331 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Luc0s wrote...

No, a lot of posters on this forum go way beyond just disagreeing with people like me and the topic-starter from this thread. If someone dares to question femShep he/she is wrong, he/she is a sexist and/or he/she doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Those are the first things you'll see as a reply when someone posts something negative about femShep or Jennifer Hale. It's kind retarded really.

Because frankly some of the arguments are baffling, and based entirely on personal preference, like "voice too deep".

People didn't yell at me and if they did I would ignore them. But some people did try to attack me for my opinion. I'm not the only one who thinks there is something weird/out of place/masculine about femShep so it seems, but seemly we can't expres this thought without being attacked. Just look at this topic. The topic-starter is perfectly reasonable, yet he/she gets attacked for being a sexist. I mean just, WTF?!?!?

If someone makes statements that seem sexist, why not call them on it.
This whole feminine/masculine thing for instance is blown out of all proportion based on percieved traits and roles rather than sitting down and actually thinking about what is masculinity, what is femininity and what is being a soldier or a strong character.

In the end it seems like some people are complaining because FemShep isn't stereotypically feminine to which I answered in my sarcastic post, ManShep isn't stereotypically masculine either.
In the end, both are defined characters, both are soldiers, both are space heroes out to save the galaxy. That's what matters.

[Schroing]

If you think 'cleavage' in armor is a weakness, I think you need to go study actual medieval armor - you know, the kind that German landsnechts wore to mow down hordes of enemy footsoldiers - the ones with sculpted chest muscles and huge groin protrusions. Good craftsmanship covers a lot of vanity.
Now I'm going to go dress up my femShep in pretty pink armor with burgundy stripes. And a grenade launcher.

If you're making the argument that 'cleavage' in armor is not a weakness then you obviously know nothing about actual medieval armor.

[ERJAK2]

DaeJi wrote...

My cat had his... pride removed but he didn't get any nicer. Got into a lot of fights and won too. He was de-clawed though... makes me wonder about those other cats (and that one dog).

screwoffreg wrote...

Female Shep doesn't show a whole lot of emotion nor does male Shepard. You would think a solider who has killed hundreds, died, and come back to life to find everything changed would suffer from PTSD. I guess they cured that in the future!!!

No matter how you play, Shepard of either gender is a badass. The kind of experiences that would break most women are the kind of stuff she puts up with on her way to real problems. She has a galaxy to save and a teammate to hug, a mental break down can wait.

I honestly got more of a "I enjoy bathing in the spilt blood of my MANY enemies and protecting those I care about at the same time" vibe from her. Like she REALLY likes the killing, but still wants to protect people.

[ERJAK2]

Schroing wrote...

If you think 'cleavage' in armor is a weakness, I think you need to go study actual medieval armor - you know, the kind that German landsnechts wore to mow down hordes of enemy footsoldiers - the ones with sculpted chest muscles and huge groin protrusions. Good craftsmanship covers a lot of vanity.
Now I'm going to go dress up my femShep in pretty pink armor with burgundy stripes. And a grenade launcher.

If you're making the argument that 'cleavage' in armor is not a weakness then you obviously know nothing about actual medieval armor.

How about that whole "the cleavage exposes several major arteries and organs to fire" thing?

[The Angry One]

Luc0s wrote...

Schroing wrote...

You make the assumption that it's not sexist.

Just point me out where the topic-starter is being sexist, try it.

People automatically jumping to conclusions such as "z0mrg sexist!" when people point out the obvious (femShep's masculine and sometime out-of-place behavior). Don't you think that's a little strange? I mean, it's them making the assumptions and claims (that the topic-starter is being sexist), not me.

And how are you doing any better stating opinion as fact?
FemShep having "masculine" and out of place behaviour is YOUR OPINION and one which I and others vehemently disagree with.

[ERJAK2]

Luc0s wrote...

Schroing wrote...

You make the assumption that it's not sexist.

Just point me out where the topic-starter is being sexist, try it.

People automatically jumping to conclusions such as "z0mrg sexist!" when people point out the obvious (femShep's masculine and sometime out-of-place behavior). Don't you think that's a little strange? I mean, it's them making the assumptions and claims (that the topic-starter is being sexist), not me.

It's not that you're actually sexist, it's that you seem to have a very strict idea about what makes a woman a woman. 

[ReubenLiew]

Daewan wrote...

