117 réponses à ce sujet

[earthbornFemShep]

I, too, find Shepard becoming indoctrinated to be quite unlikely. As it has been said many times (and emphasized in ME1, especially by Benezia and on Virmire) indoctrination has several degrees. If done quickly, the victim becomes a husk. If done slowly, the victim remains his/her abilities but is under reaper control. In order to be indoctrinated, Shep must be in the vicinity of a reaper or the specific reaper technology that indoctrinates people. Shep spent no time in Sovereign, less than 30 minutes in the derelict reaper, and 15 minutes defeating a baby reaper.

At the end of ME1, Vigil says that it does NOT detect the taint of reaper indoctrination in Shepard or the squad. So, at the end of ME1 Shepard is not under any form of indoctrination.  Also, the Prothean beacons have nothing to do with indoctrination. I'm not sure why some people have insinuated that it does. Prothean beacons were created by the Protheans as a way to transmit emergency messages, they don't have anything to do with reapers.

In ME2, Shep was rebuilt by Cerberus using some reaper tech. However, I doubt Shep is a reaper or going to become indoctrinated just because of it.   I will give you that if Shepard was indoctrinated s/he wouldn't know it. Benezia herself said that she thought she was strong enough to withstand it and then it was too late. However, just because someone doesn't know they are indoctrinated doesn't mean they don't feel it when they are in the vicinity of indoctrination. I know that sounds a little goofy, but let me explain:

In all cases that we've heard about indoctrination, people have FELT it. Benezia, Cerberus crew on the reaper, Saren, Shiala, etc. all spoke of feeling pressure and pain in sneaking into their minds. They could feel it digging in, even if it was subtle.

Shepard has never hinted at feeling this.... if Shepard is indoctrinated, it will come out of left field. 

EDIT:   That is NOT to say that Shepard couldn't get indoctrinated in ME3.  However, as of right now, Shepard should not be indoctrinated.

Modifié par earthbornFemShep, 04 décembre 2010 - 04:03 .

[Spectre_907]

Not join. But I would prefer that depending on decisions you have made throughout the trilogy, there is an ending in which the Reapers actually win. Either this or some plot twist in which you discover something about the Reapers gives you the option of a "deal with the devil" thing.

[Sajuro]

Spectre_907 wrote...

Not join. But I would prefer that depending on decisions you have made throughout the trilogy, there is an ending in which the Reapers actually win. Either this or some plot twist in which you discover something about the Reapers gives you the option of a "deal with the devil" thing.

Like if you made any paragon desicion at all throughout the entire trilogy.
Blew the base? Reapers win
Saved the Council? Reapers win
Freed the Queen? Reapers win
Boost Patriarch's self esteem instead of letting him die? Reapers win.

[Zulu_DFA]

Shepard will be indoctrinated, and our old pal TIM will save him once more - thanks to the 'evil Cerberus experiments'. I kinda wonder, what the paragons will be saying then?

[Stephenc13]

I never thought about this.

I always thought that they'd collapse the planets the Reapers fly by. So the Reapers get sucked into a black hole field

[Sharn01]

In ME I rp'd my Shep and honorable and duty bound only to realize that I was apparently wrong and would join a terrrorist group before even attempting to use any other option let alone exhausting other options so, who knows, maybe Shep will join the Reapers in ME3.

But on a serious note, no, Shep wont join the Reapers.

Modifié par Sharn01, 04 décembre 2010 - 09:23 .

[Abrams216]

Reapers to Shepard:



Would you kindly...

[Nimrodell]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Shepard will be indoctrinated, and our old pal TIM will save him once more - thanks to the 'evil Cerberus experiments'. I kinda wonder, what the paragons will be saying then?

Ah this can be remedied easy thus even granting wish to so many people that wanted more different concequencies seen from prevoius choices... renegade gets saved by TIM and then kills him afterwards because TIM implanted him/her with cybernetics in the first place and paragon saves him/herself with a power of his/hers own clam mind - there's no emotion... there is peace ... Ah Zulu, you and your preconceptions. Being a renegade doesn't mean being a Cerberus, muppet , but keep pushing for the Cerberus campaign... maybe that way Cerberus gets a new Star Forge for renegades while paragons get only allies like fluffy bear man that have bows and arrows at their disposal . Ah I wish you'd loan me that time-travel machine of yours so I can see ME3 endings too, don't mind spoilers . You always put smile on my face and for that I thank you :happy:.

[Rivercurse]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I kinda wonder, what the paragons will be saying then?

"Thanks for having the technology needed to save my life, but you're still a ****."

