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[Zulu_DFA]

Cameos as NPC are prefereable for character development!



Garrus is my favorite alien squadmate from ME1 and second (to Mordin) favorite in ME2. His comeback in ME 2 was a bit depressing. Half the game he was calibrating something. Should there be no "Shepard's death" plot twist it would have been 80% of the time. Actually what can you talk to Garrus about? He gave you his bio in ME1 and in ME2 he just updated you about what you missed. Ant it was quite a shallow story (I went to kill the bad guys, but they bought one of my guys, fooled me and killed all my other guys. ... Bam! Bam! Bam! [bad guys die] ... Let's go kill that guy!). After that only a single tale about how he got laid with a cool turian chick. And unless you were about to scrog him, he had nothing more to say to you. What is Garrus without Shepard?



On the other hand, Ashley with her 2 minute cameo didn't dissapoint me at all. I could see she moved on, was on her way up in the world, was all about her business, and bold enough to secondguess my decisions and loyalties. Same with Liara. Although the direction her character evolved in was kinda surprising, it was still plausible.



Returning to Garrus. He could well have been in place of Cpt. Bailey as C-Sec captain. And have alternate "character-developed" versions of himself: running everything by the book, if "paragonized" in ME1, or ruthless thug if "renegaded" in ME1. That would have been a hell of an impact, choices matter and stuff. As it is I can see people complaining that they don't see the results of their "mentoring" of Garrus in ME1.

[Ecael]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cameos as NPC are prefereable for character development!

Garrus is my favorite alien squadmate from ME1 and second (to Mordin) favorite in ME2. His comeback in ME 2 was a bit depressing. Half the game he was calibrating something. Should there be no "Shepard's death" plot twist it would have been 80% of the time. Actually what can you talk to Garrus about? He gave you his bio in ME1 and in ME2 he just updated you about what you missed. Ant it was quite a shallow story (I went to kill the bad guys, but they bought one of my guys, fooled me and killed all my other guys. ... Bam! Bam! Bam! [bad guys die] ... Let's go kill that guy!). After that only a single tale about how he got laid with a cool turian chick. And unless you were about to scrog him, he had nothing more to say to you. What is Garrus without Shepard?

On the other hand, Ashley with her 2 minute cameo didn't dissapoint me at all. I could see she moved on, was on her way up in the world, was all about her business, and bold enough to secondguess my decisions and loyalties. Same with Liara. Although the direction her character evolved in was kinda surprising, it was still plausible.

Returning to Garrus. He could well have been in place of Cpt. Bailey as C-Sec captain. And have alternate "character-developed" versions of himself: running everything by the book, if "paragonized" in ME1, or ruthless thug if "renegaded" in ME1. That would have been a hell of an impact, choices matter and stuff. As it is I can see people complaining that they don't see the results of their "mentoring" of Garrus in ME1.

It's highly unlikely that Garrus would have returned to C-Sec after learning of the imminent danger of the Reapers. The galaxy got lucky that the Reapers only started gathering humans for their experiment.

As I mentioned before, after Shepard died, the majority of squadmates took up suicidal tasks, jobs and missions. Why wouldn't they if they knew the galaxy was going to end someday?

[badrobot2]

Zulu_DFA wrote…
After that only a single tale about how he got laid with a cool turian chick. And unless you were about to scrog him, he had nothing more to say to you. What is Garrus without Shepard?

I knew it! Zula_DFA is really borchtbeet in disguise!

[Zulu_DFA]

Ecael wrote...

It's highly unlikely that Garrus would have returned to C-Sec after learning of the imminent danger of the Reapers.

Actually Garrus says something about his attempt to rejoin the C-Sec or apply for Spectre candidate after the Normandy destruction (depending on the ME1 dialogue) but giving up quickly and then going to Omega.

badrobot2 wrote...

I knew it! Zula_DFA is really borchtbeet in disguise!

No, I just got influenced by someone's point of vview, after I read on Wiki that Garrus gets loyal even if you warn Sidonis and prevent him from being shot. What sort of character does Garrus have if it can be "developed" on the spot when his finger is already laying on the trigger?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 février 2010 - 01:53 .

[Nozybidaj]

Ecael wrote...
 You should be glad that they're saving the love interests from ME1 for the end instead of killing them off permanently.

