102 réponses à ce sujet

[guise709]

If any of these people die it can happen towards the end of the game or after you beat it.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

Shadow_Puppet wrote...

Well he has 8-12 left months to live an judging by the final cutscene I would assume that it is not going to take that long for the reapers to show up, I think ME3 will take place a few months after ME2, so it is likely Thane will still be alive.

While I don't think the time period between 2 and 3 will be as long as the one between 1 and 2, I think saying it will be a few months is pushing it. 

You can see the entire galaxy in a panoramic view. I would guess that mean they are pretty far away. 

Modifié par Fat Headed Wolf, 24 février 2010 - 08:47 .

[IccaRa]

Thane's illness does not define him. How he has dealt with his past and how he deals with his present is what defines him.

His illness is only a brush stroke on the canvas of his character, not the canvas itself.

It's like saying Shepard is defined by his/her Lazarus augmentation. No, he/she is not. It happened, it's there, it's present, Shepard can react to it, but it is not Shepard. And Shepard continues on his/her way with or without it.

So it is with Thane. His illness only brought him perspective, and perspective is not something you magically lose.

I think some people (some) merely want Thane to die because it feels "mature" to them and they want to posture as being a mature player who sees death as Ain'T Nothing But A Thang, but the reality of it is that there can be an alternative with even more emotional investment if you choose to pursue it. Likewise people who want to see Thane again are not about magical cures and puppydog rainbows -- they (I) would like to continue Thane's narrative with our Shepards because it is a poignant one.

We are not asking for a cure to be magicked by space wizards out of nowhere. We want to earn it. Everyone will die some day -- we just want to get the most of the tale that we can before that happens, just as much as any of the other romances.

That is not so strange a thing.

Edit: And by "cure" I don't mean "all-out yay everything fixed" cure; I'd be happy with treatments extending life expectancy a bit.

Modifié par IccaRa, 24 février 2010 - 08:53 .

[Deztyn]

There's no cure for Thane's disease and I don't want one. But the game does mention advanced treatments, and it never says that Thane has had them. He was resigned to his death until Femshep romanced him. Is that because he's exhausted all treatment options? Or because of simple fatalism combined with his lingering grief and detachment? I think we could make a case for the latter and plausibly extend his life a few years.

It doesn't have to be a choice between finding a cure or dying between/during the games. Just give him better and more advanced treatments and let the Thane romancers have a bittersweet semi-happy ending.

[Valilith]

Point is... There are so many LI that can die in ME2 that I don't know how they are going to handle that in ME3 anyway (illness or not). From ME1 to ME2, Ashley and Kaidan are only parallel character, that you can't recruit. Bioware had "only" to develop twice the dialog in Horizon (and for the introduction...) but the mean storyline was the same, either you meet Ashley or Kaidan.

They might develop full story for each ME2 LI in ME3, but the managing the "branch stories" can be a nightmare regarding the amount of possible configuration regarding the end of ME2.

So, dying or not, I'm not sure ME2 LI will have huge impact on ME3 - no more than ME1 LI in ME2 - (I might be also pessimistic in fact ^^).

[Fat Headed Wolf]

IccaRa wrote...

Thane's illness does not define him. How he has dealt with his past and how he deals with his present is what defines him.

His illness is only a brush stroke on the canvas of his character, not the canvas itself.

It's like saying Shepard is defined by his/her Lazarus augmentation. No, he/she is not. It happened, it's there, it's present, Shepard can react to it, but it is not Shepard. And Shepard continues on his/her way with or without it.

So it is with Thane. His illness only brought him perspective, and perspective is not something you magically lose.

I think some people (some) merely want Thane to die because it feels "mature" to them and they want to posture as being a mature player who sees death as Ain'T Nothing But A Thang, but the reality of it is that there can be an alternative with even more emotional investment if you choose to pursue it. Likewise people who want to see Thane again are not about magical cures and puppydog rainbows -- they (I) would like to continue Thane's narrative with our Shepards because it is a poignant one.

We are not asking for a cure to be magicked by space wizards out of nowhere. We want to earn it. Everyone will die some day -- we just want to get the most of the tale that we can before that happens, just as much as any of the other romances.

That is not so strange a thing.

Edit: And by "cure" I don't mean "all-out yay everything fixed" cure; I'd be happy with treatments extending life expectancy a bit.

That's respectable, I suppose. But, I suppose this topic is irrelevant until we know exactly how long after 2 ME 3 takes place. If it is five months or so, he could still be alive, and you can get that ending you  want before he either dies or is cured.

On the other hand, if it takes place a year later, he is probably on his death bed.

