118 réponses à ce sujet

[nofanboy]

Roxlimn wrote...

nofanboy:

I find the reverse is true. All classes need to put some attention into killing health because a significant number of powers and modifications are weak against Health, specifically. This is especially true of the Sentinel whose stock in trade: Warp and Overload, are anti-defense powers and his Tech Armor already aids his survivability (so he doesn't need further help there, really).

If you're not careful you can end up with a tough Sentinel that can't actually kill anything.

In fact, Warp, Overload, and Reave are best used as defense-stripping powers in order to allow you to utilize your actual uber-powers to work, which you hopefully haven't skimped on. Sentinel is relatively gimped in this regard because his best power against Health is Cryo Blast and you can't open that until you have Rank 2 in Tech Armor, and Rank 2 in Overload - takes quite a while and spreads out your points a lot.

Stripping defenses is only important if you keep thinking about what you can't do rather than what you can do. They don't kill the guy. They don't incapacitate the guy. Defense strippers don't DO anything in and of themselves other than deal HP damage, and allow you to use the powers that actually matter. The best power applications are powers that kill outright, or incapacitate enemies, singly or en masse. Those are powers that WIN.

We mustn't put the donkey before the cart. Defense stripping is important in that it allows you to use the powers that win the game. They're still not as important as those powers.

I could not disagree more.  In this game the most valuable powers are those that strip protection.  I don't know how anyone who has played this game on higher difficulty settings think that health stripping abilities are more important than protection stripping abilities. 

If that was the case why is reave and AP/warp ammo considered the best bonus skills on most classes.  If health stripping was more important then everyone would just use shredder ammo, which does more damage to health than any other ammo type.  But no one does, becuse shredder ammo sucks.  The reason is because health can be dealt with so many ways.  Until then you're limited as to what you can do.  I'll use your sentinel as an example.  With an armored or shield enemy you only have two choices, either shoot or use overload/warp.  Once you get that enemy down to health, the number of powers that can kill the enemy doubles.  Now you can also spam throw or cryo blast away.

[Acero Azul]

 From personal experiences you do not need any other ammo skills, the inferno ammo is perfectly fine coupled with neural shockwave, heavy shockwave, heavy charge, and champion

[sinosleep]

FataliTensei wrote...
1: I use claymore, so scimi and evi are irrelivant to me
2: I've tried both, AP is better and fast becaue it is instat

3: You're using weaker shotguns that take longer to kill, of course inferno seems to be working the same, you're drawing out it's death andtaking longer
4: AP ammo gives you 70% damage bonus to health an armor, not 10%

Jesus Christ are you people being dense on purpose? God damn it this is tedious. AP ammo does 70% damage bonus. Inferno does 60% damage bonus. Take a wild guess as to what the difference between the two is? Oh wait, could it be the 10% I mentioned? YES it is. 

The claymore functions exactly the same way as the evi and scimi do, the only reason I didn't include it is cause I don't have a claymore file at the same spot. It works like this, with AP ammo the claymore one shots things and nothing else, with inferno ammo the claymore one shots things and sets people on fire. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 février 2010 - 06:29 .

[FataliTensei]

sinosleep wrote...

It works the same way for the claymore, the only reason I didn't make a vid of it is cause I don't have a claymore save in the same area. You guys are friggen hopeless. Just keep on believing the fallacy that AP ammo kills things quicker when it takes the same amount of shots on any of the shot guns. 

Fine I'll give inferno another look, happy now?

[sinosleep]

Well it's irritating when I'm THE ONLY ONE posting any kind of evidence and I'm being told it's not correct, when quite clearly, it is. Hell if anything inferno ammo is even more effective on the claymore since because of the slow firing rate it gives the inferno ammo dot (which only applies to health it does the armor piercing damage instantly) more time to do it's work in between shots on enemies with a large enough health bar to not get one shotted.

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 février 2010 - 06:32 .

[FataliTensei]

Back on topic, what;s the best bonus power then?



Reave takes too long to cooldown for some people

Apparently Inferno is superior to Tungsten

No one's even talking about Warp Ammo >_>

[FataliTensei]

sinosleep wrote...

Well it's irritating when I'm THE ONLY ONE posting any kind of evidence and I'm being told it's not correct, when quite clearly, it is. Hell if anything inferno ammo is even more effective on the claymore since because of the slow firing rate it gives the inferno ammo dot (which only applies to health it does the armor piercing damage instantly) more time to do it's work in between shots on enemies with a large enough health bar to not get one shotted.

