515 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

Xandurpein wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Really?  You don't think so?   So  you have a different take on the whole cutscene that occurs  in Denerim after the Ostagar disaster?  You know, the part where  Logain  demands that everyone  help him rebuild what was lost at Ostagar, and where he angerly  warns all the nobles that he'll brook dessention from ANYONE? 

Sounds to me  like he's already taken the mantle, and started  barking out the new rules--- as was his plan all along.
 

Loghain is ready to defend Fereldan at any cost. If a King, like Maric, does a good job of it, he is happy to let him rule and stick to leading armies. If however the King is dead and the nobles in the country seem to be, to him,  squabbling fools he will do everything he can to save the country from what he percieves as ruin.

Right.  Which brings us back to his decision to plunge the country into turmoil by  leaving Caelin  alone on the battlefield... to die.  And  then trying to assassinate/poison  the competition right afterwords.  Not to mention the fact that he really didn't  NEED to do any of that anyway.  Fereldan still has a, popular, ruling Queen at that point...


Again,  looks to me like it was his plan all along... prior to the Ostagar battle.

Even Anora suspects that it was... 

I guess it's derailing the thread, as it is about Anora, but yes. He was planning to do something about Cailan, whom he thought was betraying Fereldan. The point is that all the things he did, and I'm the first to admit that I think al ot of it was wrong and even evil, he did to defend Fereldan as he saw it. It was never a question of grabbing power for the sake of power. He grabbed power, because he, mistakenly, thought he was the only one who could save Fereldan - from Orlais, from the darkspawn and even from Cailan and Eamon.

We really don't need to discuss  irrelevancies like "why  did he grab power".    The  simple fact that he elaborately plotted to acquire that power is more than enough  to completely disprove the ridiculous claim that he never wanted  to rule.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 février 2010 - 01:08 .

[SurelyForth]

I have to ask- why do people assume that Maric was such a himbo? I've read enough of the books to have gotten the distinct impression that he cared too much about Rowan to cheat on her and that the other women we know he slept with, one before his marriage and one after Rowan's death, were women he cared about. Am I missing something really obvious?

And, relatedly, I think that Anora, when she talks with the PC after the rescue at Howe's estate, is at her most manipulative. We know she's lying outright when she says that she'll support you after you tell her that you are backing Alistair and/or you say that Loghain must be executed for his crimes (which, judging from Cailan's promise to the HN, is exactly what would be done in that situation). It's hard for me to take anything she says at face value, including the claim that Cailan had other women. Certainly, it's very, very possible but it's also possible that she is only saying that to guilt the PC into handing Alistair over whole.

I don't dislike Anora, I have even defended the Alienage situation as it being less a product of poor ruling than it is her maintaining the status quo (since the elves weren't really flourishing uner Maric, either). However, she's a politician and is in full on campaign mode when the Warden meets her. Knowing that and knowing the crap she will pull if the Warden doesn't play her games, it makes it very difficult to get a real sense of what is true and what is false when it comes to her.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 24 février 2010 - 01:07 .

[Elfseeker]

Once again, she's -had- power for the better part of five years.

Her father grabs it, runs the country more or less into the ground, and even if she should hear of Alistair's qualifications, initial talks with him can't possibly paint too kingly a picture.

What with the similarities with Cailan, though, it is somewhat hard to swallow that she at no point suggests the union herself. Or maybe it's just not 'suitable' for such an idea to come from her.

[Elfseeker]

He manouvered to gain military control. Political power arguably could not matter less to him, considering what he allows happen to the people of Ferelden while working to aquire that control.

He is in his mind waging the opening stages in a war with an old enemy. Politics be damned..

[Elfseeker]

DOES she promise support after you tell her you intend to kill daddy and/or depose her? Or does she simply offer it on the condition that you support her? If the former, I would suspect a dialogue-error.

Dialogues that go a little crooked does happen. Leliana, anyone?

But I find it hard to believe she'd promise her support after you claim intent to depose her and kill daddy. That would not 'mesh' with her character...and if your char should believe her in the event she does, he/she would be beyond stupid.

The way i recall it, she only promises support if -you- promise to try and save him...or something to that effect. And supporting you deposing her? Now there's a doozy.

[Helios969]

Elfseeker wrote...

