515 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote...

The funny thing is that I beat Cauthrien on my first try. I didn't even know about the Captured quest until later. I think that it's false to assume that Captured is intended to be the only result. Sure the devs tipped the odds in that direction, but the fight is cearly winnable even on a first run by a guy who plays mostly for fun.

Actually given that this is one of the few fights which won't end the game if you TPK and given the way that Bioware makes characters (or more to the point fails to make effective characters) and given that the designers clearly assume you will be fighting in the Foyer, I do think that Bioware never intended you to be able to win this fight.

You can of course (I do) and you can quite easily with some builds and tactics, but I am very sure that wasn't what Bioware had in mind.  Still doesn't change my mind about Anora though.

-Polaris

[voidwarrior]

If you are playing as a human noble calling off the rescue is just not an option. I wanted to kill that sniveling rat Howe from the very start of the game. To serve my Queen and kill that m-f Howe I would have gladly forfeit my PC's life. He died far too quickly, I wanted to thrust my sword upwards into his solar plexus then twist, watch the fear in his eyes as his life ebbed away. Oh to savour that moment and feast on his fear.



IanPolaris stated "as a PC you CAN bypass the Foyer and backtrack through the Dungeon and avoid Cauthrien and come back the way you came ... " Not in my version of the game, I tried this just recently and it is not possible. Plus Queen Anora followed me when I attempted it.



Long live Queen Anora The Great. May she return in the Awakening more powerful than ever and crush her enemies. I am the sword of her will.

[IanPolaris]

voidwarrior wrote...

If you are playing as a human noble calling off the rescue is just not an option. I wanted to kill that sniveling rat Howe from the very start of the game. To serve my Queen and kill that m-f Howe I would have gladly forfeit my PC's life. He died far too quickly, I wanted to thrust my sword upwards into his solar plexus then twist, watch the fear in his eyes as his life ebbed away. Oh to savour that moment and feast on his fear.

You even mention revenge to Erlina at the front gates and she begs you not to put your desire for personal revenge over rescuing the Queen and Erlina is right.  When the door is found to be warded and a clean getaway is no longer possible, then getting out of dodge for most rational people most certainly IS an option, human noble or no!  The Queen lies to you when you suggest it, however.

IanPolaris stated "as a PC you CAN bypass the Foyer and backtrack through the Dungeon and avoid Cauthrien and come back the way you came ... " Not in my version of the game, I tried this just recently and it is not possible. Plus Queen Anora followed me when I attempted it.

Bollocks.  It is possible.  You go back through the Arl's Bedroom, go into the Dungeon and then take the other exit out (that Howe's master key now opens).  You will exit on the other side of the Foyer.  You WILL have to fight off all of Howe's men if you do this, but you CAN do it.  However, Anora WILL NOT FOLLOW YOU into the Dungeon.

I know what I am talking about here.  It's  a definate hole in the game.

Long live Queen Anora The Great. May she return in the Awakening more powerful than ever and crush her enemies. I am the sword of her will.

Queen Anora is a double-crossing rat.  The evidence for this is overwhelming.

-Polaris

[AlanC9]

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote...

The funny thing is that I beat Cauthrien on my first try. I didn't even know about the Captured quest until later. I think that it's false to assume that Captured is intended to be the only result. Sure the devs tipped the odds in that direction, but the fight is cearly winnable even on a first run by a guy who plays mostly for fun.

Out of curiosity, what level, class, party, and difficulty level were you playing at? I found the fight fairly difficult at Hard  with a low-level party (even if it scales, low level means you don't have much crowd control).

Edit: though that's got something to do with my absolute refusal to use certain cheese tactics.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 mars 2010 - 07:27 .

[Realmzmaster]

The other question is did you fight her and her men in the foyer?

[Realmzmaster]

One interesting point, why was Erlina allowed to leave if she was with Queen Anora? If she was not with Anora,(which I find curious because hand maidens always accompanied their queen), I assume she knew where Anora had ventured. Did she act as one of the servants to gain entrance to the estate and find Anora. (Perhaps). She could then ask the other elves where the queen was located.

