/hardened doing more damage.  I said Hardened reduces damage.
Miranda has squad health/damage bonus.  No other squadmate improves the entire squad with their passive ability like Miranda.
Shockwave for distance and crowd control.  Not an ability to use all the time, but will come in handy.  I evolved it because I felt rank 1 pull was enough and didn't find cryo useful.

[RamsenC]

Ah I didn't even notice the guide recommended squad mates and weapon types. I should pay more attention :l



Gatsby covered it though.

[DirewolfX]

@sinosleep: It should take fewer shots to down defenses than health if you're using the right weapons. :-) No weapon has an innate bonus on health... it makes those pure-health CC moves like Pull and Cryo amazing.



@RamsenC: I don't think throw really ragdolls enemies as long, unless you set it up with a pull first. Plus it knocks them away, which could make it harder to target. Cryo locks enemies down where they are.



@Herbn: I'll concede whatever point you have about AR. It's not like it really matters as long as you have Rank 4 on Soldier.



Miranda's health bonus isn't even worth a tenth of a second on Insanity and the damage bonus is pretty bad by the time you can get it maxed out, if you understand how damage buffs are calculated in this game.



Why shockwave when you have pull? Neither affect targets with defenses, and pull is much more effective at taking out targets on health (even with rank 1) since you can arc it around cover and it has a shorter cooldown.

[mundus66]

Having played every class a full playthrough on insanity, from my experience with every class, you are of on all of them except for infiltrator, which you nailed pretty well (except you recommended 2x squad ammos).

Posting "recommended team" for different classes is just stupid, there isn't a best team. Different squad members are always better or worse for different missions. Some are more useful than others though, but nobody thats knows the game well, brings the same squad to Talis recruit mission, as they do to the collector ship for example, for obvious reasons. While we are on the subject, Grunt is imo one of the least useful squad mates, you wanna know why? Because there is Jacob, who is basically the same but he has pull, so that he can set up biotic combos. You even pick unstable warp for adept, yet you don't list squad mates with pull as recommended.

Its nice that you are trying, but its obvious you don't know how to play some of the classes very well. You have reave as extra talent for most of them, which been proven is just ridiculous. Even a soldier can get through suicide run using pretty much only reave without firing his gun.

[Jaekahn]

mundus66 wrote...


Posting "recommended team" for different classes is just stupid, there isn't a best team. Different squad members are always better or worse for different missions. Some are more useful than others though, but nobody thats knows the game well, brings the same squad to Talis recruit mission, as they do to the collector ship for example, for obvious reasons. While we are on the subject, Grunt is imo one of the least useful squad mates, you wanna know why? Because there is Jacob, who is basically the same but he has pull, so that he can set up biotic combos. You even pick unstable warp for adept, yet you don't list squad mates with pull as recommended.

I will have to disagree with you. Even though squad mates do not change each time you play, I found that certain squad combinations benefit eachother or benefit you, depending on your class. Engineer, for example, can get a huge damage boost when running with Mordin on heavy organic fights. Dual Incinerate or Cryo / Incinerate has the potential to deal some great damage. Also, since an Engineer has every ability to remove armor except for Barrier, it is wise to bring someone with you that can remove barriers, Thane or Miranda for example. Granted this concept can be included with every class. Also, an Engineer doesn't benefit from bringing Tali along with them as well as a Sentinel or an Infiltrator may. They have a Drone with a quicker cooldown.

I'm not trying to deny the fact that you can practically get away with bringing anyone. I'm just saying that some squad members work better with certain classes, while some squad members really do not.

[mundus66]

Jaekahn wrote...


I will have to disagree with you. Even though squad mates do not change each time you play, I found that certain squad combinations benefit eachother or benefit you, depending on your class. Engineer, for example, can get a huge damage boost when running with Mordin on heavy organic fights. Dual Incinerate or Cryo / Incinerate has the potential to deal some great damage. Also, since an Engineer has every ability to remove armor except for Barrier, it is wise to bring someone with you that can remove barriers, Thane or Miranda for example. Granted this concept can be included with every class. Also, an Engineer doesn't benefit from bringing Tali along with them as well as a Sentinel or an Infiltrator may. They have a Drone with a quicker cooldown.

I'm not trying to deny the fact that you can practically get away with bringing anyone. I'm just saying that some squad members work better with certain classes, while some squad members really do not.

Its still more important to take a team that is suitable for the mobs you are up against. You don't bring Mordin vs collectors, beacuse he compliments your class since its weak against armor. Even if you're a engineer, the best team for a geth mission, is probably Tali and Legion or Legion and Zaeed (disruptor ammo).

Modifié par mundus66, 24 février 2010 - 12:30 .

[Jaekahn]

Oh yes, I agree whole heartedly. I'm not disagreeing with the whole post, just the portion that says that Recommended teams for different classes is stupid.

[FlashAK]

If you disagree with my opinion, that's fine. Everyone has their own beliefs. I just don't understand the people who think that everyone other than themselves aren't entitled to them. It's not like I'm going into your house and respecing your characters to my own recommendations. Don't like them? Don't use them. Free will, it's a pretty basic concept.



@Direwolfx: Miranda's boosts are percentage based, so it makes a difference. If the percentage base didn't matter, why would you bother upgrading an ammo ability/weapon to get a higher % damage bonus? That doesn't make much sense.



@ mundus66: I state in the article that "Squadmates will vary from mission to mission." So those recommendations aren't saying bring these characters with you everywhere.

You say having Reave has been proven useless. Where is this "fact" stated? Then you go and contradict yourself and say you used Reave to beat the suicide run without firing a shot.