515 réponses à ce sujet

[Bratt1204]

krylo wrote...

Alandros wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes I never understood why Anora is so hated. I liked her. She is an excellent Queen all around. She is bad for trying to protect her throne from you? No kidding.

The Throne is not hers.

The throne is whomever holds it, which Anora does... And whomever is strong enough to retain it, which may be Anora if she convinces our character(s) that her remaining in power is a good thing.  Which as far as I'm concerned is a good thing.

She cant hold the throne at all. Loghain walked right in and said this is how its gonna be. Now I am not a believe of carrying a bloodline for Kings. But in Ferelden that seems like a big deal since the Theirin bloodline has ruled for 400 years.

Loghain got rid of the King and nearly got away with it (in some perspectives did get away with it).  So apparently even an established King can't "hold the throne" as well as you might suggest, nevertheless a bastard brother of the King.

Except he does hold it.

Also, he's already a better ruler than Anora five seconds after being named king.  Anora tries to get him executed if she is queen, even though he's one of the last Grey Wardens alive and would be riding off to fight the Blight.  Alistair, on the other hand, has her locked in a tower and officially names her heir to the throne if he dies fighting the blight.

One of them is showing a bit more wisdom here, and it's not Anora.

Exactly.

[Alandros]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmm, when Anora is solo queen, doesn't she refer to the Teyrnir of Gwaren as her father's, not her own? If it were truly passed onto her, wouldn't it be hers? When he was stripped on his title, it seems she lost claim to it as well.

Meanwhile, the Cousland obviously has noble backing regarding his/her Teyrnir.

What is the reason Anora gives for marrying the male Cousland? Does she say it gives her claim a legitimacy it otherwise would not? Or something else?

Something else... she identifies that you are of Cousland noble blood and that it could work, you actually have to succeed on a Persuade to get her to do it as well.  She sees you exchanging your support for her (which has nothing to do with being noble but being the PC Warden who seems to have the most influence at that time) hand.  Basically she refers to it as a strong noble union but mostly that she is giving you something in return for your support that should seal her into the throne.  She needs your support to be Queen regnant just like alistair needs your support as well, but the Human Male Noble has no identified shot at becoming a King on his own, so you can make this deal and gain the position of "Prince-Consort."  

You do have dialogues to say you want to be King and not just a prince-consort but she refers to her being second fiddle in the past, despite being the actual ruler, and not wanting to do it again.

A couple of the following dialogues are quite entertaining as well.  There isn't much chance for interaction (despite being betrothed now) but the couple cases are well done.  After the Landsmeet she comes to you and asks if you still want to go through with it, you can respond in about three fairly nice ways and one response is along the lines of:

"If it gets me to the Throne then yes"

She responds along the lines of:  "It get's you near the throne not in it, if you understand that then we'll have no problems."

There's an additional similar response you can say at Corronation (one of them opens up a slightly softer side to her) where you say you are looking forward to be King and she corrects you with: "Prince-Consort"...

She makes it very clear that she is setting herself in power and she's bringing you on in exchange for support as second fiddle.

[Bratt1204]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The throne is Alistair's if he chooses to accept it and the PC backs his claim. Half of the outcomes have Alistair as not being King because he choose not to accept it. He rejected the throne, not because it was not his by birthright.
Anora has no birthright claim on the throne. She was married to Cailan who was king. She is a Queen Consort. Only a Queen Regent can claim the throne.
Yes, Anora was ruling the land for five years, but that is only because Cailan was king and he was a direct descendent of King Calenhad. (Just like Alistair). If there was no living heir the Landsmeet would prpbably have kept Anora as Queen.
Anora herself states that a marriage with Alistair strengths both her position and Alistair's. But in this case Alistair's has the stronger position. Bloodline seems to be very important in Ferelden, since they fought to perserve it according to Arl Eamon. The Landsmeet can decide whoever they want as King, but if a living heir in the royal bloodline exists and it can be proven they will side with the bloodline.
As a male human noble you can put forth your character as king by marrying Anora, but Alistair would still have to reject his claim on the throne and swear fealty.
But for any of this to bear fruit you have to defeat Loghain in the duel.

