367 réponses à ce sujet

[Pauravi]

There is going to be a lot of "I toldjaso" threads when ME3 comes out and 80-90% of the characters are back and in their correct alive/dead condition as imported from ME2. I'll certainly be making one, anyway.

[Hulk Hsieh]

I really think Bioware has written themselves to a corner by the ending of ME2.
We can end up with 2 members alive only, so they should make at least like 6 new members in ME3 as replacement. But, we can also end up with 11 members alive, which means totally 6+11 members to be written.

Modifié par Hulk Hsieh, 25 février 2010 - 03:50 .

[Ecael]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

I really think Bioware has written themselves to a corner by the ending of ME2. We can end up with 2 members alive only, so they should give me at least like 6 new members in ME3 as replacement. But, we can also end up with 11 members alive, which means totally 6+11 members to be written.

Just because 11-12 members are alive doesn't mean they're all going to be with Shepard in ME3. A couple of them are dying or are only staying for transparent reasons. At best, I see 14 as the magic number for ME3, which is a combination of old and new.

ExtremeOne wrote...
Your save game from ME 2 should have a impact on who will be in your squad in ME 3. If I make sure to kill
Tali and jack then they are dead in my game.

Did you not read my last post? I said if someone dies, they won't show up at all in your game. Simple. No one needs to replace them if there are 6 new characters.

Honestly, I get the feeling that a lot of the arguments in this thread are motivated by utterly blatant fanboyism / fangirlism of a certain character. It prevents people from predicting BioWare's actions objectively (and I'm sure BioWare looks at their characters objectively; they don't include squadmates that people will automatically love or hate).

As for me? Out of all the squadmates, these are the ones I like (in no actual order):
-Grunt
-Legion
-Zaeed
-Ashley
-Kaidan
-Wrex
-Garrus
-Tali
-Liara
-Samara
-Mordin
-Miranda
-Jacob
-Thane
-Jack
-Morinth
-Kasumi
-Jenkins

Kasumi and Jenkins, you ask? Yes, I like both of them too. It is just hilarious to watch Jenkins die in three shots with his paper armor, even if you gave him Colossus X Human armor. He has some decent conversation before Eden Prime. Also, I'm actually quite fond of Kasumi referring to the Commander as 'Shep'. As a plus, she's a tech expert.

BioWare does a great job at making new characters and giving them their own unique background and personality. But that doesn't mean they should churn out 10 new characters for every game, even if they can. I won't be disappointed if a couple of good characters don't return as squadmates in ME3, but I will be disappointed if NONE of them return.

Modifié par Ecael, 25 février 2010 - 04:02 .

[Reiella]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Here's the problem: whoever they let in your squad will need a lot of voice acting. Because of this, it's more likely that we'll see most of the ME1 squad. Wrex, Ashley and Kaidan could die so they'll probably make cameos. Since all of your ME2 crew except Joker and EDI could die, I don't think we'll see anyone from that crew in your squad, either.

That's still a lot of people and there will be a few new recruits, I'm sure.

Been a while since I've done a ME1 run through, let alone an odd run through.  But I'm pretty sure in ME1 it was possible to not recruit Garrus.

That said, I greatly doubt they'd invalidate that much of the end-game.  And it's not too likly that Cerebrus will decide it's worthwhile to reconstruct a Quarian.

[Booglarize]

Default137 wrote...


Actually lets take a loog over Biowares history to try and see their formula.

Baldurs Gate -  Oh look, 50-75% of the team is back for another run, and all the survivors are back for the godfight.

Neverwinter Nights - Deekin, few others, all came back.

KotOR - 2 wasn't made by Bioware

Dragon Age - Small budget, but even then, at least one person is coming back, most of the rest can't come back for personal reasons, rather then budget reasons.

Mass Effect - half the squad came back.

Good summary; I just thought I'd add a couple points. Even though KOTOR2 was by a different developer, there was still some continuity - same ship, and two characters (the droids) returning even though it was a completely different protagonist. 

And re: Dragon Age... Awakenings is just an expansion after all; we will definitely be getting a DA2 and I would hope that there's better continuity for that.

