144 réponses à ce sujet

[Pauravi]

aeetos21 wrote...

Either I'm completely misreading your comment or you are saying that people can choose not to enjoy the orgasm sex provides.

No no no, nothing like that.  Let me see if I can think of another way to explain...

What I am saying is that knowing how an emotion happens is not the same as knowing how the emotion feels.  In other words, the actual experience of having an emotion is something that happens on a different level.  How do we know that chemical processes are the only way to produce an emotion?  If you had a brain that was constructed of wires and switches instead of neurons, and you had different voltage levels instead of different neurotransmitters, could you create a system that could can produce a self-aware being with emotions?

I guess I'm boiling it down to this point:
Assuming you don't know what either of them are, you can't look at a
circuit board and know that it is incapable of having feelings any more
than you can look at a brain and know that it IS capable of having feelings.

[wolfstanus]

Just because they are differnt people don't and are unwilling to except them for more than what they are preceived as... Vorcha=vermin Guarians=beggers/scavengers Geth/AI= created inteligence/not real/apliances.l.

On created inteligence... organic inteligence was created... so are we not real? I mean our brains were created so we can't be real... Its all relative.

Modifié par wolfstanus, 24 février 2010 - 11:12 .

[PingoBlack]

Peavio wrote...
edi does what she is created to do

Again you are being racist. EDI is self aware, she chooses to help you.

You really should consider advanced AI as a life form, just not organic one. As Legion says, organics fear inorganic life, he called it a hardware error.

Modifié par PingoBlack, 24 février 2010 - 11:22 .

[Big I]

aeetos21 wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The anti-Geth arguments seem to boil down to either "AI are too different from us to qualify as 'life'", or "AI are too different from us to be trusted, and thus should be destroyed."

In Bioware terms it probably IS that simple, lol. But there are a few key differences. One is that people can understand the vorcha and krogan and rachni better since they are organic, they're animals, and governed by the same chemistry we as people are. Also they don't pose as serious a threat as the geth potentially do.

Legion could replay every conversation he had on the Normandy in the time it took for Shepard to ask a question. The power a potential enemy like that can have is very unnerving separating the geth altogether from the other races that don't appear humanoid in form.

The hanar are floating jellyfish that communicate in flashes of light; this is not enough reason to accept distrust of them from the average Alliance citizen, were it to exist. Quarians and turians have a different underlying chemical structure, a fundamentally alien biology. Salarians actually THINK faster than we do. Why is it easier to understand them than it is to understand the geth? Legion shows that they are not incomprehensible.

As to danger, the rachni and krogans led galactic wars against the Council. The turians have the most militant culture imaginable, and the largest military. Even an individual, independent asari Maiden will have, minimum, 2 or 3 times the experience of the average human. Everyone's dangerous; HUMANS are dangerous. You can't eliminate or right off entire species because of  what they might do.

[wolfstanus]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The anti-Geth arguments seem to boil down to either "AI are too different from us to qualify as 'life'", or "AI are too different from us to be trusted, and thus should be destroyed."

In Bioware terms it probably IS that simple, lol. But there are a few key differences. One is that people can understand the vorcha and krogan and rachni better since they are organic, they're animals, and governed by the same chemistry we as people are. Also they don't pose as serious a threat as the geth potentially do.

Legion could replay every conversation he had on the Normandy in the time it took for Shepard to ask a question. The power a potential enemy like that can have is very unnerving separating the geth altogether from the other races that don't appear humanoid in form.

The hanar are floating jellyfish that communicate in flashes of light; this is not enough reason to accept distrust of them from the average Alliance citizen, were it to exist. Quarians and turians have a different underlying chemical structure, a fundamentally alien biology. Salarians actually THINK faster than we do. Why is it easier to understand them than it is to understand the geth? Legion shows that they are not incomprehensible.

As to danger, the rachni and krogans led galactic wars against the Council. The turians have the most militant culture imaginable, and the largest military. Even an individual, independent asari Maiden will have, minimum, 2 or 3 times the experience of the average human. Everyone's dangerous; HUMANS are dangerous. You can't eliminate or right off entire species because of  what they might do.

The problem is that what we do its in our nature... If its differnt we hate it or don't acknoledge it.

If my spelling is off its because im tired.

Modifié par wolfstanus, 24 février 2010 - 11:20 .

[Big I]

wolfstanus wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The anti-Geth arguments seem to boil down to either "AI are too different from us to qualify as 'life'", or "AI are too different from us to be trusted, and thus should be destroyed."

