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Awakening comfirmed to be 12-15 hours long... 20 for completests


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#176
JKJEDIKNIGHT

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Yrkoon wrote...

This is simply untrue.

First off, since I asked this question  earlier  and got no response, I'll ask it again:   When determining how long their playthrough was, are people guessing?  or are they actually looking at the recorded timestamp that appears on the "heroic accomplishments" screen?  Because if they're doing the former, then they're probably way off.

Second, who said anything about tough fights?  Tough fights don't account for an extra 40+ hours of game play.  Neither does admiring the scenery or the so-called "learning curve". (I had none.  the game's controls are ridiculously easy  and intuitive)    Instead, Scouring the game for clickable things does.  Traversing every inch of every avaliable map does.     Doing everything there is to do on every map does. Sitting through whole  cutscenes and dialogues without hitting the escape button does.  Visiting every merchant in the game and studying his inventory, meticulously comparing  the items he's selling to what your party is equipped with does.

Going back and forth on the world map so as to trigger every random encounter does.  Asking Lelianna to tell you her stories does.  Exhausting Shale's dialogue trees does.  Doing all your party member's  personal quests does.  Going back to camp and switching out your weapon runes, and your party members' weapon runes  does.  Deliberately and willfully disarming every trap and unlocking every chest does.

I challenge ANYONE who claims they did all the subquests and managed  to  beat this game in  just 25 hours to PROVE it.  Show us a screenshot of  the timestamp after you defeat the archdemon.

Here.  Let me show you how its done: 

Image IPB

^this is from my First playthough.  (click on it to get it full screen so you can read it)  As you can see,  the very last line is the time it took me to complete the game:  92 hours.  You'll also notice my character's level, and the fact that he defeated the archdemon, and that he explored 94% of the world.

Again, lets see a screenshot from  someone who claims they  "did everything" and still beat this game in 25-30 hours.  My guess is, they're all full of BS.




Okay.  First I didn't say I completed everything in 25 hours.  I said my "completionist" run through ran just under 50 hours, and my very first play through ran 31.  And that my very first had approximately 4 quests I did not complete.  I did not explore 100% of the world in my initial playthrough obviously, nor did I claim to.  My completionist game does have 100% world completed, and I have done every quest whether it be plot or side related I did it.  Did I go and speak to EVERY NPC in the game?  No, and why would I?  If someone truly feels the need to speak to every single person in the game, no matter how insignificant, that's their perrogative.  Obviously you have way more time to spend on just 1 game than I, and most sane person I would say.  Are there short cuts to doing things?  Sure.  Try reading the dialogue instead of listening to it.  I see no reason in hearing the same information more than once, add to it I usually play DA:O while my wife is sleeping and I keep the sound off.  Did I skip cut scenes?  Sure, why wouldn't I?  When my purpose was to do quest solving and adventuring, I did not feel the need to see the cut scenes for a 5th or 6th time.  And I did visit all the vendors as you claim and I do choose my weapons as I see fit, likewise as equiping Runes to the weapons.  I unlocked every chest I was able to unlock considering there are some in Eamon's estate in Den which if you are not a Rogue you cannot access.  My class of choice is Warrior.  As to your screen shot, I've stated previously, I play this on 360.   So your screen shot idea won't work unless I take a picture then scan it or something equally tedious.  I've never said that I did not see where people could spend say 50-70 hours on their FIRST playthrough considering most people choose to explore a vast majority their first time, plus it's new and you don't really know what you're doing.  But to take so long over and over.  It's just ridiculous.  When you do something, whether it's video games, or say doing work at your job.  If you do it several times over, it's supposed to be easier and/or faster the next time etc.

#177
Andwing

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le_cygne wrote...
Just out of curiosity, can you (or anyone) point me in the direction of this conference call/transcript/source? I'd be interested to hear it, out of pure curiosity.

And, as an aside, count me as another very experienced CRPG player who spent over 100 hours on my first play through without any particular difficulties moving forward in combat or elsewhere. Some of us just enjoy speaking to all of the NPCs in extreme depth, reading all the codices, exploring every niche of every map, and so forth.


You can find offical statements, such as press releases, call transcripts and earnings reports right on EA.  Just start looking from 2007 onwards, DA is there, and much like the little subsidiary I work for, is often little more than a line on the earnings report.