Either way, I can't see him dying in between games. That would the zenith of lame.  

[tg1413]

I loved Thane and presuming he survives to ME3 I think it would be a very poignant scene to see his death. Not a death like in ME2 where he is killed in battle or because of a Collector Ship, a death where he dies gracefully from Kepral's Syndrome. That, for me, would be a very "emotionally engaging" scene. I'm on my insanity playthrough now, but also I'm trying to do every conversation and quest, and after him telling me he wanted to die, I almost felt like I would try and let him die in the suicide mission later on. But, as it is also my "everyone survives" playthrough, I didn't want him to be killed, and I now figure it would be better for him to die a natural death.

[IccaRa]

I don't understand where some people get the "Thane wants to die" thing from. He doesn't want to die, he's merely accepted his death. He's resigned. It's the situation from Dantius Towers all over again: he said he wasn't planning to die, but that it would have happened (had Shepard not stepped in) and he had accepted that. It's not something he's actively pursuing.



"I will not let my body pass before its time."



Said people also seem to forget that he has unfinished business with Kolyat, and if you're a FemShep who has romanced him, it becomes abundantly clear that he is not at all thrilled with the idea of leaving or losing any time soon.

[Druss99]

Fat Headed Wolf wrote...

IccaRa wrote...

Thane's illness does not define him. How he has dealt with his past and how he deals with his present is what defines him.

His illness is only a brush stroke on the canvas of his character, not the canvas itself.

It's like saying Shepard is defined by his/her Lazarus augmentation. No, he/she is not. It happened, it's there, it's present, Shepard can react to it, but it is not Shepard. And Shepard continues on his/her way with or without it.

So it is with Thane. His illness only brought him perspective, and perspective is not something you magically lose.

I think some people (some) merely want Thane to die because it feels "mature" to them and they want to posture as being a mature player who sees death as Ain'T Nothing But A Thang, but the reality of it is that there can be an alternative with even more emotional investment if you choose to pursue it. Likewise people who want to see Thane again are not about magical cures and puppydog rainbows -- they (I) would like to continue Thane's narrative with our Shepards because it is a poignant one.

We are not asking for a cure to be magicked by space wizards out of nowhere. We want to earn it. Everyone will die some day -- we just want to get the most of the tale that we can before that happens, just as much as any of the other romances.

That is not so strange a thing.

Edit: And by "cure" I don't mean "all-out yay everything fixed" cure; I'd be happy with treatments extending life expectancy a bit.

That's respectable, I suppose. But, I suppose this topic is irrelevant until we know exactly how long after 2 ME 3 takes place. If it is five months or so, he could still be alive, and you can get that ending you  want before he either dies or is cured.

On the other hand, if it takes place a year later, he is probably on his death bed.

Either way, I can't see him dying in between games. That would the zenith of lame.  

Yeah having him die between games would indeed be ultra lame. But you have to have faith that bioware wouldnt go to the bother of creating the character and setting him up with this situation if they didnt have a big plan for it.

Likewise people saying Thane shouldnt die just because we romanced him, whos to say the other LI's will survive? By the end of the game Shepard could be the only one standing.

[Franky2toes]

Have him die in ME3 or have him in a hospital close to death. Anything else would be cheesy. Either way though people are gonna be annoyed how they go about this. If he gets a cure people will be mad that they didnt stick with what they began and letting him live because of the fans. And if he dies people who romanced him will feel cheated...I guess not sure why but saw someone say something like that.

Im not looking forward to seeing hundreds of threads about this during ME3.

[Druss99]

IccaRa wrote...

I don't understand where some people get the "Thane wants to die" thing from. He doesn't want to die, he's merely accepted his death. He's resigned. It's the situation from Dantius Towers all over again: he said he wasn't planning to die, but that it would have happened (had Shepard not stepped in) and he had accepted that. It's not something he's actively pursuing.

"I will not let my body pass before its time."

Said people also seem to forget that he has unfinished business with Kolyat, and if you're a FemShep who has romanced him, it becomes abundantly clear that he is not at all thrilled with the idea of leaving or losing any time soon.

Is there actually much extra dialogue with him if you romance him?

I play as male shep and have run out of dialogue with him. It seems to just end with him being in the situation he is dying, he knows it, has given up killing and is trying to reconnect with his son before his time is up.

[Shadow_Puppet]

There's fair bit more dialogue if you romance him he also tells Femshep that he is now afraid of dying, presumably because of their relationship and the fact that he now feels he has something to live for.

Whereas with a maleshep he just accepts the fact that he's dying.

