367 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

I could understand it with Jack, if she was in the latter 3 dossiers.

She
isn't though, that being said, I think she will initially have 'left
the ship' (unless she is Shep's LI) but with the option for Shep to get
her again 'if they want' (sort of like what they did with Tali in
ME-ME2).

Thane doesn't have to be recruited and thus can die,
Tali doesn't have to be recruited and if they have her surviving
Haestrom without Shepherd's help then that pretty much destroys the
concept of that mission. Samara doesn't have to be recruited, well she
would've probably killed the cop, gone and got the info she needed and
continued her search for Morinth.

I'm intrigued as to how they
would handle it if a player left Grunt in the lifepod or didn't send
Legion to Cerberus but didn't activate him either.

Sir Ulrich! Where have you been? My Worst Possible Playthrough thread lays dormant.

The decision to make Jack a forcibly recruitable character didn't come until late in development, though (with all the hidden dialogue for her mission). Her mental condition seems to be destabilizing regardless of how you talk to her and how you handled her loyalty quest. Unlike Grunt, the loyalty quest doesn't do much in solving the rage over her traumatic experiences.

The easiest method for BioWare in the scenarios you have:
Thane not recruited - Dies like he would in the mission
Tali not recruited - Dies like she would in the mission
Samara not recruited - Dies after finding Morinth without your help
Grunt in tank - Survives suicide mission (Humans talk too much. Like the tank. Come back later.)
Legion inactivated - Survives suicide mission (And is still building concensus)

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I have to agree. The ME1 choices seemed like half minute conversations and news reports. Adding credence to what you said, the Quarian Admiral Daro'Xen sends you the same e-mail regardless of the outcome of Tali's trial.

I just checked my e-mail with my playthrough that hands over all the evidence (non-Intimidate Renegade) to the Admiralty Board, and I still got the same e-mail accusing me of holding back. That doesn't make any sense. Space Morrigan for villain in ME3 and Morrigan for villian in DA2, I guess...

Modifié par Ecael, 24 février 2010 - 03:03 .

[iNixiRir]

Did people just mysteriously forgot that your Me squad was still with you after Sovereign? They went off to do their own thing after you went missing. But when you were still alive and hunting geth, they were there helping you. The only reason your squad will leave again to do their own stuff, is when Bioware decides to pull the "Me2 deadscene and gone missing for 2 years" for the second time(or something like kidnapping).

[Zulu_DFA]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

The ME1 choices seemed like half minute conversations and news reports. Adding credence to what you said, the Quarian Admiral Daro'Xen sends you the same e-mail regardless of the outcome of Tali's trial.

That's because ME1 choices will have their actual impact in the end. What we've got in ME2 is milk chocolate candy for the kids who otherwise would flood this forum with "WTF, BioWare, where's my rachni queen choice?" threads.
Daro'Xen's e-mail refers to what she found on the Alerei after the trial. As long you could not blow her up, Xen founds the same things there, regardless of what you said at the trial.

[Ecael]

iNixiRir wrote...

Did people just mysteriously forgot that your Me squad was still with you after Sovereign? They went off to do their own thing after you went missing. But when you were still alive and hunting geth, they were there helping you. The only reason your squad will leave again to do their own stuff, is when Bioware decides to pull the "Me2 deadscene and gone missing for 2 years" for the second time(or something like kidnapping).

That's a good point.

It would be hard to justify some of the squadmates leaving by choice for a cameo appearance when the bigger threat is still out there. Mass Effect 1 solved that problem by keeping Shepard dead for a long enough time.

[Timey254]

iNixiRir wrote...

Did people just mysteriously forgot that your Me squad was still with you after Sovereign? They went off to do their own thing after you went missing. But when you were still alive and hunting geth, they were there helping you. The only reason your squad will leave again to do their own stuff, is when Bioware decides to pull the "Me2 deadscene and gone missing for 2 years" for the second time(or something like kidnapping).

You are right, disappearing again for years would make the plot redicilous and if you are kidnapped: your squad knows you are still alive, so they would rather start a suicide mission to rescue you (the loyal ones) than going away (btw: a suicide mission were you play your squadmates to rescue Shep would be an awesome beginning of ME3)
 

[MrBeardface]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Here's the problem: whoever they let in your squad will need a lot of voice acting. Because of this, it's more likely that we'll see most of the ME1 squad. Wrex, Ashley and Kaidan could die so they'll probably make cameos. Since all of your ME2 crew except Joker and EDI could die, I don't think we'll see anyone from that crew in your squad, either.