Erlina runs to Eamon's estate with the information of the queen's imprisonment. The warden in disguise gets to the queen's room . Amazingly there is now a door ward on the door. The only door ward that seems to be in the entire game, except for the door in elven tomb. Must be the magic of Bioware again, because this spell is nowhere in the spell lines. Must be old magic like the Dark Ritual.

Still does not explain why Ser Cauthrien is arresting the warden for Howe's murder.

Also Ser Cauthrien could arrest the warden the minute he/she leaves Arl Eamon's estate.



The warden is forced to enter the dungeon and confront Howe, because the mage that cast the spell is with him.

I can see if the mage who cast the spell was of a higher level than the party's mage the door ward could not be removed by dispel magic or glyph of neutralization. But that does not take into account a templar's Cleanse Area.

I can only say the warden is being railroaded into the Captured quest. Bioware probably did not think most of the parties would have a chance of defeating Cauthrien. And if you fight Cauthrien in the foyer this assumption is not too far off. This is the reason you are not killed (your journey does not end), but wake up in prison.

If you did beat Cauthrien and party then of course the warden should be allowed to walk out the front door. Whose left to stop him/her?

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

AlanC9 wrote...

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote...

The funny thing is that I beat Cauthrien on my first try. I didn't even know about the Captured quest until later. I think that it's false to assume that Captured is intended to be the only result. Sure the devs tipped the odds in that direction, but the fight is cearly winnable even on a first run by a guy who plays mostly for fun.

Out of curiosity, what level, class, party, and difficulty level were you playing at? I found the fight fairly difficult at Hard  with a low-level party (even if it scales, low level means you don't have much crowd control).

Edit: though that's got something to do with my absolute refusal to use certain cheese tactics.

I'll have to double check, but difficulty was Normal, level was around 19 or 20 I think, and party was PC Arcane Warrior (so-so build), Wynne, Alistair, and Leliana.  I seem to remember using Revive at least twice in that fight ... so it was no cakewalk.  I didn't use any of those tactics like luring Ser Cauthrien out or anything ... just straightforward attack.  Lots of Fireballs (from the AW - knock the archers down) & Cone of Cold (Wynne freeze the masses).  I'm pretty sure that I used Force Field on Ser Cauthrien once or twice as well.  The game was unpatched & run on the PC.

That playthrough was one reason I rarely use two or more mages in a party anymore.  These days I tend to play on Hard & am fully patched.  I just beat Ser Cauthrien again on that difficutly with another Arcane Warrior ... honestly I had to use 5 or 6 potions to win that time & my PC was the last man standing in the room when it was all said & done.

[Helios969]

IanPolaris wrote...

Long live Queen Anora The Great. May she return in the Awakening more powerful than ever and crush her enemies. I am the sword of her will.

Queen Anora is a double-crossing rat.  The evidence for this is overwhelming.

-Polaris

It might be if anything you've said so far could be construed as evidence.  All I've seen are paragraphs and paragraphs of supposition and conjecture.  You can use buzz words like rational and logical and reasonable, it doesn't make your argument a sound one.  The fundamental problem with this argument as a whole - on both sides - is that there isn't a reasonable amount of evidence.  If there was, the discussion would have been a short one.  Anora is mostly open to interpretation, and her motives are largely her own.  Our interactions with her are very limited, and most of the information comes second hand.  We are not privy to the thoughts in her head.  

For whatever reason, people seem to either adore her or despise her - leaving little space for a middle of the road interpretation.  And it's quite clear where you stand, the one thing you have proven beyond any doubt.  Since the vast majority of these characters possess both positive and negative traits, based to some degree on the real world, it's much more reasonable to assume she is neither good, nor evil.  Our perceptions, prejudices, experiences, and opinions determine how we interpret a given personality type.  That's rational, reasonable, and logical.

[KendallX23]

Helios969 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Long live Queen Anora The Great. May she return in the Awakening more powerful than ever and crush her enemies. I am the sword of her will.

Queen Anora is a double-crossing rat.  The evidence for this is overwhelming.