Still, some out there just cannot grasp this. :innocent:

[Bratt1204]

Vicious wrote...

my MHN cannot in good conscience put Alistair on the throne. Why? He is the last of a line which failed time and time again to keep Ferelden safe. His ancestor, Calenhad, had the Couslands join him at the tip of a sword. The Couslands always fought for Ferelden's freedom, and never bent knee to Tyrants. [King Arland/Orlais] Couslands are damn near the oldest family in Ferelden, they SHOULD be in charge.

That said, this is an interesting thread. I see "Anora has no claim!" a lot, but she is the daughter of a Teryn and Queen. I never once heard her called Queen-Consort or Princess-Consort, and I don't know how the hell people regard her as that here, except as, yknow, standard forum revisionist history.

That's why I believe the strongest choice for Ferelden's Throne would be a female Cousland ruling with Alistair, jointly.

[Addai]

Alandros wrote...
That is a good point, you don't become the Hero until after the Landsmeet + siege of Denerim.  You also don't get a chance to get granted being a Teyrn until you are asked for your boon (in which you can get Loghains Teyrnage).

Are you arguing that Anora is queen by virtue of inheriting the throne and that the Landsmeet is only a formal recognition?  Then you should be equally arguing that the Cousland PC inherits the terynir of Highever, regardless of whether it is granted to him or her as boon or otherwise.

[Bratt1204]

Vicious wrote...

my MHN cannot in good conscience put Alistair on the throne. Why? He is the last of a line which failed time and time again to keep Ferelden safe. His ancestor, Calenhad, had the Couslands join him at the tip of a sword. The Couslands always fought for Ferelden's freedom, and never bent knee to Tyrants. [King Arland/Orlais] Couslands are damn near the oldest family in Ferelden, they SHOULD be in charge.

That said, this is an interesting thread. I see "Anora has no claim!" a lot, but she is the daughter of a Teryn and Queen. I never once heard her called Queen-Consort or Princess-Consort, and I don't know how the hell people regard her as that here, except as, yknow, standard forum revisionist history.

Because she is not Queen-Regent, only Queen-Consort. She has no Royal blood, therefore she is not Queen -Regent.

[Alandros]

Bratt1204 wrote...

krylo wrote...


Also, he's already a better ruler than Anora five seconds after being named king.  Anora tries to get him executed if she is queen, even though he's one of the last Grey Wardens alive and would be riding off to fight the Blight.  Alistair, on the other hand, has her locked in a tower and officially names her heir to the throne if he dies fighting the blight.

One of them is showing a bit more wisdom here, and it's not Anora.

Exactly.

That's debatable.  A hardened Alistair seems to be a good ruler in the Epilogue slides, but it seems pretty apparent that if he's not hardened he is a very bad governing ruler, which suggests he leaves it to Eamon or the Bann's to have their own way without doing his job.  While Anora is stated as already being a good ruler for 5 years and in the slides she continues to be a good one (if not perfect).

[Realmzmaster]

@Master-fluff,

You are correct I meant regnant. Regent is the title usually reserved for a persom who rules in the stead of a child king or queen until the child reaches maturity.

The other nobles do not regard Anora as being a noble since her father was a commoner and Alistair has a better claim to the royal bloodline. Also the minute Loghain is stripped of his title, it does not fall to Anora. The Teryn must have the backing of the arls, banns and freeholders in the area.

If Alistair is made king he can then designate who will be the Teryn of Gwaren. The same with Anora if made queen. As long as the freeholders, banns and arls agree. The King or Queen is considered teryn of Ferelden.

[Helios969]

It's amazing how much genuine hate a video game character can foster. The way this thread is rolling along, it'll rival the Zevran one in no time. Who would have thought little old Anora could have this affect on so many people. You'd think she was Sarah Palin or Nancy Pelosi with the amount of zealotry in this thread.