You know, I was sad that I couldn't have a pretty pony for my femShep in her cabin, or the ability to buy her pretty dresses and have her sing to butterflies. But then I remembered I wasn't playing a Disney game. Also, I decided to hold my disappointment in, rather than make a ranting incoherent post about how 'manly' femShep was just because she doesn't skip down the hallways in a frilly pink dress.
Also, after years of talking to women with actual spines, I have learned to tell the difference between a woman with a deep voice and a woman who speaks assertively. It's hard, I know, but really, it's not the same thing.
If you think 'cleavage' in armor is a weakness, I think you need to go study actual medieval armor - you know, the kind that German landsnechts wore to mow down hordes of enemy footsoldiers - the ones with sculpted chest muscles and huge groin protrusions. Good craftsmanship covers a lot of vanity.
Now I'm going to go dress up my femShep in pretty pink armor with burgundy stripes. And a grenade launcher.

Actually, breasts on armor is generally very bad for bullets, because the slope of the cleavage will actually cause the bullet to richochet into the chest. Better to have the entire chest area rounded off or a single solid sloped armor that will deflect it upwards or downwards.
But armor in this game is non-existent anyway, it's the shields that actually do most of the job. Also, magically healing suits.

[Schroing]

[quode]This is why I've been avoiding responding to you. While The Angry One is logical, you're just on the verge of raging and trying to pick a fight. Borderline troll.

First off: He clearly says:[/quote]

[quote]I find the idea of accusing people of sexism petty, same goes for racism.[/quote]

[quote]Which is much different then what you are saying. "He stated he found the idea of racism and sexism petty." You are lying. Don't try to bs me.[/quote]

The word "accusing" and the order are the only differences. Neither make a substantial change in the meaning of the sentences. At best

[quote][/Second: You want to provide an actual, serious, quote where someone said that a woman is not a woman because of posture?[/quote]

The OP said in her first post that Shepard's stance is one of several traits that she finds too manly.

[quote]There isn't cultural jumping through hoops in this. The worst you see is people arguing over how deep her voice is. No one has said "Your Shep is clearly not a woman because she isn't in my kitchen. Naked. And pregnant. While keeping her mouth shut as the men talk politics and economics." No one. So quit suggesting that someone has.[/quote]

Nobody in this thread has, maybe, but when I brought up such references I wasn't making them in the context of the main discussion of this thread.
So stop suggesting that I've said things that I haven't, please.

Modifié par Schroing, 24 février 2010 - 02:29 .

[Schroing]

ERJAK2 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

If you think 'cleavage' in armor is a weakness, I think you need to go study actual medieval armor - you know, the kind that German landsnechts wore to mow down hordes of enemy footsoldiers - the ones with sculpted chest muscles and huge groin protrusions. Good craftsmanship covers a lot of vanity.
Now I'm going to go dress up my femShep in pretty pink armor with burgundy stripes. And a grenade launcher.

If you're making the argument that 'cleavage' in armor is not a weakness then you obviously know nothing about actual medieval armor.

How about that whole "the cleavage exposes several major arteries and organs to fire" thing?

Yes, that is true.
...Which is also my point.

[rolltide123]

Schroing wrote...

rolltide123 wrote...

I'm not Sexist. I'm a GIRL.

Do you really not understand that that doesn't matter? What's next, you have black friends so it's cool?

How does me not liking a voice on MY character because it is very deep and masculine sexist.
I didn't say I didn't like it on other girls I just said.
I didn't like it because it was too deep for my personal taste and not how I thought my Shepard would sound.
Why would I be Sexist against my own sex????

[The Angry One]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Actually, breasts on armor is generally very bad for bullets, because the slope of the cleavage will actually cause the bullet to richochet into the chest. Better to have the entire chest area rounded off or a single solid sloped armor that will deflect it upwards or downwards.
But armor in this game is non-existent anyway, it's the shields that actually do most of the job. Also, magically healing suits.

If you take a minute to compare the N7 armour in this game to the form fitting regular armors you'd see that the "cleavage" part of the suit is lower and a little further out than where the breasts would be, indicating a very thick layer of protection for the cleavage and chest making this pretty much irrelevant.
The form fitting armor doesn't have much of a problem either, as the cleavage potrusion is minimal.

[Nightwriter]

I do wish female Shepard had her own pattern of movement separate from male Shepard.

By that I mean, she walks different, moves different, stands different....

[FlashedMyDrive]

Her voice just annoys me. That's pretty much it. =/

[Acero Azul]

 I have to say i thought her voice was a tad bit manly as well, but most of the conversations sound fine, theres just a few where im like wtf

[Schroing]

rolltide123 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

rolltide123 wrote...

I'm not Sexist. I'm a GIRL.

Do you really not understand that that doesn't matter? What's next, you have black friends so it's cool?

How does me not liking a voice on MY character because it is very deep and masculine sexist.
I didn't say I didn't like it on other girls I just said.
I didn't like it because it was too deep for my personal taste and not how I thought my Shepard would sound.
Why would I be Sexist against my own sex????