First of all, one thing ought to appear evident; Their time is not our time. A LOT of things goes into that idea.
'concubines' is all but expected, rulers had much less privacy and personal influence on their people and thus needed much better control of themselves, and a few other things I can't think of right now. Essentially it's ludicrous to judge them by our standards.

Secondly, I suspect many of you ignore the 'request/instruction' to go talk to her in her room after rescue. HIGHLY recommended. There, as everywhere else, she speaks plainly and straightforwardly. No lies, No backstabbing, no betrayals. Every time it appears as if she undercuts you, -you- have done it to -her-. Either by a wrong word or action, or by not following the railroad tracks(talk to her after rescue). Listen to what she tells you(pre-rescue as well), and take a moment to consider it. Then realize that the final battle at Howe's is by all accounts -supposed- to be unwinnable. You either fight and she gets away in the chaos, or the gang takes you away, and she slips away -outfitted as a guard-. Just as we don't play through sleeping and 'bush-visits', that we recognize her, don't mean the chars in the game does.

Thirdly, getting rather tired of reading how she is a 'cold fish', 'ice queen' and otherwise insulting and highly unsuitable things. I wonder if anyone here has any notion what a 'cold' person is really like...?
Anora ain't it.
She is efficient, straightforward, and in control of herself. Keeping her poise. If she didn't, if she carried her heart on her sleeve, as it were, i think history would prove her chances of effective rule near nil. You don't let the troops see you worry. Same goes for the 'civil' side of things. How can you expect the country you lead to be at peace if you are not?

Finally, she's -been- ruling the country for the better part of five years. She's not -taking- anything at all.
Consider; you've ruled a country for five years, then you end up kicked off your throne and tucked away in a cell, prospects less than good for your continued survival, and the country heading for certain ruin. Would you let the throne sail on without you, or would you try to get it back?
As she apparently did a good job in those five years, I would guess her motivations at least partially involved concern for the her people(and as rightly pointed out elsewhere, her people = the humans. She needs Alistair's balancing hand to not go overboard with the elves).

Conclusion, she is a woman in command of herself, who cares about her country and has a tendency to *gasp* put all the cards on the table.

As for the 'Ice queen' thing....observe her when her father is killed at landsmeet...nuff said.
(nevermind that she has heat aplenty at other times. No ice there)

An excellent synopsis.  I'd like to take a bit further with the following.  Everyone wears masks.  Our companions best reveal this fact.  Alistair uses his corny jokes to high his insecurities as well as his birth right.  Leliana plays the happy go luck dizzy chick, but beneath that is a calculating manipulator .  Zevran uses his over the top suaveness and goofy come on lines to mask that he's a cold blooded killer, Oghren has turned to alcohol to hide his embarrassment over losing his honored place in Orzammar, Sten plays the stoic, duty-bound warrior but secretly loves simple beautiful things, and finally, Morrigan reserves harsh criticism toward anything impractical, especially emotions she preceives as "weak."

The simple fact is that we never got to talk with her at length over a period of time - gaining her trust enough to get her to open up and discover her base fears, attitudes, and prejudices.  She might be a total B*tch, but we just don't know.  It's a sad commentary on people that we judge one to be this or that based on such a small interaction.

[SurelyForth]

Elfseeker wrote...

DOES she promise support after you tell her you intend to kill daddy and/or depose her? Or does she simply offer it on the condition that you support her? If the former, I would suspect a dialogue-error.
Dialogues that go a little crooked does happen. Leliana, anyone?
But I find it hard to believe she'd promise her support after you claim intent to depose her and kill daddy. That would not 'mesh' with her character...and if your char should believe her in the event she does, he/she would be beyond stupid.
The way i recall it, she only promises support if -you- promise to try and save him...or something to that effect. And supporting you deposing her? Now there's a doozy.

I don't remember the exact wording, and I'm at work.  I know that she leaves you with the distinct impression that she's still on your side, for the good of Ferelden. That's why it's a surprise when she betrays you at the Landsmeet (especially if you told her you would support her).

The simple fact is that we never got to talk with her at length over a period of time - gaining her trust enough to get her to open up and discover her base fears, attitudes, and prejudices.  She might be a total B*tch, but we just don't know.  It's a sad commentary on people that we judge one to be this or that based on such a small interaction.

If you wander around Eamon's estate, you can hear some of the servants talking about Anora and how she has a "temper like a nest of hornets", and she's kind of crappy towards Erlina. It might all be gossip and conjecture, but how one treats their staff/underlings says a lot about them about a person.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 24 février 2010 - 01:49 .