Overall I think the Baldur's Gate series gave the best sense of the same story and people carrying from one game to the other - however, it's been some time since those games were made and I'm not sure whether it's safe to conclude that the Bioware of today is identical to what it was back then.

All in all I'm anxious to see what ME3 is like, and I'm cautiously optimistic as Bioware have yet to seriously disappoint me. 

[Ecael]

no one else thinks so but im positive thane will be in ME3 he was a
poster character for Me2 and a potential Li for female shepards i
guarentee somehow he gets cured of hid disease
and i think that mordin should be an NPC on the normandy who works in the lab and helps you out on your mission

but i agree that samara,zaeed, kasumi and jack will not return

an since jack is dead in mine she is definatley not gonna be in the next one

Ashley was a poster character in ME1 but didn't really get much screentime in the next game. They made it quite clear that Thane is dying within a year (and Jack might be dying of a neurological disease), making it more of a fling than a lasting relationship. Remember that the best Hanar doctors couldn't find a cure for him, so it would take a real deus ex machina to help him.

Mordin is old. I mean, really old. He could drop dead at any moment. Before the 'hold the line' explanation was released, I was pretty sure that Mordin died of old age while waiting for Shepard to finish fighting the Reaper.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Pauravi wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

None of those are pertinent in my opinion.  They turn the argument into even more unknown territory regarding how BioWare is funded

That is exactly what your argument does!
It is based on the idea that it is too expensive for Bioware to record the extra dialogue that it would require to flesh out all the characters.  An idea that, according to your own argument, is without basis.  Way to go.  Self pwnage.

and what they consider valuable to players.

I think anyone who has ever played a Bioware game, or read any of the interviews with Bioware about Mass Effect, understands that story and character development are the most important aspects of the game for them.

You misunderstand completely.  My argument is not that it's too expensive to do additional voice acting - it's that the value of the dialogue would be much, much worse since some of those characters would go unused.  I'm confident that BioWare will write fantastic characters regardless of who your squad is in ME3, but I doubt that it will be filled with ME2 characters.  Regardless, I'm not going to speculate about how much various things cost or are valued by BioWare.

Modifié par The Capital Gaultier, 25 février 2010 - 04:29 .

[Multifarious Algorithm]

I would also have to add that to an extent, it is entirely possible to have some characters return in a big way without overly committing to their dialog options. You only need to make it feel like they're "there" even if they're not on your actual team.



This could be satisifed by shifting their between-mission conversations off of the Normandy and having them happen by the holo-conferencer or similar.

[Computron2000]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...
You misunderstand completely.  My argument is not that it's too expensive to do additional voice acting - it's that the value of the dialogue would be much, much worse since some of those characters would go unused.  I'm confident that BioWare will write fantastic characters regardless of who your squad is in ME3, but I doubt that it will be filled with ME2 characters.  Regardless, I'm not going to speculate about how much various things cost or are valued by BioWare.

Currently you could sell Legion and leave grunt in his tank. This means both of their lines are totally unused and as major characters that is a lot of lines. In addition, a number of squadmates can be left unrecruited, only the first 4 is compulsory.

Also another interesting issue is Zaeed. He is a free download and thus his lines may or may not be experienced by players.

From the evidence in ME2, it may be that the value assigned to a character used or unused is the same.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Computron2000 wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...
You misunderstand completely.  My argument is not that it's too expensive to do additional voice acting - it's that the value of the dialogue would be much, much worse since some of those characters would go unused.  I'm confident that BioWare will write fantastic characters regardless of who your squad is in ME3, but I doubt that it will be filled with ME2 characters.  Regardless, I'm not going to speculate about how much various things cost or are valued by BioWare.

Currently you could sell Legion and leave grunt in his tank. This means both of their lines are totally unused and as major characters that is a lot of lines. In addition, a number of squadmates can be left unrecruited, only the first 4 is compulsory.

Also another interesting issue is Zaeed. He is a free download and thus his lines may or may not be experienced by players.

From the evidence in ME2, it may be that the value assigned to a character used or unused is the same.

