138 réponses à ce sujet

[Vim]

Nhadalie wrote...

And the being a failed baby maker thing makes me angry. Seriously. Male Grey Wardens can have kids. Why can't female ones?

Actually...they can. It's called being a broodmother...

[qalan]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Doesn't second in rank mean next in line if no successor?

Nope, not at all.  A Duke/Teyrn may be of higher rank than an Earl/Arl, but if the Arl is descended from royal blood - than he would have a better claim, even if outranked by a Teryn.  In medieval Europe, there was always an incredibly tangled mess (that usually led to war) when the direct ruling line died out.  It still seems strange to me that there was not more pressure on Maric to remarry after Queen Rowen died.  Basing one's entire dynasty on a single child (Cailan) would seem to be an incredibly irresponsible thing to do. 

[SarEnyaDor]

You know what I've wondered is who was Maric's father? I read both books, and the all the codex entries (I think) but I don't recall his father ever being mentioned, just that Moira was the Rebel Queen in hiding, moving from area to area trying to keep the rebellion alive when he was born.

[qalan]

Nhadalie wrote...  Seriously. Male Grey Wardens can have kids. Why can't female ones?

Who said they can't?  We know of one female Grey Warden (Fiona) in 'The Calling' who does have a child - though it's said to be a rare thing...

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Yes, same situation with only Alistair left of the bloodline.



I read the books before ever playing and I was floored from Loghain's action at Ostagar, especially reading what Maric and Loghain did to secure the country. My jaw dropped in that cut scene. I still wish I knew why Loghain did what he did.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

qalan wrote...

Nhadalie wrote...  Seriously. Male Grey Wardens can have kids. Why can't female ones?

Who said they can't?  We know of one female Grey Warden (Fiona) in 'The Calling' who does have a child - though it's said to be a rare thing...

I thought this was an interesting twist to the game, if you hadn't read the books you wouldn't know who Al's real mother is.  Thanks for the reminder.  I couldn't remember if Fiona was a GW or not.  I think I'm going to breeze through that book again.

[qalan]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

You know what I've wondered is who was Maric's father? I read both books, and the all the codex entries (I think) but I don't recall his father ever being mentioned, just that Moira was the Rebel Queen in hiding, moving from area to area trying to keep the rebellion alive when he was born.

I don't remember Maric's father ever being mentioned either.  Presumably Moira was married at some point, because Maric's never named as a bastard/illegitimate.  Of course, dynastically speaking, it really doesn't matter who Maric's father was, since it was his mother, Moira, who had the royal blood as the daughter of the last (non-Orleasian) King of Ferelden.  In Scotland, there was wide speculation about  who James VI's father really was, but it didn't really impact his claim to the throne because it was his mother, Mary Queen of Scots who had the royal blood...

[Nhadalie]

qalan wrote...

Nhadalie wrote...  Seriously. Male Grey Wardens can have kids. Why can't female ones?

Who said they can't?  We know of one female Grey Warden (Fiona) in 'The Calling' who does have a child - though it's said to be a rare thing...

It's not a matter of anyone saying they can't. It's a lack of opportunity. Male Wardens have 2 opportunities to have children that I know of. One of which is for a Dwarven Noble before he becomes a Grey Warden. But still. Female Wardens don't seem to get any options to have children. I'm hoping it might change with the ending of Awakening.

Granted, it'd be a bit difficult to continue being Warden Commander while pregnant and later taking care of a child. But I'm pretty sure the Grey Warden PC will not be the same PC in any future games.

Modifié par Nhadalie, 15 mars 2010 - 01:46 .

[qalan]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I thought this was an interesting twist to the game, if you hadn't read the books you wouldn't know who Al's real mother is.  Thanks for the reminder.  I couldn't remember if Fiona was a GW or not.  I think I'm going to breeze through that book again.

I'm not convinced that Fiona was A's real mother.  I don't think it's been definitively stated one way or the other and theire are several indicators (such as Alistair's age) that would seem to argue against it...

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

qalan wrote...

Nhadalie wrote...  Seriously. Male Grey Wardens can have kids. Why can't female ones?

Who said they can't?  We know of one female Grey Warden (Fiona) in 'The Calling' who does have a child - though it's said to be a rare thing...

She was an elf and a mage too if I recall.  I wonder if this is why Al goes to Weisshaupt after becoming king and he is called away to see his mother.  I also wondered if Wynne was Fiona in disquise when I was playing.

[qalan]

sorry, double post...

Modifié par qalan, 15 mars 2010 - 01:49 .

[Stoomkal]

I believe Maric's father is mentioned in one of the Codex entries... I remember him being referenced as a weak king that thankfully had a strong wife...



Darn my weak memory, I cannot remember which entry. Probably in the entries regarding the Orlesian occupation.



