367 réponses à ce sujet

[ExtremeOne]

Computron2000 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I also got killed Jack and Thane, and never let Grunt out of his pod. Kinda stupid we can sell Legion to Cerberus but not Grunt, although he's got Collector tech in him.

Since you're deliberately screwing yourself, i believe BW will continue to let you enjoy screwing yourself. Your choice, your consequences after all

  



how did he screw himself he killed the squad mates he did not like just like I did with making sure Tali and Samara as well Jack dieing on the Collector's base. Bioware always preached that Mass Effect 2 is a game and a story based on your choices.  

[Ecael]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ecael wrote...

If Mass Effect 2's character development have no consequence (and the other choices in ME1/ME2 have insignificant consequence in ME3),

Are you nuts?
How can the choice to save/ leave the Council to die be inferior to any other choice so far?

How exactly did the game change between the two choices, other than the way some NPCs talked to you? BioWare didn't even bother to voice or create a Human Council.

Even minor choices from ME1, like yet unaccounted for choice of endorsing Terra Firma, trump those character development choices from ME2. because you know, if Saracino gets elected, it's somehow going to affect the whole of Systems Alliance. And the choice of what to do with Jacob's dad, and is it Kolyat who kills that turian bastard, or Shepard himself, and whether Jacob & Thane survive Omega-4 or not, is pretty small things in terms of the looming galactic extinction.

Killing the Council barely affected the story, how would endorsing an NPC that you talk to for 30 seconds affect it? Also, the choices you make within the loyalty missions become pointless if we just assume that they don't exist or play a major role with the canon ME3 Shepard.

Any squadmate is expendable and replaceable, since there are a lot of capable individuals of all the major races around to provide Shepard fire support on his way to ultimate victory. Shepard is Savior of the Galaxy not a babysitter. Still Shepard falls a little short of being an actual Jesus Christ, therefore his "apostles" are also part-time workers.

And his squadmates don't count as saviors, even though they did just as much work? Do people not revere other squadmates the same way we would apostles?

[Zulu_DFA]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I also got killed Jack and Thane, and never let Grunt out of his pod. Kinda stupid we can sell Legion to Cerberus but not Grunt, although he's got Collector tech in him.

Since you're deliberately screwing yourself, i believe BW will continue to let you enjoy screwing yourself. Your choice, your consequences after all

  



how did he screw himself he killed the squad mates he did not like just like I did with making sure Tali and Samara as well Jack dieing on the Collector's base. Bioware always preached that Mass Effect 2 is a game and a story based on your choices.  

I actually liked Mordin, and even Jack. I hated Tali because of the Talibance movement, and Thane for his over-the-top comicbookishness, uselessness (both gameplay and storywise) and being on my ME2 DVD-box.

They all got the deaths that they deserved. Tali burned in the Engine room. Thane got a headshot. Jack got dragged to pitch black by the swarms. Mordin's last words were: "I held the line".

This is drama. Not "Oh, Tali's too squishy to hold the line? OK, I'll send her back with the crew next time."

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 février 2010 - 01:46 .

[crimzontearz]

and of course since your ME2 LI can die too they will find some way for them to break up with us before ME3 even begins





so much for a continued Talimance

[ExtremeOne]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I also got killed Jack and Thane, and never let Grunt out of his pod. Kinda stupid we can sell Legion to Cerberus but not Grunt, although he's got Collector tech in him.

Since you're deliberately screwing yourself, i believe BW will continue to let you enjoy screwing yourself. Your choice, your consequences after all

  



how did he screw himself he killed the squad mates he did not like just like I did with making sure Tali and Samara as well Jack dieing on the Collector's base. Bioware always preached that Mass Effect 2 is a game and a story based on your choices.  

I actually liked Mordin, and even Jack. I hated Tali because of the Talibance movement, and Thane for his over-the-top comikbookishness, usefulness and being on my ME2 DVD-box.

They all got the deaths that they deserved. Tali burned in the Engine room. Thane got a headshot. Jack got dragged to pitch black by the swarms. Mordin's last words were: "I held the line".