[IanPolaris]

Alandros wrote...
That's debatable.  A hardened Alistair seems to be a good ruler in the Epilogue slides, but it seems pretty apparent that if he's not hardened he is a very bad governing ruler, which suggests he leaves it to Eamon or the Bann's to have their own way without doing his job.  While Anora is stated as already being a good ruler for 5 years and in the slides she continues to be a good one (if not perfect).

Sorry but it's not really debateable.  The only thing worse than Fereldan if yoiu read the slides than Anora being ruling queen is for an unhardened Alistair to be King.  However, I don't consider that a real option since anyone with a gram of sense should know not to put an unhardened Alistair anywhere near a position of responsibility.

The fact is that Anora cares only about her personal power and not about Fereldan at all.  She proves that with her decisions time and again, and three completely different people confirm this (Arl Eamon, Arl Howe, and Logain himself if you have him as a companion).  Listen to the hardened Alistair when he describes Anora because he has her pegged perfectly:  "....she is her fathers daughter.  Me, I think that's the problem. People like her think that only they can solve problems and that everyone else should just get out of their way."  That's Anora to a tee.  She won't listen, won't consider that maybe, just maybe she might be mistaken about anything.  If that sounds like how Logain went down the sewer, well....you'd be right.

Consider that she won't marry (unless forced to) because she doesn't want to share power even though she knows that having children would be good for Fereldan.  She also has significant civil unrest during her rule which is unlike the other, much better options.  Finally it seems likely she's barren....and she does lie to the PC about being content if the Landsmeet decides to go with Alistair....who btw shows much more wisdom and maturity by merely locking her up in the tower UNTIL the blight is decided or as he puts it, "at least one of us has to deal with the blight responsibly"

Also from the Cousland perspective, Anora is the worst kind of hypocrit by claiming to be sympathies with you and being a follower of your mothers yet doing nothing about it (yet she's supposed to be a good leader)?

Finally consider this:  Not only does Anora have no legal right to the throne (assuming Fereldan uses English Law when it comes to noble inheritance which I think is likely), her right to be considered a noble at all is sketchy at best.  Given Logain's crimes which will certainly cause him to be stripped of his knighthood and title, Anora reverts to being just a farmer's daughter and thus a commoner.

-Polaris

[Alandros]

Helios969 wrote...

It's amazing how much genuine hate a video game character can foster. The way this thread is rolling along, it'll rival the Zevran one in no time. Who would have thought little old Anora could have this affect on so many people. You'd think she was Sarah Palin or Nancy Pelosi with the amount of zealotry in this thread.

Very good point and she has quite a bit less dialogue than Zevran too, pretty impressive.

[Drasanil]

It seems most people who think Anora is misunderstood are simply trying to justify the power grab by their HMN as opposed to anything else really.

Now for a few points:

1) Yes Anora is the daughter of a Teyrn and as such inherited her title, but as Ser Bryant in the chantry mentions, that while they have titles, they are not viewed as legitimate nobles in that they don't have the required pedigree. Yes legally she is the Queen, but she is still viewed as a peasant because her family lacks a pedigree unlike the Theirins and the Couslands. In other words legally she is able to bid for the throne because of her title, but she is not viewed as a legitimate choice because she's still largely considered a peasant's daughter as opposed to a proper noble.

2) Anora is/was a weak Queen, the Ferelden civil war was brewing even before Eamon recovered from his "illness", if she were marginally competent or viewed as even somewhat legitimate she could have united the factions opposed to Loghain, who in essence usurped her supposed "rule", and forced him to hand back the kingdom and quit acting like a total dongwadd, as opposed to doing sweet nothing and then trying to sponge off the Warden.

3) The Theirin bloodline is more than just a few people, as Eamon suggests it is profoundly linked to Ferelden's sense of national unity, putting Anora on the throne alone (or with the HMN) should really cause more problems than putting Alistair alone (or with the HFN) because it simply doesn't carry the same sense of legitimacy and national unity. The hero of Ferelden status alleviates it for a bit, but one or two generations later half the noble families could easily find some bastard with "Theirin" blood in their family tree and guess what comes after that... I get the impression that solo Anora getting a "good" ending, as opposed to political chaos and all the fun of having a largely illegitimate peasant on the throne, was simply done to avoid pissing off those that chose her or those that chose to usurp Alistair.