The reason I prefer the instant with claymore is I have enemies I can instant ill, even with armor when I use AP, as long as I aim right during he slowdown with charge and get a headshot, and I do most of the time, even after that f I miss a perfect headshot,  all it takes is one melee and they go down

Lol also i use the claymor reload trick, so my rate of fire is a bit higher than it's supposed to be

Modifié par FataliTensei, 25 février 2010 - 06:36 .

[Pedro Costa]

Only really useful bonus for a Vanguard would be disruptor ammo (upgrading to squad disruptor instead of squad cryo and we'd be set for all and any mission), alas, it's the one type of ammo we can't get at all, any other powers?

Meh... Maybe Reave since it deals good damage to enemy barriers/armor/health from cover/long distance...

[sinosleep]

FataliTensei wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Well it's irritating when I'm THE ONLY ONE posting any kind of evidence and I'm being told it's not correct, when quite clearly, it is. Hell if anything inferno ammo is even more effective on the claymore since because of the slow firing rate it gives the inferno ammo dot (which only applies to health it does the armor piercing damage instantly) more time to do it's work in between shots on enemies with a large enough health bar to not get one shotted.

The reason I prefer the instant with claymore is I have enemies I can instant ill, even with armor when I use AP, as long as I aim right during he slowdown with charge and get a headshot, and I do most of the time, even after that f I miss a perfect headshot,  all it takes is one melee and they go down

Lol also i use the claymor reload trick, so my rate of fire is a bit higher than it's supposed to be

Anything you can insta-kill with ap gets insta-killed with inferno. Except you have the bonus of crowd controlling anyone that happens to be nearby. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 février 2010 - 06:39 .

[FataliTensei]

sinosleep wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Well it's irritating when I'm THE ONLY ONE posting any kind of evidence and I'm being told it's not correct, when quite clearly, it is. Hell if anything inferno ammo is even more effective on the claymore since because of the slow firing rate it gives the inferno ammo dot (which only applies to health it does the armor piercing damage instantly) more time to do it's work in between shots on enemies with a large enough health bar to not get one shotted.

The reason I prefer the instant with claymore is I have enemies I can instant ill, even with armor when I use AP, as long as I aim right during he slowdown with charge and get a headshot, and I do most of the time, even after that f I miss a perfect headshot,  all it takes is one melee and they go down

Lol also i use the claymor reload trick, so my rate of fire is a bit higher than it's supposed to be

Anything you can insta-kill with ap gets insta-killed with inferno. Except you have the bonus of crowd controlling anyone that happens to be nearby. 

Right....look I'll give inferno another try, just because you're so sure about this

[nofanboy]

FataliTensei wrote...

Back on topic, what;s the best bonus power then?

Reave takes too long to cooldown for some people
Apparently Inferno is superior to Tungsten
No one's even talking about Warp Ammo >_>

It took me a while to realize that incendiary was the all-round better ammo choice over AP ammo as well.  That was mostly because the I hadn't fully evolved to inferno ammo.  Once I did, I notice the crowd control benefits of the ammo type and never looked back.

Sinosleep--Believe me when I say that there are plenty of people that you have convinced with you're case (thought I still needed to see it for myself

At any rate, going back to topic, if I were to take a bonus skill, it would be reave.  I hate the cooldown but at least it deals damage to protected enemies, giving you options when they are perched in places you can't charge too. Also, I'm not good enough to charge into an area that has more than three enemies, especially if some of them have protection.  So I might use reave to soften them up a bit.

[Aradace]

I keep hearing about "reload cancel" with the claymore yet I can never get a clear answer as to how to do it. Any takers?

[sinosleep]

Aradace wrote...

I keep hearing about "reload cancel" with the claymore yet I can never get a clear answer as to how to do it. Any takers?

Hold down the fire button, the weapon will fire, keep holding it down and when you hear the click during the reload animation hit the melee button, you will melee and the weapon will fire. 

[Aradace]

sinosleep wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I keep hearing about "reload cancel" with the claymore yet I can never get a clear answer as to how to do it. Any takers?

Hold down the fire button, the weapon will fire, keep holding it down and when you hear the click during the reload animation hit the melee button, you will melee and the weapon will fire. 

Nice...appreciate that lol

[sinosleep]

Make sure to hold down the fire button for the duration. I've never gotten the trick to work if I let go. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 février 2010 - 07:26 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

sinosleep wrote...

DeathByWoodchipper wrote...