Well like everyone in this thread keeps saying, no one is getting killed off permanently.  The whole point of this thread is in direct opposition to that.  So are the folks in ME2 killed off permantently or not?

Oh, and yeah, I'm totally psyched that my trilogy was cut down to two chapters. <_<

[Zulu_DFA]

Nozybidaj wrote...
I'm totally psyched that my trilogy was cut down to two chapters. <_<

With all due respect (you know what it means, don't you?),  it's not your trilogy.

[Driveninhifi]

Ashley's reaction if she was the LI was believable, but her reasons for not joining up are pretty contrived. She's human, knows colonies are being eradicated, just saw one get totally wiped out and saw Shepard save what was left. Yeah, she could hate Cerberus, but so do Garrus and Tali and they get over it pretty freaking fast. She has a much better reason to join than either of the two.



Liara also is pretty weak - partially because they chose to develop her character in a comic instead of the game and partially because they set her up as this interesting conflicted character then do nothing with the potential. If she's the love interest the conversation seems even more unnatural because the options Shepard gets aren't realistic for someone that's in love with her.

Liara: "I couldn't let you go and I feel terrible giving you to them! I'm so sorry!"

Shepard: "It's ok, gotta do my mission, see ya" or "Yeah you're a terrible selfish person"

Neither are appropriate or believable responses unless Shepard doesn't care about her or is a callous jerk - which should be options, but forcing that on the player is pretty poor.

[Nozybidaj]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...
I'm totally psyched that my trilogy was cut down to two chapters. <_<

With all due respect (you know what it means, don't you?),  it's not your trilogy.

My Shepard's story is certainly my trilogy.  That's kinda the point, otherwise just make a movie.

[Lvl20DM]

They set up Liara to be an interesting and conflicted character, and then do nothing with it in this game. But I'm betting it will be picked up in ME 3. I think that they will actually address the conflict of their status as love interests if Shep pursued another relationship during ME 2. Hell, the devs have actually said that.



I'm seeing lots of hyperbole in this thread. The idea that it would be a waste of time to recruit "14 new squad-mates" as an example. First, who said their would be 14 squad-mates in ME 3? They could reduce the number of squadies from 11 (12?) to 8 or 9. ME 1 was fine with only 6! It actually makes sense if the focus is not building a squad, but rather on a more involved main plot (like the first game).



I'm not opposed to some squad-mates returning, but I actually am opposed to all of them returning. It will hurt the game more than help it. We need new allies to expand the next game. I saw stuff like this before ME 2 came out. I think hand-wringing over story-points to be baffling. ME 2 turned out great, particularly in the character department. ME 3 will almost certainly be the same no matter what the devs decide to do.

[DrSpoonbender]

Right now I am assuming all LIs (love interest) will be included in ME3.



Players (customers) have expectations that they will be able to play out the relationships that they’ve cultivated in their story. The insertion of a dead-end in the final would repudiate their investment in the story they want told. We saw this concern in ME2 with players with selected LIs from the original ME.



If this is reasonable to believe, this would leave little to no room for any additional characters in my opinion.



I didn’t feel the interaction in ME2 was nearly as good as in ME. I can’t quantify my reasoning for believing this, but I speculate that it was the result of limited resources.



This leads me to my concern over the number of characters (the number of possible LIs are 9). Not that I want to limit them (I have posted support for the inclusion of various characters). I have had such a delight playing the Mass Effect series, and I suspect from my previous experience with Bioware that the conclusion will be equally thrilling; I just want to reduce the number of “I wish they could have…”



Could the inclusion of more ancillary characters be appropriately handled through DLC and the payment of a nominal fee?



I however do not find Zaeed Massani a very good example of this.

[Ecael]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ecael wrote...

It's highly unlikely that Garrus would have returned to C-Sec after learning of the imminent danger of the Reapers.

Actually Garrus says something about his attempt to rejoin the C-Sec or apply for Spectre candidate after the Normandy destruction (depending on the ME1 dialogue) but giving up quickly and then going to Omega.

Spectre or mercenary hunter, it's clear he wants a job that doesn't get bogged down by red tape, even if it means putting his life on the line. Each of the ME1 characters knows that they can either die fighting or die fighting the Reapers.