-Polaris

It might be if anything you've said so far could be construed as evidence.  All I've seen are paragraphs and paragraphs of supposition and conjecture.  You can use buzz words like rational and logical and reasonable, it doesn't make your argument a sound one.  The fundamental problem with this argument as a whole - on both sides - is that there isn't a reasonable amount of evidence.  If there was, the discussion would have been a short one.  Anora is mostly open to interpretation, and her motives are largely her own.  Our interactions with her are very limited, and most of the information comes second hand.  We are not privy to the thoughts in her head.  

For whatever reason, people seem to either adore her or despise her - leaving little space for a middle of the road interpretation.  And it's quite clear where you stand, the one thing you have proven beyond any doubt.  Since the vast majority of these characters possess both positive and negative traits, based to some degree on the real world, it's much more reasonable to assume she is neither good, nor evil.  Our perceptions, prejudices, experiences, and opinions determine how we interpret a given personality type.  That's rational, reasonable, and logical.

            Now this is what i call a good post.....Anora's moves are left to interpretation...she never betrayed me..and she seems quite friendly to me...even after i kill her father(though that is just gameplay behaviour)...there is no real proof...we all make suppositions...i guess we will never know the whole truth...

[IanPolaris]

Helios969 wrote...


It might be if anything you've said so far could be construed as evidence.  All I've seen are paragraphs and paragraphs of supposition and conjecture.  You can use buzz words like rational and logical and reasonable, it doesn't make your argument a sound one.  The fundamental problem with this argument as a whole - on both sides - is that there isn't a reasonable amount of evidence.  If there was, the discussion would have been a short one.  Anora is mostly open to interpretation, and her motives are largely her own.  Our interactions with her are very limited, and most of the information comes second hand.  We are not privy to the thoughts in her head.  

For whatever reason, people seem to either adore her or despise her - leaving little space for a middle of the road interpretation.  And it's quite clear where you stand, the one thing you have proven beyond any doubt.  Since the vast majority of these characters possess both positive and negative traits, based to some degree on the real world, it's much more reasonable to assume she is neither good, nor evil.  Our perceptions, prejudices, experiences, and opinions determine how we interpret a given personality type.  That's rational, reasonable, and logical.

Actually I have presented reasonably, logical evidence that the only possible way that Ser Cauthrien could be where she was, when she was, and with the information she had was by Anora betraying you.

You simply don't want to accept what the facts are telling you.

1.  The Arl's men do not know you are there and no alarm is ever raised (assuming you are careful and use disguises).  Given that Arl Howe is Logain's spymaster, that precludes the notion that you were ratted out by Logain spies since otherwise Arl Howe would have been the first to know.

2.  Even after you kill Howe, you can avoid all futher confrontation with Howe's guards all the way until you meet Ser Cauthrien, and it's clear when you come back upstairs that no castle alert has yet been raised.  That means you weren't recongized randomly becuase if you were, the person would immediately alert the castle guard to swarm you which does happen if you either don't use a disguise or trip up the alarm somehow when you are in the castle.

3.  From the time that you fight your FIRST fight to the time you face Ser Cauthrien, less than 20 minutes elapses.  That's plenty of time in the 21st century, but (read the Codes on the Cardinal Rules of Magic) in the Midaeval World of Fereldan that's an impossible response time especially if you have to gather the forces Ser Cauthrien has.

As Sherlock Holmes once said, once you eliminate the impossible, what is left however improbable has to be the truth.  In this case there is only one person who had the possible motive, methode, and most importantly opportunity to give Ser Cauthrien the information she had and arrange for her to be there when she was.

That person is Queen Anora.  This is logic in action rather than finding excuses for Queen Anora like some of you are trying to do.

-Polaris

[mousestalker]

Time to fisk.

IanPolaris wrote...
Actually I have presented reasonably, logical evidence that the only possible way that Ser Cauthrien could be where she was, when she was, and with the information she had was by Anora betraying you.

You simply don't want to accept what the facts are telling you.

1.  The Arl's men do not know you are there and no alarm is ever raised (assuming you are careful and use disguises).  Given that Arl Howe is Logain's spymaster, that precludes the notion that you were ratted out by Logain spies since otherwise Arl Howe would have been the first to know.