[Reaverwind]

Elfseeker wrote...

DOES she promise support after you tell her you intend to kill daddy and/or depose her? Or does she simply offer it on the condition that you support her? If the former, I would suspect a dialogue-error.
Dialogues that go a little crooked does happen. Leliana, anyone?
But I find it hard to believe she'd promise her support after you claim intent to depose her and kill daddy. That would not 'mesh' with her character...and if your char should believe her in the event she does, he/she would be beyond stupid.
The way i recall it, she only promises support if -you- promise to try and save him...or something to that effect. And supporting you deposing her? Now there's a doozy.

Yes, Anora does promise support after you inform her of Loghain's impending demise, although the dialogue is a bit different. It's not something someone would pick up on unless they've played through the different options.

If you inform her you can't support her and then ask for support for Alistair, then she'll say something about being content with having control wrested from Loghain.


As Anora is portrayed in-game - I'm not impressed. If she were truly the controlling power behind the throne, Loghain wouldn't  have become the de facto ruler. As is, she's a good wheeler-and-dealer, is all.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 24 février 2010 - 01:53 .

[Helios969]

Reaverwind wrote...

As Anora is portrayed in-game - I'm not impressed. If she were truly the controlling power behind the throne, Loghain wouldn't  have become the de facto ruler. As is, she's a good wheeler-and-dealer, is all.

That's a good point about Loghain, but the latter aspect would be a desirable trait for a ruler to have.

[Xandurpein]

Yrkoon wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Really?  You don't think so?   So  you have a different take on the whole cutscene that occurs  in Denerim after the Ostagar disaster?  You know, the part where  Logain  demands that everyone  help him rebuild what was lost at Ostagar, and where he angerly  warns all the nobles that he'll brook dessention from ANYONE? 

Sounds to me  like he's already taken the mantle, and started  barking out the new rules--- as was his plan all along.
 

Loghain is ready to defend Fereldan at any cost. If a King, like Maric, does a good job of it, he is happy to let him rule and stick to leading armies. If however the King is dead and the nobles in the country seem to be, to him,  squabbling fools he will do everything he can to save the country from what he percieves as ruin.

Right.  Which brings us back to his decision to plunge the country into turmoil by  leaving Caelin  alone on the battlefield... to die.  And  then trying to assassinate/poison  the competition right afterwords.  Not to mention the fact that he really didn't  NEED to do any of that anyway.  Fereldan still has a, popular, ruling Queen at that point...


Again,  looks to me like it was his plan all along... prior to the Ostagar battle.

Even Anora suspects that it was... 

I guess it's derailing the thread, as it is about Anora, but yes. He was planning to do something about Cailan, whom he thought was betraying Fereldan. The point is that all the things he did, and I'm the first to admit that I think al ot of it was wrong and even evil, he did to defend Fereldan as he saw it. It was never a question of grabbing power for the sake of power. He grabbed power, because he, mistakenly, thought he was the only one who could save Fereldan - from Orlais, from the darkspawn and even from Cailan and Eamon.

We really don't need to discuss  irrelevancies like "why  did he grab power".    The  simple fact that he elaborately plotted to acquire that power is more than enough  to completely disprove the ridiculous claim that he never wanted  to rule.

LOL. Of course why you grab power is relevant. You and Eamon are trying to grab power from Loghain, aren't you? You are doing it for a good thing, but still...

[nos_astra]

Elfseeker wrote...

DOES she promise support after you tell her you intend to kill daddy and/or depose her? Or does she simply offer it on the condition that you support her? If the former, I would suspect a dialogue-error.

After I refused to support her and told her that Loghain must be brought to justice, when asked for support for Alistair she says: I'll tell you this: my father must be stopped. Once he is kept from the throne, if it should fall to Alistair then I should be content.

This is an outright lie since she will betray me by siding with her father (no intend of stopping him if it serves her) and she will refuse to swear fealty to Alistair (If you think I'll swear that oath you know nothing of me, Eamon.).

Edit: After going through the discussion again, I think she's clearly manipulating you and even Cailan's mistresses might be a lie. Whatever lies underneath the surface, it doesn't show in the game.

Modifié par klarabella, 24 février 2010 - 02:11 .

