331 réponses à ce sujet

[Taerda]

Sialater wrote...

It's a game.  Fill in the blanks with your imagination. 

This is a dangerous thing to ask people to do.

[Nightwriter]

The Angry One wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Really, I hardly expect you to be beholden to my definition of feminity simply becaus I am defending the OP against accusations of sexism.

I really am only curious. Expressing your opinion of what femininity is is not the same as expecting others to be beholden to that opinion. These are the forums. Just tell me what you think, for the hell of it, and I will tell you what I think, for the hell of it. Doesn't have to be an argument.

That's the thing. I don't think femininity is so easily defined. Nor is masculinity.
You can describe traits that are normally associated with either through sociatal bias, aggression is considered masculine for instance, and empathy feminine. But these are *not* masculine/feminine traits by themselves.

You are quite right, femininity and masculinity are hard to define. They are felt intuitively through a lot of subtle indicators that aren't easy to pinpoint.

However, I might say that whether or not you think her voice is masculine depends a lot upon how masculine you consider your character to be. If you don't consider your character to be as masculine as that voice sounds, it's going to feel out of place, like it doesn't match with who she is.

If your character is more masculine, her voice isn't going to sound out of place at all. It's probably going to sound perfectly normal. It's a very personal thing.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 24 février 2010 - 03:17 .

[rolltide123]

BellaStrega wrote...

rolltide123 wrote...

How does me not liking a voice on MY character because it is very deep and masculine sexist.
I didn't say I didn't like it on other girls I just said.
I didn't like it because it was too deep for my personal taste and not how I thought my Shepard would sound.
Why would I be Sexist against my own sex???

Jennifer Hale is a woman. Her voice is Fem!Shep's voice. Are you with me so far?

You're judging Hale's femininity and womanhood on the basis of how deep her voice sounds to you. You're calling her manly and saying that her voice is unsuitable for a female character. This is sexist.

I  don't know why you personally would say sexist things. That's something you'll have to come to terms with yourself.

I dont care about Jennifer Hale's voice on her. Okay? You still with me???
I don't know her its irrelavent. I just think  that the voice is to deep and manly on my character in the video game.
Her personaly no real girls no 
The way I thought she would sound and would like her to sound. Yes its to manly for my taste on my character.
On an actual living breathing person its just fine. Do you get it? Are you with me so far?

[Sialater]

DaeJi wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Her legs close when she stands up.  Which is more than I can say for the girls in DA:O.  Love the game, just want the girls' legs to, you know, do what girls' legs do when they walk.  (I don't know, I don't watch myself walk!)


It's a game.  Fill in the blanks with your imagination. 

Personally, I'm fine with her. The animations are a little jarring, but I stop caring really quickly (except for the way her head flops to the side).

I'm fine with her, too.  Even the voice.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go figure out how my unfeminine Shepard managed to get herself in a triangle with two men.

[The Angry One]

Thing is I don't consider my Shep masculine at all, just someone who's been through hell and back and is doing her duty as she's been trained all her life to as best she can.

To that end I feel the voice fits perfectly.

[Sialater]

Taerda wrote...

Sialater wrote...

It's a game.  Fill in the blanks with your imagination. 

This is a dangerous thing to ask people to do.

Thinking is dangerous. 

But yes, this is what gives rise to horrid horrid Lemons and Slashfic. 

[Sharn01]

I have to stop moving when ever the head flops, its caused by taking off running when you where looking at a interactive object and can get annoying.

[ReubenLiew]

She gotta do the catwalk...

Yeah the catwalk... do the catwalk...

[BellaStrega]

wizardryforever wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Protip: You named the topic 'Masculinity of female Shepard', not 'I don't really like femShep's voice'.

It's funny you should mention that, because if she had named it that, it would have devolved into a bunch of Hale lovers flaming her for not sharing their opinion.  That discussion would probably be even more moronic than this one has been.

I'm not sure you can get more moronic than:

"male and female skills"

"As a white man, sexism and racism aren't important to me, and I don't think people should call them out."

"Calling someone sexist is a terrible accusation."

If she'd said she didn't like Jennifer Hale's voice, that'd be a far cry from saying Hale sounds too manly. It'd go down from "This is what women are supposed to sound like forever and always" to 'this is my own preference."

[ahnnajade]

Ha,

I was a bit caught off what I was initially expecting when I heard her VAing too. Her voice is, I'm pretty sure, deeper than your average woman and as men have the deeper voices...