That is of course assuming that the game shows everyone in the palace. Every time I've ever visited the Arl of Denerim's palace there have been servants that do not react to your presence in any way. Also, we know from the Dalish origin and Ostagar that there are magical means of communication. That the PC never gets to use them does not mean that they are not used. One really good time to use magical communication would be when Arl Howe is attacked.

2.  Even after you kill Howe, you can avoid all futher confrontation with Howe's guards all the way until you meet Ser Cauthrien, and it's clear when you come back upstairs that no castle alert has yet been raised.  That means you weren't recongized randomly becuase if you were, the person would immediately alert the castle guard to swarm you which does happen if you either don't use a disguise or trip up the alarm somehow when you are in the castle.

This depends upon who is doing the alerting. If you are one of the old Arl's servants you likely wouldn't object to the demise of so many guards. If Loghain or one of Loghains' agents is paying you, you might let your second employer know.

3.  From the time that you fight your FIRST fight to the time you face Ser Cauthrien, less than 20 minutes elapses.  That's plenty of time in the 21st century, but (read the Codes on the Cardinal Rules of Magic) in the Midaeval World of Fereldan that's an impossible response time especially if you have to gather the forces Ser Cauthrien has.

You are assuming that play time = time in the game world. By that logic it takes 25 seconds to get from Highever to Ostagar. To be less silly, there are stairs in the Arl's palace that we skip descending in game play. This is a not a hyper-realistic game. If it were, there would be rushes on the floors, lots more rooms in the palaces and chamber pots.

As Sherlock Holmes once said, once you eliminate the impossible, what is left however improbable has to be the truth.  In this case there is only one person who had the possible motive, methode, and most importantly opportunity to give Ser Cauthrien the information she had and arrange for her to be there when she was.

That person is Queen Anora.  This is logic in action rather than finding excuses for Queen Anora like some of you are trying to do.

-Polaris

Not everything our characters do is depicted in game. Much is skipped over. We know that our PC and the companions do guard duty every night. We never see that in play. Denerim is supposed to be a vast city, yet we only see a few neighbourhoods.

We simply lack the evidence to state conclusively what happens leading up to that confrontation. Your scenario may appear to you to be the most probable, but it is far from the only possible explanation.

[IanPolaris]

Time to Fisk the Fisk (again you are looking for excuses for Anora):

mousestalker wrote...

Time to fisk.

IanPolaris wrote...
Actually I have presented reasonably, logical evidence that the only possible way that Ser Cauthrien could be where she was, when she was, and with the information she had was by Anora betraying you.

You simply don't want to accept what the facts are telling you.

1.  The Arl's men do not know you are there and no alarm is ever raised (assuming you are careful and use disguises).  Given that Arl Howe is Logain's spymaster, that precludes the notion that you were ratted out by Logain spies since otherwise Arl Howe would have been the first to know.

That is of course assuming that the game shows everyone in the palace. Every time I've ever visited the Arl of Denerim's palace there have been servants that do not react to your presence in any way. Also, we know from the Dalish origin and Ostagar that there are magical means of communication. That the PC never gets to use them does not mean that they are not used. One really good time to use magical communication would be when Arl Howe is attacked.

If you read the Codex on the Cardinal Laws of Magic, while magical communication is possible, instantaneous travel and communication by magic is NOT.  There are no magic cell phones in Fereldan.  That means that even IF someone saw you, they could not possible get to Ser Cauthrien and then have her assemble the forces she has in time....and even if she did, she could not possibly know that you murdered Arl Howe since at the time you might have been spotted this simply hasn't happened yet.

This is logical so your fisk fails.

2.  Even after you kill Howe, you can avoid all futher confrontation with Howe's guards all the way until you meet Ser Cauthrien, and it's clear when you come back upstairs that no castle alert has yet been raised.  That means you weren't recongized randomly becuase if you were, the person would immediately alert the castle guard to swarm you which does happen if you either don't use a disguise or trip up the alarm somehow when you are in the castle.

This depends upon who is doing the alerting. If you are one of the old Arl's servants you likely wouldn't object to the demise of so many guards. If Loghain or one of Loghains' agents is paying you, you might let your second employer know.