That's still a lot of people and there will be a few new recruits, I'm sure.

It just seems implausible that Bioware would make a full new squad AGAIN after the last one. In fact, doing voice over, missions etc for the ME2 squad in ME3 wouldn't be much of a wasted effort - I am sure almost nobody lost more than maybe 2 or 3 squadmembers. By the time ME3 comes out people will either use saves where everybody survives, or use the default ME3 character, which again, likely will have the whole squad bar 2 or 3 people.

[Braag]

I'd rather have maybe couple old squad members join me in ME3 and have some new people on the side.

[Barquiel]

iNixiRir wrote...

Did people just mysteriously forgot that your Me squad was still with you after Sovereign?

Are you sure?

Ashley/Kaidan/Liara: yes...but the rest?

[FlintlockJazz]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

If they have plans for ME 1 LI then they better have plans for ME 2 LI or else I will do my best to kill off the remaining members of the ME 1 crew in ME 3. 

Oh Im sure they have plans for the ME2 LIs. Its simply plans that have to acknowledge that they might be dead, and therefore structure it accordingly.

You got your ME2 LIs in ME2. The ME1 LIs had basically no presence in the game whatsoever. If you dont like it that that might actually lead to the ME1 LIs getting a better role in future, youll just have to put up with it, like us fans of the ME1 LIs had to do with their **** role in ME2.

Wow, bitter and a hypocrite much?  So they should lose out on a satisfying conclusion to their LIs because the ME1 romances didn't get much screentime in 2?  You got your ME1 LIs in ME1, so it's kinda ******-for-tat in that regards, hell the ME1 romances were actually carried through in 2, if you didn't get the whole 'temptation' thing they tried to do with the ME2 romances (particularly Miranda) as part of the dark second act then you're seriously missing the plot.

[FlintlockJazz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

The ME1 choices seemed like half minute conversations and news reports. Adding credence to what you said, the Quarian Admiral Daro'Xen sends you the same e-mail regardless of the outcome of Tali's trial.

That's because ME1 choices will have their actual impact in the end. What we've got in ME2 is milk chocolate candy for the kids who otherwise would flood this forum with "WTF, BioWare, where's my rachni queen choice?" threads.
Daro'Xen's e-mail refers to what she found on the Alerei after the trial. As long you could not blow her up, Xen founds the same things there, regardless of what you said at the trial.

This is basically what I got from it too.  Being the middle part, it would be hard to add more variables to these missions than they already have for when developing ME3.  This way, they acknowledge that you did it and reassure the player that there may be more later (whether that's true or not is unknown until they release ME3 of course).

[kraidy1117]

Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, Tali, Grunt, Mordin, Jack, Thane and Legion have no reasons to leave. Miranda and Jacob stay with you, Garrus is like Shepards best friend, Tali is like a little sister or a LI. You are Grunts battlemaster. Mordin loves working on hard work so staying with Shepard is logical. Jack HAS no where to go. Thane is dieing and would most likely stay with his friend or lover. Legion is Shepards terminal to the Geth.



People like Samara will probably have a cameo. DLC squadmates will most likely not show up. The thing is making a new squad in ME3 will hurt Bioware big time because alot of people will be pissed. The thing is Bioware must have a plan or they would not have made ME2 into a suicide mission.

[Ecael]

Barquiel wrote...

iNixiRir wrote...

Did people just mysteriously forgot that your Me squad was still with you after Sovereign?

Are you sure?

Ashley/Kaidan/Liara: yes...but the rest?

Garrus wants vigilante justice on the Reapers, Wrex wants to fight for more than credits (Shepard gave him a reason), and Tali does what is best to help her fellow Quarians (fighting the Reapers is one such cause).

There's no reason that any of the 6 would want to leave after what they've been through together. That's why Shepard needed to 'die' at the beginning.

[kraidy1117]

Barquiel wrote...

iNixiRir wrote...

Did people just mysteriously forgot that your Me squad was still with you after Sovereign?

Are you sure?

Ashley/Kaidan/Liara: yes...but the rest?

Tali was there because Jacob mentioned her. Garrus and Wrex most likely left because they had other things to do.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

FlintlockJazz wrote...