In Bioware terms it probably IS that simple, lol. But there are a few key differences. One is that people can understand the vorcha and krogan and rachni better since they are organic, they're animals, and governed by the same chemistry we as people are. Also they don't pose as serious a threat as the geth potentially do.

Legion could replay every conversation he had on the Normandy in the time it took for Shepard to ask a question. The power a potential enemy like that can have is very unnerving separating the geth altogether from the other races that don't appear humanoid in form.

The hanar are floating jellyfish that communicate in flashes of light; this is not enough reason to accept distrust of them from the average Alliance citizen, were it to exist. Quarians and turians have a different underlying chemical structure, a fundamentally alien biology. Salarians actually THINK faster than we do. Why is it easier to understand them than it is to understand the geth? Legion shows that they are not incomprehensible.

As to danger, the rachni and krogans led galactic wars against the Council. The turians have the most militant culture imaginable, and the largest military. Even an individual, independent asari Maiden will have, minimum, 2 or 3 times the experience of the average human. Everyone's dangerous; HUMANS are dangerous. You can't eliminate or right off entire species because of  what they might do.

The problem is that what we do its in our nature... If its differnt we hate it or don't acknoledge it.

If my spelling is off its because im tired.

In real life, radically different lifestyles and cultures can learn to co-exist and respect each other, even if they don't always agree. Hatred and indifference are not absolute; they can be conquered.

[wolfstanus]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

wolfstanus wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The anti-Geth arguments seem to boil down to either "AI are too different from us to qualify as 'life'", or "AI are too different from us to be trusted, and thus should be destroyed."

In Bioware terms it probably IS that simple, lol. But there are a few key differences. One is that people can understand the vorcha and krogan and rachni better since they are organic, they're animals, and governed by the same chemistry we as people are. Also they don't pose as serious a threat as the geth potentially do.

Legion could replay every conversation he had on the Normandy in the time it took for Shepard to ask a question. The power a potential enemy like that can have is very unnerving separating the geth altogether from the other races that don't appear humanoid in form.

The hanar are floating jellyfish that communicate in flashes of light; this is not enough reason to accept distrust of them from the average Alliance citizen, were it to exist. Quarians and turians have a different underlying chemical structure, a fundamentally alien biology. Salarians actually THINK faster than we do. Why is it easier to understand them than it is to understand the geth? Legion shows that they are not incomprehensible.

As to danger, the rachni and krogans led galactic wars against the Council. The turians have the most militant culture imaginable, and the largest military. Even an individual, independent asari Maiden will have, minimum, 2 or 3 times the experience of the average human. Everyone's dangerous; HUMANS are dangerous. You can't eliminate or right off entire species because of  what they might do.

The problem is that what we do its in our nature... If its differnt we hate it or don't acknoledge it.

If my spelling is off its because im tired.

In real life, radically different lifestyles and cultures can learn to co-exist and respect each other, even if they don't always agree. Hatred and indifference are not absolute; they can be conquered.

In time and with constant contact... I mean most races in ME don't get along at all same with RL in reguards to religon. If its different we hate it but eventually after a while of contact we will accept it but not fully.

[PingoBlack]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

In real life, radically different lifestyles and cultures can learn to co-exist and respect each other, even if they don't always agree. Hatred and indifference are not absolute; they can be conquered.

That is why Legion calls our fear of inorganic life a hardware flaw. AI inteligence like them does not fully understand emotional responses. Like baseless fear.

As far as this goes in ME universe, it's a breaking point in ME2. A really big one.
You and your crew are among the first organic life in the galaxy that has established a stable working relationships with advanced AI. I would say friendly, but that would be too much of a stretch for AI.

I'm pretty sure these relationships will be vital to defeating the reapers in the end.

Modifié par PingoBlack, 24 février 2010 - 11:29 .

[Daerog]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

In real life, radically different lifestyles and cultures can learn to co-exist and respect each other, even if they don't always agree. Hatred and indifference are not absolute; they can be conquered.

Sure, to an extent. I don't think a culture that believes that they must kill everything in order to reboot the galaxy can co-exist with other cultures.

[ExtremeOne]

The Geth are living creatures and the Quarians where wrong in what they did

[wolfstanus]

ExtremeOne wrote...

