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[sinosleep]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Quick question. I havent used max pull on shephard yet, but I put 1 point into it and noticed that it fired a projectile at my enemy

I use max pull field on my squad and noticed that it is instantaneous.

My question is this: Is pull field instantaneous for everyone, or does pull field have a projectile only with shephard but is instant if used by a squadmate.

If pull field is instant than I think it could be worth getting for shephard, but if it fires a projectile whereas squad pull field is instant than the choice is obviously to only use pull field on your squadmates and ignore it on shephard.

While squad pull is instant, it's also not on a 2 second cool down. The reason to get it is for the obscene cool down and utility. Being as I don't have access to warp as a vanguard, I don't want to waste squad cool downs on pull, when they are far better spent on warp. If you watch part 2 of my suicide run vid you'll see how much easier area pull and it's ludicrously tiny cool down make the biotic bubble section and husk swarm. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 février 2010 - 12:12 .

[Sabresandiego]

sinosleep wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Quick question. I havent used max pull on shephard yet, but I put 1 point into it and noticed that it fired a projectile at my enemy

I use max pull field on my squad and noticed that it is instantaneous.

My question is this: Is pull field instantaneous for everyone, or does pull field have a projectile only with shephard but is instant if used by a squadmate.

If pull field is instant than I think it could be worth getting for shephard, but if it fires a projectile whereas squad pull field is instant than the choice is obviously to only use pull field on your squadmates and ignore it on shephard.

While squad pull is instant, it's also not on a 2 second cool down. The reason to get it is for the obscene cool down and utility. Being as I don't have access to warp as a vanguard, I don't want to waste squad cool downs on pull, when they are far better spent on warp. If you watch part 2 of my suicide run vid you'll see how much easier area pull and it's ludicrously tiny cool down make the biotic bubble section and husk swarm. 

You put pull to good use. I need to buy fraps and start making my own videos though because area reave owns that place even harder. I can area reave then instantly pull field with jack to sen multiple husks flying and I dont have to fire a single shot. Any husk which I miss with my biotics I just blast with my shotgun. It is more effect than having pull field on shephard. If you dont want to bring along a teamate who has pull field, than I can see how having pull field on shephard is a great choice.

[RamsenC]

Sabresandiego wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Quick question. I havent used max pull on shephard yet, but I put 1 point into it and noticed that it fired a projectile at my enemy

I use max pull field on my squad and noticed that it is instantaneous.

My question is this: Is pull field instantaneous for everyone, or does pull field have a projectile only with shephard but is instant if used by a squadmate.

If pull field is instant than I think it could be worth getting for shephard, but if it fires a projectile whereas squad pull field is instant than the choice is obviously to only use pull field on your squadmates and ignore it on shephard.

While squad pull is instant, it's also not on a 2 second cool down. The reason to get it is for the obscene cool down and utility. Being as I don't have access to warp as a vanguard, I don't want to waste squad cool downs on pull, when they are far better spent on warp. If you watch part 2 of my suicide run vid you'll see how much easier area pull and it's ludicrously tiny cool down make the biotic bubble section and husk swarm. 

You put pull to good use. I need to buy fraps and start making my own videos though because area reave owns that place even harder. I can area reave then instantly pull field with jack to sen multiple husks flying and I dont have to fire a single shot. Any husk which I miss with my biotics I just blast with my shotgun. It is more effect than having pull field on shephard. If you dont want to bring along a teamate who has pull field, than I can see how having pull field on shephard is a great choice.

Or you could bring Samara for Area Reave and you can do the pulling. 

[Sabresandiego]

RamsenC wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Quick question. I havent used max pull on shephard yet, but I put 1 point into it and noticed that it fired a projectile at my enemy

I use max pull field on my squad and noticed that it is instantaneous.

My question is this: Is pull field instantaneous for everyone, or does pull field have a projectile only with shephard but is instant if used by a squadmate.

If pull field is instant than I think it could be worth getting for shephard, but if it fires a projectile whereas squad pull field is instant than the choice is obviously to only use pull field on your squadmates and ignore it on shephard.

While squad pull is instant, it's also not on a 2 second cool down. The reason to get it is for the obscene cool down and utility. Being as I don't have access to warp as a vanguard, I don't want to waste squad cool downs on pull, when they are far better spent on warp. If you watch part 2 of my suicide run vid you'll see how much easier area pull and it's ludicrously tiny cool down make the biotic bubble section and husk swarm. 