[Soahfreako]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Shepard will be indoctrinated, and our old pal TIM will save him once more - thanks to the 'evil Cerberus experiments'. I kinda wonder, what the paragons will be saying then?

They'll wonder how you come up with this gibberish.

[Destroy Raiden_]

For OP

There is no evidence that a few hours worth of exposure over months would indoctrinate a person. The only one who knows this is the research girl on Virmire and last I met her she was not willing to go back into talking on the project it would be a third way to reincorporate her into 3 Shep or one of his/her crew members thinks they may be getting indoctrinated and ask to meet with her on the subject sense she is pretty much the only scientist left from Virmire who was working directly with this issue. Saren said by the time you realized you where being indoctrinated it was already too late he also mentioned knowing Sovereign was with him or at least linked up mentally with him. He said Sovereign sensed his uneasiness and then fused him with tech to strengthen him in ways Shep is like Saren not long after coming back I realized this both are estranged from the council, both are now half cyborg, and both died to me at least Saren looks already dead on Eden Prime he already has some cybernetics and compared to Nilius he looks very pale so I think they’ve also got the whole death and reborn thing in common too.

Its scary but personality wise I think Garrus more matches Saren I had a suspicion in one he could be like Saren but when he was on Omega and the way he behaved during the Sidonis mission further confirms to me anyway he could very easily moved to a Saren type of side if Shep is not there to keep him center. I think though indoctrination requires you to be within a reaper or near a dragon’s teeth for prolonged stretches of time and constantly all projects we find that have these two elements involved in them all ate, worked, and slept very near to where the research was taking place and it sounded like when speaking to Benezia within a week of constant exposure by living on the ship one could become indoctrinated. So in theory Shep and crew need to be captured on the ship for up to a week there is no telling how long Benezia lasted under indoctrination before succumbing but Saren most likely knew, Sovereign knew so he could’ve passed this info to other reapers for more stronger cases whatever time she had they’d most likely need at least that long for Shep.

I like the idea of sheps mental health eroding to a point but not so far shep willingly brings in the reapers. I would think obviously signs of stress in public more privately he/she would have more nightmares, and even small breakdowns possibly audio and visual hallucinations if Harbinger is in fact communicated telepathically with shep when he is in range. A few instances of visual hallucinations could actually add in mental horror aspects I do like how in Assassins Creed 3 how your character is doing this he see’s what would amount in our world as ghost but in his mind its simply replaying events that have already happened to his past relative who you get to be in the mind and body of via a machine called the Animus. So to your character all he’s seeing is what happened before when he was there and lived it via relative’s memory but he reacts and talks to some of it while npcs around him can become scared or angry and try to keep him focused.
 
If BW did not want to show hallucinations just showing gradual mental breakdowns could work too in Siren 9 of the 10 characters break down in game you get to see the slow progression first they’re terrified of being where they are and as the game goes on you see clear signs of stress, confusion, and finally mental unwellness one good character that illustrates this is the reporter she gets there gets separated from her camera crew tries to joke and reassure herself as the game wears on she becomes more unstable finally ending in her suicide others just go insane and kill other characters. Either scenario could be reemplamented in small ways in 3 but Shep still would need to beable to function and some how work through, work with it, or over come it by end game.

I’m not sure para shep would join up willingly for my shep at least it’d have to be a hacking attempt that would force physical compliance to their cause even if they held crewmembers hostage I’d say no to helping the reapers. Some rens might not go along with it either and sense some where forced to work for Cerberus repeating the feeling for the entire game would suck I could live with a chapter/episode or two but not long term.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 04 décembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[Archereon]

DeadlyParasite wrote...

corebit wrote...

Suron wrote...

sorry but your theory is not just stupid..but epic-stupid.....I don't even see how you could possibly come close to this "theory."

join the reapers? seriously? you really think 1. it's in any stretch of the imagination a good idea or 2. BioWare will end the trilogy in such a way? a way that totally ruins the universe they've created..

sorry but as I said..this "theory" is really stupid

Why is it stupid? Not every ending needs to be a happy one. This would be the perfect opportunity for Bioware to have a dark ending that is also quite fitting. Saving the galaxy is so cliche.

You'd be right, if it wasn't for the fact that EA and BioWare have come out and stated that more games in the Mass Effect series could and probably will be made.

Your theory conflicts with their considerations.

I also have to state that most authorities on literature these days agree that a tragedy is not automatically superior
to a comedy (in its classic meaning for a story with a happy ending.).  While pure "happily ever after" endings are frowned upon, there's nothing wrong with a story that doesn't end in utter disaster and ruin, too much of that gets plain depressing.