4) Unless you go along with exactly what she wants (or at least pretend to) Anora does backstabb you, and don't claim you're betraying her by supporting Alistair it's rubbish, Anora's claim to the throne is flimsy at best on legal grounds and total garbage when it comes to legitimacy, while Alistair's is both legal and legitimate.
 
5) She claims to have Ferelden's best interests at heart and is supposed to be intelligent politically savy but she really isn't. She's perfectly willing to let her father continue to wreck the country so long as she doesn't loose out -personally or politically or both- as opposed to quitting while she's a head, Teyrna is still pretty good for a peasant's daughter, this can't be reinforced enough the (quasi-)medivial mindset is totally different to our own. Even after Alistair is acclaimed as King she still refuses to relinquish her barely existant claim to the throne, an act of suicidal stupidity for some one that is supposed to be intelligent, -wow I guess Eamon really didn't know her after all- and only gets to live because Alistair isn't thouroughly ruthless. 

In short I get the impression that the option to support Anora was just one those choices that was tacked on to the story for the sake of it (ie: duhr hur I get to be king/don't like Alistair), kind of like killing the dalish as opposed to curing/killing the werewolves (durh hur I don't like elves), as opposed to really being a part of it.

Modifié par Drasanil, 25 février 2010 - 12:52 .

[Alandros]

...

In short I get the impression that the option to support Anora was just one those choices that was tacked on to the story for the sake of it (ie: duhr hur I get to be king/don't like Alistair), kind of like killing the dalish as opposed to curing/killing the werewolves (durh hur I don't like elves), as opposed to really being a part of it.

A valid opinion but opinion nonetheless.  It is very clear that Anora has been a strong leader respected by the people, the other nobles/rulers, and even foreign nations.  This is mentioned pretty much as fact in a codex entry.  This alone puts her as a strong candidate.  Loghain supports this even more if you spare him and talk with him, he reflects that he never was going to kill her (despite Howe suggesting it, which he gathered Anora overheard that) and he didn't plan to supplant her, he expected her to continue ruling as Queen he simply was taking control of the military situation.  He also identifies how well respected and effective a ruler she has been and how the Banns and such know this.  So she is identified as a strong candidate since she has been ruling successfully.

[Drasanil]

First of all since you ignored all the major points I made, I guessing you didn't really have an answer to them...

Alandros wrote...
 It is very clear that Anora has been a strong leader respected by the people, the other nobles/rulers, and even foreign nations.  This is mentioned pretty much as fact in a codex entry.  This alone puts her as a strong candidate. Loghain supports this even more if you spare him and talk with him, he reflects that he never was going to kill her (despite Howe suggesting it, which he gathered Anora overheard that) and he didn't plan to supplant her, he expected her to continue ruling as Queen he simply was taking control of the military situation.

  

What the codex says and what actually is aren't nessessarily the exact same things, you kind of have to read between the lines, Anora was a "strong" leader because Cailan was backing her and giving her an air of legitimacy, if it weren't for that she wouldn't have been able to rule or do much of anything, it was Cailan's strength more than anything else that made her effective, she just knew how to use it/take advantage of him.

Secondly while Loghain says he didn't "plan" to supplant her, he effectively did so any ways ence the civil war, which is why she is a weak Queen otherwise she would have been able to maintain her authority and there wouldn't have been a civil war in the middle of a massive darkspawn invasion/blight.

He also identifies how well respected and effective a ruler she has been and how the Banns and such know this.  So she is identified as a strong candidate since she has been ruling successfully.

She "ruled" a country during peacetime with a King who's was widly viewed in a positive light and gave her legitimacy while her daddy did all the work keep things safe, she'd have to suck pretty bad to mess it up.