Well like everyone in this thread keeps saying, no one is getting
killed off permanently.  The whole point of this thread is in direct
opposition to that.  So are the folks in ME2 killed off permantently or
not?

Oh, and yeah, I'm totally psyched that my trilogy was cut down to two chapters.

Most people in the thread are either saying this:
1. None of the returning characters will be squadmates (they will be cameos)
2. All of the returning characters will be squadmates

Neither suggests someone being killed off permanently. I'm arguing that neither option is reasonable.

My Shepard's story is certainly my trilogy.  That's kinda the point, otherwise just make a movie.

Liara's story, however, is not a trilogy. I know the lack of screentime for Liara left a gaping hole for a lot of her fans, but I'm sure there was an in-depth mission or story (or even prologue) waiting for her - they just didn't have the time to finish it or they couldn't find an appropriate place to put it without alienating new players. The ME comic shouldn't have to be the source for Liara's backstory, but that's what they decided on.

Ashley's reaction if she was the LI was believable, but her reasons for
not joining up are pretty contrived. She's human, knows colonies are
being eradicated, just saw one get totally wiped out and saw Shepard
save what was left. Yeah, she could hate Cerberus, but so do Garrus and
Tali and they get over it pretty freaking fast. She has a much better
reason to join than either of the two.

Ashley's appearance was downright terrible. She almost has the same lines as Kaidan despite being very xenophobic. She would have been a perfect fit for Miranda's Cerberus division - even moreso than Jacob.

I'm seeing lots of hyperbole in this thread. The idea that it would be
a waste of time to recruit "14 new squad-mates" as an example. First,
who said their would be 14 squad-mates in ME 3? They could reduce the
number of squadies from 11 (12?) to 8 or 9. ME 1 was fine with only 6!
It actually makes sense if the focus is not building a squad, but
rather on a more involved main plot (like the first game).

If someone told you that Mass Effect 2 will have 13 possible squadmates, would you call it hyperbole? BioWare has been steadily increasing the number of squadmates in their Unreal Engine 3 based games (Mass Effect and Dragon Age). Mass Effect 3 is going to be the end of a massive gaming trilogy, one where you can continue your character to the next game, not just expansion (which is unheard of these days). Why would they start decreasing the number now?

Personally, I wouldn't have minded if they had only 6 squadmates for ME2 and used those extra 12 missions from the other 6 missing characters on uncovering the Collector threat and preparing the Normandy for a real firefight. Instead, they went for quantity over quality by 1-upping Dragon Age's 10 possible companions and giving us 12 (with another one on the way). That is more than double the original.

Since BioWare is clearly going to stick with quantity, the choices are:
A. Should they be half returning characters, half new?
B. Should they be all new while all returning characters are reduced to cameos?
C. Should they be all returning characters?

B is a major problem because it is likely that BioWare will include around 12, 13, or even 14+ squadmates for Mass Effect 3. C is a major problem because any of them can die in the final mission, but many of them often survive the final mission as well.

I think everyone can agree at this point that A is the best choice, and the most logical one for BioWare. Even if that means Garrus performing more calibrations and Tali cleaning up the engine more often.

This leads me to my concern over the number of characters (the
number of possible LIs are 9). Not that I want to limit them (I have
posted support for the inclusion of various characters). I have had
such a delight playing the Mass Effect series, and I suspect from my
previous experience with Bioware that the conclusion will be equally
thrilling; I just want to reduce the number of “I wish they could
have…”

I honestly think Thane and Jack are the least likely to return as squadmates in ME3, only because they are both suffering from uncurable physical or mental illness. The romance option is really just a fling, in that case.

Modifié par Ecael, 25 février 2010 - 02:50 .

[Multifarious Algorithm]

There are a couple of characters which I'd say are definitely out as potential squadmates after ME2 with the Normandy:

• Thane (will actually be dead/on his death bed since the rumor is ME3 takes place 1 year later and he says he has at most 12 months to live).
• Samara (either is going to continue her justicar mission or was switched with Morinth and needs to be killed, badly - probably as a side-mission - or, is [Samara] going to try and kill renegade Shepard.)
• Zaeed (he's a mercenary - his job is done, he probably retires with all his Cerberus gold)
• Kasumi (if she exists, she's a thief who well, isn't going to stick around for much the same reasons as Zaeed)

Then there are the one's who are probably out -

• Mordin (he is damn old for a Salarian)

And then there are the one's which we can exclude with IMO weaker reasoning:

• Jack (pretty much still crazy regardless of what you do and hates Miranda, even if everyone quits Cerberus - counter-argument: maybe she finds a purpose working with Shepard and takes up a position as a crew-member. Doubt it though.)

