38 réponses à ce sujet

[FireDragon076]

You assume that it is Morrigan that you impregnate and not Flemmeth.  This may have been the plan all along, why you got saved, why Morrigan was sent with you.  You killed Flemmeth?  Where did her essence go?  Morrigan.  It was all set up from the start.  All these people hoping to see Morrigan again will be running into Flemmeth, now with god child.

Modifié par FireDragon076, 25 février 2010 - 06:58 .

[SirOccam]

FireDragon076 wrote...

You assume that it is Morrigan that you impregnate and not Flemmeth.  This may have been the plan all along, why you got saved, why Morrigan was sent with you.  You killed Flemmeth?  Where did her essence go?  Morrigan.  It was all set up from the start.  All these people hoping to see Morrigan again will be running into Flemmeth, now with god child.

Man, if that turns out to be the case I am going to be SO pissed. Even the thought that you might be right is depressing.
No, no, I will find her and we'll live happily ever after! *plugs ears* Lalalalalalalalalala

[Time Spiral]

FireDragon076 wrote...

You assume that it is Morrigan that you impregnate and not Flemmeth.  This may have been the plan all along, why you got saved, why Morrigan was sent with you.  You killed Flemmeth?  Where did her essence go?  Morrigan.  It was all set up from the start.  All these people hoping to see Morrigan again will be running into Flemmeth, now with god child.

That is exactly what I assumed. I never confronted or killed Flemeth.

Yours is an interesting theory, but not very likely imho.

[JosieJ]

RavenOryon wrote...

Some good theories in here
I'm also of the mindset that some aspect of her ritual is designed to act as a beacon for the AD's essence making her newly conceived child the strongest attractor for it.

Doesn't Morrigan use that very explanation--including using the word "beacon"--when she's explaining the ritual to you?

[th8827]

I just had an idea. Maybe Flemeth knew about this ritual for creating god-children because she was a god-child created in the same way from a previous Archdemon. Let's think about it for a second.



1) When the Archdemon dies, his soul goes into the nearest tainted creature. It is assumed that Flemeth's soul transfers into her daughter's body when she grows old/dies. Maybe god-children retain their soul-transfer powers, but no longer requires the taint for it to transfer. Morrigan did mentioned that she assumes that Flemeth will take over another body and they will meet again, so it could be assumed that she can transfer her soul into anything, not just humans (or tainted creatures, as the case with Archdemons is). She just chooses human witches so that she could have powerful magic at her disposal.



2) Archdemons are powerful dragon-like beings. Flemmeth is powerful and can transform into a dragon. Morrigan explained that Shapeshifters could only transform into creatures that they fully understand, and Flemeth had no problem transforming into the most poweful type of dragon. Before it was corrupted, the Archdemon probably did not look as dark and sinister as the current one does, so it could stand to reason that the Old Gods look like High Dragons.



As such, facts seem to point towards Flemeth being a god-child.

[SirOccam]

Actually I just thought of something. If killing Flemeth allows her to take over Morrigan's body, and it was her plan all along, then why does she try to negotiate with you to spare her and just take her Grimoire?

[Inquisitor Recon]

I imagine unless a Grey Warden kills the Archdemon, it can go possess whatever the hell it wants. So if "Andraste" the dragon is still alive, you've got yourself a new Archdemon in dragon form.



The "ritual" with Morrigan is the exception to this rule however.



And I refuse to believe she was Flemeth! Damn I hated Flemeth.

[Nonvita]

ReconTeam wrote...

I imagine unless a Grey Warden kills the Archdemon, it can go possess whatever the hell it wants. So if "Andraste" the dragon is still alive, you've got yourself a new Archdemon in dragon form.

The "ritual" with Morrigan is the exception to this rule however.

And I refuse to believe she was Flemeth! Damn I hated Flemeth.

Nope, it's explained that the Archdemon's spirit travels into the nearest darkspawn if a Grey Warden doesn't kill it. It does not choose anything about where it goes.

[DJ0000]

ReconTeam wrote...

I imagine unless a Grey Warden kills the Archdemon, it can go possess whatever the hell it wants. So if "Andraste" the dragon is still alive, you've got yourself a new Archdemon in dragon form.

The "ritual" with Morrigan is the exception to this rule however.

And I refuse to believe she was Flemeth! Damn I hated Flemeth.

It can't posses anything, Riordan says it passes on through the taint to the nearest tainted being. So the being has to be a darkspawn, a ghoul or a Grey Warden. Even then, I'm not sure if it would go into a ghoul.

I don't think it was Flemeth, she will be encountered again imo, but I don't believe that she is already in Morrigan's body.

[guytza]

SirOccam wrote...

Actually I just thought of something. If killing Flemeth allows her to take over Morrigan's body, and it was her plan all along, then why does she try to negotiate with you to spare her and just take her Grimoire?