You put pull to good use. I need to buy fraps and start making my own videos though because area reave owns that place even harder. I can area reave then instantly pull field with jack to sen multiple husks flying and I dont have to fire a single shot. Any husk which I miss with my biotics I just blast with my shotgun. It is more effect than having pull field on shephard. If you dont want to bring along a teamate who has pull field, than I can see how having pull field on shephard is a great choice.

Or you could bring Samara for Area Reave and you can do the pulling. 

Thats not nearly as good, I can get reave to a nearly 4 second cooldown on my vanguard, and pull field cools down for jack in like 6 seconds or less? so its perfect synergy. Samara area reave cooldown is like 10 seconds I think? Im not sure of the exact numbers, but area reave + squad pull field is the most efficient in regards to cooldowns and instant cast times.

[RamsenC]

I mentioned this in the vanguard thread, but a slightly longer cooldown reave from Samara is better than a shorter cooldown reave that puts all your abilities on cooldown. If casting reave every 4 seconds is that important to you, I suggest adept and singularity instead.

[Sabresandiego]

RamsenC wrote...

I mentioned this in the vanguard thread, but a slightly longer cooldown reave from Samara is better than a shorter cooldown reave that puts all your abilities on cooldown. If casting reave every 4 seconds is that important to you, I suggest adept and singularity instead.

Why? I like charge far better than singularity. Like I said, you dont use reave when you are up in an enemies face blasting with a shotgun. At that point all your cooldowns are for charge so you can replenish shields. The time you use reave is before your initial charge.

[RamsenC]

No point in having this debate in two threads. Going to stop posting in this one.

[aeetos21]

reave is overrated. ap+squad cryp works wonders - see other thread for details

[cyvaris]

I second the AP ammo vote. I was plying a vanguard and switching between Reave and Barrier, then I read that guide and tried out AP ammo. Dear God I love that power. I can take down scions with it and the pistol(about two clips total depending on difficulty). It shreads everything, and has a very nice graphic, giant blood splatters for all.

[sinosleep]

Avoid AP ammo as a bonus talent at all costs. On a vanguard AP ammo makes no difference whatsoever in kill speed and results in a loss of invaluable area crowd control. Here is video evidence of just how useless AP ammo truly is on a vanguard. Absolutely no difference whatsoever in kill speed, but you lose the ability to ignite groups of enemies without even trying. And for those that think enemies have to be stripped of defenses in order to ignite, skip to 3:09 of this vid and you will see that is simply not the case. I charged a fully shielded enemy, lit him up like a christmas tree, turn to my right and what do I see? A fully shielded enemy trying to put himself out because he got ignited while I was killing the first. Incendiary ammo is far, FAR, superior to AP ammo on a vanguard.

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Avoid AP ammo as a bonus talent at all costs. On a vanguard AP ammo makes no difference whatsoever in kill speed and results in a loss of invaluable area crowd control. Here is video evidence of just how useless AP ammo truly is on a vanguard. Absolutely no difference whatsoever in kill speed, but you lose the ability to ignite groups of enemies without even trying. And for those that think enemies have to be stripped of defenses in order to ignite, skip to 3:09 of this vid and you will see that is simply not the case. I charged a fully shielded enemy, lit him up like a christmas tree, turn to my right and what do I see? A fully shielded enemy trying to put himself out because he got ignited while I was killing the first. Incendiary ammo is far, FAR, superior to AP ammo on a vanguard.

Amen.

Unfortunately some people still do not get it (padaE comes to mind).

Modifié par Kronner, 25 février 2010 - 12:29 .

[rumination888]

sinosleep wrote...

Avoid AP ammo as a bonus talent at all costs. On a vanguard AP ammo makes no difference whatsoever in kill speed and results in a loss of invaluable area crowd control. Here is video evidence of just how useless AP ammo truly is on a vanguard. Absolutely no difference whatsoever in kill speed, but you lose the ability to ignite groups of enemies without even trying. And for those that think enemies have to be stripped of defenses in order to ignite, skip to 3:09 of this vid and you will see that is simply not the case. I charged a fully shielded enemy, lit him up like a christmas tree, turn to my right and what do I see? A fully shielded enemy trying to put himself out because he got ignited while I was killing the first. Incendiary ammo is far, FAR, superior to AP ammo on a vanguard.