[odiedragon]

DarkCamel wrote...
As for Cailan shooting blanks. Yes, maybe, but I think there is the possibility that there are methods of contraconception - yes, it's a funny thought but still. Magic, you know. ;-)

When speaking of her son, Wynne states that (among mages anyway) "Such births are rare, as there are ways to prevent it"
While this does not rule out the possiblity that it is based in magic and thus not avaliable to everyone, it does say that there is some kind of contraception avaliable.  At least, that's how I interpreted it.

ETA: Never mind, someone already mentioned this.

Modifié par odiedragon, 24 février 2010 - 04:04 .

[Elfseeker]

icky bit, there. 'if' it should fall to Alistair. if she is planning to see that that does not happen...voila. She keeps her word.



Strikes me that the ladies of the white tower in the wheel of time books would be able to spend a few instructive hours with her, with a tossup as to which side would learn the most about verbal acrobatics.

(Don't remember what they are called, but in that world they have a reputation for makingt the language dance for them. What you hear may not be what they are saying. )

[Elfseeker]

Bear in mind, if you intend to topple her, she has little reason to regard your side as 'friendly'.

[odiedragon]

SurelyForth wrote...
I have to ask- why do people assume that Maric was such a himbo? I've read enough of the books to have gotten the distinct impression that he cared too much about Rowan to cheat on her and that the other women we know he slept with, one before his marriage and one after Rowan's death, were women he cared about. Am I missing something really obvious?

I'm right there with you Surely.  I think a lot of this comes from extrapolating what's in game about Alistair's origins.  My gut says that a lot of these things would be considered "legacy information", as I've heard certain thigns described before by the devs on here... the bits about having to hide Alistiar's existance from Rowan.  The codex has tons of continiuty issues, sadly.  Anyway.  If you presume that the codex information is still accurate, people are (I'm presuming) extrapolating from it "If Maric would sleep with a random Redcliffe serving girl, he's totally had tons of other women too".

Me?  I'm with you.  Katriel happened before his marriage to Rowan, and Fiona after her death.  I don't think Maric slept around the way that most people presume he did.

I also agree with others who have said that if Cailan did have any bastards, they would not have anyone high-profile backing them up.  Alistair seems to have been a "known secret" if you will, who was pretty much forgotten about after being shipped to the Chantry.  It's only when Eamon brings him into the spotlight that people remember his existance, but if people knew about him from long ago they'd give more credience to his claim than someone showing up with a blonde kid in tow claiming they have Theirin blood.

[Jaulen]

Um, hello? She's only a noble by birth, she has no noble blood. She has NO claim to the throne other than by right of her boinking the previous King. In terms of inheritance for the throne, she would have been deposed at the first chance if it hadn't been for daddy taking control.

I wish I could cut off her head along with Loghain for being the usurper she is.
And FYI, Logahin has NO claim to the throne other than by right of force and grabbing it, since after all, he's (when you get down to it) a commoner of common blood.

Modifié par Jaulen, 24 février 2010 - 04:08 .

[Realmzmaster]

@Jaulen,

I think you meant she is only a noble by marriage. Your are correct she has no royal blood. She is not a descendent of King Calenhad.

[Elfseeker]

She has a right to the throne by the fact of her -marriage- to the former king. Boinking is optional.

And while I hate repeating myself; she is not 'usurping' anything. The throne IS hers. Else why the talk about 'deposing' her?

As for Alistair? some bastard child that's spent most of his life locked away from the real world, and then wandering the roads (more or less) killing everything he sees. If one should ask the people, a five year track record will beat 'goofy newcomer' any day. The blood-thing is mostly political. Tradition and all that. IMPOV, anyway.

[master-fluff]

Elfseeker wrote...

She has a right to the throne by the fact of her -marriage- to the former king. Boinking is optional.

Where do you get this idea from, where does it say she was a queen regnant ?  As far as I can see, Cailen was king regnant, Anora was queen consort.  Now he's dead, she's a queen dowager and unless Ferelden has very unusual accession rules, she has no claim on the throne at all.  The surviving spouses of a king or queen do not inherit the throne.

[Bratt1204]

Elfseeker wrote...

She has a right to the throne by the fact of her -marriage- to the former king. Boinking is optional.
And while I hate repeating myself; she is not 'usurping' anything. The throne IS hers. Else why the talk about 'deposing' her?
As for Alistair? some bastard child that's spent most of his life locked away from the real world, and then wandering the roads (more or less) killing everything he sees. If one should ask the people, a five year track record will beat 'goofy newcomer' any day. The blood-thing is mostly political. Tradition and all that. IMPOV, anyway.