[sylvanaerie]

Drasanil wrote...

First of all since you ignored all the major points I made, I guessing you didn't really have an answer to them...

Alandros wrote...
 It is very clear that Anora has been a strong leader respected by the people, the other nobles/rulers, and even foreign nations.  This is mentioned pretty much as fact in a codex entry.  This alone puts her as a strong candidate. Loghain supports this even more if you spare him and talk with him, he reflects that he never was going to kill her (despite Howe suggesting it, which he gathered Anora overheard that) and he didn't plan to supplant her, he expected her to continue ruling as Queen he simply was taking control of the military situation.

  

What the codex says and what actually is aren't nessessarily the exact same things, you kind of have to read between the lines, Anora was a "strong" leader because Cailan was backing her and giving her an air of legitimacy, if it weren't for that she wouldn't have been able to rule or do much of anything, it was Cailan's strength more than anything else that made her effective, she just knew how to use it/take advantage of him.

Secondly while Loghain says he didn't "plan" to supplant her, he effectively did so any ways ence the civil war, which is why she is a weak Queen otherwise she would have been able to maintain her authority and there wouldn't have been a civil war in the middle of a massive darkspawn invasion/blight.

He also identifies how well respected and effective a ruler she has been and how the Banns and such know this.  So she is identified as a strong candidate since she has been ruling successfully.

She "ruled" a country during peacetime with a King who's was widly viewed in a positive light and gave her legitimacy while her daddy did all the work keep things safe, she'd have to suck pretty bad to mess it up.

Well that dopey speech Loghain gives after you defeat him at Landsmeet pretty much says a lot about their relationship too.  He may SAY she's a strong queen but she never seems to have the backbone to stand up to Daddy Dearest.  And to him, she's forever 6 years old with pigtails...

[Drasanil]

sylvanaerie wrote...
Well that dopey speech Loghain gives after you defeat him at Landsmeet pretty much says a lot about their relationship too.  He may SAY she's a strong queen but she never seems to have the backbone to stand up to Daddy Dearest.  And to him, she's forever 6 years old with pigtails...

Exactly she's daddy's little princess: she got what she wanted because there was no reason for her not to, at the time. She could pretty much always count on either (and/or both) Loghain/Cailan's backing to get what she wanted because there wasn't that much at stake in the first place. Once the darkspawn showed up and Cailan was gone we got to see who was really in charge, it was time for the "grown ups" to take care of things and Anora was sent in her room while daddy and uncle Howe made sur everything was alright.

[Helios969]

To me the only sensible course of action is to have Anora and Alistair marry.  Anora has the political skill and will, and Alistair has a good heart and a strong morale compass.  It also satisfies both sides of the blood vs. marriage rights debate and gives the greatest amount of legitimacy going forward.  If it's about what is best for Fereldan, stability would seem like the best approach.  If it's about what is best for our individual characters, then either way you decide to go is valid.
If the game had forced me to choose between Anora or Alistair, I'd have chosen Anora.  Anora wants and knows how to rule.  Alistair does not want to and lacks leadership experience.  One can learn the latter, but I don't see how anyone can be forced to want to rule.  It seems to me that if one is lacking desire, this is almost certain to breed apathy.  It's hard to imagine how an apathetic ruler can be effective.

[Bratt1204]

IanPolaris wrote...

Alandros wrote...
That's debatable.  A hardened Alistair seems to be a good ruler in the Epilogue slides, but it seems pretty apparent that if he's not hardened he is a very bad governing ruler, which suggests he leaves it to Eamon or the Bann's to have their own way without doing his job.  While Anora is stated as already being a good ruler for 5 years and in the slides she continues to be a good one (if not perfect).

Sorry but it's not really debateable.  The only thing worse than Fereldan if yoiu read the slides than Anora being ruling queen is for an unhardened Alistair to be King.  However, I don't consider that a real option since anyone with a gram of sense should know not to put an unhardened Alistair anywhere near a position of responsibility.