Incendiary Ammo is by far the best ammo skill, followed closely by Disrupter vs. synthetics.
Its the reason why pretty much all of my videos has me using incendiary ammo, even when I'm not a Soldier or Vanguard.

Incinerate works the same way in that it will briefly CC protected organics, which in turn, makes Cryo Blast weaker than it already is.
Same deal with Warp vs. other biotics.

I get the feeling a lot of people don't play around with skills enough to get a firm grasp of whats good and whats not as good. Either that or they're in denial.

Modifié par rumination888, 25 février 2010 - 01:12 .

[Roxlimn]

By far? Certainly not. An Infiltrator does not need his opponents flailing about not shooting at him, because he doesn't expose himself very much anyway, if he's going up close, he can always use Cryo Ammo. In fact, having opponents flailing about kind of ruins consecutive Viper headshotting because the head moves every which way. Also same for enemies that aren't one-shotted by Widow when you finally get that ammo.

Quite apart from that, an Infiltrator can't get Inciendary Ammo anyway, unless he's using a squad version and that tops out at 40%, IIRC, and then he has to use Grunt or Jacob. AP Ammo is a decent pick up for Infiltrator on those grounds, strengthening his already fantastic anti-armor Widow capabilities.

Same reasoning for Sentinel. He can get a wide variety of defense stripping powers, but he's a little light on crowd control and killing capability. If we're talking ammo powers, it's between Warp and AP Ammo. Some people prefer Warp, but I found it weaker in terms of overall impact compared to AP Ammo, especially on a Sniper-focused Sentinel. Sentinels don't need help dealing with Barriers. They can Warp those away. They need help killing Health, and AP Ammo does that across all enemy types with a respectable 70% bonus on evolution.

ON A VANGUARD, I would agree that AP Ammo tends to be redundant with Inciendary Ammo, which performs better considering Vanguard interests, anyways.  It's a nice pick up for flavor, if you're leaning towards wasting a slot and some points (maybe to make Insanity more challenging), but it's not all that.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 25 février 2010 - 01:38 .

[mosor]

Chose the bonus skill that best helps you on your current mission that suits your game play. Geez you only need 29,500 element zero to get every upgrade possible and with a second playthrough you get 50k off the bat. That's plenty of retrains and advanced trainings without even picking up a single element zero crate. The retrain powers isn't just because you messed up your character points, it's to give you the best build to suit your gameplay for a particular mission.

Modifié par mosor, 25 février 2010 - 02:21 .

[ian528]

What about dominate as the bonus skill?

[nofanboy]

Roxlimn wrote...

They need help killing Health, and AP Ammo does that across all enemy types with a respectable 70% bonus on evolution.

No class needs help killing health.  Some classes just do it a little faster.  Health should be the least of anyone's concerns since by that point every power in your arsenal becomes effective against the enemy. 

Two of the more important things in this game are stripping protection and not getting shot at.  AP ammo does the former slightly better than incendiary, but does nothing in regards to the latter.  Incendiary when maxed to inferno specialization and using the SMG will impact enough collateral enemies to make it totally worth it for anyone.  It doesn't happen all the time.  But it happened enough with my vanguard that if I saw 3 enemies clustered together I stopped using reave to strip defenses, instead I'd spray with the SMG until one or two caught on fire then charge the group.

Though I do agree that on a sniper specialist going for single target kills, AP ammo is probably the better choice. 

[expanding panic]

Reave is the best by far you can stun them and gain health

[SpockLives]

@ OP: You say the difficulty is Veteran. You really don't need a bonus power. Vanguards' powers are just fine without a bonus.

[Roxlimn]

nofanboy:



I find the reverse is true. All classes need to put some attention into killing health because a significant number of powers and modifications are weak against Health, specifically. This is especially true of the Sentinel whose stock in trade: Warp and Overload, are anti-defense powers and his Tech Armor already aids his survivability (so he doesn't need further help there, really).



If you're not careful you can end up with a tough Sentinel that can't actually kill anything.



In fact, Warp, Overload, and Reave are best used as defense-stripping powers in order to allow you to utilize your actual uber-powers to work, which you hopefully haven't skimped on. Sentinel is relatively gimped in this regard because his best power against Health is Cryo Blast and you can't open that until you have Rank 2 in Tech Armor, and Rank 2 in Overload - takes quite a while and spreads out your points a lot.



