117 réponses à ce sujet

[Marta Rio]

Godeshus wrote...

Let's see. Throughout 2 epic games, ME1 and ME2, Shepherd is hounded constantly by many enemies. The geth are trying to kill him. Saren was trying to kill him. Matriarch was trying to kill him, then in ME2, the collectors DID kill him, then spent the rest of the game trying to kill him again. They put a trap on Horizon to try and kill him, a trap on the derelict reaper to try and kill him, and a trap on the collector ship to try and kill him.

I believe your theory has some flaws.

-godeshus

What if it were an option given by the reapers after Shep essentially has them beaten?  He has a (figurative) gun to their heads, and they say "wait, we've got this offer you can't refuse..." 

Maybe it's because I'm all about the shades of grey thing, but there has to be more to the reapers than mustache-twirling killing-machine villains, right?

[Godeshus]

Marta Rio wrote...

Godeshus wrote...

Let's see. Throughout 2 epic games, ME1 and ME2, Shepherd is hounded constantly by many enemies. The geth are trying to kill him. Saren was trying to kill him. Matriarch was trying to kill him, then in ME2, the collectors DID kill him, then spent the rest of the game trying to kill him again. They put a trap on Horizon to try and kill him, a trap on the derelict reaper to try and kill him, and a trap on the collector ship to try and kill him.

I believe your theory has some flaws.

-godeshus

What if it were an option given by the reapers after Shep essentially has them beaten?  He has a (figurative) gun to their heads, and they say "wait, we've got this offer you can't refuse..." 

Maybe it's because I'm all about the shades of grey thing, but there has to be more to the reapers than mustache-twirling killing-machine villains, right?

Only he doesn't have a gun to their heads. They killed him. The introduction shows that the illusive man tasked Miranda with making sure he doesn't die, only she got there too late, so they started the lazarus project to bring him back to life to save humanity. Why would the reapers kill him, then bring him back to life to indoctrinate him? Why wouldn't they just try and capture him and indoctrinate him to begin with. This theory has no merit at all.

Here's a rule of thumb for theories. If there is one thing that can prove it wrong, the theory doesn't work. You can have 100 000 000 facts that lend your theory weight, but it only takes one fact to prove it wrong. Seriously, you've got to be objective, here. I know you think it's a neat idea, and would like to believe it, but the evidence against it is just too strong. 

Ok, so shepard was in the presence of Sovereign, then the derelict. A big basis for this argument is those 2 reapers subtly indoctrinating him. Then why did the human reaper at the end of ME2 try to kill him?

If Bioware does take this route, they should fire their writers, because it just doesn't hold up.

-godeshus

[Gill Kaiser]

This is an RPG. I could see there being the option of joining the Reapers, but it would suck utterly if we were forced into it.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

This is an RPG. I could see there being the option of joining the Reapers, but it would suck utterly if we were forced into it.

They'd never force such a thing. Telling us it's all about choice this and that, having multiple endings in ME1 and ME2 just to force a single, crappy ending on us in ME3? No way.

[Ocelot83]

Joining the Reapers could be a non-standard game over (check Fallout 1 and joining the Master), but I'm one hundred percent sure, that it will not be any of the "real" endings. Nobody creates a huge fictional universe only to wipe it clean after only three games.

[Abram730]

I think there will be one cannon ending out of many not so good endings. I don't think the cannon will kill off races, but it could be a climb out of the ashes ending.

Joining with the reapers could be one renegade non-cannon ending.



There will need to be a common state for a new trilogy.



I would think certain decisions in ME1-ME2 would be required for the cannon ending. Otherwise you can only do a prequel.... I don't see how Bioware could do 3 new games from a non-cannon ending... Too many plot variables and all... clearly a new ME3 PC would have the correct choices..



I'm not saying a saved game could be doomed from the start, just non-cannon.

I just don't see how you can start a new trilogy from a multiverse.



One possibility would be 2 cannon endings.... 2 trilogies one a dark renegade and the other a paragon would be interesting... Would you buy it? as in $$$ buy a branched universe? Would you buy both A Mass Effect: Out of the ashes and a Mass Effect: Dark Energy?

[Abram730]

I think there will be one cannon ending out of many not so good endings. I don't think the cannon will kill off races, but it could be a climb out of the ashes ending.

Joining with the reapers could be one renegade non-cannon ending.



There will need to be a common state for a new trilogy.