That said, a comedy is not automatically superior to a tragedy, sometimes dark, depressing endings work well.

(See: Starcraft, compare to Starcraft II)

[Nimrodell]

Ah 'tis Aristotle's poetics but ofc that tragedy is not superior to comedy, it's just how people perceive what is 'good' and 'realistic' ending. Take for instance Ibsen's Doll's House and two endings, original European one and the one made for USA... At the end of XIX century, Americans deemed that Nora's staying with her husband and children is actually happy ending while Europeans kept the original one in theaters... and it all happened in the wake of feminist movement.



Bottomline is - there are happy and good things in this life and there are also gruesome and sad things. One would have to be a sort of prophet to say which path or choice is actually the correct one (when it comes to pragmatism). But when it comes to games and stories, well, they are not just to be full of morals on life, they are meant for fun and enjoyment too, so it is good to have happy outcomes, nice things too in them and that doesn't make 'em lesser in any way. Shakespeare did write one Hamlet but also he wrote A Much Ado About Nothing and proved that there are both sides, sad and merry that can give you joy and catharsis... anyone claiming different is just selling something.



Tragic as well as happy endings are realistic because it happens all around us, and games are for fun - so players should treat the game as avatar of Leviathan in Hellraiser 1 would say - What is your pleasure, sir? And we do play for our pleasure, not for high philosophy .

[Pepper4]

o_O

[Zulu_DFA]

Soahfreako wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Shepard will be indoctrinated, and our old pal TIM will save him once more - thanks to the 'evil Cerberus experiments'. I kinda wonder, what the paragons will be saying then?

They'll wonder how you come up with this gibberish.

Books. Read them once in a while. (The one I have in mind here is Robert Heinlein's Puppet Masters.)

[Nimrodell]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Shepard will be indoctrinated, and our old pal TIM will save him once more - thanks to the 'evil Cerberus experiments'. I kinda wonder, what the paragons will be saying then?

They'll wonder how you come up with this gibberish.

Books. Read them once in a while. (The one I have in mind here is Robert Heinlein's Puppet Masters.)

Zulu, let's hope that BioWare won't be copy/pasting Heinlein all the way... after all, they may surprise even you at the end. I know, they were following Heinlein path pretty much so far, but still, we'll see, maybe there's some Gaiman or Philip K Dick fan among story designers among 'em... You know, dark future and all but still allowing actual ending that would at least make you smile... just hope they won't turn to Simmons and his Hyperion type of puzzled universe. Bah, we need more hanar and their hippy Enkindlers BS if you ask me, world is already to grim .

Btw, if we're going in those footsteps, TIM should be Shepard's father... that would be twist in the tale indeed hehe. Bah, tis late here, I'm off to sleep too much BS for today, already.

Modifié par Nimrodell, 04 décembre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Soldat13]

I don't have the time or patience to read all of the posts but here is what I think. There is three lifestyle choices for your Shepard. Earthborn, Colonial, and Military. With Earthborn and Colonial it is possible that he was altered by Reapers. How the hell did he hold back the Skylian Blitz single handedly? Also "... got a fire that make people want to follow you to hell..." possibly altered to gain subtle indoctrination of crew. But as with Miri she could have been a real bi*** with biotic powers avenging herself for the injustice she recieved but she uses her abilities to help others. You can decide to usher in the Reapers or to plant a huge fu**ing bomb and watch the Reapers burn. It would really suck if you had all of these choices to reach a locked conclusion.

[this isnt my name]

Soldat13 wrote...

I don't have the time or patience to read all of the posts but here is what I think. There is three lifestyle choices for your Shepard. Earthborn, Colonial, and Military. With Earthborn and Colonial it is possible that he was altered by Reapers. How the hell did he hold back the Skylian Blitz single handedly? Also "... got a fire that make people want to follow you to hell..." possibly altered to gain subtle indoctrination of crew. But as with Miri she could have been a real bi*** with biotic powers avenging herself for the injustice she recieved but she uses her abilities to help others. You can decide to usher in the Reapers or to plant a huge fu**ing bomb and watch the Reapers burn. It would really suck if you had all of these choices to reach a locked conclusion.

I dissagree with you. I want reapers to win, it dosent make my choices pointless, it was still fun to try.
Well before the game there was a book about halo reach, we learn from the book reach couldnt be saved, but I still had fun watching it all happen, it was a good game. I dont see an issue with reaper victories, it dosent make the choices meaningles, they mattered at the time, it depends if you play from your view orthe characters.