That said I think her VAing is superior to male shep and after I let go of my initial expectations I think her particular voice, which is quite full of character, adds a lot to femshep and I rather like it now.



The animations and postures and such I'd expect of a soldier.. though in a few places, particularly in sitting bits and stuff, it's rather obvious they just used the male animations. Or maybe that's just my grandmother screaming subconsciously in my brain...

[rolltide123]

BellaStrega wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

That still doesn't give you a free-pass to call people sexist for their opinion. Just point me out where the topic-starter is being sexist. You can't, because she isn't. You're just jumping to conclusions.

No one asks for a stereotypical femShep (atleast I don't), but that doesn't withold me from feeling that there is something out of place with femShep, though I still can't puth my finger on what it really is. Maybe her animations? Maybe her deep monotone voice? Who knows. But I know femShep isn't a realistic female soldier. That role would go to Ashley. She's a female soldier and I never had the feeling there was something out of place with her character. How come I DO have this feeling with femShep?

So yeah, explain me this. Why does femShep feel out of place while Ashley doesn't?

Fem!Shep doesn't feel out of place to me.

Also, you're acting so enraged and hurt that anyone would call you sexist. You make it sound like being called out on sexism is worse than saying sexist things. This is such a ludicrous proposition it's not even funny. 

Oh? I'm not in enraged or hurt. I'm actually pretty amused.  I just asked a simple question ,maybe I didn't word the best I could ,but I didn't think it was this controversial. Being called out for being sexist over something this little is crazy. It was a simple question no sexism intended.

[Nightwriter]

What I don't get is that Bastila's voice doesn't sound masculine at all. In fact, when I first heard that Jennifer Hale did Bastila as well as femShep, I was flabbergasted. They're unrecognizable to me.



Which means she actually changed her voice for this role. I wonder why? Maybe they coached her that she was supposed to have a deeper voice for Mass Effect or something? Or maybe she has a naturally deep voice and she actually changed it for Bastila's role... I don't know...

[Tok153]

In my opinion a non masculine femshep couldn't exist/ would be odd. The amount of badassery necessary for the main character requires masculine attributes. (Don't call me sexist Girls can be aggressive (which is a common masculine trait) just as a Man can be nurturing (which is a common feminine trait).) (Yes I do have () inside of a ()... Booyah)

[DaeJi]

If you listen to one of her interviews, the voice Hale uses for Shepard is pretty close to her actual voice.

[crimsonrhodelia]

ahnnajade wrote...

Ha,
I was a bit caught off what I was initially expecting when I heard her VAing too. Her voice is, I'm pretty sure, deeper than your average woman and as men have the deeper voices...
That said I think her VAing is superior to male shep and after I let go of my initial expectations I think her particular voice, which is quite full of character, adds a lot to femshep and I rather like it now.

IA, another thing that threw me off was that I'd only ever (knowingly) heard Hale as Bastila and Mazzy Fentan before, both of whom of course sound so completely different! I've gotten so used to femshep's voice that I have to build the face of a new Shep around the voice.

[Sialater]

Since it's really hard to go lower on purpose, I say she went higher for Bastila's.

[The Angry One]

Nightwriter wrote...

What I don't get is that Bastila's voice doesn't sound masculine at all. In fact, when I first heard that Jennifer Hale did Bastila as well as femShep, I was flabbergasted. They're unrecognizable to me.

Which means she actually changed her voice for this role. I wonder why? Maybe they coached her that she was supposed to have a deeper voice for Mass Effect or something? Or maybe she has a naturally deep voice and she actually changed it for Bastila's role... I don't know...

First of all deep =! masculine.
It also isn't that deep.
Thirdly it was a concious decision to sound a little deep (but not THAT deep) and cynical given that Shep just died and came back, and lost two years, and has the weight of saving the galaxy on her, on top of the crap she went through in ME1.
What some people fail to consider is that Shep is NOT a blank slate, like most RPG characters, Shep has a history, and a personality shaped by it.

[Taerda]

Nightwriter wrote...

What I don't get is that Bastila's voice doesn't sound masculine at all. In fact, when I first heard that Jennifer Hale did Bastila as well as femShep, I was flabbergasted. They're unrecognizable to me.

Which means she actually changed her voice for this role. I wonder why? Maybe they coached her that she was supposed to have a deeper voice for Mass Effect or something? Or maybe she has a naturally deep voice and she actually changed it for Bastila's role... I don't know...

Or maybe she read the script and interpreted it the way she felt she should have?