You are obviously ignorant to how a Monarchy or laws of succession work. It would be wise for you to educate yourself a bit on a topic before making statements which are simply incorrect. :innocent:

Modifié par Bratt1204, 24 février 2010 - 05:23 .

[krylo]

She manipulates you into killing Howe. The idea she was truly in danger was ridiculous and even she admits that any idea of her being in danger from Howe is secondary to her political schemes when you confront her about it.

Killing Howe weakens your position at the landsmeet (though uncovering his crimes strengthens it), in that you've murdered a noble outside of the purview of the law, allowing Loghain to, rightly, point out that whatever crimes Howe has committed he should have been brought before the Seneschel. In doing, so, however, she also ensures that her father has his political advisor removed from power, meaning that if Loghain stays in power he will be forced to rely more upon HER political aptitude than Howe's.

She manipulated things to be in her best interest no matter the outcome.

She goes on to promise you support regardless of what you say to her, and then in 2/3rds of your options (Not supporting her, Supporting her but still killing Loghain, Supporting her and saving Loghain), she not only denies her support but uses her position, charisma, and political ability to completely murder your chances at a resolution in the Landsmeet.

She, further, backs her father even after you bring forth that he was torturing nobles, conspiring with blood mages, imprisoning Templars, and selling elves as slaves.

She manipulated you and all the players from the start.

Now, does that make her an ice queen? A ****? A valid ruler? Maybe. Maybe not.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, though, because it makes her stupid. Not stupid in a 'dur duh hurr hurr' way, but stupid in that the outcome of her choices was completely predictable even outside of the 'the good guy is gonna win this' genre-savviness.

We know Loghain. Loghain will not allow the nobles to go against him. He has tried to have one noble killed, had another tortured, and imprisoned a Templar to remove political rivals. Him calling treason on The Warden and Eamon was completely obvious. Further there are three Grey Wardens in all of Ferelden. All three of them stand to die if Loghain calls treason. The thought that they would simply allow themselves to be killed while a Blight is on the way is equally ridiculous, as is the idea that Eamon would allow himself to die when he has the second largest army in the land.

FURTHER, she knows, first hand, what The Warden is capable of in combat. She knows The Warden walked into Howe's Estate, murdered the **** out of him and his soldiers and walked back out smelling like roses until being ambushed by Ser Cautherine, at which point she THEN knows that the Warden and his companions either killed one of the most powerful knights in the land, along with her contingent of eight archers, three other soldiers, and a mage, OR she knows that the Warden and his Companions were able to escape from Fort Drakon and murder the **** out of every guard between them and escape.

In short, given everything that she knows, there was no way for her to assume that A) Loghain wouldn't call treason, Eamon and The Warden wouldn't fight back and C) that Loghain's guards stood little chance against The Warden and his/her companions.

Given that she knows all this she either highly overestimates her father or has made a terrible terrible strategic mistake that can only lead to her death/imprisonment and the death of her father.

At the end of the day she not only manipulated The Warden from the beginning, but she also has a 2/3rds chance of making a terrible strategic error that she SHOULD have been smart enough to avoid.

This is why people don't like her.

It doesn't matter if she's truly any of the things people call her or not. She's a manipulative skulky **** who chooses to stab the wrong mother ****er in the back.

Modifié par krylo, 24 février 2010 - 05:37 .

[Sabriana]

Yeah, even Catherine the Great had to resort to a coup d'état to gain the throne of Russia, even though her husband Peter III was the hereditary tsar. Granted, Peter was still alive for three more days, but without the coup, Catherine would not have become empress, be he dead or alive. If dead, the throne would have fallen to the next closest relative of Peter's blood-line.

[Bratt1204]

krylo wrote...

She manipulates you into killing Howe. The idea she was truly in danger was ridiculous and even she admits that any idea of her being in danger from Howe is secondary to her political schemes when you confront her about it.

Killing Howe weakens your position at the landsmeet (though uncovering his crimes strengthens it), in that you've murdered a noble outside of the purview of the law, allowing Loghain to, rightly, point out that whatever crimes Howe has committed he should have been brought before the Seneschel. In doing, so, however, she also ensures that her father has his political advisor removed from power, meaning that if Loghain stays in power he will be forced to rely more upon HER political aptitude than Howe's.