Also... David Gaider has said that Alistair is *not confirmed* to be Fiona's child.



Sounds like someone has a book in the works...



On a side note, suggestions that Morrigan and Alistair are related makes the DR pretty rotten. I dislike this whole idea...



I mean, didn't King Arthur and *MORGAINE* (or Morganna) do this?

[SarEnyaDor]

I know Alistair looks a little short (especially when standing next to Sten) but I'm not convinced he's Fiona's son, either.



And I really, really hope that Morrigan isn't what happened when Flemeth and Maric were alone in the hut for three hours, because that makes 75% of my games really icky.

[Herr Uhl]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I know Alistair looks a little short (especially when standing next to Sten) but I'm not convinced he's Fiona's son, either.

And I really, really hope that Morrigan isn't what happened when Flemeth and Maric were alone in the hut for three hours, because that makes 75% of my games really icky.

And the lesson here is that you should spare Loghain more often *stares*

[qalan]

Stoomkal wrote...

I believe Maric's father is mentioned in one of the Codex entries... I remember him being referenced as a weak king that thankfully had a strong wife...

Darn my weak memory, I cannot remember which entry. Probably in the entries regarding the Orlesian occupation.

I think you're referring to Maric's grandfather who was known as 'Brandel, the Defeated' who was unable to hang on to his throne after the Orlesians invaded and killed his own father.  Wikia article on Brandel is at: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Brandel and the codex entry is here: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_Entry%3A_History_of_Ferelden%3A_Chapter_2

Modifié par qalan, 15 mars 2010 - 01:59 .

[SarEnyaDor]

Yeah - and that still leaves Maric's father unnamed.... inquiring minds want to know!

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

qalan wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I thought this was an interesting twist to the game, if you hadn't read the books you wouldn't know who Al's real mother is.  Thanks for the reminder.  I couldn't remember if Fiona was a GW or not.  I think I'm going to breeze through that book again.

I'm not convinced that Fiona was A's real mother.  I don't think it's been definitively stated one way or the other and theire are several indicators (such as Alistair's age) that would seem to argue against it...

She was Al's mother, that is something that I'm certain of.  Maric and Fiona get it on in the deep roads.  Loghain and Queen Rowan have a tryst as well, but I don't remember where that happened off the top of my head.  I think Loghain and Rowan have their fling before Maric and Rowan marry.   Duncan and Fiona visit King Maric at the palace in Denerim nearly a year after their trip to the deep roads and the mess with Bergan, Geneieve, where the Architect story begins.  It's Duncan who carries baby Al in to meet his father for the first time once Fiona and Maric have their private chat.  Maric is the one who turns Al over to Arl Eamon to raise because of Queen Rowan.  It had to be Maric who created the cover story.  Goldanna's mother must have already been pregnant and she died with her child or someone killed her to make the cover story for Alistair. 

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I know Alistair looks a little short (especially when standing next to Sten) but I'm not convinced he's Fiona's son, either.

And I really, really hope that Morrigan isn't what happened when Flemeth and Maric were alone in the hut for three hours, because that makes 75% of my games really icky.

I keep forgetting that Maric and Flemeth have that time in the hut.  Ewwwww.

[Jax Sparrow]

Juneya wrote...

1.7 – If I had a romance in Origins, does it carry over into Awakening? (Back to top)
Romances do not carry forward in Awakening, because you are away from your previous life fighting a new threat.

... Okay, so I'm pretty sure that this glaringly obvious plot hole has to have been answered already. But what does this mean for the PCs who married Alistair and became his queen? If relationships don't carry over... well, what happened??

Don't tell me this decision carries over the same way the ultimate sacrifice did. That would be a little more than really weird.

Oh I am sooo with ya on this one.  My main marries Anora and becomes King... so what happened there?  they just forget to mention something?  This idea of theirs is extremely broken IMHO.  We should at least get an email like Kaiden/Ashley LI's do in ME2.  How hard is it to get a peice of mail delivered?  or write one.  doesn't even require any voice dialog.

Modifié par Jax Sparrow, 15 mars 2010 - 02:13 .

[SarEnyaDor]

You are getting confused - Katriel and Maric got it on in the Deep Roads when Rowan and Loghain did, and Katriel didn't have any children. That was in The STolen Throne... Fiona was in the Calling, and Cailan was like 9 then, so Alistair was already alive.

[SurelyForth]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

You are getting confused - Katriel and Maric got it on in the Deep Roads when Rowan and Loghain did, and Katriel didn't have any children. That was in The STolen Throne... Fiona was in the Calling, and Cailan was like 9 then, so Alistair was already alive.

Cailan was supposed to be 5 in The Calling (David Gaider clarified this).

And we don't know how old Alistair is in the game. I think the closest confirmation has been early to mid-twenties.