Wow, bitter and a hypocrite much?  So they should lose out on a satisfying conclusion to their LIs because the ME1 romances didn't get much screentime in 2?  You got your ME1 LIs in ME1, so it's kinda ******-for-tat in that regards, hell the ME1 romances were actually carried through in 2, if you didn't get the whole 'temptation' thing they tried to do with the ME2 romances (particularly Miranda) as part of the dark second act then you're seriously missing the plot.

Wow, stupid and ignorant much? Ive already mentioned once, the entire point behind ME2 was that "EVERYONE CAN DIE". Bioware certainly werent joking in that regard, and while it may be ****** easy to get everyone to survive, the variance in who can die and how was impressive. That creates some massive complications that Bioware claim they left the ME1 LIs out of ME2 to avoid. I didnt like it that the ME1 Lis were left out of ME2, but I had to put up with it and hope it pays off in the end. The same goes for all the new ME2 LI fans who have to accept that on a lot of playthroughs their LIs died for many folks, and that screws potentially screws up their ME3 role. If you cant get that, then its you whos seriously missing the point. That "temptation" doesnt count for **** if Miranda is a corpse, and you better believe she will be on some folks saves. Are they really going to go to great lengths to integrate her into the plot if for a massive number of gamers it wont mean anything/even be present? I personally dont think so.

[kraidy1117]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...


Wow, bitter and a hypocrite much?  So they should lose out on a satisfying conclusion to their LIs because the ME1 romances didn't get much screentime in 2?  You got your ME1 LIs in ME1, so it's kinda ******-for-tat in that regards, hell the ME1 romances were actually carried through in 2, if you didn't get the whole 'temptation' thing they tried to do with the ME2 romances (particularly Miranda) as part of the dark second act then you're seriously missing the plot.

Wow, stupid and ignorant much? Ive already mentioned once, the entire point behind ME2 was that "EVERYONE CAN DIE". Bioware certainly werent joking in that regard, and while it may be ****** easy to get everyone to survive, the variance in who can die and how was impressive. That creates some massive complications that Bioware claim they left the ME1 LIs out of ME2 to avoid. I didnt like it that the ME1 Lis were left out of ME2, but I had to put up with it and hope it pays off in the end. The same goes for all the new ME2 LI fans who have to accept that on a lot of playthroughs their LIs died for many folks, and that screws potentially screws up their ME3 role. If you cant get that, then its you whos seriously missing the point. That "temptation" doesnt count for **** if Miranda is a corpse, and you better believe she will be on some folks saves. Are they really going to go to great lengths to integrate her into the plot if for a massive number of gamers it wont mean anything/even be present? I personally dont think so.

It's not hard to have everyone survived and people who lost there LI in ME2 are just stupid.

[iNixiRir]

Barquiel wrote...

iNixiRir wrote...

Did people just mysteriously forgot that your Me squad was still with you after Sovereign?

Are you sure?

Ashley/Kaidan/Liara: yes...but the rest?

Yes, Jacob tells you that in the beginning(something like: "The asari: Liara and the quarian, all got out alive"). TIM also told me what everyone was doing when I asked for them.(Wrex went to his homeworld and Garrus went missing - but the way TIM said it, it's implied that they went for that after your dead. Tali helping me was a suprise, Liara was working for the Shadow Broker, Ashley/Kaiden was classified).

@ Timey: it's more likely that your squad gets kipnapped; that Shepard has to save them. Then you recruit new members, rescue the old once, and then everyone dies because you were to late to stop the reapers.
Conclusion - Kidnapping doesn't work in the story.

Modifié par iNixiRir, 24 février 2010 - 03:26 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

kraidy1117 wrote...

It's not hard to have everyone survived and people who lost there LI in ME2 are just stupid.

Im not saying thats not the case. Im saying that might be meaningless to Bioware in their grand scheme of things.

[kraidy1117]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

It's not hard to have everyone survived and people who lost there LI in ME2 are just stupid.

Im not saying thats not the case. Im saying that might be meaningless to Bioware in their grand scheme of things.