She manipulated things to be in her best interest no matter the outcome.

She goes on to promise you support regardless of what you say to her, and then in 2/3rds of your options (Not supporting her, Supporting her but still killing Loghain, Supporting her and saving Loghain), she not only denies her support but uses her position, charisma, and political ability to completely murder your chances at a resolution in the Landsmeet.

She, further, backs her father even after you bring forth that he was torturing nobles, conspiring with blood mages, imprisoning Templars, and selling elves as slaves.

She manipulated you and all the players from the start.

Now, does that make her an ice queen? A ****? A valid ruler? Maybe. Maybe not.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, though, because it makes her stupid. Not stupid in a 'dur duh hurr hurr' way, but stupid in that the outcome of her choices was completely predictable even outside of the 'the good guy is gonna win this' genre-savviness.

We know Loghain. Loghain will not allow the nobles to go against him. He has tried to have one noble killed, had another tortured, and imprisoned a Templar to remove political rivals. Him calling treason on The Warden and Eamon was completely obvious. Further there are three Grey Wardens in all of Ferelden. All three of them stand to die if Loghain calls treason. The thought that they would simply allow themselves to be killed while a Blight is on the way is equally ridiculous, as is the idea that Eamon would allow himself to die when he has the second largest army in the land.

FURTHER, she knows, first hand, what The Warden is capable of in combat. She knows The Warden walked into Howe's Estate, murdered the **** out of him and his soldiers and walked back out smelling like roses until being ambushed by Ser Cautherine, at which point she THEN knows that the Warden and his companions either killed one of the most powerful knights in the land, along with her contingent of eight archers, three other soldiers, and a mage, OR she knows that the Warden and his Companions were able to escape from Fort Drakon and murder the **** out of every guard between them and escape.

In short, given everything that she knows, there was no way for her to assume that A) Loghain wouldn't call treason, Eamon and The Warden wouldn't fight back and C) that Loghain's guards stood little chance against The Warden and his/her companions.

Given that she knows all this she either highly overestimates her father or has made a terrible terrible strategic mistake that can only lead to her death/imprisonment and the death of her father.

At the end of the day she not only manipulated The Warden from the beginning, but she also has a 2/3rds chance of making a terrible strategic error that she SHOULD have been smart enough to avoid.

This is why people don't like her.

It doesn't matter if she's truly any of the things people call her or not. She's a manipulative skulky **** who chooses to stab the wrong mother ****er in the back.

Anora needs to be executed; period.

[krylo]

Bratt1204 wrote...

Anora needs to be executed; period.

Honestly, I'd have a lot more respect for her and her position if her options were either help the warden or remain silent and allow The Warden/Loghain to fail/succeed on their own devices.

She comes off as a calculating manipulator, which I can respect, but then that all goes to hell when she puts her life on the line to save her father's life.

Avoiding the Landsmeet would have been the best thing for her to do given all we know of her character up to that point.  She should know that trying to save Loghain wouldn't work--at least not in the way she did it, however, had she avoided the Landsmeet/fled the scene she could have maintained rights to the throne and attempted to position herself to take it later if Loghain failed/The Warden managed to put Alistair on the throne.

It would have been the best for her AND her country, assuming Alistair wound up being as poor a king as she feared.

Modifié par krylo, 24 février 2010 - 05:42 .

[Vicious]

Are you kidding? Half the people who play this game betray Anora FIRST by announcing her identity to Ser Cauthrien who otherwise is oblivious and lets her walk away. Then they scream and cry about what a traitor she is for doing that, and how evil she is for wanting to STAY Queen?

Maybe if people didn't just click past dialogue they'd realize this. But nope, they blame her for running away instead of being put wherever Loghain wants her, and blame her for trying to keep the throne which the jackass PC is coming out of nowhere and pulling a coup to get rid of her.


To call her traitorous is just the kind of incomprehensible 'logic' that is all over these forums.


Her 'Right' to the throne is more concrete than Alistair's, who is quite literally an undeclared Bastard of a dead king [not even the most RECENT king] and should have zero claim and be laughed out of the Landsmeet - alas the poor guy is pigeon holed into the path the second he mentions that he is a bastard son of Maric. I really feel for him.

Modifié par Vicious, 24 février 2010 - 05:46 .