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 24 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[kaimanaMM]

Fat Headed Wolf :



First, I did come across as angry and I want to apologize to you, I'm sorry, I should not have lashed out like that.



You have to understand, to some of us this constant refrain of Thane Needs To Die In ME3 For Him / The Story To Be Meaningful is getting just a little old and repeatative. If BW did not want us to romance Thane and have a possibility at a happy ending, assuming there even is one at the end of ME3, then why give him an illness to which there is no cure? So those of us who chose to romance him have a more 'emotionally engaging' gameplay experience than everyone else who didn't? While we may not be a large or particularly vocal faction, we are no less attached to Thane than the Talimancers are to Tali or the Garruslovers are to Garrus, etc.



Thane should die someday, I don't believe he should be immortal nor do I think he should be magically cured. There should be consequences surrounding a cure or the ability to prolong his life. I have yet to see a thread anywhere here or in any of the Thane groups where someone wants Thane to just hop up fit as a fiddle and ready to roll. We're all for choice, but that's the crux of the issue. Choice. In a story driven by choice and consequence to take that ability out of the player's hands makes little to no sense.

His illness only brought him perspective, and perspective is not something you magically lose.

IccaRa always says better than me what I try to say.

[Druss99]

Shadow_Puppet wrote...

There's fair bit more dialogue if you romance him he also tells Femshep that he is now afraid of dying, presumably because of their relationship and the fact that he now feels he has something to live for.

Whereas with a maleshep he just accepts the fact that he's dying.

Ah I didnt think he would say much more, even for male sheps he had plenty to say and you could get several conversations from him. Complete opposite of Garrus who if you dont want to get it on with him he basically barely speaks to you.

BTW good to see more Irish people on here. We will slowly take over .

[Fat Headed Wolf]

kaimanaMM wrote...

Fat Headed Wolf :

First, I did come across as angry and I want to apologize to you, I'm sorry, I should not have lashed out like that.

You have to understand, to some of us this constant refrain of Thane Needs To Die In ME3 For Him / The Story To Be Meaningful is getting just a little old and repeatative. If BW did not want us to romance Thane and have a possibility at a happy ending, assuming there even is one at the end of ME3, then why give him an illness to which there is no cure? So those of us who chose to romance him have a more 'emotionally engaging' gameplay experience than everyone else who didn't? While we may not be a large or particularly vocal faction, we are no less attached to Thane than the Talimancers are to Tali or the Garruslovers are to Garrus, etc.

Thane should die someday, I don't believe he should be immortal nor do I think he should be magically cured. There should be consequences surrounding a cure or the ability to prolong his life. I have yet to see a thread anywhere here or in any of the Thane groups where someone wants Thane to just hop up fit as a fiddle and ready to roll. We're all for choice, but that's the crux of the issue. Choice. In a story driven by choice and consequence to take that ability out of the player's hands makes little to no sense.

His illness only brought him perspective, and perspective is not something you magically lose.

IccaRa always says better than me what I try to say.

No problem about being angry. I figured that I either read your emotions wrong or that you were letting off a little steam; no biggie there and no offense taken.  

And as for your other options about an optional cure and consequence there of; I find that respectable. At least you are not hoping for the situation to be whirled away as if it were never mentioned. As you put it, if he were to "just hop up fit as a fiddle and ready to roll", that would be less than ideal. 

In the end, while our opinions may be different, I think we both want the same thing....... An emotional engaging story for our Shepard........ We just feel differently on how to achieve that. 

[Internet Kraken]

EliteZev wrote...

Mordin is 50.

No. Seeing a salarian that lives past the age of 40 is a rarity. So 50 year old Salarians probably don't exist, and even if they do I doubt they would be as reliable in combat as Mordin.

[Shadow_Puppet]

This whole thing shouldn't really have got out of hand, but what everyone has got to realise is that there are two sides here, those who feel he should die from his illness and those who feel he should not.

The only solution to this is to include the OPTION of whether or not to cure/prolong his life somehow, otherwise one side is going lose out and in my opinion that is not very fair.

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 24 février 2010 - 09:36 .

[Delsch]

I want Thane to be alive through ME3 at least. In some ways the idea of him being cureable in ME3 all of the suddenly a bit weird, but I certainly wouldn't say no to it. If there'll be a cure, make it optional. Those who wants him dead, can ignore it. Those who want to cure him, can cure him and get their happy ending.

If the LIs are meant to all have a happy ending, then really, why should Thane/Femshep not be able to have it too.

Heck, a way to at least add a year or a few to his life, shouldn't be that bad.

IccaRa and kaimanaMM has already explained this a lot better than me and I'm with them.