You're attributing traits that Shepard has to a perceived masculinity that is not there because it contrasts with your perception of what feminity should be. That is sexism.

[thegreateski]

I don't find it werid.
All the women I know are dominatrixes.




help me

Modifié par thegreateski, 24 février 2010 - 02:32 .

[The Angry One]

rolltide123 wrote...

How does me not liking a voice on MY character because it is very deep and masculine sexist.
I didn't say I didn't like it on other girls I just said.
I didn't like it because it was too deep for my personal taste and not how I thought my Shepard would sound.

I still honestly don't get the too deep angle, or why it would bother you so much.
You obviously have some pre-defined expectations as to how a woman should sound and act, perhaps it would do you better to shed them.

Why would I be Sexist against my own sex????

Is this a trick question? People can be, whether it be due to long held beliefs, personal agenda, self-loathing, etc.
I'm not accusing you of any of this, but it certainly does happen.

[Taerda]

This thread has really been thrown to the dogs, fought and chewed over and declared dead as a rat in a trap.

[rolltide123]

The OP said in her first post that Shepard's stance is one of several traits that she finds too manly.

 I meant I don't like it in my image of Shepard. After seeing a male shepard stand exactly the same way it was odd to me. How has me saying I find it strange that they stand the same way and its odd to me.
All I wanted to know is if other people thought that and if they thought the voice was to deep.
How does that make me sexist just because I thought it was weird and the voice didn't my character's persona.

[ReubenLiew]

The Angry One wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

Actually, breasts on armor is generally very bad for bullets, because the slope of the cleavage will actually cause the bullet to richochet into the chest. Better to have the entire chest area rounded off or a single solid sloped armor that will deflect it upwards or downwards.
But armor in this game is non-existent anyway, it's the shields that actually do most of the job. Also, magically healing suits.

If you take a minute to compare the N7 armour in this game to the form fitting regular armors you'd see that the "cleavage" part of the suit is lower and a little further out than where the breasts would be, indicating a very thick layer of protection for the cleavage and chest making this pretty much irrelevant.
The form fitting armor doesn't have much of a problem either, as the cleavage potrusion is minimal.

True but why compensate for a structural weakness when there is no need for it? Rounding the entire area off (this should apply for the male armor too, stupid manboobs) will be far more structurally sound as protection goes.
In the end it really is just an aesthetic choice, proper armor would have no difference between male and female armor and they would make anyone wearing it androgynous.

But the physical armor in this game has no real world application anyway, since everyone really just relies on their shields than their flimsy papier mache armor. (Seriously, those mercs are idiots)

[The Angry One]

Luc0s wrote...

That still doesn't give you a free-pass to call people sexist for their opinion. Just point me out where the topic-starter is being sexist. You can't, because she isn't. You're just jumping to conclusions.

No one asks for a stereotypical femShep (atleast I don't), but that doesn't withold me from feeling that there is something out of place with femShep, though I still can't puth my finger on what it really is. Maybe her animations? Maybe her deep monotone voice? Who knows. But I know femShep isn't a realistic female soldier. That role would go to Ashley. She's a female soldier and I never had the feeling there was something out of place with her character. How come I DO have this feeling with femShep?

So yeah, explain me this. Why does femShep feel out of place while Ashley doesn't?

Why would I explain to you how your mind works? How the hell should I know?
If that's your opinion fine, but don't claim to "know" anything, for by the same standards I "know" that FemShep is a wonderful rendition of a female soldier out to save the galaxy.

[Schroing]

The Angry One wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

Actually, breasts on armor is generally very bad for bullets, because the slope of the cleavage will actually cause the bullet to richochet into the chest. Better to have the entire chest area rounded off or a single solid sloped armor that will deflect it upwards or downwards.
But armor in this game is non-existent anyway, it's the shields that actually do most of the job. Also, magically healing suits.

If you take a minute to compare the N7 armour in this game to the form fitting regular armors you'd see that the "cleavage" part of the suit is lower and a little further out than where the breasts would be, indicating a very thick layer of protection for the cleavage and chest making this pretty much irrelevant.
The form fitting armor doesn't have much of a problem either, as the cleavage potrusion is minimal.

Angry, nothing would make it irrelevant. It's a structural weakness in the armor that would have to be compensated with extra resources. It may or may not have an actual effect during combat depending on how much of such compensation is done, but no matter what it's an unnecessary risk that could be easily fixed and make irrelevant by simply rounding the area out.

Besides which, I'd have to say that any problems with the lining up of the breasts is an issue with Bioware's graphic design, not the intended setup of the armor.