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Shepard will be indoctrinated, and our old pal TIM will save him once more - thanks to the 'evil Cerberus experiments'. I kinda wonder, what the paragons will be saying then?

 
"Boom Headshot"

[HolyJellyfish]

I think the concept would be intriguing. I'm under the impression that depending on your choices, you may or may not be indoctrinated. This would leave the story open for multiple endings to Shepard's story. A) He is an agent of the Reapers and takes control over everyone He dies saving the galaxy C) He restores intergalactic peace and lives to tell the tale, etc. etc. etc.



TIM, I keep assuming, is definitely an agent of the Reapers. He reminds me too much of Saren.

[Archereon]

"Shepard will join the Reapers in the End. "

Shepard: I have to stop the Reapers!

Reapers: No Shepard you are the Reapers!

And then Shepard was indoctrinated...



What?  It had to be said...

Modifié par Archereon, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Soldat13]

this isnt my name wrote...

I dissagree with you. I want reapers to win, it dosent make my choices pointless, it was still fun to try.
Well
before the game there was a book about halo reach, we learn from the
book reach couldnt be saved, but I still had fun watching it all happen,
it was a good game. I dont see an issue with reaper victories, it
dosent make the choices meaningles, they mattered at the time, it
depends if you play from your view orthe characters.

I am not saying they shouldn't win. But humans shouldn't just lose. What do you mean the characters view or mine. The characters view has become my view. I hate fate so why play a game that has fatalist elements? The decisions you make should determine the ending. Can Shepard stop the Reapers? That's up to you. Will you join the Reapers? Will the Reapers kill Shepard. Or will humanity conquer the Reapers and establish dominance among the council races. We all know the other races will not acknowledge the Reapers.

[LURadio]

Hurray for a post like this that I can chime in on

To be honest, there is two really good versions that people have written on here about things that they'd like to see in Mass Effect 3 story wise.  I've gotta say this though about Shepard being an eventual "unknowing" Reaper agent.  Now here is what my theory on that would be.  What I'm going to do is just leave points as to why he/she could be.

• While Shepard may not be around or in any Reaper long enough to be indoctrinated we know that she/he is infused with Reaper parts, is constantly in a ship that is running on Reaper technology, has shot through a Mass Relay that is only accessible through Reaper technology.
• Miranda's line that was brought up about "having the ability for people to follow you willingly into hell itself knowing that they may not return"
• Shepard is the only person who has come into contact with 4 Reapers:  Sovreign, the Direlict Reaper, and the Human Reaper and Indirect Contact with Harbinger and survived all the encounters.
• Saren had already been indoctrinated by Sovreign and managed to live through absorbing two Protheian becons and Shepard managed to absorb two beacons as well despite the fact that Liara speifically said that based on physiology and the fact those were meant for Protheian minds by all accounts abosrbing those beacons would "kill someone with a lesser mind"
• Legion is extremely fascinated with Commander Shepard and doesn't understand why he is 100% yet.

I'm sure there's more things I wanted to mention, I just didn't wanna keep writing.

[Destroy Raiden_]

^ With Legion are you suggesting that Shepard is somehow influencing him? Similar to how the Consort seems to be able to influence not only her staff but visitors? Legion is a unique construct he said so far he's the only one now its most likely bound to change in 3 but I think its possible the Geth knowing the Heretics where more or less easily swayed by the reapers may have put in some type of defense for it.



Shep on sidemission in 2 has come into contact with a 3rd beacon I've noticed the recovery time per beacon is getting shorter.



Your theory on both shep and the ship acting as their own forms of reaper indoctrination devices is interesting but wouldn't the crew be suffering delusions or memory sharing by now?



I don't know how many of you have seen the new battle star galactic but the human cylons seem to act on a switch over mechanic. They think they're human they have past lives the cylons gave them and so they see themselves as no different to their human coworkers but then they blackout this is the point where the cylon part of them takes over and does something. In the case of a character named Boomer she was a trusted pilot for the fleet she starts experiencing blackouts her cylon self sabotages things in the fleet then she or her human mind wakes up and is confused and doesn't remember what happened its only midway through the series that she becomes aware of what she is and later seeks to actively start to change it my point being would anyone like or hate this type of action from Shep we'd still be playing as him/her but once the blackout parts happen and reaper tech takes over we'd be doing the objective of the enemy as apposed to what our sheps may/maynot want to do.

[Rekkampum]

I think this theory only makes sense if the technology used to revive Shepard was based on Reaper tech.