To me, that leaves (for varying reasons): Grunt, Tali, Garrus, Legion, Miranda and Jacob.

My high money is that we definitely get Legion as a squad member, since technically speaking he can't die, he just won't remember doing the mission with Shepard - he'll remember whatever his last backup was.

Tali and Garrus I'd say are in because the fanbase loves them.

Don't know about Grunt, Miranda or Jacob. But, all three don't have any in-universe reasons to actually leave the Normandy since Miranda and Jacob quit Cerberus and Grunt just loves killing big things with Shepard.

More importantly though, that list of 6 squad mates leaves plenty of room to add some new ones.

Modifié par Multifarious Algorithm, 25 février 2010 - 03:13 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Ecael wrote...
I think everyone can agree at this point that A is the best choice, and the most logical one for BioWare. Even if that means Garrus performing more calibrations and Tali cleaning up the engine more often.

Amen! I officially request that Tali love thread be renamed to "Keep your engine clean" and Garrus adoration thread be renamed to "Calibrate this!"

BTW, I killed Jack off, yet I find her character quite interesting and one of the most suited for further development. Her early childhood as well as some other essential parts of her story remain dark (What age was she exactly when TIM got her? What age is she now? How she ended up on the Purgatory?), and she could finally "snap out of it", especially if Shepard romanced her.

[Lvl20DM]

I'm assuming that the large number of squad-mates in ME 2 is directly related to the fact that recruiting the squad and earning their loyalty really is the story. It's what Shep is doing throughout the game and it motivates the vast majority of the individual missions. ME 1 had less squad-mates because the focus of the game was on introducing the Universe, the main arc of the trilogy, and the direct plot of dealing with Saren and the Geth. We don't know the plot of ME 3, but if it is similar to ME 1 in structure, I fully expect less than 12 squad-mates. If it really is recruiting a new squad for a new suicide mission (unlikely, imo) then, sure, 10 to 14 squad-mates seems plausible.



I'm thinking on each squad-mate, and why they might leave between the second and third game. Here are some ideas:



-Thane: he's dying; he might die between games, or be so ill that he can no longer travel with Shep. Plus, he might want to reconnect with his son before he dies.

-Jack: has stated that she intends to leave. Will probably do so. She's got a lot of problems to work out.

-Tali: Joins the Admiralty Board. She is very devoted to her people, this is the next natural step for this character.

-Grunt: Goes to Tuchanka, joins the Clan Urdnot cause.

-Samara: Continues her travels as a Justicar.

-Mordin: becomes involved in important scientific research related to either the Reapers or the Genophage.

-Garrus: this one is tough. Garrus doesn't really discuss plans for the future. I could see him being very important in the fight against the Reapers without being on the Squad.

-Legion: this guy could be on your squad in ME 3. His unique Geth nature could make death less than permanent. He might also return to his people with a wealth of data on the rest of the Galaxy.

-Miranda: not sure. This could depend on what you do with the Collector base. She can actually quit Cerberus in some play-throughs. I'm curious as to why her father is left intentionally vague, could come into play in the next game.

-Jacob: again, not sure. I suspect that he will leave Cerberus. I could see him being the head of security on a lawless space station or something like that. Any place a no nonsense bad ass makes sense.

[Ecael]

To me, that leaves (for varying reasons): Grunt, Tali, Garrus, Legion, Miranda and Jacob.

Someone agrees, even with the same characters

Tali - Clear fan favorite since ME1 and integral part of the quarian story, love interest
Garrus - Clear fan favorite since ME1, love interest
Legion - Can survive whether you kill him, keep him inactive or send him to Cerberus.
Miranda - Most difficult squadmate to get killed in the suicide mission, quits Cerberus to side with Shepard
Jacob - Can easily side with Shepard at the end and quit Cerberus as well
Grunt - This may not be a good excuse, but why would BioWare want to design a third Krogan character (unless it were female?)