I would think certain decisions in ME1-ME2 would be required for the cannon ending. Otherwise you can only do a prequel.... I don't see how Bioware could do 3 new games from a non-cannon ending... Too many plot variables and all... clearly a new ME3 PC would have the correct choices..



I'm not saying a saved game could be doomed from the start, just non-cannon.

I just don't see how you can start a new trilogy from a multiverse.



One possibility would be 2 cannon endings.... 2 trilogies one a dark renegade and the other a paragon would be interesting... Would you buy it? as in $$$ buy a branched universe? Would you buy both A Mass Effect: Out of the ashes and a Mass Effect: Dark Energy?

[Blue_dodo]

corebit wrote...

Suron wrote...

sorry but your theory is not just stupid..but epic-stupid.....I don't even see how you could possibly come close to this "theory."

join the reapers? seriously? you really think 1. it's in any stretch of the imagination a good idea or 2. BioWare will end the trilogy in such a way? a way that totally ruins the universe they've created..

sorry but as I said..this "theory" is really stupid

Why is it stupid? Not every ending needs to be a happy one. This would be the perfect opportunity for Bioware to have a dark ending that is also quite fitting. Saving the galaxy is so cliche.

^this
also have some respect

anyways I like that  outcome on the same hand I think you still should b able to save the galexy.

also, renagade is not 'evil" okey,  it's just doing what ever it takes to get the job done.joining with the reapers is just evil or maybe it isn't well in asense.

consider this,if a species were to become so advanced then one day the would start to enslave other species, or perhaps destroy them selves and every body with them (like the krogan did)

Modifié par Blue_dodo, 28 février 2010 - 01:05 .

[superimposed]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

Shepard being sublty indoctrinated is very likely. Almost a crime of the writers not to include this twist. It's a brilliant execution, the player actively being indoctrinated through the series without even knowing it, but seeing the big picture in the third installment makes it obvious.

I doubt the series as a whole will have a dark ending though. More like an interesting plot-twist.
Multiple ending will be available no doubt.

They could do a "Would you kindly..."

Obviously not directly, but having Shepard manipulated would be a good twist, and then the player deciding whether to work with the reapers or against them once discovering that would be nice.
But most importantly the ability to discover that you're being tricked beforehand rather than a 'plot-point' telling you so.

[max_ai]

For one, I'd really like to have at least one ending like this (just like KOTOR has), but I really don't want it to be cheesy (like Reapers begging for their lives).

KOTOR did it perfectly, the choice to go DarkSide was totally yours and not because the enemy was crushed and offered you a place on top if you spared his life. KOTOR DarkSide ending had real sense in it. I truly hope BW will make the effort and make a Reneage (not Evil) ending in which the Reapers have the upper hand for the right reasons.

And while I'm at it, the ending I most want is the one which was cut from KOTOR, when you go dark-side then back to light-side (was to be available only for female characters, and is still available if you mod the game), resulting in the ultimate sacrifice. Ironically, the best ending was cut...

[wolfstanus]

My shep would never do that.

Modifié par wolfstanus, 28 février 2010 - 02:32 .

[77boy84]

The reason Shepard doesn't show any signs of indoctrination is becasue



1) He was never actually inside sovereign. The closest he ever got to the ship was fighting Saren's husk



2) He was only in the derelict reaper for a short time. The cerberus guys didn't get affected by the indoctrination until a little while after staying on the reaper.

[AdamBoozer]

George Luecus (sp?) will be pissed.

[maidros78]

I thought of this too. Actually, it will go in predictable ways.



Harbinger: So you see - we need you to retrieve the heads of the Council!



Shepard: I'll never work for you! You're a bunch of genocidal bastards!



Harbinger: (Yawn) Whatever!



Next scene - you are in front of the Council with a pair of your minions and everyone is shooting at you and you are forced to kill the Council. Well you can always let yourself be killed, but that will only give you `critical mission failure'.

[Q2223339]

I bet it would be the usual type of bad and good. Goodies will save aliens while the baddies save humans

[Luigitornado]

Interesting idea, but I don't think it will happen.

[dude527]

Only problem with Shepard siding with the Reapers and destroying the galaxy is that this is a universe, not a trilogy of games. You can't create this whole universe, and write an epic tale of the cycle it constantly goes through finally stopping only to reverse that and nuke it. Also, that's so Star Wars. It would almost necessitate more games, and Shepard would be Darth Shepard, while his/her son would be Luke Shepard. It just doesn't work in my eyes.