Again your fisk fails.  It's a timing issue.  Remember there are no magical cell phones in Fereldan (and even if there were, Castle servants certainly wouldn't have them).  The fact is you CAN blow your cover with the servants and they do alert the guard.....and even if they did not, there is no way even if you were spotted immediately that they could tell Ser Cauthrien in time to assemble when and where she does and she certainly would not know you killed the Arl since the servants that supposedly would have told her you were there couldn't know that (since you hadn't done it yet when you entered).

3.  From the time that you fight your FIRST fight to the time you face Ser Cauthrien, less than 20 minutes elapses.  That's plenty of time in the 21st century, but (read the Codes on the Cardinal Rules of Magic) in the Midaeval World of Fereldan that's an impossible response time especially if you have to gather the forces Ser Cauthrien has.

You are assuming that play time = time in the game world. By that logic it takes 25 seconds to get from Highever to Ostagar. To be less silly, there are stairs in the Arl's palace that we skip descending in game play. This is a not a hyper-realistic game. If it were, there would be rushes on the floors, lots more rooms in the palaces and chamber pots.

The entire time in Howe's estate is done in tactical "real-time" which means that the time ratio is one to one.  You know this.  Again your fisk fails.

As Sherlock Holmes once said, once you eliminate the impossible, what is left however improbable has to be the truth.  In this case there is only one person who had the possible motive, methode, and most importantly opportunity to give Ser Cauthrien the information she had and arrange for her to be there when she was.

That person is Queen Anora.  This is logic in action rather than finding excuses for Queen Anora like some of you are trying to do.

-Polaris

Not everything our characters do is depicted in game. Much is skipped over. We know that our PC and the companions do guard duty every night. We never see that in play. Denerim is supposed to be a vast city, yet we only see a few neighbourhoods.

We simply lack the evidence to state conclusively what happens leading up to that confrontation. Your scenario may appear to you to be the most probable, but it is far from the only possible explanation.

Again, using the game and the information in it, I have proven my case.  Ser Cauthrien has information that only Anora could give her and her presence with that information can only be explained if someone fed her inside information.  The ONLY person with access to that information and a way to deliver it (via maid) is Queen Anora.

Why do some of you deny what is absolutely as plain as day?  Queen Anora backstabbed you during her so-called rescue attempt.

-Polaris

[mousestalker]

What about stairwells? Or are you just going to ignore them?



They can be slippery things, after all.

[IanPolaris]

mousestalker wrote...

What about stairwells? Or are you just going to ignore them?

They can be slippery things, after all.

Stairwells have nothing to do with the discussion.

-Polaris

[mousestalker]

Sure they do. Travel up and down stairs is not shown in game. It definitely happens at the Arl of Denerim's palace.
As for communication by magical means, here's the quote from the codex:

"You must not be under the misimpression that magic is all-powerful. There are limits, and not even the greatest mages may overcome them.
No one, for instance, has found any means of traveling-either over great distances or small ones-beyond putting one foot in front of the other. The immutable nature of the physical world prevents this. So no, you may not simply pop over to Minrathous to borrow a cup of sugar, nor may you magic the essay you "forgot" in the apprentice dormitory to your desk. You will simply have to be prepared.
Similarly, even when you send your mind into the Fade, your body remains behind. Only once has this barrier been overcome, and reputedly the spell required two-thirds of the lyrium in the Tevinter Imperium as well as the lifeblood of several hundred slaves. The results were utterly disastrous.
Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality.
--From The Lectures of First Enchanter Wenselus."

Explain to us where it says magical communications can not be instantaneous (just fyi, cell phone conversations are not instantaneous). Teleportation isn't possible, according to that author. But communications? I can can think of several ways of sending an alarm via magic.

Modifié par mousestalker, 03 mars 2010 - 09:49 .

[IanPolaris]

Mousetalker,

If you can't have magical teleportation then you can't have magical instaneous communication either since as the quoted material says, no one has found a way to go faster than putting one foot in front of the other. Indeed, the communication lag is very important are else armies would not need to use foot messengers which they clearly do.