As for the others, I already listed why they are unlikely to come back:
-Samara/Morinth (Samara said she might try to kill Shepard herself, Morinth is obvious)
-Thane (Terminal illness, may be able to see him one last time before he dies)
-Jack (Neurological illness, may continue to degenerate and leaves)
-Mordin (Too old, easily dies in the suicide mission)
-Zaeed (Bounty hunter, only does what he is paid for)
-Kasumi (Too late to develop a large fanbase, won't have a compelling backstory)

[Ecael]

BTW, I killed Jack off, yet I find her character quite interesting and
one of the most suited for further development. Her early childhood as
well as some other essential parts of her story remain dark (What age
was she exactly when TIM got her? What age is she now? How she ended up
on the Purgatory?), and she could finally "snap out of it", especially
if Shepard romanced her.

I actually found her character quite interesting too, but I don't think she's cured by her loyalty mission or by the romance. I doubt she'll start treating other people differently unless it were Shepard. Soon enough she'll become a liability to the rest of the crew.

At least Grunt had a clearcut solution to his rage problem; Jack simply cannot be cured from all the trauma she's endured throughout her life, and I'm sure there's a physical cost to having extreme biotic powers for a human.

Modifié par Ecael, 25 février 2010 - 03:24 .

[ExtremeOne]

If Miranda is not in Mass Effect 3 then I will have my own version of Order 66 from Revenge of the Sith and kill every member of My Mass Effect 3 squad.

[ExtremeOne]

Ecael wrote...

To me, that leaves (for varying reasons): Grunt, Tali, Garrus, Legion, Miranda and Jacob.

Someone agrees, even with the same characters

Tali - Clear fan favorite since ME1 and integral part of the quarian story, love interest
Garrus - Clear fan favorite since ME1, love interest
Legion - Can survive whether you kill him, keep him inactive or send him to Cerberus.
Miranda - Most difficult squadmate to get killed in the suicide mission, quits Cerberus to side with Shepard
Jacob - Can easily side with Shepard at the end and quit Cerberus as well
Grunt - This may not be a good excuse, but why would BioWare want to design a third Krogan character (unless it were female?)

As for the others, I already listed why they are unlikely to come back:
-Samara/Morinth (Samara said she might try to kill Shepard herself, Morinth is obvious)
-Thane (Terminal illness, may be able to see him one last time before he dies)
-Jack (Neurological illness, may continue to degenerate and leaves)
-Mordin (Too old, easily dies in the suicide mission)
-Zaeed (Bounty hunter, only does what he is paid for)
-Kasumi (Too late to develop a large fanbase, won't have a compelling backstory)

  


I made sure Tali is dead in my games so she better remain dead in My ME 3 play through 

[Ecael]

Dunno:

Wrex/Grunt

I'd love to see Wrex back, but he's
probably one of the few things holding the krogan together. Grunt would
probably be important on the homeworld as well.

As I mentioned before, I just don't see BioWare making a third Krogan character. I could be wrong, though. My idea:

**It is highly unlikely that Urdnot Grunt and Urdnot Wrex will both be dead in more than a few imports, therefore:
      -Wrex dead, Grunt alive - Grunt goes with you on your mission
      -Grunt dead, Wrex alive - Wrex goes with you on your mission
      -Wrex dead, Grunt dead - No Krogan squadmate for you! (or you get a placeholder/Vorcha squadmate, ha!)

Also, if both are alive, only Grunt goes with you. A Charm/Intimidate option to take Wrex too is possible.

Story-wise, it makes perfect sense:
      -If you kill Wrex and Grunt remains alive, Wreav continues leading Tuchanka like he always does and you remain as Grunt's battlemaster
      -If you kill Grunt and Wrex remains alive, Wrex knows the urgency of defending against the Reapers and leaves Tuchanka in Wreav's hands (even if it means destroying everything he's built)
      -If both Wrex and Grunt remain alive, Wrex knows the urgency of defending against the Reapers, but he has entrusted Urdnot Grunt to do his job for him.
      -If both Wrex and Grunt are dead, then you don't deserve a Krogan squadmate - you get an outcast Vorcha squadmate who only has the mental capacity to fight with little dialogue (which is the case for most of them). He still has the same regenerative powers as Wrex and Grunt though.

