146 réponses à ce sujet

[HarnessedYeti]

To clarify, I'm not meaning completely scrap it, as in how they threw away getting any kind of interesting loot, but make it so thats not the only choice you have. It gets stale being pigeon holed into that one style. This is not COD, this isn't a realistic shooter. It's a space opera, and for that matter the poor mans Star Wars.



Not meaning to sound like a troll, but really, it should feel optional, like other games, Fallout 3 for example, sure you can take cover behind stuff. You really can take cover in any kind of shooter. This feels different.

[Lord Exar]

I just tried out the Battlefield Bad Company 2 demo and I think the OP should go play that. You can't go prone and most things are destructible. Never have to worry about cover again.

[ImperialOperative]

For example:

Look at the direction SWTOR istaking.  The combat looks very familiar to anybody who has played WoW,yet it looks to have it's own unique style.  Main focus is on making itas smooth as possible.  Polish is one of the most important aspects of gameplay, becauyse a choppy game really takes a toll on the fun you could otherwise be having.

AoC isa perfect example of shoddy innovation.  Sure it's not just popping acooldown, you just put an annoying sequence of buttons before hittingthe cooldown.  Not only that but in trying to "reinvent" thewheel they ended up forgetting to add polish and make the combatsmooth.  Turned out to be a garbage game for anything other than
slowpaced PvE.

Modifié par ImperialOperative, 24 février 2010 - 05:40 .

[Yorick of the Damned]

HarnessedYeti wrote...

To clarify, I'm not meaning completely scrap it, as in how they threw away getting any kind of interesting loot, but make it so thats not the only choice you have. It gets stale being pigeon holed into that one style. This is not COD, this isn't a realistic shooter. It's a space opera, and for that matter the poor mans Star Wars.

Not meaning to sound like a troll, but really, it should feel optional, like other games, Fallout 3 for example, sure you can take cover behind stuff. You really can take cover in any kind of shooter. This feels different.

Mass Effect 1 never had interesting loot. It was just the same old crap over and over again, just with different stats.

Call of Duty employs a crouch to cover system doesn't it? It doesn't have anything to do with Mass Effect other then it's popularity on the 360. 

It is optional not to use cover. You could just stand out there pelting bullets at your enemies while they intelligently use cover and shoot at you.

[tommythetomcat]

Lord Exar wrote...

I just tried out the Battlefield Bad Company 2 demo and I think the OP should go play that. You can't go prone and most things are destructible. Never have to worry about cover again.

You don't need cover just an endless stream of turret fire is all the cover you need.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

HarnessedYeti wrote...

I for one think so. It's trite, tired and cliched. For all
ME's strengths, this just about breaks the game for me. It
would probably make the level design feel more natural since
they wouldn't constantly be having to make sure that you've got a
crate or desk to duck behind every ten feet.

Was this some higher ups bright idea that this go in and stay in for all
three games or something?

It just does not go with the rest of the game. Period.

My Trollie sense is tingling.

However if you are serious, Mass Effect was designed to be a squad based 3rd person shooter, the game simply wouldnt work without a cover mechanic.

So my question is (provided that you arent a troll) is what do you propose they should do if they did remove the cover system?

The only way they could do this is if they changed the type of game ME is.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Actually even though this thread is most likely a troll thread it does give me a good idea for a gameplay mechanic.

[Chuvvy]

Yes,let's turn it into an FPS and make it even more casual. **** skill systems,dialog and story.

[HarnessedYeti]

Bring back crouch. Re-do the levels.



And for that matter make it completely open and add a day/night cycle. That's all I ask.

[Yorick of the Damned]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Actually even though this thread is most likely a troll thread it does give me a good idea for a gameplay mechanic.

Who cares if it's a troll thread? It prevents people from making stupid comments if they already see we posted everything about it already.

[tommythetomcat]

Slidell505 wrote...

Yes,let's turn it into an FPS and make it even more casual. **** skill systems,dialog and story.

I'll see that and raise you a ****/zombie killing.  Always a good time.

[HarnessedYeti]

Seriously, not a troll thread. The last post was a joke, all except

the remark about bringing back crouch. If they did that the whole cover mechanic I could

live with.

[Lmaoboat]

What they need to get rid if is all the times you go, "GEE, LOOK AT THIS NICE LARGE ROOM FULL OF INNOCUOUS WAIST HIGH WALLS, I SURE HOPE NOTHING BAD HAPPENS.

[HarnessedYeti]

Slidell505 wrote...

Yes,let's turn it into an FPS and make it even more casual. **** skill systems,dialog and story.

That's the complete 180 degree opposite of what I want.  I would almost take turn based combat over
the cover system.

[Yorick of the Damned]

HarnessedYeti wrote...

Seriously, not a troll thread. The last post was a joke, all except

Yes it's definantly not a troll thread after that

[Destructo-Bot]

The levels need better flow and integration with cover. Entering a room and seeing obvious cover distributed throughout the room is pretty jarring.

[Jon Phoenix]

I thought they pulled off cover better in the first game than the second. Pressing A to enter cover was a step back from the sticky cover used in the first one. Using A just makes it more like GoW (but with less context specific moves). They already had vault in the original, it was just limited in scope. All they needed to do was increase the context where vault was an option (and get rid of the notification in the process).