[Tamyn]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

She was Al's mother, that is something that I'm certain of.  Maric and Fiona get it on in the deep roads.  Loghain and Queen Rowan have a tryst as well, but I don't remember where that happened off the top of my head.  I think Loghain and Rowan have their fling before Maric and Rowan marry.   Duncan and Fiona visit King Maric at the palace in Denerim nearly a year after their trip to the deep roads and the mess with Bergan, Geneieve, where the Architect story begins.  It's Duncan who carries baby Al in to meet his father for the first time once Fiona and Maric have their private chat.  Maric is the one who turns Al over to Arl Eamon to raise because of Queen Rowan.  It had to be Maric who created the cover story.  Goldanna's mother must have already been pregnant and she died with her child or someone killed her to make the cover story for Alistair. 

Except when Maric impregnates Fiona, Rowan was long dead. When Alistair was born, Rowan was still alive, and Alistair was given to Eamon to spare Rowan's reputation and keep Cailan's standing in the succession secure.

Modifié par Tamyn, 15 mars 2010 - 02:18 .

[SarEnyaDor]

Okay, 5 per correction - Alistair was still born before Rowan died, and she was very much dead in the Calling.

[qalan]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

qalan wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I thought this was an interesting twist to the game, if you hadn't read the books you wouldn't know who Al's real mother is.  Thanks for the reminder.  I couldn't remember if Fiona was a GW or not.  I think I'm going to breeze through that book again.

I'm not convinced that Fiona was A's real mother.  I don't think it's been definitively stated one way or the other and theire are several indicators (such as Alistair's age) that would seem to argue against it...

She was Al's mother, that is something that I'm certain of.  Maric and Fiona get it on in the deep roads.  Loghain and Queen Rowan have a tryst as well, but I don't remember where that happened off the top of my head.  I think Loghain and Rowan have their fling before Maric and Rowan marry.   Duncan and Fiona visit King Maric at the palace in Denerim nearly a year after their trip to the deep roads and the mess with Bergan, Geneieve, where the Architect story begins.  It's Duncan who carries baby Al in to meet his father for the first time once Fiona and Maric have their private chat.  Maric is the one who turns Al over to Arl Eamon to raise because of Queen Rowan.  It had to be Maric who created the cover story.  Goldanna's mother must have already been pregnant and she died with her child or someone killed her to make the cover story for Alistair. 

I'm not trying to be rude, but your believing it does not make it so...  My main concern is that Fiona's baby seems to be too young to be Alistair.  I think you're confusing the timing of Maric's 'fling' with Katriel (another elf) in the Deep Roads (which happened at the same time as Loghain and Rowan) during the Stolen Throne with his 'fling' with Fiona, which happened 14 years later in the Calling (and 2 years after Rowan's death).

For Maric and Fiona to have conceived a child at that point would mean Alistair was about 17 (at most) at the start of the game...  The Calling also has Duncan taking responsibility for watching Fiona's baby and does not mention turning him over to Eamon at all...  The age difference of 13 years between Fiona's baby and Cailan also doesn't jive with the story Alistair tells Wynne about his only boyhood meeting with Cailan ("Ohhh swords...").

Sorry, but there's no conclusive proof/statement one way or the other...

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Page 441 of "The Calling" is where King Maric is presented to his and Fiona's son with Duncan carrying Alistair in. Of course King Maric is stunned and there is no doubt in his mind that this child is his son, the next paragraphs mention Maric seeing how Calian and Alistair favor. Fiona makes mention that being a female grey warden and the odds of having a child are rare but here is Alistair as proof that it is possible. So this is also the reason that HNF doesn't have that hard of a time getting Al to marry her.  Also, why Alistair makes the comment that one Grey Warden can have a child, not sure of two. Next few paragraphs is where Fiona asks that Alistair never know that she is alive or that she is his mother.  She was a mage and an elf. She asks that her son get a fresh start in the world from her heritage.  Maric concurs, and the deal is stuck for the cover story of Alistairs birth.  Maric agrees to raise the child away from court, this is where Arl Eamon is a part of Alistairs story.  Fiona also mentions that if a female Grey Warden does have a child the order says that female Grey Warden's have to give their child up.  Fiona takes off her amulet and asks that her son be given this.  Duncan is the go between to keep Maric informed and Fiona informed of their son.

How much Duncan told Alistair of the truth is not known, nor how much Arl Eamon knew except that Maric was the boy's father.  Last page and a half of the novel is where Fiona and Maric say their final goodbyes and Maric asks Fiona if he will ever see her again.  She says no.  Fiona was stationed at Weisshaupt Fortress.  

My copy of the novel is 444 pages in length.  


We know that Darkspawn can reproduce and so can Grey Wardens.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 15 mars 2010 - 02:55 .