Voice acting means that different roles have different voices, or perhaps you think every character's voice should sound like Jessica Rabbits?

[SarEnyaDor]

If you watch the extras, her normal speaking voice is pretty similar to femShep's. I think she went higher for Bastila as well.



And her voice isn't Kathleen Turner deep.

[wizardryforever]

BellaStrega wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Protip: You named the topic 'Masculinity of female Shepard', not 'I don't really like femShep's voice'.

It's funny you should mention that, because if she had named it that, it would have devolved into a bunch of Hale lovers flaming her for not sharing their opinion.  That discussion would probably be even more moronic than this one has been.

I'm not sure you can get more moronic than:

"male and female skills"

"As a white man, sexism and racism aren't important to me, and I don't think people should call them out."

"Calling someone sexist is a terrible accusation."

If she'd said she didn't like Jennifer Hale's voice, that'd be a far cry from saying Hale sounds too manly. It'd go down from "This is what women are supposed to sound like forever and always" to 'this is my own preference."

Well really, I can kinda see the point of all of those things, which are based on pseudo-facts.  At least they aren't pure opinion.  Male and femal skills could refer to certain sexual acts that just aren't doable by the opposite sex. 

The second point I can see, given my background (posted earlier).  It gets tiresome quickly when people cry out sexism and racism over the smallest things.  What's funny is that if you point out how irrational those people are being, they often accuse you of racism or sexism.  Case in point : "You humans are all racist!"

The third point ties into the second one, where people take offense too easily.  Both the accuser and the accused.

But that's just my take on things.  I have the uncanny ability to see the other sides of an argument.  More people should try it, the world might be a better place.

[ahnnajade]

She voiced Bastila too?! Oiiigh I hated that character... But I was 16 or something, maybe I was just being .. 16ish and bitter.



Yes, Angry makes a good point. Shep, despite initial character-creation deceptions, is not a character you make. She's one you... direct... And good thing, too, that they didn't pad this with making all her traits generic and average. That'd be bad.

[Nightwriter]

Sialater wrote...

Since it's really hard to go lower on purpose, I say she went higher for Bastila's.

Yeah, I think you're right. She's a really good voice actress, though, her characters sound so different!

[Reptilian Rob]

"Dude looks like a lady".

[DaeJi]

ahnnajade wrote...

Yes, Angry makes a good point. Shep, despite initial character-creation deceptions, is not a character you make. She's one you... direct... And good thing, too, that they didn't pad this with making all her traits generic and average. That'd be bad.

That's true of all BioWare heroes. Shepard is bit more confined than others though, given that she or he is voice acted. Still, playing Shepard is the same as playing the Warden in Dragon Age: Origins, only with the extra dimension of her or his voice to consider.

[Nightwriter]

wizardryforever wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Protip: You named the topic 'Masculinity of female Shepard', not 'I don't really like femShep's voice'.

It's funny you should mention that, because if she had named it that, it would have devolved into a bunch of Hale lovers flaming her for not sharing their opinion.  That discussion would probably be even more moronic than this one has been.

I'm not sure you can get more moronic than:

"male and female skills"

"As a white man, sexism and racism aren't important to me, and I don't think people should call them out."

"Calling someone sexist is a terrible accusation."

If she'd said she didn't like Jennifer Hale's voice, that'd be a far cry from saying Hale sounds too manly. It'd go down from "This is what women are supposed to sound like forever and always" to 'this is my own preference."

Well really, I can kinda see the point of all of those things, which are based on pseudo-facts.  At least they aren't pure opinion.  Male and femal skills could refer to certain sexual acts that just aren't doable by the opposite sex. 

The second point I can see, given my background (posted earlier).  It gets tiresome quickly when people cry out sexism and racism over the smallest things.  What's funny is that if you point out how irrational those people are being, they often accuse you of racism or sexism.  Case in point : "You humans are all racist!"

The third point ties into the second one, where people take offense too easily.  Both the accuser and the accused.

But that's just my take on things.  I have the uncanny ability to see the other sides of an argument.  More people should try it, the world might be a better place.

Yes. Yes, it would.

I know what you mean though. I'm sure the OP feels a bit like I did when I was called a racist for asking someone if they thought Jacob looked a bit like Kanye West.

I really was just expressing an innocent opinion. I sincerely thought they looked similar in a lot of shots, I wasn't trying to be stereotypical at all. But I was flamed at...

It happens.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 24 février 2010 - 03:41 .