Caveat emptour, but the basic jist was that EA seemed send signals it thought DA was a risky franchise, practically dismising the PC crowd.  I do believe that Riccitiello was quoted as saying something like, Dragon age is not a risk.  Then saying, Dragon Age is not a sure thing.  For certain, DA was the red-headed step child of ME, SWTOR:Online and their other non Bio fancises.  Currently, it's the golden goose.  I don't know if that's a good thing or a not.

Modifié par Andwing, 02 mars 2010 - 12:54 .


#178
Yrkoon

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JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...


Okay.  First I didn't say I completed everything in 25 hours.  I said my "completionist" run through ran just under 50 hours, and my very first play through ran 31.  And that my very first had approximately 4 quests I did not complete.  I did not explore 100% of the world in my initial playthrough obviously, nor did I claim to.  My completionist game does have 100% world completed, and I have done every quest whether it be plot or side related I did it.  Did I go and speak to EVERY NPC in the game?  No, and why would I?  If someone truly feels the need to speak to every single person in the game, no matter how insignificant, that's their perrogative.  Obviously you have way more time to spend on just 1 game than I, and most sane person I would say.  Are there short cuts to doing things?  Sure.  Try reading the dialogue instead of listening to it.  I see no reason in hearing the same information more than once, add to it I usually play DA:O while my wife is sleeping and I keep the sound off.  Did I skip cut scenes?  Sure, why wouldn't I?  When my purpose was to do quest solving and adventuring, I did not feel the need to see the cut scenes for a 5th or 6th time.  And I did visit all the vendors as you claim and I do choose my weapons as I see fit, likewise as equiping Runes to the weapons.  I unlocked every chest I was able to unlock considering there are some in Eamon's estate in Den which if you are not a Rogue you cannot access.  My class of choice is Warrior.  As to your screen shot, I've stated previously, I play this on 360.   So your screen shot idea won't work unless I take a picture then scan it or something equally tedious.  I've never said that I did not see where people could spend say 50-70 hours on their FIRST playthrough considering most people choose to explore a vast majority their first time, plus it's new and you don't really know what you're doing.  But to take so long over and over.  It's just ridiculous.  When you do something, whether it's video games, or say doing work at your job.  If you do it several times over, it's supposed to be easier and/or faster the next time etc.

That's great.  But I  neither asked for an opinion,  nor another  "here's what I did, please believe me!" claim.

I asked for visual proof, like what I produced.  If you can't show any for "technical reasons", then fine.  But the  ONLY factual claim you can make at this point  is that "playing on 360 with the sound muted  makes the game  go faster".  Logically, and rationally, one cannot reach any other conclusion from  what you're saying here.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 mars 2010 - 01:23 .


#179
Bullets McDeath

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Couldn't help but notice he doesn't have a single achievement listed, either. I have a character who's finished the game that hasn't updated on the site since Level 9, but Achievements are practically the one thing that always upload.

#180
JKJEDIKNIGHT

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So you want lame excuses as to why I "can't produce" evidence? I already gave it if that's what you wanted. I said I play it on a 360, so a simple screen shot, isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. Then if I produced one, I would probably be subject to 9 million claims that my picture has been photoshopped in some way to produce the desired results. So providing some ground breaking and ever proving image evidence is going to get us no further than my word. As to outlaw's comment. I don't play DA:O while logged online because quite simply, why should I? I don't play anything online, and the only 2 times I have ever even put my 360 online were when I downloaded my Stone Prisoner/Warden's Keep, and then RtO. My account here is in no way linked to my XBLive account.

#181
Bullets McDeath

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Well considering the game has built-in design considerations for being able back up claims like yours, it does deflate most of your argument. I understand what you're saying that it would be tedious and probably accused of forgery to bother taking a picture, but that in tandem with a profile that shows no characters and no achievements... well, it reduces you to "guy on the internet claiming he does stuff better than you".



So, with all due respect, since you can't prove a lick of what you'd say, I'd advise you to just drop it. If it is true, then at least you will know that. In the end, who the **** cares how long people spend playing a game? Having time to call people losers/dumb/insane/inept for spending so much time on a video game... well, I'll let you sort the rest of that thought out.