The Geth are living creatures and the Quarians where wrong in what they did

All sides are wrong but thats a differnt topic

[Big I]

PingoBlack wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

In real life, radically different lifestyles and cultures can learn to co-exist and respect each other, even if they don't always agree. Hatred and indifference are not absolute; they can be conquered.

That is why Legion calls our fear of inorganic life a hardware flaw. AI inteligence like them does not fully understand emotional responses. Like baseless fear.

As far as this goes in ME universe, it's a breaking point in ME2. A really big one.
You and your crew are among the first organic life in the galaxy that has established a stable working relationships with advanced AI. I would say friendly, but that would be too much of a stretch for AI.

I'm pretty sure these relationships will be vital to defeating the reapers in the end.

I agree completely. Look at how much EDI did for the mission in ME2.

The prejudice agaisnt AI always bugged me. If you take Garrus to the AI side mission on the presidium in ME, he says that AIs, once found, are universally destroyed. WTH? You find something, it's alive, and for no other reason than it is alive, you kill it. Ridiculous.

[Swiftlink]

AI wont necessarily think much faster than us our brain is a lot different than a computer today we really dont know how an AI would work so geth are as much technological robots as we are biological robots

[Daerog]

PingoBlack wrote...

That is why Legion calls our fear of inorganic life a hardware flaw. AI inteligence like them does not fully understand emotional responses. Like baseless fear.

As far as this goes in ME universe, it's a breaking point in ME2. A really big one.
You and your crew are among the first organic life in the galaxy that has established a stable working relationships with advanced AI. I would say friendly, but that would be too much of a stretch for AI.

I'm pretty sure these relationships will be vital to defeating the reapers in the end.

We were the first to develop friendly relations with AI? We don't know anything about the millions of other alien cultures that came before us, there may have been AI before that the Reapers decided to destroy as well since they generally try to destroy most of the previous species' existence.

Also, geth were made, what? 500 or so years ago? Maybe less? That's not very long and not surprising no one else has become friendly with them since they were isolated for most of that time.

Just making some points, not trying to dismiss your opinion... too tired to make sure my post sounds nice...

[wolfstanus]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

PingoBlack wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

In real life, radically different lifestyles and cultures can learn to co-exist and respect each other, even if they don't always agree. Hatred and indifference are not absolute; they can be conquered.

That is why Legion calls our fear of inorganic life a hardware flaw. AI inteligence like them does not fully understand emotional responses. Like baseless fear.

As far as this goes in ME universe, it's a breaking point in ME2. A really big one.
You and your crew are among the first organic life in the galaxy that has established a stable working relationships with advanced AI. I would say friendly, but that would be too much of a stretch for AI.

I'm pretty sure these relationships will be vital to defeating the reapers in the end.

I agree completely. Look at how much EDI did for the mission in ME2.

The prejudice agaisnt AI always bugged me. If you take Garrus to the AI side mission on the presidium in ME, he says that AIs, once found, are universally destroyed. WTH? You find something, it's alive, and for no other reason than it is alive, you kill it. Ridiculous.

Rachni are seen only as bugs and are exterminated but we see they are not just "bugs"

Modifié par wolfstanus, 24 février 2010 - 11:36 .

[ZennExile]

Treating other species like you would treat yer own is racist.

[Gill Kaiser]

OP is as short sighted as he is terrible at punctuation.

[PingoBlack]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The prejudice agaisnt AI always bugged me. If you take Garrus to the AI side mission on the presidium in ME, he says that AIs, once found, are universally destroyed. WTH? You find something, it's alive, and for no other reason than it is alive, you kill it. Ridiculous.

This is also relevant to the reply a bit later.

Yes, there seems to be no record of cooperation with AI, even on Ilos Potheans stopped just short of building an AI. My theory is that this is by design ... reaper design.

Reapers are the one group that stands to loose most if organics learn to co-exist with advanced AI. You saw what EDI could do to their firewalls. Organics alone cannot defeat them, but with AI help?

They sure have tons of reasons to keep sentient AI and organics away from each other.

[wolfstanus]

Its all relative. We may see geth as a math/software failure. they can see us as a mutation/math error or something to that effect. its all point of view.

Modifié par wolfstanus, 24 février 2010 - 11:44 .

[Gill Kaiser]

I see the Geth as one of the most interesting phenomenae on the Galactic stage. The idea that there will eventually be a Dyson-sphere-like sentient superintelligent superstructure present in the Milky Way makes the whole Galaxy more interesting. It'd be a travesty to remove such an interesting race from existence.