This is drama. Not "Oh, Tali's too squishy to hold the line? OK, I'll send her back with the crew next time."

  


I hate Tali for the way she acted in the game and always using that stupid excuse Shepard I trusted you line. I wished I had killed off mordin but I will change that because he needs to die for what he did to the krogans.  I thought thane was stupid. I agree in my game the ones I wanted dead got what they deserved 

[Ghostano]

The only one that could return for sure is Miranda not because she can not die but her twin sister could take her place if she wanted to. I know it is hard to understand but yes your squad in ME2 is nothing more then canon fodder. If they return they will get the NPC treatment but I guess if everyone whines enough they will have the Lazarus Project bring them all back.



If people will use the excuse the story in the game was weak in the second one because it would make it to hard to program all the choices then they are not comeing back as squadmates because that would just be to hard. I guess all those people that thought everyone that survived at the end of ME1 would return in ME2 as squadmates felt alot like people now.



No worries though they gave everyone ammo I am sure thye will not screw you over like they did the fans of ME1 squadmates. Really one companion in Dragon Age has more depth then all the ME2 squadmates combined

[Nozybidaj]

Ecael wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ecael wrote...

If Mass Effect 2's character development have no consequence (and the other choices in ME1/ME2 have insignificant consequence in ME3),

Are you nuts?
How can the choice to save/ leave the Council to die be inferior to any other choice so far?

How exactly did the game change between the two choices, other than the way some NPCs talked to you? BioWare didn't even bother to voice or create a Human Council.

Even minor choices from ME1, like yet unaccounted for choice of endorsing Terra Firma, trump those character development choices from ME2. because you know, if Saracino gets elected, it's somehow going to affect the whole of Systems Alliance. And the choice of what to do with Jacob's dad, and is it Kolyat who kills that turian bastard, or Shepard himself, and whether Jacob & Thane survive Omega-4 or not, is pretty small things in terms of the looming galactic extinction.

Killing the Council barely affected the story, how would endorsing an NPC that you talk to for 30 seconds affect it? Also, the choices you make within the loyalty missions become pointless if we just assume that they don't exist or play a major role with the canon ME3 Shepard.

I think at this point it is fairly obvious that the whole "your choices have consequences" talk is just fluff and marketing for the most part.

They said your three major choices in ME1 were to save the council or not, who you chose as an LI, and (i believe) the third one was whether you saved the rachni queen or not.

In ME2 we get a two minute conversation with the council if you saved them none if you didn't, your LI is not even recognized, and a 20 second conversation with a random asari representing the rachni queen.

So the three "major" choices you made in ME1 had a total impact of 2 1/2 minutes of side conversation in ME2.  Our choices had consequences?  Really?

I don't think we should reasonably expect anything you did in ME2 like what you did with Jacob's dad or Kolyat to have any more significant impact than the above, and more likely none at all.

[aaniadyen]

crimzontearz wrote...

and of course since your ME2 LI can die too they will find some way for them to break up with us before ME3 even begins


so much for a continued Talimance

"Hey Shepard?"
"What is it, Tali?"
"Kal'Reager is bigger. See ya!"

[Jackal904]

I sure hope so.

[Ecael]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I think at this point it is fairly obvious that the whole "your choices have consequences" talk is just fluff and marketing for the most part.

They said your three major choices in ME1 were to save the council or not, who you chose as an LI, and (i believe) the third one was whether you saved the rachni queen or not.

In ME2 we get a two minute conversation with the council if you saved them none if you didn't, your LI is not even recognized, and a 20 second conversation with a random asari representing the rachni queen.

So the three "major" choices you made in ME1 had a total impact of 2 1/2 minutes of side conversation in ME2.  Our choices had consequences?  Really?

I don't think we should reasonably expect anything you did in ME2 like what you did with Jacob's dad or Kolyat to have any more significant impact than the above, and more likely none at all.