#182
JKJEDIKNIGHT

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I don't recall calling anyone names, what I did was marvel at how long it has taken people to play this game in comparison to myself. It was an observation, followed by questions of how people did it. I figured that perhaps there was something I was missing that people could enlighten me on so that I could further enjoy the game for the hours that others have. Instead I've been called out as a liar and a fraud.

#183
Bullets McDeath

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Oh, don't victimize too fast there JK. Your posts made it quite clear you thought anyone who took more than 50 hours either sucked at the game or was retarded. I could quote your own posts back to you but I'll let you re-read them and see what I mean.



I didn't call you anything, but surely you can understand why, given the derogatory nature of your postings and claiming to have done the whole game faster than practically anyone... why people might be a LITTLE suspicious that you have no proof... in a game where they built in ways to prove exactly what you're claiming to have done?

#184
JKJEDIKNIGHT

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I don't feel my comments were mean in any way. They were asking how people did it, with a joking comment of "am I that good" sort of thing. And the built in "proving" methods you have described can be altered as well. And if I recall properly, others have been on here and have claimed to have done it faster than I. Yet I don't see them being called out. Want more victimization comments? lol. Apparently we've reached a day in technology, where if you don't play the game online and show off your achievements then you haven't done any of them. Am I next to be called out that I haven't romanced Morrigan yet because none of you can see my game achievements on here? Give me a break.

#185
BanksHector

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Liar!!! Prove you romanced Morrigan!

#186
kakotan

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Yeah after hearing this and the whole mess with RTO and the disapointment with that. I lost all anticipation for this xpack. If I want to play it ill probally pick it up 6 months from now. 15-20 hours for 40.00 meh, I can wait till its cheaper or never get it. I feel just jilted on DAO and the mess with RTO didnt help none., I played RTO content with my new dwarf i made and I have never gone back to the game. oh well , :mellow:

#187
RangerSG

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le_cygne wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Sorry about that, I'll clarify some...yeah they considered it a hit from when the sale returns started coming in. But (and this was on a thread in the old forums), last year the EA CEO essentially called DA:O a "niche game" to the shareholders and that they had little commercial expectation for it. That since Bioware was almost finished with production, it would be green-lit, but they looked to other products from the "Bioware Division" to make profit (specifically, the Star Wars MMO, I would guess).

There was no real expectation of serious profit from the EA marketing side for an old-school single player fantasy RPG. It was more or less written off as saying, "Look, this is their passion. It's what they do. Let them finish it."

Then it becomes a hit, and here comes the suits.


Just out of curiosity, can you (or anyone) point me in the direction of this conference call/transcript/source? I'd be interested to hear it, out of pure curiosity.

And, as an aside, count me as another very experienced CRPG player who spent over 100 hours on my first play through without any particular difficulties moving forward in combat or elsewhere. Some of us just enjoy speaking to all of the NPCs in extreme depth, reading all the codices, exploring every niche of every map, and so forth.


The original was on a thread in the old forum. It was a released statement from a shareholder meeting by EA's CEO.

Here was the actual statement which was meant to 'mollify' concerned shareholders about why DA was going ahead as a single-player RPG. http://www.strategyi...-wont-be-a-risk

And yes, as an aside, as I've noted. I played 123.6 hours on the first playthrough (verified by time-stamp). And I did not have any serious issue with combat or "learning curve" with the game. Those ASSUMPTIONS were dropped in by people who assume that their one playing style must fit all. Simply put, they do what people always do when they ASSUME. I have not had a single playthrough LESS than 70 hours yet.

Modifié par RangerSG, 02 mars 2010 - 05:39 .


#188
Myusha

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I was Awakenings was cheaper by ten bucks. But oh well, I'll enjoy saving the world. Again.

#189
lewgiffard

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Excalibur6 wrote...

I read in the pc gamer Preview. i dont know if thats the main quest or everything included how ever...
Not very long considering the price, compared to the orginal... oh well

And its actualy answered with a Q&A with Fernado Melo.. so from the horse mouth if you will.

Well if we're basing this from preview artcles:
"In terms of length, the team can't really put a number on it. People
have spent anywhere from "20 hours to 300 hours" in Origins, as
the Dragon Age team put it, and Awakening should offer
about the same."
Destrutoid preview. Ya boo sucks to yer 15 hours!