This is the problem I have with the Morrigan-is-Flemith theory, She first tries to dissuade you, then bribe you, then tries to kill you. On top of that, assuming that Morrigan is telling the body-hopping truth regarding Flemiths secret to eternal life, simply accepting her future as a 'sack waiting to be filled' is completely counter to her personality which in nearly every instance available wants or respects freedom. Sten in the cage, Circle of Magi allowing themselves to be corralled, even allowing demons to take over others are all options she actively dislikes.
Of course, there is a personality theory that the things we hate in others are the things we hate in ourselves, but thats too subtle a theory for this story style and would require showing alot of hypocricy in Morrigans actions.

So IMO,...Did Morrigan know about the 'dark ritual' ....yes, was that the reason she was sent with you....yes, did flemeth count on Morrigan learning her own ultimate future....no. Did Morrigan want Flemeth dead or a non-threat to her once learning the truth....yes.

I may have to replay my character current pre-awakenings character again just to kill off Flemeth.

[RavenOryon]

JosieJ wrote...

RavenOryon wrote...

Some good theories in here
I'm also of the mindset that some aspect of her ritual is designed to act as a beacon for the AD's essence making her newly conceived child the strongest attractor for it.

Doesn't Morrigan use that very explanation--including using the word "beacon"--when she's explaining the ritual to you?

You know, now that you mention it, yes, she does. lol  I just used it in context totally forgetting her use of it.

[krylo]

th8827 wrote...

I just had an idea. Maybe Flemeth knew about this ritual for creating god-children because she was a god-child created in the same way from a previous Archdemon. Let's think about it for a second.

1) When the Archdemon dies, his soul goes into the nearest tainted creature. It is assumed that Flemeth's soul transfers into her daughter's body when she grows old/dies. Maybe god-children retain their soul-transfer powers, but no longer requires the taint for it to transfer. Morrigan did mentioned that she assumes that Flemeth will take over another body and they will meet again, so it could be assumed that she can transfer her soul into anything, not just humans (or tainted creatures, as the case with Archdemons is). She just chooses human witches so that she could have powerful magic at her disposal.

2) Archdemons are powerful dragon-like beings. Flemmeth is powerful and can transform into a dragon. Morrigan explained that Shapeshifters could only transform into creatures that they fully understand, and Flemeth had no problem transforming into the most poweful type of dragon. Before it was corrupted, the Archdemon probably did not look as dark and sinister as the current one does, so it could stand to reason that the Old Gods look like High Dragons.

As such, facts seem to point towards Flemeth being a god-child.

I suggest a similar theory over here.

Though her knowing the ritual because she was born through it doesn't mesh with the Flemeth tale nor does it explain how the person who used it to create her knew it.

However, the idea that Flemeth is an Old God is one that I, personally, like, though I don't feel there's enough evidence for it to present it as more than an idle fancy at the current time.

Modifié par krylo, 26 février 2010 - 02:31 .

[Janni-in-VA]

I will apologize in advance to those of you who've already read the two other threads where I've posted what I'm about to say here. Please forgive me for repeating myself.



In the Codex entry on Dragon Cults by Brother Genitivi, we learn that high dragons are not the Old Gods of the Imperium. The Tevinter turned to dragon worship after the first blight when it seemed that their Old Gods had failed them. Therefore, what Morrigan is luring to her newly conceived child is not a god, but a dragon. She's luring a soul free of the taint, and what was that soul before the creature was tainted? Let's say it all together, "A dragon!". Brother Genitivi points out that we really don't know much about how dragons think or how intelligent or self-aware they might be. I can foresee all kinds of interesting possibilities regarding this dragon baby. =)



The fact that Flemeth shape-shifts into a high dragon? Ooooo, very intriguing! Morrigan tells you that in order to learn shape-shifting, you have to study the animal you want to shift into. You learn to move as it does, think as it does. Sooooo, wonder where Flemeth had a chance to study a high dragon? Can we say, "dragon cult"? I knew that we could! *muahahahaaaa*

[Marik333]

Janni-in-VA wrote...

I will apologize in advance to those of you who've already read the two other threads where I've posted what I'm about to say here. Please forgive me for repeating myself.

In the Codex entry on Dragon Cults by Brother Genitivi, we learn that high dragons are not the Old Gods of the Imperium. The Tevinter turned to dragon worship after the first blight when it seemed that their Old Gods had failed them. Therefore, what Morrigan is luring to her newly conceived child is not a god, but a dragon. She's luring a soul free of the taint, and what was that soul before the creature was tainted? Let's say it all together, "A dragon!". Brother Genitivi points out that we really don't know much about how dragons think or how intelligent or self-aware they might be. I can foresee all kinds of interesting possibilities regarding this dragon baby. =)

The fact that Flemeth shape-shifts into a high dragon? Ooooo, very intriguing! Morrigan tells you that in order to learn shape-shifting, you have to study the animal you want to shift into. You learn to move as it does, think as it does. Sooooo, wonder where Flemeth had a chance to study a high dragon? Can we say, "dragon cult"? I knew that we could! *muahahahaaaa*

If one pays attention to EVERY codex entry, then one will also know that the Old Gods in the ancient Tevinter Imperium appeared to the Magisters as dragons, hence the willingness to worship high dragons after having been betrayed by the Old Gods, who looked remarkably similiar.