Bioware has a plan, no one would make a game focus on a sucide mission, then tell us that your Li will have an importent part in ME3 and building friendship with the new crew and not have a plan for it in ME3. Introducing a whole new squad in ME3 will ****** off ALOT of people, I did not mine how ME LI where handled. Ash's scene was very emointial and made cheating on her with Miranada easy. The thing is they where left put so they could have a part in ME2, Bioware doing nothing with ME2 LI (which are better then ME LI) would ****** off too many people.

[Zulu_DFA]

Q: How many people refrainedfrom buying ME2 because Wrex, Liara and Ashley/Kaidan were cameos?

A: None.



Q: How many people will refrain from buying ME3 because none of the expendables will be a full-time recruitable squadmate?

A: Not many.



Q: Does the shooter crowd give a crap about squadmates?

A: No.



Q: Would many people like to see a newly introduced squadmates, provided the story of the old ones is continued in the form of NPC?

A: Yes.



Q: Will keeping the squad from ME2, provided they all need substitutes in case they kicked it, be more cost effective in development then having them as NPCs with generic substitutes and the squad that doesn't need substitutes?

A: No.



Q: Should new players be welcome to purchase ME3?

A: New customers are always right.



Q: Will new customers appreciate if we keep the squad from ME2?

A: No.

[TyDurden13]

First of all, we don't know yet how characters will be implemented into ME3. Everything is just speculation. Personally my feeling, that I've stated in about 50 of these threads so far, is that the way characters are implemented into ME games are largely modular and not that taxing on resources, especially in a game where all the other major resources are pretty much in place. 4-5 dialogue trees, a few post-mission lines, and mission chatter can be recorded in a couple of voice sessions (voice actors in games get paid by the 4-hour session, typically) My bet would be that some could return in large roles or as squadmates (and will be survivors in "canon" non-import playthroughs), and others will get cameos if they survived. But again, that is just speculation on my part, and not particularly worth discussing until we know more.

Second, I find the "what is the point of emotional investment in characters" talk a bit puzzling. If you really feel that way, what is the point of investment in ANY character, be it in books, tv, film, or what have you? If you don't care about finding out about people, their stories, their past, what makes them tick, etc., then I don't know what to say.   Fiction in general may not be for you.

However, if you do want to be strictly utilitarian about it, i would say the "point" of the ME2 characters' stories was this: they broadened the scope of the IP and fleshed out the universe. Through their histories, we got background on the various political factions, races, corporations, and worlds that make up the ME galaxy. That would be "world building."

Third, regarding consequences: like I said in another thread: if you're expecting the entire structure of the game to change based on your choices, you're going to be disappointed. This, rather than character implementation, is what would create too many divergent paths and tax resources beyond their max. You'll still be visiting the same locations and playing the same story missions no matter what you chose. What can reasonably change is who you run into on those missions, and their outlook; the 'feel" of the world, and some cutscenes at various places, mostly probably in the endgame.

Personally I felt like they did a reasonable job of making me feel like my ME2 choices meant something, Mostly through atmosphere - NPC dialogue, news flashes, etc., the world felt like a darker place in my renegade playthroughs - arms buildups, rising tensions, protests, etc. I was happy to hear places like Zhu's Hope were now flourishing in my Paragon playthrough.

But yeah, if you were hoping to get +5 against synthetics if you let the Alliance keep Samesh's wife's body, then yeah you have all the reason i the world to be let down.

Modifié par TyDurden13, 24 février 2010 - 03:36 .

[Ecael]

Barquiel wrote...

Ecael wrote...

I could definitely see Garrus, Tali, Jacob and Miranda returning as squadmates in ME3, but as for Thane and Jack... I think it was just more of a fling for those two. Jack isn't exactly a leading fan favorite.

Oghren isn't exactly a fan favorite either;)

Actually, Dragon Age just updated with a new Dwarf Warrior companion (now they've shown 3 of the 6 characters). I'm not so sure it's Oghren anymore.

http://dragonage.bio...aracter/sigrun/

Modifié par Ecael, 24 février 2010 - 03:33 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Bioware has a plan, no one would make a game focus on a sucide mission, then tell us that your Li will have an importent part in ME3 and building friendship with the new crew and not have a plan for it in ME3. Introducing a whole new squad in ME3 will ****** off ALOT of people, I did not mine how ME LI where handled. Ash's scene was very emointial and made cheating on her with Miranada easy. The thing is they where left put so they could have a part in ME2, Bioware doing nothing with ME2 LI (which are better then ME LI) would ****** off too many people.