[tktomma]

I'll bet there will some kind of delima in the game along those lines, but springing it up at the first moments of the game without any prior explanation is bad storytelling.  Perhaps Shepard becoming one with the Reapers will be a choice, or an accumulation of choices that climaxes near the endgame, or maybe it won't be in at all, but never so abrupt. 

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Then Sheppard wakes up, realizing it all a dream. Aaahhhhh, ThE eNdz!

[Luigitornado]

I'd rather see the Reaper's attack the Earth.

[Manic Sheep]

It would be a rather sad and ironic ending (witch I like ) but I don't see it happening. If this was a game that was completely linear and meant to only be a single trilogy with nothing after that it might be a possibility but mass effect is suppose to continue after this and has multiple paths. I don't see them taking away all choice at the end. Plus it would make everything you had done up to that point mean nothing.
Also I think you have to be very careful with dark endings. Supposedly (according to low level media classes) with plays and musicals it seems to work out ok but with games and movies you don't really want to leave your audience feeling sad and confused so even if the end is dark you need a silver lining somewhere. Even more so in a game where the player is more involved and you generally want the player to feel like a hero. Don’t know how true that is of course as I said this is based on **** I was taught in media class.
However if the writers could find some way to work subtle indoctrination into the plot it could be good. The affect is cumulative right? Shep hasn’t been near reaper tech or extended periods of time but he/she has come across allot of it and likely will be exposed to more in ME3. It doesn’t seem to be just the reapers themselves that indoctrinate, the dragons teeth do too. Everywhere you find those people end up being turned into husks. No sane person would impale themselves on those things. Any reaper tech could potential have indoctrination affects including the stuff in the collector ships and base or possibly even EDI or sheps cybernetics (Don’t think the illusive man is quite stupid enough to use reaper tech on Shep tho).

Full indoctrination seems to take quite awhile but Shep doesn’t need to reach the “All hail the reapers!” level. Maybe just enough to make Shep a bit more panicky and perhaps do something to try and stop the reapers that actually ends up helping them without realising it. You wouldn’t have to lose control of your character anymore than usual, you don’t control the mission objectives anyway. *shrug*

Just a random thought: Collector’s trade tech for specimen’s right? And the tech they have is reaper tech...so they could potentially be spreading indoctrination around as well as collecting specimens for study? Probably a retarded theory but I figured I’d post it anyway.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 02 décembre 2010 - 01:10 .

[xxMr Anarchyxx]

I think this would be a very good ending but without indoctrination... Shepard might have to join the reapers in a final sacrifice and become the mind of a new Reaper as a trade to give organics a chance to exist for another 50 000 years. I think killing the Reapers and living hapilly ever after would be so cliche more so if Shepard survives the whole thing.

[Selenora]

And to pay 200 or something $ for the whole trilogy plus DLC to find out that i will happily be liquid flowed -inside a reaper- ever after is tottaly my cup of tea

[Soahfreako]

Saw the title and thought it was another one of Zulu's baseless theories. Just sayin'.

[FoxShadowblade]

Soahfreako wrote...

Saw the title and thought it was another one of Zulu's baseless theories. Just sayin'.

Zing!..Sorry. Had to say it.

Let me poke really big holes in your theory.

The Cerberus team on the derelict Reaper, was there a while before they became indoctrinated.

Shepard viewed the message in the beacons.
Shepard gained the Cipher.
Shepard was blown to bits and put back together with a pretty much "Two years...? Cool."

Saren viewed the message in the beacons.
Saren gained the Cipher.

Both are incredibly strong-willed and driven characters. Liara mentions this many times, she's amazed the message or the Cipher didn't destroy Shepard's mind.

Saren was corrupted over YEARS, and even then, had to be implanted with cybernetics to control his mind completely. And yet, even then, Shepard was able to convince him there was a way out besides losing to Sovereign.

We are not talking about Conrad Verner taking a stroll on the Derelict Reaper, we're talking about a human who's mind is so strong that it would take awhile to indoctrinate him, even if at full force.

As for the Council, they've already explained why they can't be as extremist as Shepard and rush off to battle or rush decisions. "Our decisions effect trillions.." The Turian, seems to just hate humans, which is not rare at all.(Well, it is in ME2 if your paragon)
The Indoctrination theory? Unlikely and based upon evidence that contradicts what BioWare tells us. And what BioWare tells us happens in this world, happens in this world.