[Ecael]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Ecael wrote...

To me, that leaves (for varying reasons): Grunt, Tali, Garrus, Legion, Miranda and Jacob.

Someone agrees, even with the same characters

Tali - Clear fan favorite since ME1 and integral part of the quarian story, love interest
Garrus - Clear fan favorite since ME1, love interest
Legion - Can survive whether you kill him, keep him inactive or send him to Cerberus.
Miranda - Most difficult squadmate to get killed in the suicide mission, quits Cerberus to side with Shepard
Jacob - Can easily side with Shepard at the end and quit Cerberus as well
Grunt - This may not be a good excuse, but why would BioWare want to design a third Krogan character (unless it were female?)

As for the others, I already listed why they are unlikely to come back:
-Samara/Morinth (Samara said she might try to kill Shepard herself, Morinth is obvious)
-Thane (Terminal illness, may be able to see him one last time before he dies)
-Jack (Neurological illness, may continue to degenerate and leaves)
-Mordin (Too old, easily dies in the suicide mission)
-Zaeed (Bounty hunter, only does what he is paid for)
-Kasumi (Too late to develop a large fanbase, won't have a compelling backstory)

  


I made sure Tali is dead in my games so she better remain dead in My ME 3 play through 

She will stay dead, and you'll just have one less squadmate to take with you (not really a big deal). Canon ME3 Shepard would have her survive as well as other important five, though.

Modifié par Ecael, 25 février 2010 - 03:34 .

[ExtremeOne]

Ecael wrote...

Dunno:

Wrex/Grunt

I'd love to see Wrex back, but he's
probably one of the few things holding the krogan together. Grunt would
probably be important on the homeworld as well.

As I mentioned before, I just don't see BioWare making a third Krogan character. I could be wrong, though. My idea:

**It is highly unlikely that Urdnot Grunt and Urdnot Wrex will both be dead in more than a few imports, therefore:
      -Wrex dead, Grunt alive - Grunt goes with you on your mission
      -Grunt dead, Wrex alive - Wrex goes with you on your mission
      -Wrex dead, Grunt dead - No Krogan squadmate for you! (or you get a placeholder/Vorcha squadmate, ha!)

Also, if both are alive, only Grunt goes with you. A Charm/Intimidate option to take Wrex too is possible.

Story-wise, it makes perfect sense:
      -If you kill Wrex and Grunt remains alive, Wreav continues leading Tuchanka like he always does and you remain as Grunt's battlemaster
      -If you kill Grunt and Wrex remains alive, Wrex knows the urgency of defending against the Reapers and leaves Tuchanka in Wreav's hands (even if it means destroying everything he's built)
      -If both Wrex and Grunt remain alive, Wrex knows the urgency of defending against the Reapers, but he has entrusted Urdnot Grunt to do his job for him.
      -If both Wrex and Grunt are dead, then you don't deserve a Krogan squadmate - you get an outcast Vorcha squadmate who only has the mental capacity to fight with little dialogue (which is the case for most of them). He still has the same regenerative powers as Wrex and Grunt though.

  


Your save game from ME 2 should have a impact on who will be in your squad in ME 3. If I make sure to kill Tali and jack then they are dead in my game. 

[Pauravi]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

None of those are pertinent in my opinion.  They turn the argument into even more unknown territory regarding how BioWare is funded

That is exactly what your argument does!
It is based on the idea that it is too expensive for Bioware to record the extra dialogue that it would require to flesh out all the characters.  An idea that, according to your own argument, is without basis.  Way to go.  Self pwnage.

and what they consider valuable to players.

I think anyone who has ever played a Bioware game, or read any of the interviews with Bioware about Mass Effect, understands that story and character development are the most important aspects of the game for them.

[vm323]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Ecael wrote...

To me, that leaves (for varying reasons): Grunt, Tali, Garrus, Legion, Miranda and Jacob.