As pessimistic as I usually am, I would hope that ME3 would actually have drastic consequences to our past choices - after all, they plan on ending the story now.

The problem was seeing the consequences of the major choices in ME2 - Ashley/Kaidan, Wrex, the Council, the Love Interest, and the Rachni.
    -Ashley/Kaidan were basically given the same exact lines despite having different viewpoints and personalities
    -The Council being alive has absolutely no effect on quests in the game
    -Wrex is replaced by Wreav, and Tuchanka is exactly the same despite the fact that the brothers run Tunchanka in completely different ways

[crimzontearz]

aaniadyen wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

and of course since your ME2 LI can die too they will find some way for them to break up with us before ME3 even begins


so much for a continued Talimance

"Hey Shepard?"
"What is it, Tali?"
"Kal'Reager is bigger. See ya!"

someone needs to explain to me what the point of emotional investment is if the characters we invest in are summarily taken away from us in the next chapter

[Nozybidaj]

crimzontearz wrote...
someone needs to explain to me what the point of emotional investment is if the characters we invest in are summarily taken away from us in the next chapter

That is an excellent question.

[aaniadyen]

crimzontearz wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

and of course since your ME2 LI can die too they will find some way for them to break up with us before ME3 even begins


so much for a continued Talimance

"Hey Shepard?"
"What is it, Tali?"
"Kal'Reager is bigger. See ya!"

someone needs to explain to me what the point of emotional investment is if the characters we invest in are summarily taken away from us in the next chapter

There is none.

[Ecael]

crimzontearz wrote...
someone needs to explain to me what the point of emotional investment is if the characters we invest in are summarily taken away from us in the next chapter

I could definitely see Garrus, Tali, Jacob and Miranda returning as squadmates in ME3, but as for Thane and Jack... I think it was just more of a fling for those two. Jack isn't exactly a leading fan favorite.

[Barquiel]

Ecael wrote...

I could definitely see Garrus, Tali, Jacob and Miranda returning as squadmates in ME3, but as for Thane and Jack... I think it was just more of a fling for those two. Jack isn't exactly a leading fan favorite.

Oghren isn't exactly a fan favorite either;)

[Zulu_DFA]

Ecael wrote...
How exactly did the game change between the two choices, other than the way some NPCs talked to you? BioWare didn't even bother to voice or create a Human Council.
Killing the Council barely affected the story, how would endorsing an NPC that you talk to for 30 seconds affect it? Also, the choices you make within the loyalty missions become pointless if we just assume that they don't exist or play a major role with the canon ME3 Shepard.

The Council choice and Terra Firma choice still have to kick in in ME3. They could not do it in the 2, because it would create too brachy a tree of choices for them to make all ends meet the starts.

Some choices on loyalty missions are important, but somehow they did not affect the loyalty of the character. Like Mordin's loyalty. Maybe the genophage data choice will matter in ME3. But it did not affect Mordin's loyalty. All you had to do is to complete the mission. And of course if the data were backupped/erased, Mordin's survival is quite irrelevant.

Same goes to the Zaeed's, Thane's and Legion platform's survival and their loyalty missions choices.

Jacob's, Miranda's, Garrus's, Jack's, Samara's loyalty missions choices are not going to affect the galaxy.

The only complex situation is with Tali, but having her alive or not, exiled or not can not affect the Quarians' fate that much too.

"Loyalty" was just a gameplay mechanic to randomise "suicide mission" outcome. Actually it was very artificial and in most cases characters sould be more resolved to survive it with thier problems up in the air.

BTW you could skip more then half of the loyalty missions altogether and yet have all the squadmates survive.

And his squadmates don't count as saviors, even though they did just as much work? Do people not revere other squadmates the same way we would apostles?

Not if they get killed in the process. In fact Samara should turn agains a renegade after the "suicide mission" even if she got helped to kill Morinth.

I liked the way BioWare handled Ashley. She's very close to working against you, due to her silly beliefs. I want to kill her myself now, and not to be shoved with her a squadmate for ME3.

