87 réponses à ce sujet

[Marstead]

I think BioWare gets a big round of applause for successfully writing away everyone's suspicion of Cerberus.

Everywhere I look, I see Wilson's motives listed as a potential "plot hole"; even the Wiki doesn't cast a shred of doubt on whether he was actually a traitor. If you look at the rest of the game, and the way both Miranda and the Illusive Man behave, it makes a lot more sense if the entire opening level was an intentional "fire course" built to test Shepard's abilities:

1) The incident occurs shortly after Shepard wakes up consciously for the first time.
2) Miranda does not hesitate for a moment to kill Wilson, and handwaves him as a traitor. The Illusive Man does similar handwaving when he mentions Wilson.
3) The Illusive Man's comments on the Mission Complete screen mention all evidence of the Lazarus Project facility being destroyed. If this was the intent, it would make sense to loose mechs on the involved scientists, kill its lead scientist, and all the while test Shepard's mettle.
4) Jacob & Miranda state pretty straight away on the shuttle that little additional evidence of Shepard's identity is necessary because of his performance on the ship.
5) Despite the game's largely successful attempts to change gamers' opinions about Cerberus, you have to remember that they were in fact performing vile experiments and are still an extremely shady organization. If you play the game Renegade, we know for a fact that the Illusive Man and Miranda lied outright to Shepard about the treatment of Veetor-they promised he would be returned unharmed after brief questioning, but talking to him on the Flotilla reveals he was tortured and drugged. These are not good people.

I don't think that Jacob was in on the deception; just Miranda and the Illusive Man. I think Miranda remains an "enemy" of sorts until the very end of the game, when you win her loyalty on the Collector Ship.

tl;dr:Wilson wasn't a traitor and he didn't matter; it makes sense for Cerberus to have done everything at the beginning of the game on purpose.

[The Angry One]

I thought that was blatantly obvious, myself.

[DarthCaine]

I personally think he was working for the Shadow Broker. Other people think the Collectors. Some people say Cerberus, while others say Wilson just went bonkers and wanted to kill Shepard

It was never explained. It's a plot hole

Modifié par DarthCaine, 24 février 2010 - 12:40 .

[Edgar1729]

He's jalous of Miranda and is interested in money, the fact that he was with the mech and his ranting about Miranda is suspicious too, that's what the logs during the first mission suggest anyway.



My bet is that he was working for the Shadow Broker too.



But yes, Miranda and the Illusive Man don't have any hesitation to blatantly lie to your face.

[Marstead]

The Angry One wrote...

I thought that was blatantly obvious, myself.

No kidding! It's why I was shocked to come online to find everyone hip-deep in trust for the Illusive Man and Miranda. eugh

[WilliamShatner]

Marstead wrote...

I think BioWare gets a big round of applause for successfully writing away everyone's suspicion of Cerberus.

Everywhere I look, I see Wilson's motives listed as a potential "plot hole"; even the Wiki doesn't cast a shred of doubt on whether he was actually a traitor. If you look at the rest of the game, and the way both Miranda and the Illusive Man behave, it makes a lot more sense if the entire opening level was an intentional "fire course" built to test Shepard's abilities:

1) The incident occurs shortly after Shepard wakes up consciously for the first time.
2) Miranda does not hesitate for a moment to kill Wilson, and handwaves him as a traitor. The Illusive Man does similar handwaving when he mentions Wilson.
3) The Illusive Man's comments on the Mission Complete screen mention all evidence of the Lazarus Project facility being destroyed. If this was the intent, it would make sense to loose mechs on the involved scientists, kill its lead scientist, and all the while test Shepard's mettle.
4) Jacob & Miranda state pretty straight away on the shuttle that little additional evidence of Shepard's identity is necessary because of his performance on the ship.
5) Despite the game's largely successful attempts to change gamers' opinions about Cerberus, you have to remember that they were in fact performing vile experiments and are still an extremely shady organization. If you play the game Renegade, we know for a fact that the Illusive Man and Miranda lied outright to Shepard about the treatment of Veetor-they promised he would be returned unharmed after brief questioning, but talking to him on the Flotilla reveals he was tortured and drugged. These are not good people.