Very, very true.  However, for Zaeed, he doesn't have interactive discussions, but instead repeats the same 12 or 15 stories.  Definitely not as much as a "regular" character.

The way I see it, Kaidan or Ashley will be in ME3 along with Liara.  That's one "wasted" character already.  I can see the reasons why people would want the ME2 characters to go along, too, but I can't see BioWare adding more than a few "wasted" characters as squadmates (if the game is structured similar to ME2).

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Q: How many people refrainedfrom buying ME2 because Wrex, Liara and Ashley/Kaidan were cameos?
A: None.

Q: How many people will refrain from buying ME3 because none of the expendables will be a full-time recruitable squadmate?
A: Not many.

Q: Does the shooter crowd give a crap about squadmates?
A: No.

Q: Would many people like to see a newly introduced squadmates, provided the story of the old ones is continued in the form of NPC?
A: Yes.

Q: Will keeping the squad from ME2, provided they all need substitutes in case they kicked it, be more cost effective in development then having them as NPCs with generic substitutes and the squad that doesn't need substitutes?
A: No.

Q: Should new players be welcome to purchase ME3?
A: New customers are always right.

Q: Will new customers appreciate if we keep the squad from ME2?
A: No.

Q:  Is BioWare in the habit of spitting in the faces of the majority of their fanbase?
A:  No. 

BioWare is not just going to screw over all their fans for the first time in their histroy just because some people wiped out half their squad in ME2.

I guarantee we will see Garrus, Tali, Miranda, and Jacob back as squadmates in ME3 at the minimum.  I'll put money on it.  If they're dead in your import, then they just won't show up for that character.  I have 7 different characters that have cleared ME2 now, each of them with varying choices, survivors, and love interests.  I fully expect to see each of those LI's back(possibly not Jack due to the mental degradation from her biotic implants).

[CmdrFenix83]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Dont you see the conflict in saying "we arent giving the ME1 LIs a big role so that they are safe for ME3" and then giving the ME2 squad an equally important role in ME3? Its BS hypocrisy, and shows that they could have added the ME1 LIs into ME2 in a good role if they wanted, they just made an excuse not to.

This.  If the ME1 LI's were kept out of ME2 so they could have a big role in ME3, yet the ME2 LI's also have a big role in ME3, that "reason" just becomes an excuse and a cop out. 

I would be extremely disappointed in BW if we get to ME3 and the ME2 LI's have anywhere near the presence in the game the ME1 LI's have.  It would defeat the entire purpose of not having the ME1 LI's in ME2.

I expect them to be handled relatively evenly, except the Kaiden/Ashley/Liara characters will have something important to the main story.  Something critical that they cannot be excluded from, where the ME2 ones will still have the same level of presence in the game, but you aren't going to get "Critical Mission Failure" if they're dead going into ME3. 

Even if you didn't romance the ME1 LI's, or left them for someone in ME2, they will be integral to the main plot.  That's the *only* reason they were written out of the ME2 plot.  That's it.  I have 3 playthroughs from ME2 with ME1 LI's still intact.  I expect those relationships to be handled just as well as the 4 with new partners.

I can understand being jaded if you felt truly connected to whichever ME1 LI, but there's no reason to come on here and ****** all over the people that actually like more than 1 character, or one that's different from your own selection.

[CmdrFenix83]

MutantSpleen wrote...

You have to take into account though (this probably has been said but haven't read the whole thread) the number of characters that can possibly die and have the mission succeed because there will be people who have that happen. So why would they bring back all the characters from ME2 if they had to outfit some players with a whole new team because the old team died. That is twice the work. I could see cameos for some of them if they lived but to do full dialogues for people that may not be in a lot of peoples games? I don't think so.

They don't need to bring in anyone.  If you go for the worst possible ending(as one forumite has done), you still have 2 people alive after ME2, add in the Virmire survivor and Liara, and you've got 4 squadmates.  That's exactly how many you could have for most of the game in ME1 if you do Virmire as soon as possible(counting sidequests after Virmire).  Heck, you could do, Noveria, Feros, Virmire, and then only have 3 squadmates for all of your sidequests, then go do Therum, and Ilos, etc. 