Seems like their is a pretty good consensus on Reave. The "problem" I have with it is its 6 second recharge time which kind of gets in the way of the fast-paced play style of the Vanguard.

That's why I prefer the no bonus talent vanguard build. I think both area pull (2 second cool down with upgrads, insta-kills husks, sets up biotic combos) and squad cryo ammo are better than any bonus talent a vanguard can get. 

I'm starting to think a no bonus talent Vanguard might be less redundant as well, primarily because Area Pull is so valuable (couldn't care less for Cryo Ammo). My only regret is that Pull NEEDS a lvl 2 Shockwave to become available.

If anything I'd say I need more squad points to be truly happy with my Vanguard. 51 just isn't enough. 10 for Inferno Ammo, 10 for Champion and 10 for Charge, those 3 are basically a given. 3 in Shockwave just for Pull to unlock and 10 to get Area Pull, at this point the remaining 8 points are better spent to evolve Shockwave (+ 1 for either Cryo Ammo or a Bonus Talent) than put into a non-evolved Bonus Power (lvl 3, which leaves you with 2 spare points of which you can only put 1 in Cryo Ammo).

[FataliTensei]

Just use the skill point trick



Max out a skill and when you get to last part to upgrade, instead of pressing just A, use X+A and you'll upgrade to the final level and get your points back

[Kaiser Shepard]

Nah, no glitches for me. Mass Effect is too good an experience to ruin with exploits.

[mundus66]

I usually only put 1 talent in my bonus talent so i usually go with Barrier. If you plan on maxing it though reave is your best choice. But i think nearly every situation where reave is good, there is a better option for vanguard.

Barrier has 2 uses even though it has long cooldown. First its good to use before a battle to get extra shields on your first charge. And when charge just isn't an option. You can always use it to recharge your barriers, to get back out and continue to shoot earlier. No other bonus is better than this with only 1 talent imo (although its pretty limited too).

Modifié par mundus66, 25 février 2010 - 08:16 .

[DeathByWoodchipper]

Well, I've given Inferno Ammo a try, and while it does not deal as much damage as Armor-Piercing Ammo, the overall difference is hardly noticeable. As for the bonus power, Area Reave does an excellent job at defense stripping. Thanks for all your responses.

[nofanboy]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Nah, no glitches for me. Mass Effect is too good an experience to ruin with exploits.

If this is true then why do you say that you need more squad points to truly be happy with your vanguard?  How can something that will truly make you happy also ruin the experience for you?

I've tried this glitch on a new vanguard character simply because I value pull more than shockwave and there is simply no legit way to max pull and all other useful abilities (cryo ammo, incendiary ammo, champion, and charge) since you have to put 3 points in shockwave to get pull.  The good thing about the glitch is that you can do it to get as little as 4 extra points.  That's all I need to max pull and even put 1 point in a bonus skill (reave, which I hardly use anyway).

I don't feel bad about exploiting this glitch.  After all, I've played beaten this game straight up enough times.  The fact that I can now have max pull instead of max shockwave while keep all the other abilities I value offers a slightly different playing experience without really altering the challenge or gameplay too much.  I can finally use area pull + squadmate warp combo with my vanguard

If I get bored of the playthrough, I can always deleted it.

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

So nobody is going to mention that Reave has the side benifit of healing you (once it pops the protection)? Nice little side bonus for a class that "gets in your face", a lot.

[weirdscientist]

FataliTensei wrote...

Just use the skill point trick

Max out a skill and when you get to last part to upgrade, instead of pressing just A, use X+A and you'll upgrade to the final level and get your points back

Interesting, I tried that trick and I don't get my points back. I have a level 28 Shepard and chose to retrain my powers since I have plenty of points to experiment with. Pressed X+A at the last upgrade screen. No dice...perhaps it was patched or am I doing something wrong?

[Arde5643]

As a vanguard, bonus skills don't really matter for you - incendiary ammo trumps over AP ammo big time thanks to CC bonus.



However, reave and energy drain are decent bonus skills to use for any mission where you cannot reach enemies with charge or cannot do so safely (against YMIR/praetorians).



Think of them as your long range support skills.

[aeetos21]

incendiary trumps and having squad cryo does wonders. i got squad cryo right as i hit garrus's recruitment mission (the +50 experience you get from the Sgt. Cathka interrupt) and then one moment - I'm only seeing people freezing as I'm shooting. The next I'm charging around the battlefield and seeing all sorts of frozen bodies lying on tables and stairwells.



Like a f*cking easter egg hunt