The fact is that Anora cares only about her personal power and not about Fereldan at all.  She proves that with her decisions time and again, and three completely different people confirm this (Arl Eamon, Arl Howe, and Logain himself if you have him as a companion).  Listen to the hardened Alistair when he describes Anora because he has her pegged perfectly:  "....she is her fathers daughter.  Me, I think that's the problem. People like her think that only they can solve problems and that everyone else should just get out of their way."  That's Anora to a tee.  She won't listen, won't consider that maybe, just maybe she might be mistaken about anything.  If that sounds like how Logain went down the sewer, well....you'd be right.

Consider that she won't marry (unless forced to) because she doesn't want to share power even though she knows that having children would be good for Fereldan.  She also has significant civil unrest during her rule which is unlike the other, much better options.  Finally it seems likely she's barren....and she does lie to the PC about being content if the Landsmeet decides to go with Alistair....who btw shows much more wisdom and maturity by merely locking her up in the tower UNTIL the blight is decided or as he puts it, "at least one of us has to deal with the blight responsibly"

Also from the Cousland perspective, Anora is the worst kind of hypocrit by claiming to be sympathies with you and being a follower of your mothers yet doing nothing about it (yet she's supposed to be a good leader)?

Finally consider this:  Not only does Anora have no legal right to the throne (assuming Fereldan uses English Law when it comes to noble inheritance which I think is likely), her right to be considered a noble at all is sketchy at best.  Given Logain's crimes which will certainly cause him to be stripped of his knighthood and title, Anora reverts to being just a farmer's daughter and thus a commoner.

-Polaris

Beautifully stated.

[sylvanaerie]

Drasanil wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
Well that dopey speech Loghain gives after you defeat him at Landsmeet pretty much says a lot about their relationship too.  He may SAY she's a strong queen but she never seems to have the backbone to stand up to Daddy Dearest.  And to him, she's forever 6 years old with pigtails...

Exactly she's daddy's little princess: she got what she wanted because there was no reason for her not to, at the time. She could pretty much always count on either (and/or both) Loghain/Cailan's backing to get what she wanted because there wasn't that much at stake in the first place. Once the darkspawn showed up and Cailan was gone we got to see who was really in charge, it was time for the "grown ups" to take care of things and Anora was sent in her room while daddy and uncle Howe made sur everything was alright.

yea one of the most disconcerting things was to watch my father talking to my grandmother and he still seemed like a little 6 year old boy towards her.  Anora DOES try at the Landsmeet but her father just poopooo's her into silence then stands still so I can kill him

And a question if I may? What happens if you put an unhardened Alistair on the throne? he becomes a runaway king or something?

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 25 février 2010 - 02:26 .

[pudi0072000]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
Well that dopey speech Loghain gives after you defeat him at Landsmeet pretty much says a lot about their relationship too.  He may SAY she's a strong queen but she never seems to have the backbone to stand up to Daddy Dearest.  And to him, she's forever 6 years old with pigtails...

Exactly she's daddy's little princess: she got what she wanted because there was no reason for her not to, at the time. She could pretty much always count on either (and/or both) Loghain/Cailan's backing to get what she wanted because there wasn't that much at stake in the first place. Once the darkspawn showed up and Cailan was gone we got to see who was really in charge, it was time for the "grown ups" to take care of things and Anora was sent in her room while daddy and uncle Howe made sur everything was alright.

yea one of the most disconcerting things was to watch my father talking to my grandmother and he still seemed like a little 6 year old boy towards her.  Anora DOES try at the Landsmeet but her father just poopooo's her into silence then stands still so I can kill him

And a question if I may? What happens if you put an unhardened Alistair on the throne? he becomes a runaway king or something?

He spends his time traveling the country and avoiding court, leaving the responsibilities up to Eamon. People love him since he has the 'common-touch', but as a ruler/leader, he's rubbish.

[SurelyForth]

pudi0072000 wrote...

He spends his time traveling the country and avoiding court, leaving the responsibilities up to Eamon. People love him since he has the 'common-touch', but as a ruler/leader, he's rubbish.