Stripping defenses is only important if you keep thinking about what you can't do rather than what you can do. They don't kill the guy. They don't incapacitate the guy. Defense strippers don't DO anything in and of themselves other than deal HP damage, and allow you to use the powers that actually matter. The best power applications are powers that kill outright, or incapacitate enemies, singly or en masse. Those are powers that WIN.



We mustn't put the donkey before the cart. Defense stripping is important in that it allows you to use the powers that win the game. They're still not as important as those powers.

[padaE]

I pick AP ammo cause all other skills don't fit the Vanguard playstyle.
.
I was arguing with some people sooner and they were saying how AP ammo is not better than Incendiary ammo because the difference is to small and the second set enemys on fire. But I don't see the big deal of it, for exemple, in the Garrus loyalty mission video the guy posted here, he indeed set a turan on fire, but that changed nothing. If he wasn't on fire, the outcome would be the same. At least that what I think after speding a great time with Vanguard.
.
Maybe is just personal preference, but AP ammo just feel better to me.
.
If somehow it was making my Vanguard worse, I would just change it. Im not, I don't know how to say this in english, an... not open minded. I would glady make any change in my character to make it better.

Modifié par padaE, 25 février 2010 - 03:53 .

[sinosleep]

@Roxlimn Did you not read the 2nd sentence I posted? I SPECIFIED, FOR A VANGUARD. Then provided video evidence that it takes THE SAME AMOUNT OF SHOTS to kill with any of the shot guns with inferno or AP ammo. If it takes the same amount of time, and one provides crowd control while the other doesn't it's not exactly a hard decision to make now is it? So actually, yes on a vanguard, it's not even remotely close to a competition. Inferno ammo is CLEARLY the superior ammo type.

p.s. And this is before getting to the fact that on top of all this, it STOPS HEALTH REGEN. It really, really, isn't remotely close here. 

@PadaE, this is the last time I bother replying to you before putting you on virtual ignore. If they are on fire they can't shoot you. If they can't shoot you, you aren't taking damage. THAT is an advantage no matter how much you try to argue to the contrary. You are arguing against sound logic here with nothing but personal preference which is why I am dismissing you entirely. Get back to me when you actually have an argument.

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 février 2010 - 06:11 .

[FataliTensei]

AP ammor is the best, Vangurd's shotguns are great against sheild, barriers and health, their only weakness is armor, AP ammo elimates this weakness and boosts damage to health as well

Reave is good, but the cooldown is too long for the fast paced, high-risk high-reward style of the vanguard, you need your main power to be charge,for movement, sheild boost, and time slowdown

Warp is good all around ammo, but I personally just like how AP rips armor apart

EDIT: Inferno ammo had a nice effect, but it's damage over time and vaguard needs quick kills, AP does more damage to armor and health

Squad Cryo ammo is much better than inferno ammo anyway, with Squad cryo on your squad's crowd control ability goes way up

Modifié par FataliTensei, 25 février 2010 - 06:15 .

[sinosleep]

Watch the video FataliTensei, AP ammo DOES NOT kill any faster than inferno ammo does. They BOTH took 5 shots to kill a rachni with the scimi and 3 shots to kill it with the evi. The 10% damage makes no noticeable difference whatsoever on insanity. And to get it you 1.) waste a bonus talent 2.) give up crowd control 3.) give up stopping health regen and 4.) waste another 10 points if you had any plans on utilizing squad cryo ammo. I'm sorry to tell you but this isn't my opinion, its THE FACTS as backed up by video evidence.

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 février 2010 - 06:17 .

[FataliTensei]

sinosleep wrote...

Watch the video FataliTensei, AP ammo DOES NOT kill any faster than inferno ammo does. They BOTH took 5 shots to kill a rachni with the scimi and 3 shots to kill it with the evi. The 10% damage makes no noticeable difference whatsoever on insanity. And to get it you 1.) waste a bonus talent 2.) give up crowd control 3.) give up stopping health regen and 4.) waste another 10 points if you had any plans on utilizing squad cryo ammo. I'm sorry to tell you but this isn't my opinion, its THE FACTS as backed up by video evidence.

1: I use claymore, so scimi and evi are irrelivant to me
2: I've tried both, AP is better and fast becaue it is instat

3: You're using weaker shotguns that take longer to kill, of course inferno seems to be working the same, you're drawing out it's death andtaking longer
4: AP ammo gives you 70% damage bonus to health an armor, not 10%

[sinosleep]

expletive deleted

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 février 2010 - 06:28 .