331 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

Luc0s wrote...

rolltide123 wrote...

I don't know if any one else thought it was weird that femal shep and male shep had the same lines
and body positioning.
In my opinion the female Shepard was strange to play because her voice and the way she carried herself was
so manly. It was probaly meant for her to be very masculine but it was weird to me.
Her voice annoyed me so much the first  I heard it that I rerolled as a guy.

So the point of all that rambling was did you find femal Shepard really masculine and didn't like it?
OR
Thought it fit the character and was good?

I made a thread about this a few days/weeks ago with exactly the same statement and opinion as you. The topic became a flame-war because a lot of angry femShep-mancers jumped on my back and attacked me for my opinion being sexist and that kind of bullsh-. I see the same is happening all over again in this thread.

Seriously dude, femShep is holy on this forum. It's better not to question her or else all femShep players will be upset, and believe me, A LOT of posters on this forum are femShep players.

Not holy, just tired of a strong woman being called masculine. 

[enormousmoonboots]

rolltide123 wrote...

I'm not Sexist. I'm a GIRL.

The fact that you are presumably old enough to buy this game for yourself and plan a career path and yet, think this statement is valid distrubs me.

Look, I get what you're trying to say. You're disappoint that you can't recreate yourself in Mass Effect. And, well...so? Mass Effect isn't the Sims. You're not really supposed to recreate yourself. You have the option of cobbling together a face that miiight bear passing resemblance to your own (and the success stories of the ME face creator are a rare bird indeed compared to the failures), but you still have limited control over Shepard's actions. This isn't a sandbox game, it's an RPG.

I don't understand what you're complaining about, honestly. I'm a woman, and I goddamn love that Femshep is a heroine that doesn't sway her hips madly like FemRevan or Exile. I love that there's no tacked-on 'girly' animations or comments.

You want a game with a stereotypically feminine female character? Go play any other game with a female major character. I'll take my female space marine and be goddamn proud of it.

[Herr Uhl]

Sialater wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
Yup, testosterone makes one more aggressive, that is truth. Compare a dog pre and post neutering for specific proof.

Nah, that's just laziness.

Well, the males that I meet that pump steroids tend to be a lot more aggressive at least. There is a big overweight in them when it comes to people kicking my ass, well at least the times it's for no reason.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 24 février 2010 - 02:05 .

[wizardryforever]

TeenZombie wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Well, when I think of soldiers, I think of traits like "bravery", "toughness" and "perseverance".  It NEVER occured to me to think of those traits as masculine...and it's pretty sexist and insulting to say that women don't "traditionally" possess those traits.

What I'm saying is that the traditional Western ideal of 'what a woman should be' doesn't place an emphasis on traits like those you mentioned.  I'm not saying that women don't possess those traits, reading comprehension might help.

Ha, you accuse me of lacking reading comprehension because I don't completely agree with you, so you cut out the quote I was referring to.  Is that a "masculine" or "feminine" trait??? 

My point was that while YOU (and wizardryforever) may think that society puts emphasis on those traits, I wasn't raised to believe that.  And the logical conclusion of both your posts is that you're saying that society doesn't see those traits as masculine. 

Personally, when I look at Shepard, I don't see masculinity.  If someone else does, it's quite possible that they are a man...or have been socialized to believe that supposedly "masculine" traits are badass or cool.

Hey now, don't include me in your blanket statement.  Just because I can see the other side of an argument (and have a penchant for defending the underdog) doens't mean I personally believe those things.  In fact, I'm the only son of a very feminist mother and I have two sisters.  I'm well aware of women's legal equality and the labels of society.  I just have a tendency to see things from all sides before deciding.

[Sialater]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
Yup, testosterone makes one more aggressive, that is truth. Compare a dog pre and post neutering for specific proof.

Nah, that's just laziness.

Well, the males that I meet that pump steroids tend to be a lot more aggressive at least. There is a big overweight in them when it comes to people kicking my ass, well at least the times it's for no reason.

Maybe they're neutered?  Or need to be?

[ReubenLiew]

The Angry One wrote...

Heh, my male cat became far more aggressive after neutering.
And don't even get me started on my old sadly deceased female cat, she'd start some epic fights.

That's not normally what happens to males after neutering though, might be a weird side effect or something, or maybe he's just overcompensating
Wild Tom cats are serious brawlers though, I actually saw a muscular male cat once, it was a wtf moment. And I don't mean sleek muscular, like it had bulges and ****.

[screwoffreg]

Female Shep doesn't show a whole lot of emotion nor does male Shepard. You would think a solider who has killed hundreds, died, and come back to life to find everything changed would suffer from PTSD. I guess they cured that in the future!!!

[Sialater]

ReubenLiew wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Heh, my male cat became far more aggressive after neutering.
And don't even get me started on my old sadly deceased female cat, she'd start some epic fights.

That's not normally what happens to males after neutering though, might be a weird side effect or something, or maybe he's just overcompensating
Wild Tom cats are serious brawlers though, I actually saw a muscular male cat once, it was a wtf moment. And I don't mean sleek muscular, like it had bulges and ****.