Overall the more common head high cover in the original seemed better than forever crouching everywhere behind waist high cover that lets you target everyone on the battlefield as soon as they pop up. Waist high cover really breaks the immersion, also it means that most of the time moving is unnecessary. That being said Mass Effect needs cover, though I preferred the original style where being out of cover didn't get you dead straight away (another bad step towards Gears of War). There is something about being able to take it to the enemy ala a sort of invincibility that Shepard used to have that no longer exists.



One thing for Mass Effect 2 is that made superior use of the y-axis rather than everything being fought on the same plane.

[HarnessedYeti]

Every mission :

Ok, this guys wounded, maybe I should talk to him

Now, everybody take cover and do this about 500 times till

the next dude we talk to.

Whats this...a named NPC thats stronger than the others at the end of this crate factory? Take him down.

Lets go flip those three switches that do.....something....and while were at it

take cover again because everytime I flip a switch, it seems to be the signal to release another

swarm of (put generic bad guy group name here).

You wanted to run back to a room you were in and look at something? Sorry, every so often a door slams shut behind you to ensure you'll continue to ....(go back to the top of this post)

That in a nut shell is Biowares level design.

[OneDrunkMonk]

First of all I think a cover system is just about mandatory these days for a first or 3rd person shooter. One should be able to move quickly in and out of cover to fire a few shots and return to cover as needed. Blind fire would be nice as well as the ability to provide "cover" for squad mates as they move to a better position. I kinda like the ability to crouch behind cover as in the first game, I should be able to crouch and shoot at will.

[LoweGear]

I wouldn't want to have the cover-based combat removed: Given that IRL cover is the number one combat consideration trained into frontline infantry, it would make sense for firefights to make extensive use of cover.
However, it's not like the cover system can't be improved upon though:

1. As already mentioned, many environments seem particularly designed around  combat and combat only - you know you're going to engage in combat when you see environments with lots of waist-high crates. There are levels where the rooms provide cover without looking like crate fests (like cafeterias) but some more creative level design would be appreciated, like variable height or oddly shaped cover, and the use of corners for cover.

2. Make cover not invincible. The idea of destructible cover is under utilized in Mass Effect 2 to just clearly labelled destructible crates, and despite the power of your weapons weapon penetration through cover is nonexistent. Many shooter titles have done worse to be sure, but a more dynamic cover system would be appreciated, like quantitively more but less obvious destructible cover, and even cover with differing defenses, i.e. some cover are more resistant than others. Also, the bullet penetration system used in most games would give combat a whole new meaning in ME, since you'd want to actually keep moving to avoid enemies with cover penetrating weapons, and combined with the destructible cover system would make sure you can't stick to a single piece of cover for too long. There would still be invincible cover for sure since you can't make every single piece of cover destructible (unless your game is called Red Faction), but these invincible cover would be placed at areas that would require you to either wade through enemy fire, or put you in a tactically disadvantageous position. 

3. Make cover actually conceal you and your enemies. It's hard to use cover for stealth in ME when your enemies already know where you are even after you go out of Tactical Cloak.

These are some ideas that would make the cover system more interesting, and it's not as if they're untested since many of them are already in use in many other games.

Modifié par LoweGear, 24 février 2010 - 06:11 .

[HarnessedYeti]

LoweGear wrote...
1. As already mentioned, many environments seem particularly designed around  combat and combat only - you know you're going to engage in combat when you see environments with lots of waist-high crates. There are levels where the rooms provide cover without looking like crate fests (like cafeterias) but some more creative level design would be appreciated, like variable height or oddly shaped cover, and the use of corners for cover.

These are some ideas that would make the cover system more interesting, and it's not as if they're untested since many of them are already in use in many other games.

Exactly. As it is it's just stiff and not that interesting.

[Seanylegit]

I'm all for the cover system, my only hope would that they make it seem more natural in ME3. There's an awful lot of crates in ME universe. lol

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

HarnessedYeti wrote...

I for one think so. It's trite, tired and cliched. For all
ME's strengths, this just about breaks the game for me. It
would probably make the level design feel more natural since
they wouldn't constantly be having to make sure that you've got a
crate or desk to duck behind every ten feet.

Was this some higher ups bright idea that this go in and stay in for all
three games or something?

It just does not go with the rest of the game. Period.

I'd be ok with the cover system if it didn't make upcoming battle scenes so damn predictable. I'd like for the occasional unexpected foe to emerge in a place without cover. Sure you'd be exposed, but if it were only one or two light enemies (like LOKI mechs) you and your squadmates could still defeat them even without cover.

The problem now is that because every battle is pretty much you versus many many foes, you need cover or you're dead, but of course that makes combat scenes very easy to anticipate (as if the music changing weren't already obvious enough). If Bioware could mix it up with more spontaneous combat like the occasional LOKI mech or merc trooper in a no-cover zone it'd make for more exciting gameplay.

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 24 février 2010 - 06:30 .

[Qwepir]

You darn kids and your newfangled cover "systems." Back in my day, cover was going behind a burned out tank and crouching. We had to actually expose ourselves to see if we were in danger.

[Pocketgb]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

However, if they can make the battle sights a little less obvious when you enter them, that'll be great.

Not only that, but if combat wasn't designed in such big "chunks": having a stand-off between a horde of baddies is indeed pretty cool, but it's also pretty tense to be going down a coverless hallway to run into a few seperated Krogan Warriors.