Dont you see the conflict in saying "we arent giving the ME1 LIs a big role so that they are safe for ME3" and then giving the ME2 squad an equally important role in ME3? Its BS hypocrisy, and shows that they could have added the ME1 LIs into ME2 in a good role if they wanted, they just made an excuse not to.

The fact that the ME1 LIs have practically no presence in ME2 has to be made up for in ME3, otherwise it was a waste of the time and they should have just ditched the characters right then and there.

Likewise the ME2 squad in ME3 may have to face up to the fact that potentially any of them could be dead come ME3.

If they remain squadmates in ME3, I cant see them as being anything but flat and lifeless due to a lack of development. Have a squad approaching 15+ in ME3 would be ridiculous, and even if its a "pick and choose" style, thats still ridiculous due to the amount of content needed for each (otherwise, like I said, flat and lifeless).

I dont have all the friggin answers. I just think based on everything weve seen, the majority of the ME2 squad could simply be in for cameo roles. Otherwise ME3 will end up having so many permutations based on a game made around about 2 years earlier that could make it a very messy experience.

[FlintlockJazz]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...


Wow, bitter and a hypocrite much?  So they should lose out on a satisfying conclusion to their LIs because the ME1 romances didn't get much screentime in 2?  You got your ME1 LIs in ME1, so it's kinda ******-for-tat in that regards, hell the ME1 romances were actually carried through in 2, if you didn't get the whole 'temptation' thing they tried to do with the ME2 romances (particularly Miranda) as part of the dark second act then you're seriously missing the plot.

Wow, stupid and ignorant much? Ive already mentioned once, the entire point behind ME2 was that "EVERYONE CAN DIE". Bioware certainly werent joking in that regard, and while it may be ****** easy to get everyone to survive, the variance in who can die and how was impressive. That creates some massive complications that Bioware claim they left the ME1 LIs out of ME2 to avoid. I didnt like it that the ME1 Lis were left out of ME2, but I had to put up with it and hope it pays off in the end. The same goes for all the new ME2 LI fans who have to accept that on a lot of playthroughs their LIs died for many folks, and that screws potentially screws up their ME3 role. If you cant get that, then its you whos seriously missing the point. That "temptation" doesnt count for **** if Miranda is a corpse, and you better believe she will be on some folks saves. Are they really going to go to great lengths to integrate her into the plot if for a massive number of gamers it wont mean anything/even be present? I personally dont think so.

No I'm not, as I'm not the one who posts complaints about LIs not being in the second while attacking others for hoping that their LIs will be in the third.  I am perfectly aware of the variance for the ending in ME2 thank you very much, this is why this thread is here, to debate how Bioware might handle it.

In most trilogies that involve romance, the LI from the first part is often estranged from the main character in the second part, during which the main character's devotion is tested by a new woman (who may or may not survive), only to have the main character and the LI reunite in the final act or for some sort of resolution.  It's typical trilogy-romance, and not to be unexpected, hell even Pirates of the Caribbean pulled it off! 

Finally, alot of people did choose to romance the characters in ME2, and alot of people also started a default Shep, who isn't in a romance with the ME1 characters, so by your logic why should Bioware bother with ME1 romances in ME3 then if it's not going to affect a massive number of gamers?

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
*snip*

Q: Would such a "new" approach to the final act of the trilogy make for a monumentally crap ending in a game series where decisions were supposed to have effects?
A: YES!

Q: Is anyone coming in at the last act of a trilogy not expecting to be confused and out of their league a brain dead moron, regardless of any "new money is always best" mantra?
A: YES!

[Zulu_DFA]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, Tali, Grunt, Mordin, Jack, Thane and Legion have no reasons to leave. Miranda and Jacob stay with you, Garrus is like Shepards best friend, Tali is like a little sister or a LI. You are Grunts battlemaster. Mordin loves working on hard work so staying with Shepard is logical. Jack HAS no where to go. Thane is dieing and would most likely stay with his friend or lover. Legion is Shepards terminal to the Geth.

People like Samara will probably have a cameo. DLC squadmates will most likely not show up. The thing is making a new squad in ME3 will hurt Bioware big time because alot of people will be pissed. The thing is Bioware must have a plan or they would not have made ME2 into a suicide mission.

The plan is: kick Reapers in the arse. Other things just go to paragon/renegade counter.