I owned one of those cats.  He was giant coward.

[ReubenLiew]

Sialater wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Heh, my male cat became far more aggressive after neutering.
And don't even get me started on my old sadly deceased female cat, she'd start some epic fights.

That's not normally what happens to males after neutering though, might be a weird side effect or something, or maybe he's just overcompensating
Wild Tom cats are serious brawlers though, I actually saw a muscular male cat once, it was a wtf moment. And I don't mean sleek muscular, like it had bulges and ****.

I owned one of those cats.  He was giant coward.

Hmm...
Perhaps cats are really just extremely weird?

[The Angry One]

ReubenLiew wrote...


That's not normally what happens to males after neutering though, might be a weird side effect or something, or maybe he's just overcompensating

Probably just upset that he got the old snip or whatever it is they do that I don't want the details of.

Wild Tom cats are serious brawlers though, I actually saw a muscular male cat once, it was a wtf moment. And I don't mean sleek muscular, like it had bulges and ****.

I suppose this is why female cats such as mine are so aggressive. I actually saw my old cat make a big buff tom cat cower in fear at her constant attacks. What she lacked in muscle she made up for in sheer viciousness.

[Sialater]

As weird as the people they own. Like arguing on the internet about a fictional character's femininity.

[The Angry One]

Sialater wrote...

As weird as the people they own. Like arguing on the internet about a fictional character's femininity.

Well that explains why all my cats are selfish, vicious and lazy.
Those last two traits don't even go together. Stupid cats.

[Schroing]

Sialater wrote...

As weird as the people they own. Like arguing on the internet about a fictional character's femininity.

Internet arguments don't get the due they deserve

[ReubenLiew]

I suppose it depends entirely on how territorial your cat is, I know my female cats (neutered too) were extremely aggresive or passive for odd reasons, perhaps has to do with mating season or something.

[DaeJi]

My cat had his... pride removed but he didn't get any nicer. Got into a lot of fights and won too. He was de-clawed though... makes me wonder about those other cats (and that one dog).

screwoffreg wrote...

Female Shep doesn't show a whole lot of emotion nor does male Shepard. You would think a solider who has killed hundreds, died, and come back to life to find everything changed would suffer from PTSD. I guess they cured that in the future!!!

No matter how you play, Shepard of either gender is a badass. The kind of experiences that would break most women are the kind of stuff she puts up with on her way to real problems. She has a galaxy to save and a teammate to hug, a mental break down can wait.

[wizardryforever]

Sialater wrote...

As weird as the people they own. Like arguing on the internet about a fictional character's femininity.

And yet it was clearly worth your time to read the thread and post here.  Hmm.

[syllogi]

wizardryforever wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Well, when I think of soldiers, I think of traits like "bravery", "toughness" and "perseverance".  It NEVER occured to me to think of those traits as masculine...and it's pretty sexist and insulting to say that women don't "traditionally" possess those traits.

What I'm saying is that the traditional Western ideal of 'what a woman should be' doesn't place an emphasis on traits like those you mentioned.  I'm not saying that women don't possess those traits, reading comprehension might help.

Ha, you accuse me of lacking reading comprehension because I don't completely agree with you, so you cut out the quote I was referring to.  Is that a "masculine" or "feminine" trait??? 

My point was that while YOU (and wizardryforever) may think that society puts emphasis on those traits, I wasn't raised to believe that.  And the logical conclusion of both your posts is that you're saying that society doesn't see those traits as masculine. 

Personally, when I look at Shepard, I don't see masculinity.  If someone else does, it's quite possible that they are a man...or have been socialized to believe that supposedly "masculine" traits are badass or cool.

Hey now, don't include me in your blanket statement.  Just because I can see the other side of an argument (and have a penchant for defending the underdog) doens't mean I personally believe those things.  In fact, I'm the only son of a very feminist mother and I have two sisters.  I'm well aware of women's legal equality and the labels of society.  I just have a tendency to see things from all sides before deciding.

First, I'll say, I edited my post after you quoted it, because I made a mistake.  DURR.  So sorry for that.  I'm not all invested in this, just wanted to point out what the conclusion to that statement... "the traits that are attributed to soldiers are considered masculine" would sound like..."traits like bravery and toughness are considered masculine."

Maybe because I was raised by a ex-hippie feminist mom who was raised in Europe, I wasn't raised to consider those traits to be the domain of men.  So I can see how people can take the whole "soldier=male" thing as a negative statement about women.

[Terraneaux]

TeenZombie wrote...

My point was that while YOU (and wizardryforever) may think that society puts emphasis on those traits, I wasn't raised to believe that.  And the logical conclusion of both your posts is that you're saying that society sees those traits as masculine.  

You're first sentence may be true, but it also means that you were raised wrong.  Note that I'm not saying that it's 'right' for the ideals of masculinity and femininity to be the way they are, I'm merely saying that it is what it is.  As for your second statement, yes, I do think that the traits I mentioned are traditionally seen as masculine.  It doesn't mean that women don't or shouldn't possess those traits, however.  