Someone agrees, even with the same characters

Tali - Clear fan favorite since ME1 and integral part of the quarian story, love interest
Garrus - Clear fan favorite since ME1, love interest
Legion - Can survive whether you kill him, keep him inactive or send him to Cerberus.
Miranda - Most difficult squadmate to get killed in the suicide mission, quits Cerberus to side with Shepard
Jacob - Can easily side with Shepard at the end and quit Cerberus as well
Grunt - This may not be a good excuse, but why would BioWare want to design a third Krogan character (unless it were female?)

As for the others, I already listed why they are unlikely to come back:
-Samara/Morinth (Samara said she might try to kill Shepard herself, Morinth is obvious)
-Thane (Terminal illness, may be able to see him one last time before he dies)
-Jack (Neurological illness, may continue to degenerate and leaves)
-Mordin (Too old, easily dies in the suicide mission)
-Zaeed (Bounty hunter, only does what he is paid for)
-Kasumi (Too late to develop a large fanbase, won't have a compelling backstory)

  


I made sure Tali is dead in my games so she better remain dead in My ME 3 play through 

no one else thinks so but im positive thane will be in ME3 he was a poster character for Me2 and a potential Li for female shepards i guarentee somehow he gets cured of hid disease
and i think that mordin should be an NPC on the normandy who works in the lab and helps you out on your mission

but i agree that samara,zaeed, kasumi and jack will not return

an since jack is dead in mine she is definatley not gonna be in the next one

[Ecael]

[Consolidating this post to next page and ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL]

Modifié par Ecael, 25 février 2010 - 03:58 .

[redguppie]

Nozybidaj wrote...

redguppie wrote...

And you keep bringing up the transition from 1 to 2 like it is some formula that they have to follow to get from 2 to 3, why?   The did that to give a reason to bring in this crew of people because otherwise why would Sheppard be team hunting, he would already have one.

Exactly my point, Shepard already had a team,  why spend all of the second part hunting for a new one?  Does it really make sense from a story telling stand point to spend the entirity of the first two chapters of your trilogy doing nothing but new character introductions?

No, but they did it anyway because BW said so.  Look at what BW does, they took a highly successful game with great characters that were loved by the fans and completely cast them aside for the sole purpose of introducing new ones whether it made sense or not.  Look at DA:O Awakenings, same thing there, they created a great cast that people loved and forgot about them in the Expansion," the expansion" not even an entirely new game in the series.

I see no reason to believe BW won't do the same thing in ME3, its just what they do.  They have a formula down for how they create new characters for each installment, they don't do character development and continuity across chapters of the series.

You may not like it, I certainly didn't in ME2, but I am just preparing you for the fact that Tali, and Miranda, and Thane, and Grunt, and all these other great characters that people love now can be easily tossed aside into cameo land by BW without even giving it a second thought, no matter how much you are going to hate it.

You say they don't do character development across the series but the only three that can semi apply two is Liara and Ashley\\Kaidan.  In truth the people have progressed and changed in the 2 years since you last played,  it's just that the only ones you get to fully understand the reasons for are Garrus/Tali.  It is obvious that the others have had drastic development as well but we won't be able to realize why until the final act. 

You keep acting like this is some independent story, seperate from the others when in truth it's just the middle act of a single story. 

now to answer your statements

1. why spend all of the second part hunting for a new one?  Does it really
make sense from a story telling stand point to spend the entirity of
the first two chapters of your trilogy doing nothing but new character
introductions?

Yes it does, when you realize the ENTIRE point of the second part was to introduce these characters, it also began to build a plot device for defeating the enemy(dark energy build up, uniting the galaxy anhy can be)

2.BW does, they took a highly successful game with great characters that
were loved by the fans and completely cast them aside for the sole
purpose of introducing new ones whether it made sense or not.

didnt cast them aside, you seem to be taking what happened to Laira personnally and saying thy did it to everyone.  Regardless of what you think, they couldn't have got backing to even start this project without a definate plan of how the story was going to go.  Which means this change in attitude was planned from the beginning and it was done for a reason.  As for DA:O That expansion isnt the end of the series(not sure that even is a series) the end plotline is entirely different than the middle or the beginning, it has to be because it is trying to accomplish a different purpose than the other parts.

1st: intro
2nd: development of Characters and plots
3rd conclusion

I've read most of the threads like this and just about everyone who says they wont bring the characters back reasons can be boiled down to one statement

They think BW is to lazy to try and make a good story.  and to that statement I disagree