I don't think that Jacob was in on the deception; just Miranda and the Illusive Man. I think Miranda remains an "enemy" of sorts until the very end of the game, when you win her loyalty on the Collector Ship.

tl;dr:Wilson wasn't a traitor and he didn't matter; it makes sense for Cerberus to have done everything at the beginning of the game on purpose.

No and no.

[Louis deGuerre]

This occurred to me but it just makes it worse.
Why ? Because it makes Shepard look stupid accepting everything at face value.
Which is annoying because you feel your character is an idiot.

This comic tells my feelings best

[Crossofthorns]

Marstead wrote...

I think BioWare gets a big round of applause for successfully writing away everyone's suspicion of Cerberus.

Everywhere I look, I see Wilson's motives listed as a potential "plot hole"; even the Wiki doesn't cast a shred of doubt on whether he was actually a traitor. If you look at the rest of the game, and the way both Miranda and the Illusive Man behave, it makes a lot more sense if the entire opening level was an intentional "fire course" built to test Shepard's abilities:

1) The incident occurs shortly after Shepard wakes up consciously for the first time.
2) Miranda does not hesitate for a moment to kill Wilson, and handwaves him as a traitor. The Illusive Man does similar handwaving when he mentions Wilson.
3) The Illusive Man's comments on the Mission Complete screen mention all evidence of the Lazarus Project facility being destroyed. If this was the intent, it would make sense to loose mechs on the involved scientists, kill its lead scientist, and all the while test Shepard's mettle.
4) Jacob & Miranda state pretty straight away on the shuttle that little additional evidence of Shepard's identity is necessary because of his performance on the ship.
5) Despite the game's largely successful attempts to change gamers' opinions about Cerberus, you have to remember that they were in fact performing vile experiments and are still an extremely shady organization. If you play the game Renegade, we know for a fact that the Illusive Man and Miranda lied outright to Shepard about the treatment of Veetor-they promised he would be returned unharmed after brief questioning, but talking to him on the Flotilla reveals he was tortured and drugged. These are not good people.

I don't think that Jacob was in on the deception; just Miranda and the Illusive Man. I think Miranda remains an "enemy" of sorts until the very end of the game, when you win her loyalty on the Collector Ship.

tl;dr:Wilson wasn't a traitor and he didn't matter; it makes sense for Cerberus to have done everything at the beginning of the game on purpose.

interesting, you may be right
still i think that wilson can be an agent of Shadow Broker, makes sense too
In ME3 maybe Miranda tell us what really happened

[Soma Holiday]

I will NEVER trust Cerberus. I went against everything they wanted in ME2. I wouldn't give them Veetor, I gave the data to Jack, I uploaded the information to myself, I woke up Legion, I blew up the base, pretty much everything to ****** them off.



They were doing some furcked up stuff in the first game. I don't care if they saved my life they are not good people. I am waiting for Miranda to turn on Shepard aswell, maybe kill Jacob or something...I honestly thought she was going to do it in this game if I didn't gain her loyalty, but she didn't...would have been interesting though...

[Taerda]

Wilson and his motives were suspect, just from his log entries ... " I just wish TIM would send some cash my way.." and "Perhaps now Miranda will recognize my achievements for what they are." ... yet, in no way did I ever change my opinion that Cerebus was not to be trusted and that if push came to shove, I had every expectation that they would leave me up the creek without a paddle so to speak.



It is one reason that both Miranda and Jacob would have been found dead on Omega once Garrus was back if I had my way.

[Frotality]

theory is still just a theory. the fact of the matter is they never so much as hinted as to how wilson betrayed cerberus and why, or whatever happened on the station and why. the only facts are that wilson apparently didnt like his job, and that miranda said he was a traitor; hardly compelling proof for any theory, and it still doesnt excuse leaving a big ole plot hole like that unmentioned and unsolved.

[The Angry One]

What does TIM say later on? "Information is my weapon."

So TIM is not going to keep ultra-close scrutiny of his biggest and most expensive project? Some schmuck like Wilson is going to mess it up all by himself?

Not a chance. TIM staged the whole thing, and put Shep in danger exactly like he does later on, because he knows Shep will survive - he wouldn't have invested billions if he didn't.

[ExtremeOne]

Wilson got what he deserved

[marshalleck]

So explain Wilson's surprise at hearing from Jacob that Shepard is alive.