#190
Houndiddy

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How much hard drive space does Awakening take up? Sorry if this has been answered already, but there is not much use in my reading through all this if I have to wait until I get a bigger hard drive to get this expansion.

#191
Yrkoon

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JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...
because quite simply, why should I?

You love asking that question, don't you.

Let me answer it:  Because doing so would go a long way towards your credibility, since you seem to  like Bagging about your accomplishments and denigrating others for not achieving your pinnacle level of speedplay..  That's why.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 mars 2010 - 06:49 .


#192
JKJEDIKNIGHT

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Any "proof" I offered would then be dragged through the mud as being uncredible in some way/shape/form. Maybe I'll just call someone up from Guiness and see if they will verify my achievements for you. Would that suffice? Or did I pay the person off? I never came on here and bragged. If I had, I would have said "you people suck, I beat this game in 14 minutes, you guys suck". I asked where/how people were spending their time to get so much play time out of this game. I am trying to enhance and lengthen my experience in this game, and all you can do is attack me for doing it so fast. I'm sorry I do things differently? Not sure what you want here. If I have shown any concern in this, or voiced any negativity, it is simply that I myself am not going to put down 40 for a game that "may" provide 15-20 hours to this game. When I have no idea if that time is related to my play style, or someone elses who somehow found 500 hours in this game. Have you ever looked into what is called speed gaming? Or visited the world records of video games? I've placed in them before. Is this good enough bragging for you? I can beat Super Mario Bros in under 10 minutes. Is that good enough? Blah.

#193
Diogo Gomez

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Actually I remember reading in a preview somewhere it was about 30 hoursplay just like Origins. but I don't now for sure.

#194
Yrkoon

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JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

Any "proof" I offered would then be dragged through the mud as being uncredible in some way/shape/form..

You  know this is a BS excuse.  And untrue.

No one has  questioned *my* screenshot.  And I doubt anyone will question yours when you post it.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 mars 2010 - 12:24 .


#195
Duck and Cover

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didn't XP's used to be priced at $30? What's with this $40 crap? Way too much. I'll pick it up if it's on sale for $30 somewhere though. Consumers need to sand up, or these companies will continue to raise prices. They all know we are a bunch of addicts, and probably charge what they want. So it's up to us to restrain our addictions and take a stand.

#196
Bryy_Miller

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lewgiffard wrote...

Excalibur6 wrote...

I read in the pc gamer Preview. i dont know if thats the main quest or everything included how ever...
Not very long considering the price, compared to the orginal... oh well

And its actualy answered with a Q&A with Fernado Melo.. so from the horse mouth if you will.

Well if we're basing this from preview artcles:
"In terms of length, the team can't really put a number on it. People
have spent anywhere from "20 hours to 300 hours" in Origins, as
the Dragon Age team put it, and Awakening should offer
about the same."
Destrutoid preview. Ya boo sucks to yer 15 hours!


"Also, there's no sex in Awakening. Deal with it"

Thus, BioWare lost 95% of their audience. :)

#197
WildcardOne

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JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

Okay.  First I didn't say I completed everything in 25 hours.  I said my "completionist" run through ran just under 50 hours, and my very first play through ran 31.  And that my very first had approximately 4 quests I did not complete.  I did not explore 100% of the world in my initial playthrough obviously, nor did I claim to.  My completionist game does have 100% world completed, and I have done every quest whether it be plot or side related I did it.  Did I go and speak to EVERY NPC in the game?  No, and why would I?  If someone truly feels the need to speak to every single person in the game, no matter how insignificant, that's their perrogative.  Obviously you have way more time to spend on just 1 game than I, and most sane person I would say.  Are there short cuts to doing things?  Sure.  Try reading the dialogue instead of listening to it.  I see no reason in hearing the same information more than once, add to it I usually play DA:O while my wife is sleeping and I keep the sound off.  Did I skip cut scenes?  Sure, why wouldn't I?  When my purpose was to do quest solving and adventuring, I did not feel the need to see the cut scenes for a 5th or 6th time.  And I did visit all the vendors as you claim and I do choose my weapons as I see fit, likewise as equiping Runes to the weapons.  I unlocked every chest I was able to unlock considering there are some in Eamon's estate in Den which if you are not a Rogue you cannot access.  My class of choice is Warrior.  As to your screen shot, I've stated previously, I play this on 360.   So your screen shot idea won't work unless I take a picture then scan it or something equally tedious.  I've never said that I did not see where people could spend say 50-70 hours on their FIRST playthrough considering most people choose to explore a vast majority their first time, plus it's new and you don't really know what you're doing.  But to take so long over and over.  It's just ridiculous.  When you do something, whether it's video games, or say doing work at your job.  If you do it several times over, it's supposed to be easier and/or faster the next time etc.