That's why, if your PC is power-hungry, you should leave him unhardened, put him on the throne and become his Chancellor. You pretty much run the country.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 25 février 2010 - 02:33 .

[pudi0072000]

SurelyForth wrote...

pudi0072000 wrote...

He spends his time traveling the country and avoiding court, leaving the responsibilities up to Eamon. People love him since he has the 'common-touch', but as a ruler/leader, he's rubbish.

That's why, if your PC is power-hungry, you should leave him unhardened, put him on the throne and become his Chancellor. You pretty much run the country.

Very true. I never have the heart to do that though - I'd rather let him go off and do the Grey Warden things, since that's  what he wants, un-hardened or hardened. Though he makes a good king, when hardened.

[Drasanil]

SurelyForth wrote...
That's why, if your PC is power-hungry, you should leave him unhardened, put him on the throne and become his Chancellor. You pretty much run the country.

My mage put him on the throne hardened and made herself chancellor, the same thing happened more or less, he rules when he's around but he also trusts you enough to let run you things while he tours the country and meets the people.

[Addai]

Helios969 wrote...

It's amazing how much genuine hate a video game character can foster. The way this thread is rolling along, it'll rival the Zevran one in no time. Who would have thought little old Anora could have this affect on so many people. You'd think she was Sarah Palin or Nancy Pelosi with the amount of zealotry in this thread.

Wow, drama.  I haven't seen "zealotry," let alone "genuine hate," the likes of which I really don't think you're in a position to discern for other people through their typed pixels alone.  People have opinions of the characters and they're voicing them.  There is certainly enough pro-Anora sentiment to balance out the so-called zealots, eh?  Edit P.S. If you want to see zealous indignation over a character, come over to the Abominable Wynne thread. 

Modifié par Addai67, 25 février 2010 - 03:57 .

[krylo]

Helios969 wrote...

To me the only sensible course of action is to have Anora and Alistair marry.  Anora has the political skill and will, and Alistair has a good heart and a strong morale compass.  It also satisfies both sides of the blood vs. marriage rights debate and gives the greatest amount of legitimacy going forward.  If it's about what is best for Fereldan, stability would seem like the best approach.  If it's about what is best for our individual characters, then either way you decide to go is valid.
If the game had forced me to choose between Anora or Alistair, I'd have chosen Anora.  Anora wants and knows how to rule.  Alistair does not want to and lacks leadership experience.  One can learn the latter, but I don't see how anyone can be forced to want to rule.  It seems to me that if one is lacking desire, this is almost certain to breed apathy.  It's hard to imagine how an apathetic ruler can be effective.

Actually in every real world example I've seen, from politicians to cops to lowly forum administrators and debate club captains--WANTING to rule means you will be a ****ty ****ty ruler in most cases and not wanting to and having the power thrust upon you tends to mean you'll be a good ruler.  There are exceptions, of course, but it all comes down to the psychology of ruling... well, anything.

Ruling a country is full of cons and very very few pros if you're going to be fair and even handed about it.  You take responsibility for the people, you take responsibility for the economy, you take responsibility for the military.  You have a lot of work to do and you're going to be the one catching all the flak if something goes wrong--even if it's not actually your fault.  You have to be able to control nobles and peasants alike, and it's just basically a huge pile of ****.

The only pro?  You have power.

People who want to rule, therefore, want power.  Why does anyone want power?  They want to use it.  When a ruler, or a policeman, or anything else ENJOYS using their power, there's a very good chance they'll turn into a despot, using it irresponsibly.

Those who don't want the power, however, are less likely to abuse it.

Someone who doesn't want it won't necessarily be apathetic.  In fact the opposite is true.  They don't want it because they care about the people and are afraid they'll muck it all up.  Someone who DOES want it is far more likely to be apathetic, because they care for furthering their own power, and often that comes with a 'and the people can just go right to hell' attitude.

This only barely pertains to the discussion at hand, but I felt like pointing it out, all the same.

Modifié par krylo, 25 février 2010 - 03:42 .