Personally, when I look at Shepard, I don't see masculinity.  If someone else does, it's quite possible that they are a man...or have been socialized to believe that supposedly "masculine" traits are badass or cool.

We're talking about femShep here?  I see a more 'masculine' female than our current ideal of feminine behavior.  This makes sense, she's a member of a profession which encourages its members to display traditionally 'masculine' traits.  There's nothing wrong with that, it's just how the character is presented.  

[Herr Uhl]

wizardryforever wrote...

Sialater wrote...

As weird as the people they own. Like arguing on the internet about a fictional character's femininity.

And yet it was clearly worth your time to read the thread and post here.  Hmm.

Yes, that proves her point. She owns cats.

[apotheosic]

i personally like femshep much better than the male shepard. her VA is a lot better in my opinion.

the armor is practical, and i think it looks good. not sexy, but it certainly isnt ugly. it's armor for crying out loud.

it probably fits my femshep better than others; she being a sociopathic renegade b****. you dont exactly want someone like that to be eager to go on picnics and knit sweaters.

[Schroing]

Luc0s wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

I made a thread about this a few days/weeks ago with exactly the same statement and opinion as you. The topic became a flame-war because a lot of angry femShep-mancers jumped on my back and attacked me for my opinion. I see the same is happening all over again in this thread.

Seriously dude, femShep is holy on this forum. It's better not to question her or else all femShep players will be upset, and believe me, A LOT of posters on this forum are femShep players.

Yes clearly because people don't agree with you we all worship the altar of FemShep.
Let me tell you something, were FemShep a bad or unrealistic character I'd be the first one blasting her. She isn't, and if people yelled at you it was because you were using flimsy arguments to back up your opinion.

No, a lot of posters on this forum go way beyond just disagreeing with people like me and the topic-starter from this thread. If someone dares to question femShep he/she is wrong, he/she is a sexist and/or he/she doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Those are the first things you'll see as a reply when someone posts something negative about femShep or Jennifer Hale. It's kind retarded really.

People didn't yell at me and if they did I would ignore them. But some people did try to attack me for my opinion. I'm not the only one who thinks there is something weird/out of place/masculine about femShep so it seems, but seemly we can't expres this thought without being attacked. Just look at this topic. The topic-starter is perfectly reasonable, yet he/she gets attacked for being a sexist. I mean just, WTF?!?!?

You make the assumption that it's not sexist.

[ERJAK2]

rolltide123 wrote...

I don't know if any one else thought it was weird that femal shep and male shep had the same lines
and body positioning.
In my opinion the female Shepard was strange to play because her voice and the way she carried herself was
so manly. It was probaly meant for her to be very masculine but it was weird to me.
Her voice annoyed me so much the first  I heard it that I rerolled as a guy.

So the point of all that rambling was did you find femal Shepard really masculine and didn't like it?
OR
Thought it fit the character and was good?

Firstly it fits her character perfectly. Secondly, wearing a frilly skirt and swinging your hips is not what makes someone a woman. Finally, masculinity and femininity are not inherent to physical sex. 

[Daewan]

You know, I was sad that I couldn't have a pretty pony for my femShep in her cabin, or the ability to buy her pretty dresses and have her sing to butterflies. But then I remembered I wasn't playing a Disney game. Also, I decided to hold my disappointment in, rather than make a ranting incoherent post about how 'manly' femShep was just because she doesn't skip down the hallways in a frilly pink dress.

Also, after years of talking to women with actual spines, I have learned to tell the difference between a woman with a deep voice and a woman who speaks assertively. It's hard, I know, but really, it's not the same thing.

If you think 'cleavage' in armor is a weakness, I think you need to go study actual medieval armor - you know, the kind that German landsnechts wore to mow down hordes of enemy footsoldiers - the ones with sculpted chest muscles and huge groin protrusions. Good craftsmanship covers a lot of vanity.

Now I'm going to go dress up my femShep in pretty pink armor with burgundy stripes. And a grenade launcher.

[Jalem001]

If you're not going to take his words at face value, don't do so to mine.

He didn't say he found them petty when used in situations that didn't warrant the claim. He stated he found them petty. He stated he found the idea of racism and sexism petty.



Regardless, your point is hardly valid here. The attribution of things like posture, the claim that 'cultural differences' between genders are somehow valid are both sexist claims by definition.



I'm getting sick of spelling this out. Go get a goddamned dictionary.

This is why I've been avoiding responding to you. While The Angry One is logical, you're just on the verge of raging and trying to pick a fight. Borderline troll.



First off: He clearly says:

I find the idea of accusing people of sexism petty, same goes for racism.

Which is much different then what you are saying. "He stated he found the idea of racism and sexism petty." You are lying. Don't try to bs me.



Second: You want to provide an actual, serious, quote where someone said that a woman is not a woman because of posture? There isn't cultural jumping through hoops in this. The worst you see is people arguing over how deep her voice is. No one has said "Your Shep is clearly not a woman because she isn't in my kitchen. Naked. And pregnant. While keeping her mouth shut as the men talk politics and economics." No one. So quit suggesting that someone has.