Thanks for posting this. I too, can't grasp why some people are in disbelief that a competionist run can take under 45-50 hours. On the other hand, I can't grasp how someone has a 93 hour playtime without massive idling...seriously, even if they talk to everyone in the game and do everything, I just don't see how that doubles the playtime I spent on the game.

On topic though, I think nobody will be satisfied with Awakening's length just because Dragon Age is such a good game and we all can't get enough. :) As long as there's no code key preventing resale of Awakening, I won't be too disappointed with the price tag.

Modifié par WildcardOne, 03 mars 2010 - 02:13 .


#198
RangerSG

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WildcardOne wrote...

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

Okay.  First I didn't say I completed everything in 25 hours.  I said my "completionist" run through ran just under 50 hours, and my very first play through ran 31.  And that my very first had approximately 4 quests I did not complete.  I did not explore 100% of the world in my initial playthrough obviously, nor did I claim to.  My completionist game does have 100% world completed, and I have done every quest whether it be plot or side related I did it.  Did I go and speak to EVERY NPC in the game?  No, and why would I?  If someone truly feels the need to speak to every single person in the game, no matter how insignificant, that's their perrogative.  Obviously you have way more time to spend on just 1 game than I, and most sane person I would say.  Are there short cuts to doing things?  Sure.  Try reading the dialogue instead of listening to it.  I see no reason in hearing the same information more than once, add to it I usually play DA:O while my wife is sleeping and I keep the sound off.  Did I skip cut scenes?  Sure, why wouldn't I?  When my purpose was to do quest solving and adventuring, I did not feel the need to see the cut scenes for a 5th or 6th time.  And I did visit all the vendors as you claim and I do choose my weapons as I see fit, likewise as equiping Runes to the weapons.  I unlocked every chest I was able to unlock considering there are some in Eamon's estate in Den which if you are not a Rogue you cannot access.  My class of choice is Warrior.  As to your screen shot, I've stated previously, I play this on 360.   So your screen shot idea won't work unless I take a picture then scan it or something equally tedious.  I've never said that I did not see where people could spend say 50-70 hours on their FIRST playthrough considering most people choose to explore a vast majority their first time, plus it's new and you don't really know what you're doing.  But to take so long over and over.  It's just ridiculous.  When you do something, whether it's video games, or say doing work at your job.  If you do it several times over, it's supposed to be easier and/or faster the next time etc.


Thanks for posting this. I too, can't grasp why some people are in disbelief that a competionist run can take under 45-50 hours. On the other hand, I can't grasp how someone has a 93 hour playtime without massive idling...seriously, even if they talk to everyone in the game and do everything, I just don't see how that doubles the playtime I spent on the game.


*sighs* No one had attacked the amount of time *he* spent playing. They pointed out his assumption that anyone who took longer than him to play it didn't know anything about RPGs was rubbish.

The only people on this thread who are making assumptions about how other people play the game are the people (like you did) who assume that anyone who takes longer than them must be "idling" or "bad at combat."

Sorry, no that's rubbish. 123.6, I won't say I 'never' hit the pause button to deal with RL. But I'm an adult with a wife and a real world job. I have better things to do than run the time up on a GAME.

I won't assume you cheated yourself out of a more meaningful experience with the game if you won't assume you know how those who took longer than you were "wasting time." Fair enough? Different people play games--especially RPGs-- different ways. Stop assuming you know what other people do. It really ought not be a hard thing to do to assume you can guess people's actions and motives from the other side of a monitor.

#199
le_cygne

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RangerSG wrote...

The only people on this thread who are making assumptions about how other people play the game are the people (like you did) who assume that anyone who takes longer than them must be "idling" or "bad at combat."