Being stuck with 4 squaddies might mean they'll bring in 2-3 new characters, but I highly doubt we'll have any more than that considering that ME3 is the finale for the trilogy, and we're not going to get a bunch of new characters introduced in the last leg of the trilogy.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 25 février 2010 - 08:19 .

[NICKjnp]

I'm betting the characters that could have been LI from ME 1 & 2 will return as squadmates (if they survived) but not non-LI squadmates.

[CmdrFenix83]

Lvl20DM wrote...

It's silly to speculate, but I really think that none of your ME 2 squad will be in your squad in ME 3. It's not just a matter of resources. It would hurt the game. Part of what makes these games great is getting to know your squad and introducing new characters. These characters allow the writers to explore different aspects of the universe they have create. Samara gives us a new type of Asari to interact with and introduces the justicars. Thane is a "new" race. Grunt is a very different Krogan from Wrex. Without new squad-mates we miss out on this very important part of story-telling. A rigid Turian that distrusts humanity would give us a new perspective on that race. A female Krogan engineer would put yet another spin on that species, and so on.

Plus, any of your ME 2 squad can die and most of them are given good reasons to leave. They will probably be cameos - the popular ones will get more substantial cameos. This is not a bad thing - it is actually good for the game. I suspect that ME 3 will be more plot focused, with less total squad-mates than the second game. I would think something structurally similar to ME 1 - you won't be recruiting a squad for another suicide mission, you'll be investigating the latest Reaper threat and picking up allies as you go.

You're forgetting one thing, though.  This will be the first Trilogy RPG ever produced.  I mean actual trilogy, with three interlocking stories and a single main protagonist.  Mass Effect is somewhat of a unique series in the gaming world.  I highly doubt we'll see an entirely new squad in ME3.  There's more important things to do than run around recruiting individuals.  If anything, we'll be rallying the fleets of the galaxy for a final confrontation, not looking for individuals for help.

[Hyper Cutter]

At least a few characters need to survive for Shepard to survive (I think the number is 2?), so at least that many will "canonically" live. I suspect the "official" scenario (the one used for default characters) for ME3 will be one of these:

1. Everyone lived
2. Only the love interests lived, while Samara/Mordin/Grunt/Legion/Zaeed/Kasumi all died or were never recruited
3. Only the love interests for your character's gender survived

Knowing how trollish they were with the default ME2 scenario, I assume #3.

Modifié par Hyper Cutter, 25 février 2010 - 06:18 .

[-Skorpious-]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
You're forgetting one thing, though.  This will be the first Trilogy RPG ever produced.  I mean actual trilogy, with three interlocking stories and a single main protagonist.  Mass Effect is somewhat of a unique series in the gaming world.  I highly doubt we'll see an entirely new squad in ME3.  There's more important things to do than run around recruiting individuals.  If anything, we'll be rallying the fleets of the galaxy for a final confrontation, not looking for individuals for help.

This is exactly what I was thinking. A few extra individuals would certainly benefit Shepard, but at most all they could realistically do is to help take down a single Reaper (possibly more, but that depends on many variables). Shepard spent Mass Effect 2 recruiting the best the galaxy had to offer; now he/her needs to recruit entire armies, not a few individual specialists.

Plus, if we abandon the ME:2 crew wouldn't that mean we essentially wasted our time with ME:2? The entire plot revolved around recruiting/getting to know our new squadmates - it would be like a slap in the face if they ultimately end up reduced to a minor cameo appearance. 

Hyper Cutter wrote...

I suspect the "official" scenario (the one used for default characters) for ME3 will be one of these:

1. Everyone lived
2. Only the love interests lived, while Samara/Mordin/Grunt/Legion/Zaeed/Kasumi all died or were never recruited
3. Only the love interests for your character's gender survived

Knowing how trollish they were with the default ME2 scenario, I assume #3.

Yeah, that really irritated me. They didn't even consider throwing a paragon, hell, even a neural character, a bone. It's like Bioware intentionally made default Shep out to be the biggest douche in the galaxy.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 25 février 2010 - 06:15 .