Even IF there were ways to magically communicate instantaneously (or effectively so) you would NOT see it in the hands of castle servants. Too many other things in the game break if you assume instant magical communication.

As for travel up and down stairs, yes it is shown or are you playing a different Arl Howe estate than I am? You clearly are shown going up and down stairs.

Again your criticism fails the smell test.

Why are you trying to defend Anora? Let me put it another way: For her NOT to have backstabbed you requires a complexity of auspicious events, great guessing, and plotholes that is beyond all reasonable complexity. At this point I can rightly appeal to Occam's Razor as well as simple logical reasoning.

The simpliest (and correct) solution is that Anora stabbed you in the back.

-Polaris

FYI: In the real world all information flow is restricted to the speed of light, but that is effectively instantaneous for a setting as small as our globe...if you REALLY want to get into a technical shouting match about it.  The point remains that there is no evidence that instantaneous magical communication exists and plenty that it can not including the Codex you quoted.  In addition, if instaneous magical communication existed, there is no way that Uldred could have lied to Irving and the rest of the senior enchanters about Ostagar (which he was able to do) since Wynne and other survivers could have told Irving the truth almost instantly if such communications existed (such would almost certainly be available to circle mages of senior enchanter rank).

Modifié par IanPolaris, 03 mars 2010 - 09:58 .

[mousestalker]

Also, what makes you believe that play time is equal to the time experienced by our characters in the palace? I've seen no evidence to indicate that.

[mousestalker]

You are shown going up and down ramps. Yet the area doorways show circular stairs. There are obviously mixed forms of movement (stairs and ramps). Further there is one stairwell where there are no ramps.

As for instantaneous, matter does not have to move to have communication. On the basic level, if you send a stream of fire into the air via magic, that can be communication. There is also the magic mirror in the Dalish origin, which is clearly part of an old Tevinter communication system. It says so, explicitly, in game. Morrigan supplies her love interest with a ring which she states, quite clearly, she can use to track her beloved. That is communication.

We know that there are spells not used by player characters and companions that are known in game. Wynne never casts a magical barrier for you, but she has one when you meet her in the tower. It is not beyond the realm of possibility, and seems to me quite likely, that a mage could trigger an alarm at another location. Likewise, a magical device could be linked to the life signs of another person. So, for example, if the pearl goes from white to black, Arl Howe is dead.

Isn't magic fun?

Modifié par mousestalker, 03 mars 2010 - 10:03 .

[IanPolaris]

mousestalker wrote...

Also, what makes you believe that play time is equal to the time experienced by our characters in the palace? I've seen no evidence to indicate that.

The evidence is right in front of your nose.  The entire time in the Arl's estate is done in tactical battle-mode.  Conversations are clearly heard in real time, and porportions are not altered or stretched in any way (and match fairly well with actual midaeval style manor houses....well done BW on that one btw). 

The only time you really get time compression is when you go from area to area but that doesn't happen in the Arl Howe estate.  [The only transition is from the Upper Floor to the Lower floor, but the geography is uncut so there is no evidence for ANY time compression there].  Likewise the fact that the guards have not sounted the alert on the upper floor (allowing you to avoid them) even after you kill Arl Howe argues that the time ratio is 1:1.

The evidence is overwhelming and damning.

-polaris

[mousestalker]

If it were done in real time, then we would have no loading screens. And yet we do.

[IanPolaris]

mousestalker wrote...

You are shown going up and down ramps. Yet the area doorways show circular stairs. There are obviously mixed forms of movement (stairs and ramps). Further there is one stairwell where there are no ramps.

The evidence from timing and reaction alone is against you unless you want to postulate 100ft tall ramps.

No?  Then conceded the point and move on.

As for instantanrous, matter does not have to move to have communication. On the basic level, if you send a stream of fire into the air via magic, that can be communication. There is also the magic mirror in the Dalish origin, which is clearly part of an old Tevinter communication system. It syas so, explicitly, in game. Morrigan supplies her love interest with a ring which she states, quite clearly, she can use to track her beloved. That is communication.