Indeed, none wants a cure magically swooped in from somewhere, we just want the chance.

[Deztyn]

IccaRa wrote...

I don't understand where some people get the "Thane wants to die" thing from. He doesn't want to die, he's merely accepted his death. He's resigned. It's the situation from Dantius Towers all over again: he said he wasn't planning to die, but that it would have happened (had Shepard not stepped in) and he had accepted that. It's not something he's actively pursuing.

"I will not let my body pass before its time."

Said people also seem to forget that he has unfinished business with Kolyat, and if you're a FemShep who has romanced him, it becomes abundantly clear that he is not at all thrilled with the idea of leaving or losing any time soon.

I want to clarify. I wasn't suggesting that Thane wants to die, just that he's accepted it, and perhaps hasn't gone out of his way to get the most advanced treatments like total organ replacements and such. That seems to be inline with his character as I percieve it. We don't know how long he's had Kepral's syndrome or if his estimate of the time he has left includes every possible treatment option.

And let's not forget that he hasn't had much to do with Kolyat in ten years and chose to go on a suicide mission on Illium before attempting to reconnect with his son. So while he certainly has regrets and unfinished business it's not necessarily incompatible with the idea that he hasn't already sought every treatment possible for his disease.

Modifié par Deztyn, 24 février 2010 - 09:41 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

I kind of get the feeling that Thane and Jack are going to be the Morrigan of ME3. The relationship is doomed to end for some reason or another and there's just nothing you can do about it. I think they decided that they liked that angle from DA:O, despite the fact that most (or all?) of the Morrigan romancers thought it was terrible. Not saying I like the idea, just what I imagine happening.

I don't think Thane must die for literary integrity, however it would be weak if you end up curing him like, right at the beginning of the game with no problems. Of course, if you cure him near the end, then you have him sitting around the whole game talking about how he's going to die again (if he's a squaddie), so it's kind of a lose-lose... Unless you're a big fan of tragedy, which, I'm not (probably why I didn't enjoy the Thane romance too much).

I guess as far as I'm concerned, he doesn't have a lot going for him aside from the whole "I'M DYING!" thing, so the question is, if they don't recycle the dying plot or kill him in ME3, what is he going to do? Zevran already did the indebted assassin thing, and I'd be kind of irritated if they made all of his dialogues about his kid.

That said, I do think a hospital death scene would be just as cheesy as any other option, but I wouldn't begrudge them for putting it in for the sake of closure. I do think the 'optional' bit works the best for everyone. Even though it puts me in control of the result, which I don't really like since my Paragon would always save him regardless of what the best option story-wise is.

[Selor Kiith]

If he has to die while our play session... it should be at the beginning of ME3 with Shepard and the Team standing at his bed or something...

[jstne]

I'm torn on the Thane issue.



On one side, having him die would avoid any silly magic cures or something being brought into the plot. On the other side, Shepard was resurrected after already being dead so it's not like a cure/treatment for a disease would be too absurd in the story and killing Thane off would seem like a really easy way for Bioware to not have to pay for extra voice acting since he can die in ME2.



I would like/prefer it if his life was extended for a few years, somehow. Hell, I would be fine if he was no longer a squad member and he just spent the rest of his days chillin' in the med-bay giving out spiritual advice, with the option to continue a romance if you started one in ME2. Maybe Kolyat could replace him as a squad member.

[Gamer Xtreme]

Most of the characters have a "get out of mass effect 3 card"

[Druss99]

jstne wrote...

I'm torn on the Thane issue.

On one side, having him die would avoid any silly magic cures or something being brought into the plot. On the other side, Shepard was resurrected after already being dead so it's not like a cure/treatment for a disease would be too absurd in the story and killing Thane off would seem like a really easy way for Bioware to not have to pay for extra voice acting since he can die in ME2.

I would like/prefer it if his life was extended for a few years, somehow. Hell, I would be fine if he was no longer a squad member and he just spent the rest of his days chillin' in the med-bay giving out spiritual advice, with the option to continue a romance if you started one in ME2. Maybe Kolyat could replace him as a squad member.

I can see this scenario applying to a few members of the squad, just hanging around the normandy as npc's with extra dialogue. Unfortunately with Thane it would be extra annoying because he was damn useful in a fight, especially on insane mode. Having him just sit there would be gauling.

[Shadow_Puppet]

No one is saying a cure/method of prolonging his life should magically pop right out from beneath ground where Shepard is standing, rather if the option is there for there to be some sort of consequence for choosing it, hell for all we know it COULD be the renegade option and that could make for a good story, well that's what I think anyway.

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 24 février 2010 - 10:12 .