[DirtyVagrant]

I like the suggestion someone gave in a thread like this, maybe it has been discussed already, I dunno I really don't want to browse through 14 pages. But at the very least, they could have the characters be temporary party members in a quest of considerable importance. For example, you need to rally the Quarians against the Reapers and you can run into Tali. If she's dead in your playthrough, you get a Quarian with the same abilities just that there isn't as much dialogue with that character.

I have my fingers crossed that the ME2 squadmates come back in squad form, but it's all just guesswork for now. Bioware does listen to their fans, they've said they look at fan feedback and have shown they are willing to listen.

[tertium organum]

Pauravi wrote...

There is going to be a lot of "I toldjaso" threads when ME3 comes out and 80-90% of the characters are back and in their correct alive/dead condition as imported from ME2. I'll certainly be making one, anyway.

And when they don,t, I hope you make this thread as well. All of this is hilarious to watch. Some exceptional nerd rage will develop on these boards in a few years,.Temper your expectations fellows.

Modifié par tertium organum, 25 février 2010 - 06:39 .

[Computron2000]

Ok an option that is improbable but funny if implemented



If someone from ME2 is dead, you get a varren/husk in their place. Their input when you're talking to other people amounts to "Grrrr...". If you're deliberately stupid in ME2 and get everyone killed, your choices of squadmates consists of 8 varren/husks with different colors along with Liara + Virmire survivor + 2 ME2 survivors.



Their banter when running around consists of "Grrr?", "Grrrr!", "Grrrr..."

[CmdrFenix83]

Computron2000 wrote...

Ok an option that is improbable but funny if implemented

If someone from ME2 is dead, you get a varren/husk in their place. Their input when you're talking to other people amounts to "Grrrr...". If you're deliberately stupid in ME2 and get everyone killed, your choices of squadmates consists of 8 varren/husks with different colors along with Liara + Virmire survivor + 2 ME2 survivors.

Their banter when running around consists of "Grrr?", "Grrrr!", "Grrrr..."

Braaaaaaaaaiiiiinnnnnnsssss.....

[XWAU_Forceflow]

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Thane: he's dying; he might die between games, or be so ill that he can no longer travel with Shep. Plus, he might want to reconnect with his son before he dies.

Agree

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Jack: has stated that she intends to leave. Will probably do so. She's got a lot of problems to work out.

Agree

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Tali: Joins the Admiralty Board. She is very devoted to her people, this is the next natural step for this character.

Only works if you did not get her exiled though. They need a backup explanation for that one. Plus fan support is so big for her they might write her into the story...

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Grunt: Goes to Tuchanka, joins the Clan Urdnot cause.

Didn't think about that one, seems logical, so agree

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Samara: Continues her travels as a Justicar.

Jupp, sounds logical

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Mordin: becomes involved in important scientific research related to either the Reapers or the Genophage.

My thoughts again

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Garrus: this one is tough. Garrus doesn't really discuss plans for the future. I could see him being very important in the fight against the Reapers without being on the Squad.

Another member that has very good chances to come back I think...

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Legion: this guy could be on your squad in ME 3. His unique Geth nature could make death less than permanent. He might also return to his people with a wealth of data on the rest of the Galaxy.

Most definitively, he can easily return from the dead without any problem. Plus the whole Geth thing has way too much potential to just turn down...

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Miranda: not sure. This could depend on what you do with the Collector base. She can actually quit Cerberus in some play-throughs. I'm curious as to why her father is left intentionally vague, could come into play in the next game.

Even better, if you killed her in ME2 they can simply replace her with her sister. Same look, same voice, same skills, same daddy issues... I'd say she's back for sure, too!

Lvl20DM wrote...
-Jacob: again, not sure. I suspect that he will leave Cerberus. I could see him being the head of security on a lawless space station or something like that. Any place a no nonsense bad ass makes sense.

Since I am pretty sure that Ashley/Kaiden will be back I think Jacob will be gone. Those characters are too much alike. Not sure how they will write him out of the story though...

-Wrex as far as I understood it he did not survive the 'canon' storyline. So he'll just get another cameo if you ask me...