Sorry, no that's rubbish. 123.6, I won't say I 'never' hit the pause button to deal with RL. But I'm an adult with a wife and a real world job. I have better things to do than run the time up on a GAME.

I won't assume you cheated yourself out of a more meaningful experience with the game if you won't assume you know how those who took longer than you were "wasting time." Fair enough? Different people play games--especially RPGs-- different ways. Stop assuming you know what other people do. It really ought not be a hard thing to do to assume you can guess people's actions and motives from the other side of a monitor.


Thank you. Well said.

As someone else with a busy personal and professional life who enjoys taking time to play the game (yes, with an occasional pause), I was too miffed at the bickering to address this (including the "ZOMG proovez you did it so fastz!" posts), but I'm glad you took the time.

If people get satisfaction from making decisions quickly and plowing through enemies, that's their prerogative, and I respect it. But I'd rather enjoy in-depth conversation options that vary on different play throughs. I'd rather enjoy a well-written setting and its lore. Slaughtering darkspawn on Nightmare is fun, but decidedly secondary to my enjoyment: if I want to kill stuff, I'll play Half-Life or Gears of War. If I want to do it strategically, I'll play StarCraft. It's the height of presumption to assume that the players on these forums who explore the game in the most time and depth are the least experienced, particularly when many (most?) of us cut our teeth on CRPG classics from  originals like Ultima to story-driven masterpieces like Torment.

Sure, it's silly, pointless, and perhaps even rude to ask someone to prove his playtime. Who cares? Why would I doubt you?  Even if you were lying, why would I care? But--regardless of how you prefer to play personally--if you don't understand how someone could spend more than ~40 hours playing a game like Dragon Age, I daresay you're missing the point entirely. And when you judge others on that misconception and assume that they're playing poorly or "wrong," you're going to come off as ignorant at best, and possibly as a jerk, too.

(Thanks, too, Ranger, for the shareholder references earlier. Interesting reading for me as a trader who doesn't usually play the gaming sector, though sad, if expected, as an RPG fan. :unsure: )

Modifié par le_cygne, 03 mars 2010 - 07:00 .


#200
Yrkoon

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WildcardOne wrote...

Thanks for posting this. I too, can't grasp why some people are in disbelief that a competionist run can take under 45-50 hours. On the other hand, I can't grasp how someone has a 93 hour playtime without massive idling...seriously, even if they talk to everyone in the game and do everything, I just don't see how that doubles the playtime I spent on the game.

On topic though, I think nobody will be satisfied with Awakening's length just because Dragon Age is such a good game and we all can't get enough. :) As long as there's no code key preventing resale of Awakening, I won't be too disappointed with the price tag.

OK, lets make one thing clear.   I, personally, would never, ever, claim that  a completist run of DA:O in under 45-50 hours Can't be done..  Of course it can be done.     In looking through my old  save games,  I apparently managed to do  my  3rd playthrough in 44:10:30.    (And I'm quite impressed with myself actually.  I didn't think I had the sprinter-instinct in me.  lol)  But then again, that was my third playthough.  I knew every map  like the back of my hand.  I knew  who to talk to, where to go.  I knew which merchant sold what, I knew how to trigger the game sequences and stuff like that.


No, what got my attention  on this thread   were the  claims that a first playthough, completist or not, could be done in 25-30 hours.  That's one of those extrordinary claims that begs for some standard proof, otherwise, the deducer in me starts thinking that maybe these people discovered the  "god-mode" console  code and just plowed through every dungeon and didn't bother taking the time to do the 'mundane' things... like collect loot, acquire codex entries... talk to companions  (and talk to companions long enough to get their personal quests), visit merchants... or even  customize their characters at creation  (you know, I actually took a good HALF  AN HOUR   to get my character's facial features exactly how I wanted  them on the character creation screen in my first playthrough)

  I just don't believe that  this game can be done in 25 hours the first time.  Why would anyone buy a  $50 RPG,  install it...all 20 GIGS of it, then sit down and say:  Ok, on your marks... get set... GO... lets see how fast I can get to the end!


  Edit: Incidently, this discussion we're having Is relevant, and does matter, since no doubt there's going to be people complaining about Awakenings "length" however long it ends up being.  It'll be interesting to know whether the complainers happen to be the same people who beat Origins in 25 hours.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 mars 2010 - 07:44 .