Can't you people see, that even if survived the "suicide mission" and helped with their personal/daddy issuies some squadmates wouldn't want to stay by Shepard? Jack if you only "used her for sex and biotics. Samara, if you're renegade. Tali, if you sold her father's name out. Thane needs to talk to his son before he dies. Mordin is getting old for blasters. Miranda and Jacob are with Cerberus and you may want to quit. I case Miranda jumps it with you, she may have a serious daddy issue again (so much for those "loyalty mission resolves it"). Grunt needs to put his four-pack to work on Tuchanka.

[Ecael]

Barquiel wrote...

Ecael wrote...

I could definitely see Garrus, Tali, Jacob and Miranda returning as squadmates in ME3, but as for Thane and Jack... I think it was just more of a fling for those two. Jack isn't exactly a leading fan favorite.

Oghren isn't exactly a fan favorite either;)

Well, BioWare conveniently gave Thane and Jack what appear to be death sentences.

[Zulu_DFA]

crimzontearz wrote...

someone needs to explain to me what the point of emotional investment is if the characters we invest in are summarily taken away from us in the next chapter

You may cry a river upon separation. Or not.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Ecael wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Ecael wrote...

I could definitely see Garrus, Tali, Jacob and Miranda returning as squadmates in ME3, but as for Thane and Jack... I think it was just more of a fling for those two. Jack isn't exactly a leading fan favorite.

Oghren isn't exactly a fan favorite either;)

Well, BioWare conveniently gave Thane and Jack what appear to be death sentences.

I could understand it with Jack, if she was in the latter 3 dossiers.

She isn't though, that being said, I think she will initially have 'left the ship' (unless she is Shep's LI) but with the option for Shep to get her again 'if they want' (sort of like what they did with Tali in ME-ME2).

Thane doesn't have to be recruited and thus can die, Tali doesn't have to be recruited and if they have her surviving Haestrom without Shepherd's help then that pretty much destroys the concept of that mission. Samara doesn't have to be recruited, well she would've probably killed the cop, gone and got the info she needed and continued her search for Morinth.

I'm intrigued as to how they would handle it if a player left Grunt in the lifepod or didn't send Legion to Cerberus but didn't activate him either.

[Ecael]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The Council choice and Terra Firma choice still have to kick in in ME3. They could not do it in the 2, because it would create too brachy a tree of choices for them to make all ends meet the starts.

Some choices on loyalty missions are important, but somehow they did not affect the loyalty of the character. Like Mordin's loyalty. Maybe the genophage data choice will matter in ME3. But it did not affect Mordin's loyalty. All you had to do is to complete the mission. And of course if the data were backupped/erased, Mordin's survival is quite irrelevant.

Same goes to the Zaeed's, Thane's and Legion platform's survival and their loyalty missions choices.

Jacob's, Miranda's, Garrus's, Jack's, Samara's loyalty missions choices are not going to affect the galaxy.

The only complex situation is with Tali, but having her alive or not, exiled or not can not affect the Quarians' fate that much too.

"Loyalty" was just a gameplay mechanic to randomise "suicide mission" outcome. Actually it was very artificial and in most cases characters sould be more resolved to survive it with thier problems up in the air.

BTW you could skip more then half of the loyalty missions altogether and yet have all the squadmates survive.

I would love to see drastic changes in ME3 due to choices, but it's hard to see that happening to anything other than the surviving and new characters. Dragon Age gave you many choices and changed which allies you received, but at the same time, all it changed was a bunch of weak NPCs at the final battle, a cutscene and the text in the epilogue. I fear they might go this route for the final war/battle in Mass Effect 3, which is why I'd be more hopeful for seeing all the surviving characters develop somehow in the game rather than faceless allies.

Not if they get killed in the process. In fact Samara should turn agains a renegade after the "suicide mission" even if she got helped to kill Morinth.

I liked the way BioWare handled Ashley. She's very close to working against you, due to her silly beliefs. I want to kill her myself now, and not to be shoved with her a squadmate for ME3.