So that leaves:

1. Liara (only non killable character in the series so far)
2. Ashley/Kaidan (Bioware pretty much stated that they were benched to come back)
3. Legion (practically unkillable)
4. Miranda or her sister (again, unkillable)
5/6. Garrus / Tali or both (due to the tremendous fan support)

So that would give you a minimum of 4 characters and up to 6 cahracters to start from. You can bet Bioware WILL introduce at least some new squadmates. Make it 2 and you'll have between 6 (if you killed both Garrus and Tali) and 8 (if you kept them alive) crewmen. Plenty for the story, ME1 had less than that.

Modifié par XWAU_Forceflow, 25 février 2010 - 09:29 .

[Joshua Hawkeye]

Miranda, Jacob, Legion, Tali, Mordin, or Garrus would

Miranda and Jacob obviously, as you are either still Cerberus or have gone completely rogue, and they have gone rogue with you. Legion may return to the Geth to report about you. Tali may return to the quarians to report about Legion (Yeah! Geth fleet on our sides ftw ) Mordin dies in my game, but I can imagine he tags along with you. Garrus certainly wouldn't leave your side. Ever. Unless he gets killed, off-course.



Wrex is either dead or manages to unite the Krogan. He is not in the position to join your crew, but he becomes an powerfull ally. Ashley or Kaidan might just join in.



My two cents.

[Alratan]

I am pretty much in synch with your thoughts on this matter, Ecael.

Grunt - This may not be a good excuse, but why would BioWare want to design a third Krogan character (unless it were female?)

Better excuse still is that Grunt states that you are his Battlemaster, and that he will follow you pretty much anywhere because he loves being around you.

Mordin (Too old, easily dies in the suicide mission)

Which is a shame, as he's probably my favourite of the new characters. I don't think being too old is too much of a problem, though, as Mordin seems incredibly physically capable despite his advanced age. Assuming that ME3 is only 1 year after ME2, Mordin seems unlikely to age in any significant degree that would render him dead. Given the latter problem that he dies too easily plus the possibility that you are right, I can easily see Mordin being relegated to a shipmate rather than a squadmate, functioning as a Head Scientist. If he died in your playthrough, you get a generic NPC, but otherwise  you get to enjoy Mordin's personality and maybe a bonus upgrade/way of recruiting the Salarians to your cause for keeping him alive. His personality seems such that if he's in any way capable of helping against the Reapers, he's highly unlikely to leave Shepard.

Like some others here, I think that ME2 having big consequences for ME3 is perfectly brought about by having any dead squad-mates stay dead, as it really brings you to reality when they just aren't there for you anymore and there are no replacements. That's the same reasoning that any of them would be brought through at all - if none or few of them transition, it renders the whole suicide mission less emotive as they don't come with you anyway. If any of the ME2 characters that can be brought into ME3 (even if that means all of them in some magical world) die, you simply have fewer squad-mates to choose from, and that's Shepard's own fault. Shepard's squad is then Liara, Ashley/Kaiden, the 6 ME2 squadmates who carry on (if they survived) and a few new people. I can see the decision to let shipmates die having an effect as well, although I'm not sure what the effect would be, precisely.

Even those who do survive but aren't brought through should still have some effect in some way, otherwise it cheapens the Suicide mission aspect. Maybe Samara being alive influences the Asari to believe in the Reapers, Thane the Hanar, and similar. If Grunt and Legion aren't awoken but left in their rooms, I can see it being a relatively simple matter to say, "The tank/the geth body took irreperable damage during a fight," and thus aren't recruitable. Anyone else not recruited would simply not exist in ME3, having died during the ME2 -> ME3 transition due to Shepard not being around to save them.

[Multifarious Algorithm]

A decent argument in terms of "wasted" character dialog which people are talking about is simply the fact that for Bioware, having dead characters stay dead or be alive isn't "wasted" dialog so much as "gained ME2 sales".



I mean, do we really think they are not going to sell a hell of a lot of ME2 copies right before ME3 comes out? I bought ME1 before ME2 came out, and as a result pre-ordered ME2 CE edition. As I will do for 3.