Actually as a physcist you are wrong.  All communication involves a transfer of energy somewhere which is why IRL no communication can exceed the speed of light.  There is also NO EVIDENCE that any of these magical forms of communication are in evidence at the estate.  As for Morrigan's ring, is not communication in the classic sense (although it is in terms of physics I admit).  Even then since the ring is a continual thing, it says nothing about the speed of that communication (any more than phase velocity says anything about group velocity).

In short, you are adding in needless complexity to avoid the simple solution:  Anora ratted you out.  Do Not.  So sayeth Occam.

We know that there are spells not used by player characters and companions that are known in game. Wynne never casts a magical barrier for you, but she has one when you meet her in the tower. It is not beyond the realm of possibility, and seems to me quite likely, that a mage could trigger an alarm at another location. Likewise, a magical device could be linked to the life signs of another person. So, for example, if the pearl goes from white to black, Arl Howe is dead.

Isn't magic fun?

This goes back to bioware plot cheese.  However, again you are presupposing additional complexity (a spell that is never seen in the game, isn't available to PCs, that somehow applies JUST in this situation but no others) just to avoid the obvious and correct conclusion:

Anora is a backstabbing rat.

Sorry but no.  The more "extras" you try to add here to try to aquite Anora just maks your case weaker and weaker.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

mousestalker wrote...

If it were done in real time, then we would have no loading screens. And yet we do.

That is utter Bolloxs.

We have loading screans due to space and/or memory issues with the machine.  It's not clean and it's not practical to try to show two floors of a three dimensional building on a 2-D screen even with 3-D Graphics and totally unneeded.

The real and ONLY reason you get a loading screen is it's more efficient to show one floor at a time.  Loading Screens do NOT imply a time dialation all by themselves.

-Polaris

[mousestalker]

IanPolaris wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

If it were done in real time, then we would have no loading screens. And yet we do.

That is utter Bolloxs.

We have loading screans due to space and/or memory issues with the machine.  It's not clean and it's not practical to try to show two floors of a three dimensional building on a 2-D screen even with 3-D Graphics and totally unneeded.

The real and ONLY reason you get a loading screen is it's more efficient to show one floor at a time.  Loading Screens do NOT imply a time dialation all by themselves.

-Polaris

You use machine limitations as an excuse here, yet you still think that time and space compression aren't used elsewhere in the palace? You are being most selective. Either time and space compression is used, which you concede, in which case you must concede that it is possibly used other than  where you wish, or it is not and it does not.

We are shown only notional rooms. The rooms shown could not supply, sleep nor support the people shown occupying them. Further the number of servants shown are inadequate for the palace as it shown. 

And magic explains much.

[IanPolaris]

mousestalker wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

If it were done in real time, then we would have no loading screens. And yet we do.

That is utter Bolloxs.

We have loading screans due to space and/or memory issues with the machine.  It's not clean and it's not practical to try to show two floors of a three dimensional building on a 2-D screen even with 3-D Graphics and totally unneeded.

The real and ONLY reason you get a loading screen is it's more efficient to show one floor at a time.  Loading Screens do NOT imply a time dialation all by themselves.

-Polaris

You use machine limitations as an excuse here, yet you still think that time and space compression aren't used elsewhere in the palace? You are being most selective. Either time and space compression is used, which you concede, in which case you must concede that it is possibly used other than  where you wish, or it is not and it does not.

We are shown only notional rooms. The rooms shown could not supply, sleep nor support the people shown occupying them. Further the number of servants shown are inadequate for the palace as it shown. 

And magic explains much.

I am going to make this crystal clear even for you:

My explaination for Ser Cauthrien's arrival requires no "special magic" that there is no evidence for, no sight of, and never seen elsewhere in the game.  My explaination does not require wierd distortions in the space-time continuim (and btw the actual rooms and castle dimensions are actually pretty accurate...do some research on real midaeval manor houses and castles). 

Your "explaination" (which is really an excuse) requires all of this.

Therefore my explain is almost certainly the correct one.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

One more thing Mousetalker. Loading screens do NOT always imply time dialation (and I've already given you real and sufficient reason it doesn't in this case). Soldier's Peak is a good counter-example to your notion.



-Polaris