Can't you people see, that even if survived the "suicide mission" and helped with their personal/daddy issuies some squadmates wouldn't want to stay by Shepard? Jack if you only "used her for sex and biotics. Samara, if you're renegade. Tali, if you sold her father's name out. Thane needs to talk to his son before he dies. Mordin is getting old for blasters. Miranda and Jacob are with Cerberus and you may want to quit. I case Miranda jumps it with you, she may have a serious daddy issue again (so much for those "loyalty mission resolves it"). Grunt needs to put his four-pack to work on Tuchanka.

Like I had listed in my post at the beginning of page 4, it's much more likely that they will keep certain squadmates (the ones most likely to survive in the suicide mission) and discard the others or leave them for cameo appearances.

[GenericPlayer2]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I think at this point it is fairly obvious that the whole "your choices have consequences" talk is just fluff and marketing for the most part.



They said your three major choices in ME1 were to save the council or not, who you chose as an LI, and (i believe) the third one was whether you saved the rachni queen or not.



In ME2 we get a two minute conversation with the council if you saved them none if you didn't, your LI is not even recognized, and a 20 second conversation with a random asari representing the rachni queen.



So the three "major" choices you made in ME1 had a total impact of 2 1/2 minutes of side conversation in ME2. Our choices had consequences? Really?



I don't think we should reasonably expect anything you did in ME2 like what you did with Jacob's dad or Kolyat to have any more significant impact than the above, and more likely none at all.

I have to agree. The ME1 choices seemed like half minute conversations and news reports. Adding credence to what you said, the Quarian Admiral Daro'Xen sends you the same e-mail regardless of the outcome of Tali's trial.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

I think most of the ME2 squad were just one hit wonders.

We dont even know for certain if the ME1 LIs role in ME3 that they were saved for is a squadmate role. If thats the case, I really dont think people should count on the ME2 squad tranferring over perfectly. I believe Caseys comment on it was something like "we have important stuff we want to conclude with the ME1 LIs in ME3, and want to save them for that. The same cant entirely be said of the ME2 squad".

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 24 février 2010 - 02:53 .

[ExtremeOne]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I think most of the ME2 squad were just one hit wonders.

We dont even know for certain if the ME1 LIs role in ME3 that they were saved for is a squadmate role. If thats the case, I really dont think people should count on the ME2 squad tranferring over perfectly. I believe Caseys comment on it was something like "we have important stuff we want to conclude with the ME1 LIs in ME3, and want to save them for that. That same cant entirely be said of the ME2 squad".

  


If they have plans for ME 1 LI then they better have plans for ME 2 LI or else I will do my best to kill off the remaining members of the ME 1 crew in ME 3. 

[Nozybidaj]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I think most of the ME2 squad were just one hit wonders.

We dont even know for certain if the ME1 LIs role in ME3 that they were saved for is a squadmate role. If thats the case, I really dont think people should count on the ME2 squad tranferring over perfectly. I believe Caseys comment on it was something like "we have important stuff we want to conclude with the ME1 LIs in ME3, and want to save them for that. The same cant entirely be said of the ME2 squad".

Well, pretty much all the ME2 squad can already be dead, so....

I agree though, there is nothing to indicate that anyone (from ME1 or 2) are planned to be squad mates in ME3.  Considering how broad their definition of the term "continuation" was prior to ME2, the use of the word "conclude" in regards to ME3 could mean just about anything.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

ExtremeOne wrote...

If they have plans for ME 1 LI then they better have plans for ME 2 LI or else I will do my best to kill off the remaining members of the ME 1 crew in ME 3. 

Oh Im sure they have plans for the ME2 LIs. Its simply plans that have to acknowledge that they might be dead, and therefore structure it accordingly.

You got your ME2 LIs in ME2. The ME1 LIs had basically no presence in the game whatsoever. If you dont like it that that might actually lead to the ME1 LIs getting a better role in future, youll just have to put up with it, like us fans of the ME1 LIs had to do with their **** role in ME2.