[Taerda]

marshalleck wrote...

So explain Wilson's surprise at hearing from Jacob that Shepard is alive.

Wilson did not consider that Miranda/TIM would wake Shepard. A sleeping Sherpard would not have survived.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Notice how excited Wilson is at one of the logs too that they raised Shepard back from the dead. I think it's pretty clear that he was very invested in the project of bringing Shep back.



I think that Bioware actually should be congratulated for this because those logs of Wilson's pulls the audience 7 different ways and there's no clear answer. It had to be intentional.



I also think that the Illusive Man set the whole thing up.

[Taerda]

FaintlyAlarmed wrote...

Soma Holiday wrote...

I will NEVER trust Cerberus. I went against everything they wanted in ME2. I wouldn't give them Veetor, I gave the data to Jack, I uploaded the information to myself, I woke up Legion, I blew up the base, pretty much everything to ****** them off.

They were doing some furcked up stuff in the first game. I don't care if they saved my life they are not good people. I am waiting for Miranda to turn on Shepard aswell, maybe kill Jacob or something...I honestly thought she was going to do it in this game if I didn't gain her loyalty, but she didn't...would have been interesting though...

Taerda wrote...

Wilson and his motives were suspect, just from his log entries ... " I just wish TIM would send some cash my way.." and "Perhaps now Miranda will recognize my achievements for what they are." ... yet, in no way did I ever change my opinion that Cerebus was not to be trusted and that if push came to shove, I had every expectation that they would leave me up the creek without a paddle so to speak.

It is one reason that both Miranda and Jacob would have been found dead on Omega once Garrus was back if I had my way.

Wow. That's kind of harsh on Jacob and Miranda, guys. I don't know about Jacob, but if you have Miranda with you at the end of the game and you choose to blow up the base, Miranda backs you up. And when TIM finally orders her to stop you - she quits Cerberus. Tells him to "consider this her resignation." She may be a b*tch, but she's not a bad person.

I don't think either are "bad" but they are there as controls over me and my command. With my command compromised by them, survival is that much more iffy. It taking the entire game for Miranda to switch loyalties is far too long to allow her to be X/O. Jacob being in charge of the armory is just too dangerous not to get rid of him and put a loyal, trusted squadmate in charge of.

[Cutlass Jack]

Marstead wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I thought that was blatantly obvious, myself.

No kidding! It's why I was shocked to come online to find everyone hip-deep in trust for the Illusive Man and Miranda. eugh

I've been arguing this one for weeks now. It was a complete setup.

[marshalleck]

You need a loyal squadmate to maintain the weapons that Jacob himself is going to be relying on? What would he gain aside from his own potential death by sabotaging them? That seems really paranoid.

[Jimbe2693]

God, I hated Miranda's little permanent grin and "I'm always right" attitude when she killed Wilson, If I had the chance I would've pulled the trigger on her right there, but no, Shepard has two options : "If you say so" and "I thought he was just looking for a chance to shoot me in the back"



It's all BS if you ask me. In the first game Bioware made these guys the typical shady organization doing horrific experiments, now everything they've done is excused, and Shepard doesn't confront them about anything.



I just want to put a gunshot through TIM's head please

[marshalleck]

Taerda wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

So explain Wilson's surprise at hearing from Jacob that Shepard is alive.

Wilson did not consider that Miranda/TIM would wake Shepard. A sleeping Sherpard would not have survived.

I'm not convinced. Whatever work they were doing on Shepard was essentially complete aside from healing scars. If Wilson had nothing to do with the mechs going crazy, he would have no idea that Shepard is directly at risk. Not to mention where you find him there are no destroyed mechs around, and he never adequately explains his mystery access to the control systems.

[BellaStrega]

I think this is just one of a handful of holes regarding TIM and Cerberus and associated machinations.

[marshalleck]

Jimbe2693 wrote...

God, I hated Miranda's little permanent grin and "I'm always right" attitude when she killed Wilson, If I had the chance I would've pulled the trigger on her right there, but no, Shepard has two options : "If you say so" and "I thought he was just looking for a chance to shoot me in the back"

So you'd execute Miranda without interrogation for the crime of executing someone without interrogation?